It's insulting to be told that your thoughts are not yours but come from some propaganda

[county worker]

you heard and that you don't have ability to think critically.

It's insulting to be told that because you feel betrayed that you hate the person who betrayed you.

It's insulting to be told that you don't have the right to leave the herd and go you own way.

It's insulting to be told that holding dear the values that you have held dear all your life is now asking for ponies.

Just what the hell are some of you afraid of? Are you afraid that if some of us want to leave the life boat and go swimming in a different direction that somehow that will cause your boat to sink?

Your life boat isn't taking you anywhere. Your just drifting what ever way the current wants to take you.

[Llewlladdwr]

1. Bravo! NT

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

83. PLUS FUCKING ONE!

Bravo!

[bighart]

2. K & Big Fat Hairy R

[Autumn]

3. Excellent

:yourock:

[librechik]

4. Maybe instead of taking umbrage, you could try to understand

in order to learn how to grow and compromise. Perhaps no one is insulting you, but rather throwing you a lifeline.

Instantaneous defensive squalling does not help anyone. And being toild you can't think critically might be a hint to improve, not an insult.

Don't know what you are referring to, but just a little life wisdom from an old person who gets yelled at a lot for going my own way. And following the current of your life is what life is all about.

[county worker]

7. It takes two to tango. Try living your own words. That's from a 65 yr old.

I'll stack my life's wisdom up against yours any day.

[tama]

11. Is "against"

the only wisdom you have gathered so far?

[Wait Wut]

27. 'I'll stack my life's wisdom up against yours any day."

...is insulting.

[SidDithers]

31. Is your age supposed to buy you some credibility?...nt

Sid

[russspeakeasy]

68. 75% ????

I think you forgot a decimal point.:evilgrin:

[Jakes Progress]

84. Here's an idea. Try reading the thread you're posting on.

It might keep you foot out of your mouth.

[ElboRuum]

51. And thus, it is proven...

:eyes:

[pasto76]

80. I'll stack my 35 years against yours. Today. And win.

[leeroysphitz]

81. Let me say THIS about THAT.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1870364

[Fumesucker]

21. Compromise is what has gotten us to this point..

And this is coming from a sixtysomething..

"Instantaneous defensive squalling" my bony white derriere, there are ongoing and nearly constant accusations that anyone who isn't a member in good standing of the Obama booster club is a troll, disruptor or worse.

And when someone whose own reasoning ability is suspect tells you to "think critically" then maybe it's time for you to ignore their rhetoric.

[RC]

36. I agree!

But a problem arises when they are not challenged on their missing facts or spun thinking, it further emboldens them and they go on to challenge others who think different than they. Your 'members in good standing' is a good case in point.
We really do need to start teaching critical thinking in grade school.

[bvar22]

30. In a "compromise", both sides get something.

Perpetual capitulation is what you are describing.

Can you cite an occasion where Obama has moved to "The Left" in a "compromise"?

or taken a step in THAT direction?

If your "lifeline" is a steady lurch to the Conservative RIGHT,
No Thanks.
You aren't going where I care to go.
I'll stick with the traditional Democratic Party Values of FDR & LBJ.

Thats the problem I have with the New Democrat Centrist Party.
They agree with Republicans too much.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[in_cog_ni_to]

82. That man would have been the BEST Preident this country could ever hope to have.

Paul Wellstone :loveya: I still miss him, after all these years. What a wonderful man.

[daleanime]

74. To check the fairness of your agruement....

always change your subject around.

"You can't think critically."



Now please tell me, do you feel that was a "hint to improve" or do you think you've just been insulted?:shrug:

[DocMac]

93. What of the Tea Party elders?

Do you think their years of living has opened their eyes??

You see, you can be a 90 year old fool...they exist. And changing their stripes may be the hardest thing since man made diamonds.

[DrDan]

5. K&R

[kctim]

6. Yes, it's hard being a moderate nowadays.

[ElboRuum]

52. This. +1000

[MilesColtrane]

8. Politics+Internet=Rough Stuff

[tama]

9. Who ownes thoughts?

How can thoughts be owned? 'Ownership' is quite strange thought... reeks of certain kind of solipsism. How can a solipsist owner get insulted?

