All this Steve Jobs love makes me sick.

[RegieRocker]

He was not part of the 99%. He made most of his product in China with slave labor and wages. Makes my head spin.

[Ichingcarpenter]

1. Thank you Steve Balmer for your input

Let it go dude.

[RegieRocker]

4. Get a clue. He or Bill Gates is not part of the 99% either.

[musette_sf]

81. +1

for reference to Ballmer, ew.

[jefferson_dem]

106. Ha.

+1.

[RegieRocker]

2. post error

[Big Blue Marble]

3. Perhaps that says more about you

then it's says about him.

[RegieRocker]

6. It says only much about you.

[Ellipsis]

12. I know you are but what am I

[RegieRocker]

21. I thought that was you Pewee Herman

I could tell.

[Sherman A1]

109. indeed

:thumbsup:

[Hello World]

5. All this Steve Jobs Hate and ENVY makes me sick

:puke:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hfojvt]

35. "The envious ones say that, George, the suckers."

"Now take this depression. You and I were the only ones who kept our heads. You saved the Building and Loan, and I saved all the rest."

"Most people say, you STOLE all the rest."

"The envious ones say that, George, the suckers."

"It's a Wonderful Life"

[meegbear]

13. WINDOWS SUX!!1! GET A MAC!!!1

When Gates you'll be pissing on his grave saying my glad you are he's dead.

[Mr Deltoid]

45. Both suck

Go linux/Unix

[Wait Wut]

172. Wow.

I actually almost threw up my lunch.

Got any gum?

[Wait Wut]

169. Bullshit

I've been using Macs for almost 30 years. I will admit that I curse Gates when I have to use Word or some other inferior product, but I have never hated the man. I've also surrounded myself with other Mac Addicts and I don't know ONE that would ever gloat over the death of Bill Gates. Gates is a good man. I don't know any other Mac user that would say otherwise.

Using that reasoning for your own hatred of Steve Jobs is sick.

And, yes...Windows does suck. Get a Mac. :hi:

[Mr Deltoid]

42. All this Steve Jobs corporate product worship makes me sick

[chillspike]

93. You think the iPad, a device which frees up people to be creative,

is a corporate product?

If I want to be a musician I don't need to depend on the right musical chemistry with others or expensive musical intstruments or pay for expensive studio time. All I need is an iPad and GarageBand.
Same thing with being an artist.
Same thing with learning a language.
Same thing with designing architecture.
Same thing with photography.

It goes on and on.

What Jobs has done for the Arts is phenomenal.

I don't think Jobs ever made a "corporate product" in his life.

[Solomon]

120. okay if you really believe that thats making

Music.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

162. Get a real musical instrument and learn on that, not Guitar Hero.

Or any other program.

If you want to be a real musician. I've been a real musician for fifty years, playing real instruments.

[ElboRuum]

166. If you weren't creative without it...

...you'll never be creative with it.

[Elwood P Dowd]

7. Apple's big three of Steve Jobs, Tim Cook (new CEO), and Al Gore all supported Obama.

If you don't like Apple, then go buy stuff from republican run companies like Dell or HP.

[RegieRocker]

9. I custom build my own thank you.

So the company I buy from is me. The 99% democrat.

[Elwood P Dowd]

16. Can you build a laptop better than my MacBook?

Can you build an MP3 player better than my iPod?

[RegieRocker]

19. Ok lol what is so special about your MacBook and iPod

go on enlighten me?

[Elwood P Dowd]

26. Enlighten me. Can you build a better laptop that beats the MacBook?

I have to have a laptop, and I gave up on Windoze bullshit years ago. If I need Windoze bullshit, the MacBook can at least run it with no problems. How many Windoze laptops can run OS 10.6 or 10.7 ?

As for what is so special, since I switched back in the 1990s I have never had a major problem with a single Apple product purchased. The customer support has been fantastic, the resale value when upgrade time comes is better, and best of all........I NO LONGER HAVE TO PUT UP WITH WINDOZE!

[Mr Deltoid]

53. Of course you can

Same hardware. Only difference is software, and almost any Linux version will run circles around any MAC.

Ever dealt with MAC customer support? lol, nightmarish.

