I have more confidence in the people occupying Wall St. than the people occupying the White House.

[rug]

[NYC_SKP]

1. Well, Congress for certain.

They're pretty ineffectual.

I would have to disagree with you about the President.

[kelly1mm]

37. Congress doesn't occupy the Whitehouse, the President does. I think

OP was aware of who he was writing about or s/he would have wrote about those occupying the "Capital", "DC", or "our government".

[TheWraith]

2. I'm not at all surprised.

It's a bad habit of some people on the left to confuse being loud with being effective.

[JackRiddler]

15. Being effective at what? Saving the TBTFs? Escalations of war? Keepng Gitmo open?

Keeping the drug war going? Protecting the criminals on Wall Street, and the criminals who engineered the endless wars?

Then yes, the White House has been very effective.

[TheWraith]

40. It's pointless to respond to you if you're going to invent imaginary facts.

Like creating a reality where Obama DIDN'T order the closure of Gitmo only to be blocked by Congress. Or where he and the Dems didn't pass Wall Street reform. Etcetera, etcetera.

[JDPriestly]

50. The Wall Street reform was not nearly strong enough.

It ignores the derivatives problem, does not impose a transaction tax on speed-transactions and does not change the tax bracket on the bonuses paid on Wall Street.

[JackRiddler]

63. No Wall Street reform has been passed or implemented...

that is remotely adequate in responding to the financial disaster of 2007-2009, or would have prevented that disaster, had it been in place beforehand. The regulations as of 1998 (before Democrats and Republicans led a deregulation charge that facilitated the later disaster) were much more robust than Dodd-Frank. Certainly there has been no justice for the crimes of fraud committing by the mortgage lenders, the Wall Street banks and the ratings agencies (on the contrary, their bonuses tell them every day that crime pays). The only thing that was done effectively in this sector was to rescue the TBTF banks from going under in that disaster, and thus to give them more relative power than ever before.

Obama had a long window in which he could have transfered all prisoners out of Gitmo and into custody in the US, and order that they be charged with crimes or released. He did not do so.

Etc., etc.

[ixion]

3. yeah, by a long shot.

The people in the WH have shown quite clearly that they are not to be trusted.

[jaxx]

4. Imagine that.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Why the comparison? That's apples and oranges......

It's not like you ever had confidence in this White House since before day one....
so this post is for no other reason than to do what you do so well.....get even.

[rug]

11. It's not a hard choice.

[NYC Liberal]

16. You're right. It's not. nt

[FrenchieCat]

19. It's apples and oranges.....

or are you supporting total Anarchy and believe there won't be an election
in 2012? :shrug:

I've noticed that some folks are trying to make this movement against Obama,
instead of anti-Corporate wall Street......and I know that this is for their
personal satisfaction.....but in reality, you would just be setting up a
1968 convention redux....if you had it your way, and look who became president due to that?
So will seeing everyone suffer under complete Republican rule satisfy your emotions of getting even with Barack Obama? Because if so, that's creepy....and it means that you really don't care about much.

[Greybnk48]

6. Unrec. Repukes for sure. n/t

[dkf]

7. Can't stand Obama huh?

Well I trust him more than I trust the occupiers.

[Odin2005]

13. So you trusts Wall Street's man over the critics of Wall Street?

[banned from Kos]

20. Obama is not "Wall Street's Man" - its a stupid fucking myth

Its like those who claim Goldman owns him - but in reality he clipped Goldman for $550 million in fines.

Myths live on though.

[Odin2005]

21. Geithner. Summers. You are wrong.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. ...Daley...

His CoS for fuck's sake.

[Supersedeas]

69. a circle of trust vs. a circle of rhetoric

[girl gone mad]

52. They stole billions..

then got billions more in bailouts.

$550 million is not justice, it's a cruel joke.

[FrenchieCat]

22. That's what the tea party protests were about...

I think this movement is more intellectual than the Tea Party.....

[dkf]

24. Lol he is Wall Street's man? You have to be kidding me.

If he was, things wouldn't be this bad. His policies scare Wall Street and that is the truth.

[banned from Kos]

26. But Obama hired a career bureaucrat (Geithner) and an academic (Summers)

That proves it!


(snark, of course)

[Marr]

67. Yeah, but you think we need to cut Social Security and Medicare.

So having your support isn't exactly a mark in his favor.

[girl gone mad]

8. Unfortunately, only one of the above opposes the Wall Street pillage. n/t

[Modern_Matthew]

9. Recc'd to 0...

I agree. I will be voting for the President in 2012, but he doesn't excite me.

Seeing disobedience in the streets is empowering.

[deutsey]

10. +1

[pnorman]

30. So who do you REALLY want in the WH in 2013?

Hmmmm?