[11 Bravo]

10. And it is equally insulting to be called a "sycophant", "kool-aid drinker", "blind" ...

or "apologist" if one voices one's support for the Democratic President of the United Sates on a website named (albeit euphemistically) "Democratic Underground".

[Emit]

13. You left out 'Third Way apologist'

:)

[MADem]

23. No shit!!! Right on!!!! nt

[Rex]

32. I would put emphasis on Underground more today then Democratic.

This IS the underground, where radical and sometimes completely silly notions are discussed with the seriousness and fervor of a pundit talking to a campaign manager!

[ZombieHorde]

41. "Both sides" have slung a lot of mud here on DU.

Grumpy, frustrated posts can overshadow more mellow posts.

[Rex]

12. Welcome to Democratic Underground!

:hi:

[Broderick]

14. Who told you to say this???

recommended by the way.

[county worker]

22. Some times I feel the urge to put what is on my mind out there .

I don't really care if some folks want to smack me down.

I was born during the Truman administration. Until the past two years I never expected to hear "you have to lower your expectations" being said to suffering Americans by a Democratic President.

[dgibby]

28. Not to mention,

"Eat your peas", especially when there are so many who can't afford to buy peas. I'm sure there are lots of hungry children who would be more than happy to eat their peas if they had any.

[Wait Wut]

15. Guess what?

"Your life boat isn't taking you anywhere. Your just drifting what ever way the current wants to take you."

...is insulting.

[villager]

16. Insults in defense of the status quo long ago replaced "conversation" here

n/t

[TheWraith]

17. The entire point of propaganda is that you DON'T notice it. It wouldn't be effective if you did.

The point of propaganda is to present people with stories that they're likely to believe, and shape or spin the information presented to them in order to push them to draw a given conclusion. Good propaganda is never noticed.

[Electric Monk]

20. This thread is directed at you and yours, as far as I can discern.

Sure, it's propaganda of a sort, but so it this one you wrote

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1861067&mesg_id=1861067

Frankly, I find yours more offensive than this one, and bad propaganda as well (using your definition) fwiw.

[OnyxCollie]

44. Try harder to cover your false quotes next time. nt

[Lionessa]

18. I agree, however....

First, let me point out that I'm one that's being told I'm a troll or blinded by propaganda. That said, the rightwingers I've just left behind in Idaho are clearly easily swayed by the 24/7 Fox News Channel and the daytime AMRadio line up. The idea in and of itself isn't outrageous. It's just outrageous that we be pigeon-holed that way when we here on DU that are displeased, state clearly our frustrations with facts and data.

[lpbk2713]

19. Civility usually takes a back seat on the internet.

It's easy for some people to be rude and obnoxious when they don't have to look other people in the eye.
Just try to develop a tougher skin and don't assume what is posted on the internet is absolute truth or fact.

[Motown_Johnny]

24. It is the people who think punching holes in the lifeboat to let the water out

who are the problem


Sorry if bailing is to much work but it is the only thing that removes the water and helps keep us afloat

[Electric Monk]

25. So keep on throwing life jackets overboard because they're too heavy?

:shrug:

[Motown_Johnny]

49. that analogy makes no sense to me

The OP was about swimming out on their own, away from the life boat


I responded that the problem is people damaging the life boat because they think it will somehow help and save them from needing to do any hard work


I don't understand what you are going for here


To me the life jackets would represent progressives in congress and I don't see how I implied that they should be thrown overboard

[johnaries]

26. And yet, we are ALL influenced by outside forces. nt

[Eddie Haskell]

29. I agree! I think?

What's the consensus? Maybe we need a poll.

[SidDithers]

33. If only you would go swimming in a different direction...

but instead, you're just hanging on to the side of the life boat, complaining about how it's being paddled.

Sid

[Wait Wut]

39. HA!!!

:rofl:

[Morning Dew]

43. But if someone says they're swimming away -

they're told they'll be causing the big Puke boat to swamp the raft.

"Sure, swim off, bet you'll love it when Commodore Mittens is in charge."