[Elwood P Dowd]

64. I've dealt with it many times with zero problems. Just more BS and hate from the haters. (nm)

[RegieRocker]

147. Just more BS from the material worshipers.

I've owned a MAC. It was no f'ing big deal. Actually it was the worst computer I have ever owned. Couldn't upgrade it, repair operating system etc. Apple and Mac is for "push a button people". This however has nothing to do with my op. I would feel the same way about Bill Gates if and when that happens and the LOVE fest that would ensue.

[Hippo_Tron]

178. As somebody who used to be into computers, I get where you're coming from

I used to own a PC and did install new hardware, changed the operating system several times, wiped the hard drive clean and started over, and used all sorts of programs that probably wouldn't work on a MAC.

Somewhere along the line I ceased to care about computers themselves and only about the content I could consume and create using them. That's when I bought a Mac. It's a computer designed for people who want to just want to push a button and not give a second thought to the machine itself.

Yes, I'm glad I started out with a PC. Screwing around with it gave me a fundamental understanding of computers that I wouldn't have if I had started with the push a button Mac. But again, I've moved on to other interests.

[Hippo_Tron]

177. Really, I got my charger replaced with a five minute call and a trip to the Apple Store that day

Granted if there was no Apple store nearby or if I didn't want to go to one, that may have been more of a pain in the ass for all I know. But frankly I'd rather go to the store than wait for my new part to come in the mail.

[SomethingFishy]

174. I like both PC and Mac they both have strong points

I am writing this on a Macbook. Unlike most people I see the good in both systems. If you hate computers, if you don't like to tinker with things, if you are not electronically clever then by all means get a Mac. If you can afford it. It rarely crashes, it's easy to use, and stays reliable for years. However, if you like to tinker, if you like to see just how badass you can tweak a machine, if you are on a budget, and if you play games.. get a PC. Pretty simple. No need for all this one up bullshit.

Let me remind you about something. Windoze as you call is has to be able to run on an infinite combination of hardware configurations. OSX only has to run on a Mac. Do you really think that if Microsoft started demanding the exact same hardware in every single PC sold on the planet that they could not come up with an OS as stable as OSX?

[Mr Deltoid]

47. I can buy a better MP3 player than your iPod for abourt $25

[Ellipsis]

58. You can buy one now for 25$, But quality, don't think so... try getting support for that by the way.

I do agree with you on Apple's support. What a nightmare it can be for a retail product support.

[Elwood P Dowd]

62. I call bullshit on that.

I still have my first iPod from 8 years ago. It's been dropped, rained on, stepped on, and generally put through the ringer for years, yet it keeps putting out the tunes. Those cheapies rarely last a year before they're in the garbage dump.

[Mr Deltoid]

65. My wife went through 3 or 4 iPods before I lured her back into the light

[Elwood P Dowd]

67. Sure she did. How many did your dog eat? Haters love making up shit. (nm)

[Mr Deltoid]

71. After her iPod debacle she went through a couple ZUNEs

They were even more expensive and irritating than the iPods were.

Calling me a liar, are you?

:):)

[Obamanaut]

83. And all with components/cases/etc made in the USA too, huh. nt

[twitcher]

171. Really?

Where are the parts that you use to build your computer manufactured?

[Ellipsis]

8. Don't confuse love for respect.

[RegieRocker]

15. Respect?

For what? Making his products overseas? Taking advantage of cheap labor and allowing extreme working hours with low wage?

[Ellipsis]

18. You mean Ireland? Your just baiting...

[RegieRocker]

23. LOL not you again

I thought you knew all about apple? You're funny. Ireland. Great googily moogily.

[Ellipsis]

33. Ah... your just acting the maggot, indeed Cork Ireland

Cork is the European headquarters of Apple Inc. where over 1,800 staff are involved in manufacturing, R&D and customer support

[RegieRocker]

124. That's poppy cock and they don't build crap.

That manufacturing is 1% in the landscape of Apple! Lol like I said you're a riot.

[Ellipsis]

127. Your right they don't.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Right, because all the other computer makers make their products in Kansas--

NOT.

[TBF]

111. I would agree with this -

For me hatred of the system does not include hating individuals just by extension. Some may disagree with me and I accept that. I guess I had respect for him because he was an adopted kid who didn't grow up with money, dropped out of college, and started his company in his garage. He remained liberal throughout his life - unlike most of today's techie billionaire libertarians.

