On Dec. 7, 1951, media barely mentioned Pearl Harbor.

[Deep13]

Here is a newspaper opinion piece in the LA Times comparing the 10-year anniversary of 9/11 and Pearl Harbor.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-wiener-anniversaries-20110909,0,4757773.story

So why the forced nostalgia, the mawkish and morbid attention given by media today? The writer draws his own conclusions, of course, but here's something I will add. Pearl Harbor began the USA's official entry into WW2. After much sacrifice that dwarfed 12/7, the USA emerged as an unquestioned and triumphant victor. Yes we were attacked, but look what we accomplished as a result. The intervening years between 9/11 and now, by contrast, show an empire in decline. We are still fighting two botched and drawn-out wars, the second of which was wholly unnecessary. It has ruined our economy, seriously compromised our civil liberties and militarized our thinking with no discernible end in sight. And at ground zero in NYC little progress has been made in repairing the physical damage. In short, there is much cause for regret and little for optimism.

Plus a televised media united under corporate control has fetishized 9/11 making mandatory the ostentatious remembrances.

[dsc]

1. we were in one quite unpopular war in 51 as well though

Korea.

[CTyankee]

36. It wasn't the point, tho. This wasn't about Korea, it was about WW2.

So, we couldn't have a something to commemorate Pearl Harbor?

Strange, that. Maybe folks had just had enough of war at that point....

[bemildred]

2. We won that war, and it didn't take ten years. nt

[Synicus Maximus]

23. A minor but important point, we did not win that war, truce was

declared and an armistice signed in 1953. Technically we have been at war in Korea for 61 years.

[fishbulb703]

34. I think he was talking about WWII nt

[bemildred]

37. Like the OP. nt

[PeaceNikki]

3. Well... you're comparing apples to Jeeps. We're in the "information age" now.

We see tragedies unfold in real time. The world is a difference place than it was in 1951.

[Deep13]

5. Then what makes 9/11 so special? nt

[PeaceNikki]

8. Well, most of us watched it happen in real-time, for one.

And it was in the middle of New York City and DC, not on a military base.

Millions of photos, hundreds of hours of video and images that were ingrained into the memories of nearly every American made it very different.

[texanwitch]

4. Terror, terror and more terror.

Have to keep the America people afraid of their own shadows.

Need to have a reason for our two wars, all that money spent we need here.

[graywarrior]

6. Which is when I saw Tom Brokaw's horse face on TV yesterday,

I decided to not watch any 911 stuff today.

[Odin2005]

7. In 1951 folks were still exausted from the Depression and WW2 and...

...just wanted to move on. Nowadays we tend to dwell on the past because the hope for a better tomorrow is fading.

[etherealtruth]

9. The "media" then did not have any resemblance to the media now

In 1951 there were newspapers and radio (for mass consumption). The experience of "Pearl Harbor" was not seared into the American Psyche (I'm not claiming it did not effect them. Simply, the images in our living rooms were far more intense on 9/11. It made the horror very personal.

[Drale]

10. Millions apon Millions of people did not watch Pearl Harbor unfold on live TV /nt

[JI7]

11. so

[Deep13]

14. until

Oh, sorry, I thought we were posting random small words.

Is that the beginning of a thought you forgot to write or is it a question like "so what?"

[Deep13]

12. re: live coverage of 9/11

I don't dispute that it was shocking and horrifying to see the second tower get hit on TV or people jumping from the upper floors or the buildings collapse. But does that feeling of horror really last ten years?

[PeaceNikki]

13. Yes. It will last forever because we have those images on film.

[Deep13]

16. Pearl Harbor was also filmed, albeit in black and white.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2PDl-wSBLQ

People saw newsreels, of course, and did not watch it real time. Still, those moving images are just as permanent as the video shot 10 years ago.

[PeaceNikki]

19. It's not JUST video, it's the content as well. Thousands of images. People faces running in horror

covered in soot, jumping from a high-rise. We saw high-Definition horror, carnage, death and fear. I don't need to post any pictures here but you know that they exist. Tons of them. Also factor in that people were talking to passengers on the hijacked planes and people trapped in the buildings as it was happening as well. This event was personal because we all knew someone or knew someone who knew someone who was or could have been there.

[Deep13]

22. Ah, so it was much more realistic on 9/11...

...because the technology was such that the things you mention were possible, when they were not in the '40s.

And maybe your last sentence is it. I personally don't know anyone directly involved. None of my relatives or friends lived in NYC or Washington and I did not yet know the few internet friends I have who live there.

[MichiganVote]

28. Actually the PR part of the military/WWII had films of Pearl at just about every

movie theater for the duration of the war. Including the bombing of Dresdan, Berlin, London etc. People watched them all the time. And you could get a gravy boat too! :) So films of destruction, of civilian and military death are not new. They were used to promote the war effort, recycling of resources for the war effort and heavily used by FDR to even get into the war in the 1st place.

