Can someone explain to me where Ron Paul fits into #OWS?

[Earth_First]

Disclaimer: NARPT (Not Another Ron Paul Thread)...

I've noticed a fair amount of Ron Paul support among the national #OWS organizing groups.

It's my understanding that Ron Paul wants to even further allow the free-market to self-regulate itself, leading to which essentially equates to corporate anarchism.

Can someone explain this to me?

:shrug:

[Skidmore]

1. Paul is trying to hijack protest from the right.

He should be asked to explain how his message fits in when it clearly doesn't.

[Luminous Animal]

10. I'm waiting for any kind of evidence that this is happening.

[MADem]

14. His "peeps" are all over these "Occupy" protests. The 'evidence' is in

the pictures that have been posted here and elsewhere with RP messages touted at the 'Occupy' sites.


Oh.....and then....there's THIS:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/185081-paul-offers-support-for-anti-fed-occupy-wall-street-protestors

[Luminous Animal]

16. Simply because there a few pictures of his peeps does not equal a fair amount

of support FROM #ows towards Ron Paul. Similarly, just because Ron Paul supports #ows does not mean that that #ows supports Ron Paul. I am against the Iraq war, so is Ron Paul and yet, somehow, I do not support Ron Paul!

I read the following sites everyday (the closest anyone could be to a national #ows organization of which there is no such critter):
www.occupywallst.org
http://nycga.cc/
www.occupytogether.org
http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/occupywallstreet

No mention of support for Ron Paul anywhere.

[MADem]

23. OWS doesn't support anything. It is made up of a shit load of people from all perspectives.

There are those ANONYMOUS bozos in the background, but they aren't directing the behaviors of the people who are at the various 'OCCUPY' sites, not just in that park in NY, but in other cities around the US.

All of the people who are camped out are not necessarily represented at those websites you are perusing. If you don't see RP people on those websites, you are in error to assume that means they are not present. Further, there are plenty of Ron Paul supporters at OCCUPY sites in other cities, in addition to NY. They are mentioned in most coverage of other cities, from SF to Syracuse, from Boston to LA.

So, your parsing and feigned naivete notwithstanding, there ARE Ron Paul cretins aligning themselves with this effort for their own purposes.

Google is your friend. Get cracking. You'll figure it out. They're turning up at all the sites.

Here, let me get you started: http://www.dailypaul.com/181040/ron-paul-supporters-show-up-to-occupy-la

Start reading about the other locations, and you'll find that the RP people are there as well.

[Luminous Animal]

35. I am not denying that some Ron Paul cretins are showing up. I am asking for evidence that

that there is a fair amount of support FOR RON PAUL from #ows national organizations. That is the entire premise of the OP. The OP. THE OP.

Your link to Ron Paul's PR slop reveals nothing.
Ron Paul's headline: Ron Paul supporters show up to Occupy L.A. ...

then quotes the LA Weekly article (which estimates a low 750 turnout) which states that there were a handful of Ron Paul supporters several who held up signs.


Oh, and here is the Google News result for "Ron Paul" occupy:
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ron+paul%22+occupy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vzD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsuo&source=lnms&tbm=nws&ei=BEuKTuKWEqW3sQLmqsipBA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=5&ved=0CBgQ_AUoBA&biw=1135&bih=604

Not much there.

[Earth_First]

52. Yet, I clarified a typo downthread, and you keep ignoring the edit...

You'd much rather keep blathering about THE OP. THE OP.

[Luminous Animal]

55. I posted the above a half an hour before you posted your edit.

Your edit was at 5:38 PM. My response that you are complaining about was at 5:11.

It is not my fault that you showed up to late to edit your OP. And it is not my fault that I misinterpreted the meaning of the OP because of YOUR ERROR.

Perhaps you could ask the mods to take down the whole damn thing and repost what you actually mean.

[MADem]

59. Go use GOOGLE with the proper search terms. I'm not going to put

you on my knee and read the paper to you. "Ron Paul" occupy is going to get you Ron Paul complaining about occupying armies, like as not. Try reading the material relative to the sites where demonstrations are taking place. In order to do that, you've got to do some looking and find out where the demonstrations are, like LA, Boston, Syracuse, etc.

No one averred that they were "critical mass" but there have been enough of them to be NOTICED and MENTIONED in most of the coverage. That can't be said for the Communists, Socialists or some of the other small fry.

[Luminous Animal]

62. You made the claim it is up to you to prove it. The best you could come up with is weak R Paul PR.

And I wouldn't get within 3000 miles of your knee. And fortunately, that is roughly the distance between us.

[MADem]

63. No, it's not up to me to prove it. You REALLY want to know? You know how to read.

Get off your ass and google, instead of nitpicking people for links you can find your lazy self.