[tama]

39. Ronald McDonald nt

[pnorman]

41. You might just get your wish!

An who do you think will be operating his strings?

[tama]

43. Puppeteer is Me eating Bic Mac with Coke Light ;)

And really, I have no respect for the Office. Respect the man, not office. I fart in the general direction of all offices that make men think that they are Mighty Important, more equal than others and have licence to murder and hurt other people. If Obama the man wants asks me for a beer and a nice chat, very well and I'm sure he's nice company, but fuck the President.

[unionworks]

53. Pee Wee Herman n/t

[Odin2005]

12. Me too!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

17. More confidence in them to do what?

[CoffeeCat]

18. Yeah, because they're standing up...the WH isn't!

The corporations rule the White House and they've never
stood up to them. The cabinet is full of them, the Treasury
Dept is filled with Goldman boys. The health-insurance executives
and lobbyists wrote the non-reform healthcare bill. The military
industrial complex wakes up every morning with their bestest
warmongering dreams coming true.

Of course you have more confidence in them.

[EFerrari]

23. Yep.

[FrenchieCat]

25. You'd think you organized the protests......

instead of just taking credit for them now,
and attempting to turn them from a bonifide protest against
the wealthy and the Corporations and trying to make them be
against Barack Obama.....

The tea party protests were against Barack Obama...so if that's what you're into,
why don't you join that protest?

This protest isn't as much against this president as it is against what the Tea Party is for.
This protest wants more government, not less.

[EFerrari]

27. This is a protest against inequality and corruption.

It has nothing to do with the tea klan.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Rug wants to make it against Pres. Obama.....

Which is the only reason she made the comparison.
I believe that it isn't...even if there are a lot of Ron Paul Signs there.
It believe that it is against Corporations, the Wealthy and the inequities
that everyone else is faced with.

[jpgray]

32. Hate to break it to you Frenchie, but Obama's administration is filled to the gills with Wall St.

Where did the chief of staff for Treasury come from? Where did Obama's two chiefs of staff come from? Who listened to Robert Rubin and hired Michael Froman of Citigroup? Larry Summers of D.E. Shaw?

The list goes on. If the protest is against Wall St, it is against much of the Obama administration.

[FrenchieCat]

33. Well Finally!

[tama]

44. You and me, friend

and everyone else: we are the ones we have been waiting for :)

[tama]

42. Excuse me

but I don't believe you are the spokeperson for the OWS or can speak for the 99% movement as whole and it would be more honest just to speak your own mind in 1st person without trying to define what this protest is for.

Those of us who have been used to partisan politics of us-against-them framings and good enemies share one common enemy, the financial system and political corruption that is degrading humanity and environment, but this movement is not just for more-governement-Liberals, we are inclusive movement of cooperation and compassion. And many of us are anarchist (who certainly don't want more government) - and in fact, the initiative and model have been anarchic movements and so far the movement is organizing and growing anarchically, using anarchic methods of decision making etc.

IMHO this movement of We The 99% should not and shall not be taken over by any partisan interest group - not Democrats, not Republicans, not Greens, not Capitalist-Libertarians etc. The one demand "Join Us!" is inclusive 'us', not exclusive.

[sabrina 1]

56. Thank you, you have explained it perfectly. Most of us ARE sick

of partisan politics. And the more of it people see the more they realize what a failure it is. The people have been ignored by DC, both parties. We did all the things we thought would make a difference, we emailed, signed petitions, made phone calls, to politicians, to the media.

We supported them, donated, campaigned etc and after years of doing all that, it finally dawned on us that we were completely ignored by them. We were nothing but an irritant. And if we disagree with our party's policies all the previous work we did for them, is forgotten and we are treated like criminals and traitors.

Enough of that. A new way had to be found and those people on Wall St. seem to have found it. It is a process and it will take time, but it took a long time to get to where we are. But I truly believe this is history in the making because something has to be done or this country won't be worth living in unless you are one of the 1%. And at times like that throughout history, change has happened and often the right people come along when they are needed. I think we are in such a time now, which is why this occupation of wall street has resonated across the country and the world so fast. Everyone was waiting.

[Poll_Blind]

29. Funny part is, most of them would give you the exact same rhetoric that Obama did to get elected.

Difference is, they haven't changed their minds about it.

PB

[FrenchieCat]

31. Most of them aren't elected officials.

but why make this about Pres. Obama?

How does that help us....?
it's not like the election will be cancelled....

and it's not like a knight on a white horse will come down
from the heavens and win it all instead of one of the two parties....
just like that didn't happen in 1968 during that large protest.

In fact, there are quite a few at the protest carrying Ron Paul 2012 signs...
Does that mean that folks participating in this Wall Street protest all support Ron Paul?