[The Straight Story]

15. ww2 followed Parl harbor, and that was something of a bigger story, and uh

The media still mentions and discusses WW2 a lot (ala history channels, movies, etc).

10 years after Pearl harbor - well a lot more happened in those 10 years than have the last 10.

[Deep13]

17. That's part of my point.

And yeah we still talk about WW2, but it is not the enforced grief therapy session that 9/11/2011 has become.

[The Straight Story]

18. I think the Japanese still mark the atomic bombings (and we talk about them here)

after all of these years.

[Deep13]

21. I'm sure they do.

I'm sure people will always talk about 9/11. But this feels like we are being forced to attend a second funeral for a deceased loved-one ten years after we have managed to stop grieving.

[The Straight Story]

27. Don't watch tv then :) (nt)

[Deep13]

32. In point of fact, I'm not.

I'm questioning the country's inability to move past 9/11. In 1993 when I was in Europe, much of the midwest was underwater. One of the things that I heard surprised Europeans was that reconstruction had started before the ground had even dried up. Now, it's been a decade and NYC has not even replaced the WTC yet. That should have been FINISHED five years ago and they are just now starting. There are actual victims of 9/11 that deserve justice. But the whole country are not all victims. What the hell has happened to us? I feel like we have become a giant Opra Windfry audience.

[Deep13]

20. Looking at the unrecs.

So some of you see this as the mass media and the official establishment see it then. It's a unique event and nothing this bad has ever happened before. Further we ought to still feel really sad, angry, whatever about it because dwelling on how sad or scared we are has some positive value. I realize there are some who lost friends or family members and have special cause for grief. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the nation as a whole.

Or is this one of those things that hegemonic interests in our society have decided that we do not question?

Frankly, I was a bit shocked on Sept. 12 and for about a week. But I know worse things have happened to people before and are still happening. God or fate or whatever has not exempted the USA from irrational mass violence. After all, this country has committed enough of it over the years. We are not special. I got over it. Maybe I was a bit callous because the sudden loss of my father in 1999 effected me far worse than 9/11 did and I probably became somewhat calloused as a result, but I really don't think so. I will say this, I was never scared of the terrorists. Not even a little. I was far more concerned about my wife who was driving home to OH from FL in a rental car because her flight had been cancelled. But 10 years later I rather resent being dragged back to a time that I have managed to put in the past psychologically. It's like we have dug up the corpse to have a second funeral.

[MichiganVote]

25. Actually I agree with you Deep. I Have no problem with the families planning their own

memorials. And true, the memorial site is special. But I suspect that much of this is still a hyped up PR campaign for NY, for politicians and for the media.

Funny thing, about a week ago I met a very lovely woman, 89, who was married two days before Pearl Harbor. They were married at Pearl one afternoon and she left the next afternoon to return home as he had duty time. Her husband was stationed there at the time of that attack. He got up that morning, went to church on the base and of course, shortly after that all Hell broke out. He was not on one of the ships thank goodness.

Long story short, war took over their lives and she did not see or speak to her new groom for 4 years. When he returned after the war, he went to work, he raised 5 kids and he paid his taxes. :)

I doubt the man was unaffected by the horror of that day, but he managed his life without continual memorials or remembrances. So of course, did thousands of others. She told me that he attended a few military things over the years but that he was not a "legionnaire" most of his life.

So I really don't see the point of anymore public memorials, parades, photo-op's etc. Its done. Its over. There is no public benefit to this anymore.

I'd like it to end too.

[texanwitch]

30. I know a gentleman who was at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked.

He was all of 16 years old, lied to get into the Army.

He was slightly wounded in the leg, he was helping a buddy to safety.

He went to on fight in Patton's 3rd Army, saw lots of action.

As he said he was a old man of 21 when he left the Army.

He was married, had 4 kids, many grandchidren, a few great-grand children befoere he died.

He never forget Pearl Harbor and his time in the Army but he moved on.

He felt he had to live for his friends who didn't make it.

There is a time to grieve and and time to remember.

Also there is a time to move on, and make a life.

I lost my Aunt and Granparents at a young age and I had to move on.

I understood what my elderly friend was talking about.

There are those of us who move on and but remember.

We are not showing disrespect for what happened at 911.

I can't live in the past, life goes on.

How many people today think about December 7th now.

I have a link to that day and pay my repects to my friend at his gravesite.

[Politicalboi]

24. 9/11 was a civilian attack

Had Japan attacked the Empire State building it would have been different.