Unless what you really want is an internet pissyfight, and it's becoming increasingly clear by your conduct that this is EXACTLY what you desire.

Lucky me, that you are that far away! Allah is indeed merciful.

[Luminous Animal]

18. Oh, and the LaRouche people hang around, too. Will you also claim that #ows thinks

that Obama equals Hitler?

Here are oodles and oodles of pics from occupywallst and occupywallstreet

http://twitpic.com/tag/occupywallst?page=1
http://twitpic.com/tag/occupywallstreet

I can wait for you to all of those pictures that prove his peeps are all over these Occupy protests.

[MADem]

24. OWS does not "think" anything. It's a mishmash of people from all perspectives.

Just because the assclowns with the internet connection are saying something, that doesn't mean that everyone camped out in the park AGREES with them.

Sheesh. Stop with the sillyness.

[Luminous Animal]

31. Sheesh. I should have said, "fair amount of support".

What assclowns are you referring to? Ron Paul assclowns? The #ows assclowns in my links? The assclowns at The Hill? Clearly, I am confused (and thus silly) so I'll bow out of this discussion and do something useful like take out the recycling.

[MADem]

57. The ones who refuse to say who they are, who use stupid phrases like "Expect Us." .

Childishly dramatic.

The ones who are bullying people and threatening to take down their websites while wearing "Time Warner Corporation" masks.

The ones attempting to lead the easily led.

It wouldn't be so funny if it was Elizabeth Warren's website--and some day, it just might be.

Sometimes I wonder if these guys aren't a fantastic FBI/CIA counterintelligence group, because that is what they smell like to me.

[Luminous Animal]

58. Of course they do, dear.

[MADem]

60. I am not your "dear," dear. nt

[Skidmore]

21. And there appears to be a few DUers who are smitten with him too

lately.

[tblue]

2. Oh goodness. There's no fit that I can see, except maybe end the wars.

I don't get it either.

[PeaceNikki]

3. His weird supporters really have no clue what he's about. They're ignorant fools who think

he's a Libertarian. They're very wrong.

[TeamsterDem]

7. I agree that they and he are ignorant, but isn't he actually a libertarian?

I'm not being sarcastic or anything. I'm genuinely curious. I thought he was the embodiment of libertarian garbage. :shrug:

[PeaceNikki]

12. He claims to be but he's not.

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ASUT_enUS433US433&aq=0&oq=ron+paul+is+not+a+l&gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ron+paul+is+not+a+libertarian

[TeamsterDem]

15. Hmm interesting stuff, some of it

I think in today's politics, though, we kind of have what I'll call "comparative embodiments" which is to say that, as compared to Ron Paul, Obama is a "liberal," although in relation to the progressive/liberal movement Obama is anything but. Using that standard, I think Ron Paul is comparatively libertarian, although I don't necessarily disagree with the points made contradicting that. But it does seem to me that a guy promoting the idea that there should be no drug laws, no regulations, and no foreign interventions can be reasonably called libertarian.

Then again I wholly disagree with libertarian ideology so I guess I don't really care either way. :)

[PeaceNikki]

19. This link is my favorite analysis of it

http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/08/06/authoritarian-or-libertarian-ron-paul-on-churchstate-separation-secularism.htm

[TeamsterDem]

22. Well, I still remain unconvinced that he's not a libertarian

But I respect your views.

Again, it's not like I'm suggesting "hey, he's a libertarian so that means he's great!" Actually I despise both Ron Paul's and the libertarian ideologies, so whether he's part of the latter or just on his own is irrelevant (to me) in terms of his likability. I can't stand the guy no matter which camp he calls home. :D

[PeaceNikki]

27. lol, hence his "weird" following. He's not a libertarian and not a Republican.

He's some strange hybrid that has now reproduced. They both have creepy, weird, uninformed cult-like followers and I want to scream when I see Democrats or liberals of any flavor giving him 'props'. Fuck that guy. And his son. :D

[TeamsterDem]

28. LOL please don't use the word "hybrid" with reference to Paul ...

I rather like the (vehicular) hybrids and don't want to form an accidental mental association between the Ron Paul hybrids and the hybrid vehicles. LOL

You're so right about Dems and "liberals" who follow him. I've talked to some of them and it really just boggles the mind, especially when they start discussing their reasons. I've not yet met one who makes a logically-complete, thorough, and sensible argument for a Paul presidency. Instead it's usually along the lines of "I should be able to smoke weed without government interference, and since that form of government interference is bad we should really get the government off our backs." WTF? I can honestly say that I've never in my life had the government "on my back," so I'm always curious when I hear how I really should be in a movement to remove something which isn't there. LOL

And yeah, his son is also a real "prize." :rofl:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

25. THIS

Although there are some who think they are liberals and support him.

