Is it Time for Democrats to Fight Obama?

[Better Believe It]

Is it Time for Democrats to Fight Obama?
By Cenk Uygur
Host of The Young Turks
December 15, 2010

You want to hear something really depressing? If John McCain had won the presidency, there is almost no chance he could have gotten the Bush tax cuts extended for the rich. Think about it. How was a Republican president going to get an overwhelmingly Democratic Senate and House to pass those tax cuts that they hated under Bush?

Funny how the rich and powerful win no matter who is in charge and what party they claim to be from. And think about how much the political spectrum has shifted to the right that Bush had to use reconciliation and then barely got the tax cut through a Republican Congress whereas now a Senate with basically 59 Democrats just passed the same tax cuts with ease. Washington has fallen off a right-wing cliff and the media hardly noticed.

Finally, you have to ask why Democrats who were willing to fight Bush are crumbling in front of Obama? He claims to be the leader of your party, but honestly who cares? If he is doing the exact opposite of what you claim to stand for, why does it matter what he calls himself?

Democrats would certainly have fought a surge in Afghanistan if Bush was in charge. They would be complaining about warrantless wiretapping if Bush continued that program instead of Obama. They would have hated the monopoly that drug companies got in the health care legislation (because they went nuts over it when Bush made the same deal). And they would have gone apoplectic over these huge tax cuts for the rich. But under Obama, the defense contractors, the rich and the powerful have gotten almost everything they wanted and nary a peep was heard from the Democrats in Congress.

Read the full article at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/is-it-time-for-democrats_b_797012.html

[dkf]

1. Cenk is crazy. With the new house and senate President McCain could have made them permanent.

Yeah it is true he wouldn't have gotten it yet. He would just wait til next year.

[Better Believe It]

4. Democrats wouldn't "filibuster" against them? And Republicans would not have won as many seats in

the 2010 election with the country in a even deeper recession under the leadership of a Republican president.

[hulka38]

7. These tax cuts are temporarily temporary

iow, they're more likely to be permanent than to be raised a few years from now. If McCain were president, I don't think he would be dealing with a dazed and demoralized Democratic minority in the House in 2011 nor would he have an emboldened and confident GOP on the march.

[dkf]

10. Yet the House swept in on Obama's coattails.

It's hard to figure this out because if McCain had won the situation back then would have had to be different too. Thinking about it is making my head spin.

[hulka38]

13. True.

Those time machine exercises have their limitations.

[pa28]

9. Republicans are all powerful when they control nothing.

Democrats are totally powerless unless they have a President, the house and and 80-20 majority in the Senate.

Perhaps defeatism is part of our problem.
:eyes:

[Poboy]

20. There is no other explanation than collusion. -nt

[ThomCat]

15. No, he is not crazy. He made very valid points.

Many have been saying since day-one that a whole lot of dems have been supporting shit under Obama that they would have hated under Bush. That is the textbook definition of hypocrisy.

If something is wrong it should not matter who is in office. It is still wrong.

Just because people love Obama so much that the stars in their eyes blind them doesn't mean that torture is now right, or tribunals, or spying on Americans, or targeting journalists for assassination, or hiding routine information from the American people behind "States Secrets," or extending and expanding unnecessary wars, or emptying our treasury to make rich people richer while neglecting poor people, or expanding free trade and sending MORE jobs overseas.

These are ALL ISSUES that we would have opposed if a republican was in office, but because Obama is in office all the people in love with him roll over and think anything he does is wonderful.

Obama even admits that on some issues, like health care reform, he ran with the REPUBLICAN proposal instead of any of the Democratic proposals. He started from the right-most proposal in an effort to be bipartisan and attract republican support, and then he kept moving even farther to the right at each and every step in the negotiations. Never once did he move back to the left. In fact he attacked the left and excluded the left from the negotiations. Yet all we hear from those who adore him is that this is the best and most liberal bill that ever could have been possible. What total bullshit!

We have a failed negotiator for a president. He's big at talking smack, but the only people he fights are his base. The only people he goes to court to stop are the LGBTQI community he claims to be trying to help. Meanwhile he can't find that same effort to fight his real opponents on any real issue he is really supposed to be fighting.

Yet you call Cenk crazy? No, he's seeing things very clearly.