[Poll_Blind]

34. Trouble making sense of your post and the various strange connections you're trying to make.

The OP stated they believed they could trust the protesters more than the occupants of the White House. I was just pointing out that Candidate Obama conveniently voiced many of the same popular opinions expressed by the protesters. President Obama, a different story...sadly. Those are his choices though. Choices have consequences.

:shrug:

PB

[FrenchieCat]

35. Yes, governing does have consequences....

One who governs can either win or lose the next election....
and that choice will be ours to make.

I just saw a video of Wall Street Protest signs,
and I don't see the anti-Obama sentiments that poster expressed...
although I'm sure as time goes on, those who can make it about him, will....
in an attempts to affect the elections.....like the LaRouche Ron Paul Supporters
who are now trying to hijack the OWS protest...although they don't believe in regulations,
but rather they are free market supporters. And yet, there are seen just about everywhere
in these protests the last couple of weeks.

Here's a video of some of the signs.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaihNYwXTeE

[tama]

47. This is not about Obama

specifically, but about all of the corrupt governement officials and the system of corruption. Obama is just one of "them", not more, not less.

[tama]

46. And Bush, the compassionate conservative

Partisan politics is professional lying and betraying.

[frazzled]

36. I bet they'd do a swell job ...

running all those complex government agencies and programs, meeting with foreign leaders, finessing those trillion dollar budgets, and figuring out how to keep Medicare, the FAA, the military, and a thousand other things going all at once.

Somehow, cardboard signs and a healthy distrust of Wall Street finance actually doesn't inspire confidence in me that they could run a government. Oh, I forgot. The aim of many of them is to abolish government.

Let's get this straight: I am all for bringing attention to the bad practices of Wall Street and its undue influence (as if we needed anyone to point that out for us). If more public awareness comes from this (which I kind of doubt) that will be a good thing. But that doesn't make the protesters more deserving of our confidence than ... confidence to do WHAT, exactly, anyway?

[Amonester]

45. Don't take anything posted on any message board too seriously.

I don't. Anyone can post anything. It doesn't make what they post an immediate reality.

[tama]

48. To learn self-confidence

as individuals and communities and participants in biosphere.

[EFerrari]

51. I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

If you took the administration and changed them out with the same number of random protesters, I'm pretty sure they'd do a better job because nobody owns them.

[girl gone mad]

54. Why wouldn't they do a swell job?

The most respected economist in the world was there yesterday. People from all walks of life with all types of knowledge are represented. People representing people, not corporate interests.

[pipi_k]

61. People think it's so easy

If they would do such a swell job, then why aren't they doing it already?

Why aren't they IN those positions, fighting from WITHIN to end corruption?


So people always think they can do someone else's job better. People always think that THEY would be immune from the same type of flaws that cause people to turn, ever so slowly, toward corruption.

All those people protesting on Wall Street and all over the country...they are the cream of the crop. Pure as the driven snow. Honest to a fault.

I say bullshit.

I'll bet that a great many of them are just as dishonest and greedy as the execs on Wall Street are, only they just don't/won't admit it.


That's the trouble with getting rid of one thing in favor of another. You could end up with something better...or you could end up with something way worse than what you originally had. There are no guarantees.

Which isn't to say people shouldn't try. But there's going to be a whole lot of disappointment and disillusionment when people don't get what they want.

[girl gone mad]

66. Well, I know I would have done better than to appoint Larry Summers and Robert Rubin..

Obama put the very people who were responsible for the economic crisis back in charge of our economy. Disaster ensued.

I think my economic analysis over the past few years has been correct and I feel vindicated. During the TARP debates I warned that bailing out the banks in that manner would ultimately lead to the type of civil unrest that we are now seeing.

Your attitude is fairly cynical. There are good, smart, talented people who want to do the right thing and want an effective government. We thought we were electing such a person in 2008. That didn't work out, so now we've got to try to fix the system from the outside.

[TwilightGardener]

38. To do what?

[JDPriestly]

49. Well said!

[Whats_Happening]

55. As much as Obama may have disappointed me, I still trust him more than

a bunch of trustafarian hipsters and red-diaper babies and grandbabies, which is all that the Wall Street protests have been so far, at least as much as I have been able to tell. :shrug:

[SOS]

64. 700 red-diaper hipsters arrive on Wall Street last Tuesday

[frankcjames]

57. I can sympathize with that thought n/t

[TBF]

58. Recommend. nt

[Generic Other]

59. Protesters strike a nerve

I also have confidence in protesters to stand for what they believe (and for what I believe). Their positions haven't wobbled like a flat tire as the White House's positions have.

[pipi_k]

62. So people should never change their positions on anything? n/t

[Generic Other]

68. Changing your position when you are wrong takes courage

Betraying your beliefs when you are right is a whole other matter.

[pecwae]

65. Kick and recced.

That one sentence sums it up nicely.