[MichiganVote]

26. Then its time for the civilian families to have their own private memorials. 10 years is enough.

[Fla Dem]

29. I do think there is a distinct difference between Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

For the most part, the western world was at war in 1941. Many horrific images had already been published in newspapers and shown in newsreels. I do remember my parents discussing Pearl Harbor and the sorrow, horror and anger they felt about the people lost aboard the battleships and on the ground. But right after that the USA joined the war and there were many horrors to come. We do honor and remember the lost of both Pearl Harbor and all the wars on Pearl Harbor Day, Veterans Day and Memorial Day.

9/11 was a totally different event. This was a dastardly, cowardly, heinous murder of innocents. Men and women from all races, creeds and nations going about their business. It could have been your mother, father, son, daughter, husband or wife, best friend, fiancee' or YOU, who got up that morning and went to work, got on a plane or subway and expected to come home that night. These were not military personnel (except those at the Pentagon). They were just ordinary working folk. While there were newsreels of Pearl Harbor, we did not experience it happening in real time. Does that make it any less sorrowful, or horrific, no. But to actually watch, as it is happening, a plane full of people smashing into the tower and know in THAT INSTANT all those lives were lost and imaging the horror they felt as they closed in on the building, hit you on such a deep level. Or watching the top of those buildings awash in flames and you just knew anyone above those flames didn't have a chance, or as those buildings collapsed on themselves you prayed no one was still in those towers. Or as those people jumped you watched in horror and tried to understand how desperate you would have to be to jump from such a height knowing full well you would not survive. This was a personal event, whether you were there or not, whether you knew anyone who perished or not. I'm glad the ceremonies were broadcast this weekend. I didn't think I was still emotional about 9/11, but I guess I was wrong.

People die every day, some peacefully, other in ways you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. We read about it, see news stories on television and we shake our heads, feel sorrow for them and their loved ones. But then we move on. The events of 9/11 left an indelible mark on the souls of many people. It was a shared horror, sorrow and anger. I suspect as the years go by the remembrance events will not be as extensive; as each generation passes, the events that marked their lives become only history.

I understand there may be some who don't give a twit and that certainly is their right. But there is no "forced nostalgia" no one is making you sit in front of a television and watch, or read a newspaper, or web page, or to partake of "this fetishized 9/11 ostentatious remembrances" . How juvenile.

[Deep13]

31. So the mature thing would be to live in cave during the 10th anniversary.

I don't have that luxury. I still have to live in the world and function despite the media saturation. Your ad hominem attack notwithstanding, you remarks kind of prove my point. It was traumatic as it was and still is somehow because Americans had an expectation to be exempt from that. And we feel we have a right at continuous outrage that anyone would ever dare attack us. Yeah, it's as bad as everyone says, but it is only truly shocking if one ignores the fact that mass violence happens all the time. I read a historical article last night that said that since 1945 there has been about one genocide per year. With that perspective, 9/11 loses some of its shock value. So yeah, I think media and the powers that be are intentionally manipulating and exploiting people's feelings. And you can call me juvenile, but I will respond with "how provincial."

[treestar]

33. Big change in the national character

We are far more sentimental than we were then.

Since Vietnam, we no longer accept every war unconditionally.

[sufrommich]

35. Manning the rails

Still, to this day:

Every United States Navy, Coast Guard, and Merchant Marine vessel entering Pearl Harbor participates in the tradition of "manning the rails". Personnel serving on these ships stand at attention at the ship's guard rails and salute the USS Arizona Memorial in solemn fashion as their ship slowly glides into port. More recently, as foreign military vessels are entering Pearl Harbor for joint military exercises, foreign troops have participated in the traditional manning the rails.


http://www.worldofstock.com/stock_photos/PMI1194.php

[demoblemocratic]

38. media

Yes, but they did mention the Russians, who were being used to scare the people into accepting a radical imperialist agenda in the same way that the "terrorists" are today.
They just replace one boogeyman with another.

[Lucian]

39. I totally agree.

K&R

[Warren DeMontague]

40. That's because EVERYTHING WAS BETTER IN 1951!!!!!!

We just suck, now.

We suck. Everything sucks. It's this fucking technology, and the video games. Sex on the internet, making young women wear skimpy clothes. The Greatest Generation wouldn't have stood for that- you're not leaving the house dressed like that, young missy.

People aren't the strong-willed, fortitude-filled, honorable mom n' pop decent Merkins they usedtabe.

Gosh, I miss segregation, illegal contraception, prayer in schools, lynchings, polio especially. Man, I SO wish it was 1951.

Yeah, did I mention how bad we suck?

[Deep13]

41. swing and a miss

Not sure what you are getting at, but I didn't suggest any of that.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. No, but you can't escape the "we're self absorbed navel gazers, now" undertone

in those sorts of pieces.