Bad guys don't need trials -

[whatchamacallit]

bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy - the government decides who is a bad guy - bad guys don't need trials - I am safe because I'm not a bad guy...

[DFab420]

1. People you are fighting a war against don't need trials. People you are fighting a war against don't

People you are fighting a war against don't need trials. People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.People you are fighting a war against don't need trials.

[MNBrewer]

2. Nuremberg Trials

Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials

[DFab420]

5. So next time you are on a battlefield, or even in a cafe that's about to blow up.. Stop the person

right before the pull the trigger and say 'HEY NO ONE HERE HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME!!!"

Let me know how that works out.

[MNBrewer]

8. al Awlaki was on a battlefield, or in the processof blowing up a cafe?

[Akoto]

38. Of course not. He wasn't one to get his hands dirty.

He preferred goading people into killing for him (Fort Hood) or blowing up planes for him (British plane plot). Sometimes, he got involved in operational planning (Christmas Day bomber), while remaining distanced enough for people to defend him. Hell, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Most of the powerful figures in the organization aren't 'on the battlefield,' but they are involved in what happens there, if they're not directly orchestrating it.

[rustydog]

14. So far, this guy is mostly guilty of TREASON

He had no fucking weapons at his disposal, he had no entry into America..So far all he has are WORDS.
last time I looked, America does not assassinate people for fucking TALKING! They are arrested placed on PUBLIC trial and either conviced or they are found not guilty.

This dead guy cannot defend against the "Evidence" we will be hearing in the coming days...How convenient.
I thought Obama said we were a nation of LAWS...
Oh, except..I get it. except...Fuck the Constitution of the United States of America, assassinate american citizens.

[DFab420]

21. Is treason not punishable by death?

[MNBrewer]

26. Read Article 5 of the Constitution

That'll tell you the proper process for prosecuting treason.

[rustydog]

27. AFTER a mother-fucking- trial by JURY

AFTER being found GUILTY by the jury and after the JUDGE pronounces a death sentence. Not one person who happens to occupy the white house.
The President ordered the murder of an American Citizen. No arrest, no trial, no nothing just death.

[Exilednight]

29. Only if the person accused is found guilty by a jury of his peers. n/t

[Arctic Dave]

35. Is bush and cheney guilty of crimes against humanity?

Do you want to go kill them and anyone next to them?

[mmonk]

9. Amen. I no longer fly the flag at my house. I told my family when

the US returns to the Constitution and rule of law, I will fly it again. Some I have given away. The one I keep was the one tri-folded on my father's casket when he was buried. He fought in the war that gave us the Nuremberg trials for people that killed more people than al Queda could ever dream of killing.

[ProSense]

10. Wait

Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials Nuremberg Trials

...weren't these trials after the death and devastation of war?

I mean, has al Qaeda ceased its activities and announced that it no longer plans to attack? Are these terrorist surrendering?

[DFab420]

22. Thank you! I was gonna say that too.

[MNBrewer]

25. It shows that civilized nations conduct civilized justice

Josef Stalin wanted summary execution of tens of thousands of German staff officers.

More civilized leaders prevailed and there were indictments, trials, and verdicts before punishment was imposed.

al Qaida is no Nazi Germany. It has no capability to slaughter millions of people.

We had bin Ladin in custody, then executed him. Why not try him, THEN execute him?

But I guess we're headed down the Stalinist road these days, with summary execution.

[truedelphi]

39. And the Third Reich's stated reason for going to war -

To get the terrorists before the terrorists got Germany!

When that stated reason didn't work in rallying the nation to war, then the German leaders decided to say that Poland had attacked the German people!

[ProSense]

3. I think the President

should demand al Qaeda surrender, and then wait.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

13. No

"Sadly they have conquered your mind."

...my mind is clear: I don't identify with terrorists or cry upon their demise.

[whatchamacallit]

17. Neither do I

I also don't automatically take the word of a government that lied us into war. I promise you will regret the world you're helping to create.

[treestar]

12. Yes. He should wait until they turn themselves in.

Because that's what we can expect from Al Qaeda. They'd never be willing to kill themselves first. Oh, wait.

[rustydog]

23. Does the President get to decide WHO is AlQaeda?

What if he decides I am AlQaeda? Do I get to die?

When in hell are we going to return to treating terrorists like the common punk criminals they are and get the fucking military out of assassination of SUSPECTED terrorists.

[truedelphi]

40. I don't think this current President decides on anything.

But the people who employ him decide plenty.

And so in a way, we should all be careful to say how much we disapprove of the current "Occupy Wall Street" movement - after all, the people who employ the President are not happy about this activity at all.

And they do have the right to find links between occupy Wall Street and Al Queda.

If the Powers that Be could say that American Special Forces killed bin Laden several months ago, even though it is common knowledge in the Far East that the man died years ago, then I guess anything is possible.

It is also of great interest to me, anyway, that Bhutto died, just shortly after revealing bin Laden's death on The David Frost interview conducted some two months or so before she died. And she had applied to the United States for help with her security - and our officials denied her.

[msanthrope]

43. The United Nations decided this guy was AL-Q.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/sc9989.doc.htm

[rustydog]

4. We have turned into a nation of gutless cowards

Be very afraid! 9-11, the twin towers, why do you hate America? Terrorists! Islamist Extremists...It is them or us. this is a War on Terror.

the election is nearing, we are raising the color code to: be very fucking afraid! After GOP wins elections, lower threat to be a little afraid of brown people wearing turbans.
Be afraid, you don't want the proof to be a mushroom cloud over NYC? do you? Why are you bitching about us listening to your phone calls, reading your emails? If you have nothing to hide, you should not have any problem with us listening for BinMissing calling America!