I just view someone like that differently than a Bill Gates (who happens to be related to me if you go back enough generations - we have a common ancestor). I'd be much happier to claim Steve Jobs as a family member than Gates. Just my two cents.

[Hugabear]

10. Don't you fucking get it. Apple = Good. Walmart = BAD.

See, it's okay that Apple takes advantage of cheap Chinese labor, you see, because their stuff is cool, and it's not cheap to buy.

Walmart, on the other hand, is evil, because they take advantage of cheap Chinese labor, but their stuff is not cool, and it's cheap to buy.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RegieRocker]

17. Finally some sanity!

Thanks

[Kennah]

20. I'm grateful you didn't include a sarcasm tag, because you're spot on.

[Mudoria]

84. That nailed it down

[JVS]

89. It's cheap plastic crap from China vs good plastic crap from china, or at least conspicuously...

consumable plastic crap from China.


Totally different ballgame ;-)

[GliderGuider]

92. +3.14159265 /nt

[HappyMe]

102. Thank you!

It had to be said.



You can choose which corporations and 1%ers are included in the protest.

[workinclasszero]

155. I guess you figured it out

Just charge big money for your slave made goods and all is well, Steve Jobs what a guy! God bless the USA!:eyes:

Uh huh...

[Jamastiene]

163. Bingo!

You nailed it.

[wuushew]

22. The Mystery of Steve Jobs’s Public Giving

Despite accumulating an estimated $8.3 billion fortune through his holdings in Apple and a 7.4 percent stake in Disney (through the sale of Pixar), there is no public record of Mr. Jobs giving money to charity. He is not a member of the Giving Pledge, the organization founded by Warren E. Buffett and Bill Gates to persuade the nation’s wealthiest families to pledge to give away at least half their fortunes. (He declined to participate, according to people briefed on the matter.) Nor is there a hospital wing or an academic building with his name on it.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/the-mystery-of-steve-jobss-public-giving/

[GoddessOfGuinness]

46. It's a mystery, thus we can neither praise him for his generosity, nor condemn him for being stingy

I concur with the OP regarding Job's use of slave labor. And while it can set an example for the guys with the mega bucks to establish charitable funds or donate to them; I doubt that most of them do this from kindness. Being overt about one's generosity serves as a great publicity stunt, not to mention free advertising.

It's possible that Jobs gave without concern for being recognized. That is, after all, the noblest sort of donation.

But, there's really no point in conjecturing.

[Safetykitten]

24. It is rather sickening. The double standards are galactic.

[wickerwoman]

25. Could we possibly wait for the corpse to cool

before we drag out the Apple v PC bullshit?

There's a hell of a lot worse people out there than Steve Jobs and pancreatic cancer is a miserable bitch of a way to go out.

Is a little respect for the guy's memory too much to ask?

[bighart]

130. What defines being a"better" or "worse" person than Steve Jobs?

[RegieRocker]

136. Normally yes. I do not respect those who profit from

the blood, sweat and tears from others without giving them a fair share. Steve Jobs did not do all of it by himself. Many others were involved through the years and probably contributed more than he did. Distributed wealth is what was missing from the top down. This has nothing to do with pc bullshit. Only in your mind. If Bill Gates died today and everyone started a love fest I would feel the same way. Anthony Hopkins said it well in The Edge "Never feel sorry for a man that owns a jet plane".

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hfojvt]

28. we just love selective members of the top 1%

Oprah, Tiger Woods, Matt Damon, Matt Groening, Obama, Aaron Rogers, KeithO, Rachel, etc., etc.

And it's only fair. A person is not evil just because he/she has made a bunch of money. Plus, I am typing this on a Chinese made computer, and have a Chinese made bicycle. If making stuff in China makes a person evil, then certainly buying stuff made in China must be just as evil. And you know, I do not own an ipod. I own a Philips MP3 player that I bought at Wal-mart. I will let you guess where it was made (hint, it starts with the letter C and rhymes with Edina).

So, I, myself, cannot cast aspersions at people who make stuff in China.

[donheld]

41. Obama is part of the 1%?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zinnisking]

142. $2 million puts you in the top 1%?

I don't think so.