[ElboRuum]

53. Thanks Sid, you brightened my day.

:toast:

[SidDithers]

64. That's me. Just a little ray of sunshine in a cloudy world...

:hi:

Sid

[William769]

69. I take it you enjoy not living in the real world?

[Maven]

90. Actually, you hijacked the boat and are now screaming "MUTINY"

That seems a little more historically accurate.

:eyes:

[Whisp]

34. I'm afraid of unowned thoughts....

:rofl:

[grntuscarora]

35. Well said.

thanks.

[stranger81]

37. Yes, it's insulting.

But it pays to remember that it's the folks telling you that who are deluding themselves, not you.

You're not alone here, friend.

:pals:

[treestar]

38. It is pathetic to go through life feeling insulted at every turn

And thinking people betrayed you when they don't do things your way, and that your values you hold dear are so much more important than those of others. And that you are unable to examine that maybe you are being manipulated, or admitting you are willing to because you don't want to face reality.

And that feeling insulted, you would vote or do things against your own interest and those of most of society, just to get back at whoever you believe insulted you.

[Little Star]

40. Especially from some who fell for the hope & change propaganda!

I am not referring to all who really believed in that, just those who now want to act like everyone else is gullible enough to fall for RW propaganda.

They need to look in the mirror. :eyes:

[ZombieHorde]

42. I agree those insults don't add well to the conversation, but your OP contains

insults as well.

Your readers may be more receptive to your message if try to practice your own suggestions.

[Major Hogwash]

45. Are you saying that you're up a creek without a paddle?

A very interesting way of phrasing it.

[carolinayellowdog]

46. but insulting progressives has become the raison d'etre

of DU in the eyes of some of its most zealous participants lately

[Le Taz Hot]

48. No it's not.

You have to consider the source. These people don't think, they react, like Pavlov's Dog. They scurry around the intertubes desperately trying to find "facts" that will bend to their own particular brand of loyalty and claim anyone who thinks differently must be (fill in the blanks).

This is it. For many years I listened intently to criticisms by others and took it to heart, dutifully mentally and emotionally lashing myself almost to death. Then one day I realized that my critics were imperfect people passing imperfect judgement on another imperfect person and I suddenly saw the whole situation as it really was -- absurd and not worth one more second of my time.

[DirkGently]

62. It's a lot of projection. People who propagandize believe everyone but they are helpless before it.

Kind of like the thief with 14 locks on the door.

:D

[uponit7771]

50. *******FDR HAD AN 83% DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS !!!!!*******

[MessiahRp]

59. You're such a thread spammer.

And you have one weak argument you C&P over and over and over.

FDR had a spine. Obama has none.

[Ikonoklast]

61. What would FDR have accomplished with a Republican House?

You can ignore reality all you want, but it won't change cold, hard fact.


FDR could have been 100 feet tall and farted fire, but without a Democratic majority in the legislature he would have accomplished exactly *nothing*.

[russspeakeasy]

71. How will we ever know ?

:evilgrin:

[ElboRuum]

54. I agree.

Obama supporters do feel this way, you know, insulted, when accused of swallowing 'propaganda'. Often, in fact. More often than is desirable, or even comfortable, especially given the comity that is desired or even expected of his/her fellow DU members.

Oh, wait, that isn't what you meant, is it? :think:

[slackmaster]

55. Yes, and people on DU do that to their fellow DUers every day

It's pretty arrogant, actually.

[Odin2005]

56. THANK YOU!

:yourock:

[DirkGently]

57. Telling others to shut up because they're "undermining the cause" shows fear of the truth. Always.

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

58. Primary Challenge

Get in on.:hippie:

[MissDeeds]

79. It's our only hope n/t

[barbtries]

60. i'm afraid of a republican in the white house

at least one that doesn't call himself a democrat.
yes obama has disappointed me terribly. but he's still better than a republican imo.

it's insulting to be called a drifter on a lifeboat going nowhere, too. not to mention that i never told you any of what you're bitching about in your post, but since i'll be voting for obama i'm fairly certain that your little screed is in fact directed my way.

[immoderate]

63. Yeah, with Obama there, people will not revolt against Republican policies!

That way, we can take it lying down!

Obama is the Republican's best friend.