He's the default "cool politician who's not really a politician" for the hipster crowd who'd be horrified if they would put down the fucking weed for one second to know what he really stands for.

[TeamsterDem]

26. LOL indeed

Loved the "put down the fucking weed" part. Totally agreed.

:fistbump:

[FarLeftFist]

30. Meanwhile, the guy is a goddamn career politician. A HYPOCRITE!

[Luminous Animal]

32. Huh? Do you know any hipsters? And if so, how many of them are Ron Paul supporters?

[Major Nikon]

34. I know a few

They have been on the Ron Paul kick for many years, most likely because of his support of legalizing marijuana and because you pretty much have to be smoking the stuff to get on board with most of the rest of his nutty ideas.

[Luminous Animal]

37. Maybe it is a regional thing. No self-respecting urban hipster would ally

themselves with Ron Paul for any reason. I don't smoke pot but I find your gratuitous did at pot smokers nostalgic for my syphilitic old grandpaw.

[Major Nikon]

43. More of a dig on Paul

I could care less if someone smokes pot. More power to them. I support fully legalizing it myself.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

47. I agree.....

....I really think we should be making money off of it.....the "put down the fucking weed" thing was for the folks who've proven they are clouding their judgement with it backing Paul.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

40. I have a half dozen friends I consider hipsters.....

Three of them throw the name "Ron Paul" around and don't know a goddamn thing of what he stands for other than he's "not a corporate puppet". Two of them totally buy into the Alex Jones bullshit too that everything is a conspiracy. Now the third is Jewish who strongly supports Israel, and claims Paul is the candidate "most willing to protect them", but can't provide any reasons why he thinks that. And yes, they all love his stand on pot because THAT is the single biggest issue in this country to them.

[Luminous Animal]

45. Like I said to Major Whatever up thread, the definition must be a regional thing

Any urban hipster wouldn't be caught dead in a Ron Paul halloween costume. Everything about him is an anathema to them. Of course, in most urban centers, there are plenty of good reasonable caring people aren't cretins who are advancing the legalization of pot more than Ron Paul ever could.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

49. Well, what's your definition?

Maybe I am off, but what do you define as a hipster?

[Luminous Animal]

54. Outliers who reject mass produced clothing, entertainment, art, fashion, music, etc.

Mostly young (in their 20s and early 30s), mostly creative or supportive of independent creative arts. They value independent and critical thinking. The definition of hipster really hasn't changed. In the original hipsters were the 1940s jazz aficionados. Then came the Beats, then the hippies, followed by the punks. Then we had the long slow decline of young hipsters having any kind of influence on popular culture. Fortunately, I've witnessed an emergence of a new generation of hipters (who Levi's, Urban Outfitters, and American Apparel try to emulate but fall short in so many pathetic ways). The kids who are the major force behind the occupy movement are hipsters.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Because it is all about imagery for the Ron Paul Supporters......

not substance. They believe they are a protest movement,
and by golly, they will march in the protests, no matter the cause,
I suspect.

[Vincardog]

5. there are some TEA BAGGERS joining it the OWS movement and they do not know what to think till FOX

SnewZ tells them what to think

[valerief]

6. Maybe via OWS, his supporters can be enlightened. nt

[Capn Sunshine]

8. If Ron Paul and th libertarians want true free market life, I suggest Somalia or even Mexico

Why aren't they singing the praises of these free market paradises? Money and the forces that covet/have it are the prime movers in each one of these societies. Mexico used to be a proud democracy, but no longer I'm sad to say.

[Luminous Animal]

9. What National #OWS organizing groups. Links please?

[Gregorian]

11. His anti-war costume fools those who don't see his full porfolio of tricks.

[Luminous Animal]

13. No evidence that there any kind of support for Ron Paul let alone a fair amount

of support from any national #OWS group. (And, by the way, there are no "national" #ows groups.)

[FarCenter]

17. Establishment capitalists, government, military are opposed by socialists, libertarians, pacifists

There are various anti-establishment groups corresponding to the various parts of the establishment.

However, each anti-establishment group may not be against all of the other parts of the establishment.

[krabigirl]

29. Yep.

[librechik]

20. somebody told me he's bringing the pot n/t

[Puregonzo1188]

33. It's simple. Paul has some sort of anti-establishment vibe, for whatever reason I don't know, and as

a result other people seeking some sort of anti-establishment figure gravitate towards him. It's not ideologically coherent at all.

[Luminous Animal]

36. So do you have evidence to support the OPs claim that there is a fair amount of support

for Ron Paul amongst #ows?

Because I can find no evidence of that support for Ron Paul and the OP hasn't answered my question.