YES, YES, kill this guy you ALLEGE was plotting against America from Yemen. YES! YES send in drones to kill him without benefit of trial. we are in a war on terror anyway, civil rights, international law, the CONSTITUTION be damned!

[DFab420]

7. Um allege? The fucker put out movies and books describing what should happen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

you should do some reading before you starting defending people you may not want to associate with.

[MNBrewer]

11. Due process isn't ONLY for the criminal

It's also for the rest of us.

As Justice Souter said, the Constitution isn't there to protect the popular or powerful. It's there to protect the unpopular and powerless.

Awlaki is about as unpopular as anyone can be, but that's no reason to shred the Constitution.

But go ahead, construct the most beautiful Star Chamber in history. Just hope that it doesn't ever get YOU in its grasp. There will be no trials.

[DFab420]

18. Lol.. ALL IS LOST.. ALL IS LOST!!! HAVE WE NO LAW NOW!!

I'm gonna go ace my noisy neighbor now since apparently the rule of law in the United States is completely gone now......

Shred the consitution? He was an enemy of the state knowningly invovled in crimes against the United States of America as well as other countries in the world. We kill enemies of the state. Sometimes we capture them...sometimes we kill them..

Welcome to the world?

[whatchamacallit]

20. You're a danger to us all. n/t

[MNBrewer]

28. We kill enemies of the state.

Great....

awesome to know.

You're not an "enemy of the state", are you?

[treestar]

15. His father already tried to litigate the matter

Interesting. The courts must have held that he stay on the list.

[MNBrewer]

34. THe courts said he didn't have standing

There was no ruling on the merits of the case, but the Judge presiding DID express some concerns about allowing this type of practice to occur.

[Capitalocracy]

16. Then a trial should be pretty easy.

Just a quick one to appease us antiquated neanderthals who still believe in the rule of law. I'd be quite happy even if it were in absentia. Too much to ask?

[Exilednight]

32. Even Stalin went through the motions of putting on a show trial. n/t

[treestar]

37. In abstention trials are not acceptable

You've shown you have your limit too then. You are willing to have this guy killed without due process if you think he can be killed based on an in abstentia verdict.

And what if he carried out an attack while we were doing that?

It would be "Obama didn't' stop this guy!"

So if Bush had said, "Well, I wanted to capture OBL and try him first, as that would be the only fair way under our constitution," and in that meantime 911 occurred, you'd give him a pass about the Aug. 6 pdf and defend Bush.

[rustydog]

19. So we can kill for movies and FUCKING WORDS???

Then kill me, because I think this country needs to be completely destroyed right now by any means necessary if this is what you truly believe America is.

We have a Constitution that explicitly lays out our system of government and how we handle those who break our laws. They are arrested and put on trial. Timothy McVeigh anyone? Unibomber? Nazi war-crimes suspects???
Since when is murder ok with you? When a man leaves the country and talks shit?

Shoot me now.

[Exilednight]

33. Until this point in American history, no president has ever had another American killed.

It's a sad sad day in America. And I never thought this day would come at the hands of a Democratic president.

[truedelphi]

41. I didn't realize that. Really a sad day.

I have read one or two remarkable works of fiction on renditioning of Americans.

My favorite so far had this plot:
A young guy of Muslim parentage loves to take pictures of buildings that boast gorgeous architectural design. Only one day, the Chicago building that he photographs is on some Homeland Security list - so he is apprehended. Surely anyone taking photos of a building from different angles has evil in their heart, and murderous intentions in his mind, right?

So he is renditioned to another country, and doesn't know where he is. After solitary confinement, and the torture of being in the dark and alone, and knowing no one knows where he is, and he could remain this way for life, does he finally agree to work undercover against a Chicago Muslim cleric, in exchange for being allowed to go free.

But in the end, both the cleric and the Homeland Security people turn on him, although he doesn't know it is happening.

Homeland Security nails him with more "terrorist" charges. Although he has revealed enough information about the cleric, who is indeed plotting death to Americans, the DHS and CIA figure the cleric is more valuable staying out in the open and free to set up another Nine Eleven. Much more value to them than the photographer. So the young Muslim is the one to go off to a Quantanamo style prison for life. Again without anyone knowing where he went, or who took him, or why.

[louslobbs]

24. I think I get what "whatchamacallit" is trying to say. I am safe because I am not a bad guy? The

government decides who is a bad guy? And I think I read, bad guys don't need trials somewhere in this thread? lol......Let's face it, no one is safe from the Anthony Bologna types in this country. How about those "bad" girls he sprayed in the face with his handy can of mace? His type, with authority, metes out their own justice to "those people" who they most likely consider, "bad." Not being a "bad guy/gal," means absolutely nothing, to far too many of those who wield authority in this country and around the world.
Lou

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Al Queda and America don't need to hold trials before killing people because they're special.

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." Friedrich Nietzche

[whatchamacallit]

31. +1 :)

[reACTIONary]

36. FYI Due process means...

The Obama Administration has given its approval to add Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki to the CIA kill or capture list after determining that he has become directly involved in the execution of terrorist attacks.

An American counterterrorism official who remained anonymous stated, “The danger Awlaki poses to this country is no longer confined to words, he’s gotten involved in plots.”

Concerning the legality of the order, The New York Times stated that because the target is deemed a military enemy of the United States, targeting him in such a manner is not considered a political assassination, and therefore does not violate the ban on such acts.

FYI "Due Process" means "in accordance with law", not necessarily "a trial".

[Puregonzo1188]

42. I guess that's why no US presidents have ever been tried.

Or CEOs either.

Bad guys certainly don't get trials.

[blkmusclmachine]

44. How's Cheney & GW doin'?

n/t