--imm

[barbtries]

66. see there ya go.

show me an alternative with a chance to win
and please keep in mind that i'm in NC which barely went blue in 2008.
how i wish i was still in CA where i actually could follow my conscience.
i still believe that any republican would be worse than obama. i still believe that.
no, it sucks for me no matter what. including being called names and being insulted and knee-jerked constantly at my old familiar virtual home away from home, DU.

[immoderate]

73. You are right. We will have a limited choice:

Obama, who will implement Republican policies, with an occasional socially liberal bone, (like maybe someday, gay marriage?) while Democrats fight among themselves.

--or,--

A Republican, likely pretty crazy, who will propel citizens into the streets with huge protests to reform how our government is implemented, radically.



That a Republican would be worse, may not be the issue. Are you sure that having a secret Republican isn't worse? :shrug:


--imm

[barbtries]

77. after seeing what the republican governors have been doing

in WI, FL, MI, etc, i feel pretty sure of it. yes i can be wrong. but that is my belief as of today. i shudder to think of another four or eight years with a republican. as sorely disappointed as i am with obama, i do not agree that he is "as bad" as a republican. this my opinion of course.

usually when i think too hard about any of it i just throw up my hands saying "hell in a handbasket!" helpless. nearly hopeless. not fun. but definitely not willing to consider a republican for president. nononononnnnooooo

[immoderate]

95. And where are the people demonstrating?

Where there are Republican governors. They won't oppose Obama, no matter how reactionary he gets.


--imm

[barbtries]

97. really?

i could have sworn there were people demonstrating at the white house all week long. me, i've been working. i march when i can but it's not enough. on the other hand i still have to eat and i have a son to put through college and i'm lucky to have a job and on and on and on. i write to the president regularly. today i told him that he's losing his base. will it matter; i don't know, i doubt it, but it's all i can do.

[immoderate]

98. People demonstrate at the WH every day. Tar sands cause a flurry.

But the occupations that went on in WI will not happen if Obama is there, granting indulgences to his rich handlers. I told him I'm not voting for him. He doesn't give a shit.

But a Perry in office, will draw people to the Capitol.

The place to watch is NY. Cuomo is a DINO, who is fucking with the people of NY! I'm from there originally and I'm guessing there will be fireworks. Maybe that would send a message to Obama. To have the crowd that cheered his victory calling for his resignation.

Women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, end of Vietnam, all had to happen through strong civil action. Obama's job is to derail any popular movement.


--imm

[barbtries]

99. ok so here's my bottom line.

i think we're on the same page: end the wars, put the people to work, health care for everyone, equality, women's rights, you know, the left's traditional goals and aspirations.

give me a realistic alternative to the president. remember, i live in NC! it sucks, it does, but what SUCKS WAY WORSE is the very thought of a perry a palin a romney or (BITE MY FINGERS) another bush in the white house.

i love ideals and i have them. i am a very empathetic person who deplores wars and the erosion of civil rights in this country. but man you got to give me more than "obama sucks" - i KNOW that, but i cannot, can NOT see doing anything else at this point. i mean i am all for continuing to let him know, and let all of our lawmakers know, about what they're doing that is wrong, and i do. but bottom line yes he still has my vote. as of right now, hell yes he still has my vote. no republicans, no republicans, no republicans!

what do you want? just the fact that a republican will get masses of people out on the street means nothing. gwbush still had eight long years to inflict enormous damage - and people were there, protesting, every step of the way. it seriously causes me to shudder, the thought that it could happen again. this whole disconnect makes me feel distraught. damn it all anyway. hell in a handbasket.

[elocs]

65. Relax, don't move. An elite DU TruthSquad of lie-refuters will soon be here to set you straight.

Your dissatisfaction and disillusionment will be dismissed and you will learn to not worry, and to be happy with how the President has done and is doing his job.

[mfcorey1]

67. Again, I post

“If you can control a man’s thinking, you don’t have to worry about his actions. If you can determine what a man thinks you do not have worry about what he will do. If you can make a man believe that he is inferior, you don’t have to compel him to seek an inferior status, he will do so without being told and if you can make a man believe that he is justly an outcast, you don’t have to order him to the back door, he will go to the back door on his own and if there is no back door, the very nature of the man will demand that you build one.” Carter G Woodson

[William769]

70. K&R.

[Mosaic]

72. Obama is up against some mighty terrible forces

1. A fully center/right corporate media
2. A hateful radio/faux/teabagger racist machine
3. An easily influenced by thug operatives blogosphere
4. A crazy thug controlled House, and weak as hell Senate
5. Racism, did I mention that already?