[Nite Owl]

2. K&R

Love Cenk, wish he were still on in the afternoon on MSNBC.

[alex cross]

3. That's like asking if a virulently ant-communist could have opened

relations with Red China back in the 70's. Nixon was the only guy that could have pulled it off.

[nevergiveup]

5. I sure would have liked me some McCain appointed

Supreme Court Justices and a nice big fat war with Iran, thanks to Sec of Defense, Joe Lieberman. Cenk is nuts.

[hulka38]

8. Cenk did not say that he'd rather have McCain than Obama

as you stated. The points you raised are good and I'd rather have Obama in there than McCain for those reasons and more. However, that's aside from Cenk's point that McCain doesn't get the tax cuts for the rich and the larger question about fighting Obama.

[Poll_Blind]

6. I would say the best course of action is not to fight Obama, just go around him. He's done, used up.

It doesn't matter why Obama is doing the things he does. It doesn't. What matters is he isn't doing the things he should be and we have every reason to believe that he will continue behaving in the same manner. He promised to deliver and not only has he failed to deliver, his administration and he personally have bitten big chunks out of the Progressives in the Democratic party. He's just another thing to work around at this point. No need to save his soul, educate him or figure out the whys of the whole affair. A big thanks to comments by Sam Seder and George Soros, numerous political writers and users at DU.

PB

To those who strongly disagree, we'll both know whether my current sour mood is right come February or thereabouts when the government runs out of money. All remaining doubt will be put to bed then, so enjoy your Christmas and New Year while ya can.

[WiffenPoof]

12. Excellent Post PB...I Agree n/t

[pa28]

14. I'm afraid I have to agree.

Based on recent events our leadership focus should be on principled House and Senate members.

[glitch]

29. K & R this post. nt

[tomp]

32. the focus should be shared between obama and the democratic party...

..all of whom failed to achieve progress and have actually moved us backward. obama could not do this alone.

singling out obama and making him the focus saves the democratic party from being held accountable.

[msongs]

11. uj oh Mr. Obama might actually fight back against something - dems lol nt

[ThomCat]

16. The dem base are the only ones Obama ever

gets the courage to fight back against.

Any opponent from the right, or any corporate big-wig opponent and Obama will talk the talk, and then collapse immediately. He will cave in and give them a deal even bigger and better than whatever they came in asking for to begin with. It's like he's apologizing for having offended them and having taken up so much of their important time.

But when anyone on the left demands anything, Oh Hell No, suddenly Obama learns how to stand up and not back down. He's fighting from the right. Defending right-wing decisions and policies. Acting like a right-wing president.

He keeps claiming he's a progressive. When do we get to see some of that?

Adopting, pushing and defending a republican health insurance bill doesn't show it.
His war acts doesn't show it.
His song and dance defending DADT doesn't show it.
His adding to free trade agreements doesn't show it.
His lackadaisical support for cap and trade instead of real support for hard caps doesn't show it.
His record on FOIA requests certainly doesn't show it.
His record on torture doesn't show it.
His refusal to restore the rule of law, or hold anyone accountable for war crimes doesn't show it.
His roundup of anti-war activists on B.S new standards meant to outlaw activism doesn't show it.
His expansion of spying on U.S. Citizens doesn't show it.
His approval of expanded across the board invasive TSA practices doesn't show it.
His economic record, his jobless recovery that helps the rich but not the poor doesn't show it.
His unwillingness to reign in bank abuses, even as they have been widely publicized still doesn't show it.

In all of these areas he's acting like a moderate republican! Sometimes, not even so moderate a republican.

[Smarmie Doofus]

17. But he warned us to watch out for the "military-industrial complex", no?

Or was that Eisenhower.

I sometimes get my moderate republicans mixed-up.

Besides... if Obama said it he must have meant "watch out for" the sense of "feed it, take care of it, burp it."

>>>>>In all of these areas he's acting like a moderate republican! Sometimes, not even so moderate a republican.>>>>>>>>>

[ThomCat]

35. Politics in the US has moved so drasticly far to the right that

Eisenhower's views today would put him with side by side with Kucinich. Eisenhower would be considered radically on the left today for his views on government being independent from, and superior to business.

And for his views that America could be a benevelent presence in the world through diplomacy, without relying upon our military, and certainly without allowing defense contractors to become wealthy and powerful from the deaths of others.