[Puregonzo1188]

38. I am not sure what qualifies as fair amount. When I was at OWS there were maybe

four of them. I saw more anarcho-syndicalist flags and kaffiyehs than Ron Paul signs.

There are a few of them there, but the ones that I heard speak on the open mic which just kooky people who were into every conspiracy theory imaginable (Hitler invented fluoride, the FDA is trying to kill your children) than concrete supporters of Ron Paul.

I think Ron Paul supporters and Ron Paul can't always assume to being the same.and it's even hard to make generalizations about Ron Paul supporters. It's a weird and I don't entirely get his appeal with some people, but I think it's the anti-establishment thing and the complete lack of any meaningful left in the US. I can't help but feel like some of these Ron Paul people if they were alive 50 years earlier would have been carrying the Little Red Book.

[Luminous Animal]

42. Ah that's good. I thought you were agreeing with the OP that there was a

fair amount of support from #ows national organizations. There are no national #ows organizations, by the way.

[Puregonzo1188]

44. Yes, yes--I know all OWS--I was there the first day and had 20+ friends arrested on the Brooklyn

Bridge.

I don't get the DU fixation with Ron Paul, but I was trying to explain how Ron Paul supporters fit into the OWS, though I really wouldn't pay that much attention to them.

Like I said there were more anarcho-syndicalist there than RPers.

[Luminous Animal]

50. I am glad that the anarcho-syndicalists outnumbered RPers. Very glad.

And good luck to your friends.

I've sent monetary support to OWSNYC in the past but I've recently switched to San Francisco. They need everything and I live here.

[Earth_First]

46. "There are no national #ows organizations" is semantics, really...

There are many, many groups organizing in solidarity with #ows

You seem pretty vicious on talking me down this evening, how come?

[Luminous Animal]

48. I asked for evidence that there was a fair amount of support for Ron Paul.

How is that taking you down?

By the way, many #ows organizations have their own General Assemblies and are not taking the lead from NYC. This is as it should be.

[Earth_First]

51. ...and I did exactly that.

You have a distinct aire of know-it-all-sim to you, you demonstrated that not only on me up upthread as well.

Perhaps you should take out the recycling...

[Luminous Animal]

56. You did nothing of the sort. The best you did was admit that your OP contained an error

which changed the meaning entirely.

I did take out the recycling. It was nice, it is raining a little and it smells great outside.

[Earth_First]

39. There is one VERY vocal supporter in the OccupyRochester group...

proud2BlibKansan posted this from OccupyKansasCity:



The Ron Paul Los Angeles group showed up at OccupyLA:

http://www.dailypaul.com/181040/ron-paul-supporters-show-up-to-occupy-la

There is one highly conspiratorial website (which I wont link to, but think Alex Jones...) in which it is suggested that they 'hijack OccupyWallStreet...

Here's a Facebook event page encouraging a Ron Paul rally at Zucotti Park

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=143389702420661

I could probably find many more around the country, but YES it is happening that the Ron Paul supporters are infiltrating the #OWS effort...

If you feel that I am claiming that #OWS is supporting Ron Paul, no, I do not believe that, and if I need to clarify my original post, I will.

[Earth_First]

41. On edit: I can see where you called me out...

"I've noticed a fair amount of Ron Paul support among the national #OWS organizing groups."

That should have read SUPPORTERS, not support indicating #OWS sanctioning political support of Ron Paul.

Unfortunately, the editing period for the OP has expired...

[Luminous Animal]

53. I'm glad that you recognize the error in your OP but I just do not see

a few Ron Paul supporters showing up with their very narrow and typical right wing agenda (and it is narrow) and having much influence over the discussions and strategy at these events. Especially the larger ones where Ron Paul's stance on nearly every issue is precisely what #ows rejects. Even Ron Paul PR reveals that only a handful of his supporters showed up in LA.

A few Ron Paul supporters may be successful (like Moonies) to convince a few to join their cult and some of the very small & weak #ows org may end up out numbered by Ron Paul supporters but I honestly cannot see his piddling org having the resources and the intelligence and the counter-economic message to take over #owseverywhere.

[lib2DaBone]

61. I don't think he does...

Some Ron Paul protestors did show up at the OWS protest...

Although they were not attacked.. the were not accepted.. and kind of faded away.

[MisterP]

64. he's for unbridled capitalism but against Big Business

and no, he doesn't think that's a contradiction: they'll tell you that it's not TRUE capitalism--it's the "unknown ideal" because it's never been accomplished (because it's a fucking impossibility, you nits)

it's called "producerism"--a bourgeois, get-off-my-property copy of Marxist emphasis on producers (except here they're the "productive" middle class and retailers that employees and banks sponge off, supposedly)

[inna]

65. his anti-war and anti-Federal Reserve positions, I'd guess nt