I feel for the man. If he is not reelected things will get many magnitudes worse than they are now. Don't even think of not voting for him.

[gulliver]

75. The truth hurts and life ain't fair.

Everyone should acknowledge your right to feel the way you do. If they don't, that's life. The insulted, invalidated feelings need to be balanced just as much as the betrayed and disappointed feelings. It's on you.

[KG]

76. heh. I found the straw-grasping nature of that thread to be amusing...

:rofl:

[MissDeeds]

78. Thank you so much for saying this

I am so sick and tired of being told to vote for something that I do not support and that is the complete antithesis of everything the Democratic Party has embodied for decades. I am a Democrat, and I will not support any candidate who fails to meet the time honored criteria - no matter what letter that candidate chooses to put after his/her name.

K&R!!!

[zalinda]

85. And the fault lies with Obama

People not only voted for him, but crossed party lines, because they believed in his hope and change BS. Here in poor country, nothing has changed, except it has gotten worse. You now have to send a resume, have a drivers license and be a high school graduate to mop floors.

Obama has continually come off as being weak, and elitist. He uses $5 words when the very people he needs to vote and support him can't understand a damn think he is saying. The indies and low information voter will go for the person who is plain talking and appears to be strong. Many of the tea party people who were elected talked about jobs, and that's how they got in, Obama wasn't delivering what they needed. And, because I'm registered as an indie, I received election materials from both parties. Repubs are not putting their party affiliation on most of their campaign literature. So, unless you have the Internet, how are you going to find out what party they are affiliated with.

No, this one is on Obama.

zalinda

[Jakes Progress]

86. Well all the usual excusers had their shot.

They proved your point for you. They see things from only their eyes. They still think everything is fine. Oh, well. As they try to alienate as many voters as possible, maybe they will get their wish and the president will know they are special, special because they of some of the few who voted for him. That does seem to be their goal.

[mzteris]

87. yes, insulting . . . . but propaganda

is good at what it does. And some people are brilliant at producing it. The vast majority of people ARE brainwashed - commercials, celebrities, blogs, posting boards, parents, friends, neighbors, communities...

The ability to engage in critical thinking is in very short commodity in this country. It's no longer taught. And even those who ARE "good at it", may still fall victim in a moment of inattentiveness or weakness or distraction. Not having all the facts. Having distorted facts. Twisted facts. Slightly skewed facts. Incomplete facts. Caught up with the moment, the movement, they hysteria, the excitement, the dread, the fear. . .

KNOW YOUR SOURCE. And still check THEIR sources.

It never hurts to check your own beliefs and mind - just to make sure - you've not missed a little something.

[Robb]

88. You sound, and I don't intend this to insult you further, like my father.

This is precisely his defense of his own conservative predilections.

I'd never looked at it this way, but perhaps it's an intransigence that has little to do with ideology, clearly, since you are hardly a right-winger.

[Lucian]

89. +1

[NYC Liberal]

91. Some people are not leaving the boat and doing their own thing, but rather

they are staying on the boat and constantly whining and complaining about what the vast majority of people on the boat feels should be done.

If these people want to do their own thing: go for it. But that is not what they are doing now.

[Hart2008]

92. Yes, and the people making such suggestions and insinuations are very aggressive.

Someone here actually asked if I was a Pat Buchanan for mentioning the President's falling approval ratings.

Like we all have some obligation to go into denial about the political reality of unemployment over 9%.

Kick and Recommend!

K & R

[SkyDaddy7]

94. Poor baby...Do you need a tissue?

Stop with the crap! The ones being insulted are the one's who are still left on DU that say the slightest thing positive about the President...Not you "leaving the lifeboat" types.

No wonder the Republicans refer to us as CRY BABIES! Yeah, I fucking said it!!!

[TwilightGardener]

96. Why be insulted? Why worry about what others think? Say what you think and don't worry

about it.