And for his views about having as many Americans as possible upwardly mobile into the middle class as a means to national prosperity and power.

Instead of a being moderate republican he wouldn't even be allowed in the republican party. He might not even be allowed in the Democratic Party at this point. That is a really sad and horrible indication of how drastically out of alignment the political spectrum has been pushed and dragged over the past few decades.

We need to pull the entire political spectrum back to the left, so that these ideas are not considered beyond the fringe of the loony left anymore. It would be nice if ideas like those could actually be taken seriously again by people on the right.

[BzaDem]

18. My question is: Is it time to realize that those who would enable a Republican in the voting booth

who claim to be on the "left" are not meaningfully any different than those who enable a Republican in the voting booth on the right?

If their actions are simply to allow a Republican to get elected, who cares what their reasons are? How are they even relevant? When do we start calling a spade a spade?

[tomp]

33. get back to us when you have an intelligent question. nt

[Poboy]

19. recommend.

[JoePhilly]

21. Cenk has lost his mind.

First, the Dems NEVER fought Bush. They rolled over and played DEAD repeatedly. They complained a little, but they never took a stand.

Second, Cenk assumes that if McCain won, the Dems would still hold the same majorities they hold now. Which is ridiculous. If MacCain won, lots and lots of Dems who rode in on Obama's coat tails would have LOST, and McCain would have pulled Republicans in with him.

Third. Cenk's bitching about a surge in Afghanistan neglects the fact that McCain wanted to STAY THE COURSE in IRAQ!! And he was talking very much about war with Iran.

Forth. Cenk tries to make some point about healthcare ... ummm, if McCain had won, Healthcare would not be an issue because there would have been zero effort on it. Same for financial reform.

Cenk is having a masturbatory fantasy.

[dionysus]

22. wow, what a load of bullshit.

:rofl:

[raouldukelives]

23. If you can't beat em, join em.

We have made our choice to also stand for the corporations, shadow banking and global elite. But really, how could run against them?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

25. It varies. In the bush administration congressional democrats quit assisting after 2006

[ProSense]

26. So this fool is pining for McCain?

Not only is Cenk's claim is bogus, he has no clue what McCain would do, and isolating this deal from the rest of a McCain Presidency is absurd.

Where would the economy be under a McCain Presidency? What kind of stimulus package, if there was one, would he have implemented? What about all his other policies?

Is Cenk claiming that the tax cuts would have been allowed to expire? What about the unemployed? Would unemployment be better?

Cenk is a fool and a desperate attention seeker.

[Scurrilous]

27. ...

:yourock:

[ihavenobias]

28. K & R n/t

[L0oniX]

30. Kucinich/Grayson 2012

[Motown_Johnny]

31. If McCain had won then the tax cuts would be extended but no unemployment

extensions would have been.


Plus the extensions would be for another 10 years, not just 2.


This is nuts!


The idea that we would have been better with McCain/Palin is laughable, except for the slim possibility that McCain's health would have suffered from the pressure of the job and we would now have a President Palin.

[moonchild420]

34. Is it Time for Democrats to Fight Obama

I'll never understand why we (DEMS) cant properly and with
convictions point our finger at the real culprits? GOP! The
Dems needs to fight the GOP!

Some say Obama shouldn't  have caved on the tax extensions,
most of them are probably getting paycheck. How do you let ppl
go without money to pay bills and celebrate Xmas? Probably
beyond that since the GOP will be in charge.

Some say Obama should have fought harder, what if that would
of backed fired? 
You see what happened when he became pissy with his base? 
Could you imagine if he did that with the people who don't
support Obama? 
Now, THAT would be Xmas for Fox!

I'm sure, maybe, something else could've been done but with
people not having money AND taxes go up why risk it. Never
mind Citizen United. The GOP knew that. 
After Jan 1 it'll be nothing but campaigning for the GOP.
Nothing worthwhile will get passed. EVERYTHING they do will
have a motive..

Obama will probably do something to make a group of people
angry/disappointed. It'll get ridiculous media attention.
People watching or scowling, or raising their fists at Obama.
While thats going on the GOP will be picking our pockets. So,
I'm asking the people who have blogs.. If you see it call out.
The GOP needs to be held accountable..FINALLY

 The Dems needs to fight the GOP!