ETA:

I assumed multibillionaires were the top 1%.

Evidently I was wrong.

"The top one percent of Americans have an average income of $1.5 million."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/03/334156/top-five-wealthiest-one-percent/

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?Docid=2977&DocTypeID=7

[hfojvt]

160. depends on how you define it

I use IRS stats, which, in 2007 had those making over $388,000 in the top 1% http://www.koch2congress.com/5.html

IRS stats are somewhat problematic for two reasons though. Fist, because teenagers with jobs often file tax returns. My 17 year old nephew might have an income of $6,000 but he's really not part of the bottom 50%, but he, and perhaps millions of others would be measured that way by IRS stats. The other part is an unknown number of couples who live together but are not married, or secondly are married filing separately. A husband who makes $30,000 and wife who makes $40,000 who file separately are going to show up in the stats as two hoouseholds making under $40,001 when in reality they are one household making $70,000.

Those two things would seem to skew the stats down, making the bottom 50% look bigger than it is. The census bureau shows only 1.5% of households with income over $250,000 in 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States but I do not know what their methodology is. I sorta wonder how do 2.6 million households survive on less than $2,500 in income. I don't really see any way (even though I did it myself for probably three years (one I was living in a trailer in the woods off of my savings and the other two years I had my own business paying most of my living expenses (but still not providing a positive net income. Still, are 2.6 million households really living like this in any given year? And in the 2nd case, I really had more income than the official report.)

[zinnisking]

161. Interesting.

In your links above, and mine also, they are measuring annual income rather than net worth.

What I'm wondering is is someone who is worth a couple million dollars one of the top 1% of affluent Americans.

[hfojvt]

164. I consider income to be more relevant than net worth

Also, find it hard to find stats for net worth. According to the 2002 census of wealth, 8.5% of all families had a net worth of over $500,000.

Those on the Forbes 400 now are all billionaires. It used to be that non-billionaires made the list, but now I think there may be some people who are billionaires, but not rich enough to be on Forbes 400.

To me, though an income of $5 million is worth far more than a net worth of even $10 million. If the latter person gets a whopping 8% return on his/her wealth then they will net an income of $800,000 a year. However, a person who makes $5 million in income, brings home about $3 million after taxes. They can live pretty large on $500,000 and bank the other $2.5 million. As such, they will catch up to the $10 millionaire PDQ

year 0 - 10 - 0
year 1 - 10.8 - 2.5
year 2 - 11.7 - 5.2
year 3 - 12.6 - 8.1
year 4 - 13.6 - 11.3
year 5 - 14.7 - 14.7
year 6 - 15.9 - 18.4
year 7 - 17.2 - 22.4

[zinnisking]

150. I seriously doubt all those people are in the top 1%.

ETA:

I stand corrected.

I've read a little about the rich and the super rich and I assumed multibillionaires were the top 1%.

"The top one percent of Americans have an average income of $1.5 million."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/03/334156/top-five-wealthiest-one-percent/

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?Docid=2977&DocTypeID=7

[housewolf]

30. Get a clue. The lovefest is about his vision and creatvity

He brought inspiration to millions of people. He led the world into a new level of personal technology. He was a great visionary.

That's what he'll be remembered for.

Personally, I think he deserved to be one of the top 1%. I celebrate that.

And would I prefer that his company's products be made in the USA? Yes, I would. But the fact that his company made that decision doesn't negate his value, in my mind.

[mod mom]

98. +1

[RegieRocker]

133. Vision and creativity?

One man did it all. Yep.

[Firebrand Gary]

31. Hate the game NOT the player.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Capitalocracy]

44. Good point.

I'm not coming down on either side about this one, btw. It's true that that's just the way things are done these days, and with all corporations, whether you like their image or their product or whatever in general, it's the exception rather than the rule when they go out of their way to put ethics over profits, and some even pretend to do so without actually doing it.

It would've been nice if Jobs had focused more on changing the world, and used his influence to promote ethical business, and I would be mourning a lot more if he were that person. But that's no reason, I think, to pee in the Cheerios of those who do remember him fondly for the person he was, rather than begrudging him the person he wasn't.

I mean, I'm hoping my tombstone will say something nicer than "He ate dairy and eggs even though he knew being vegan was better, and supported slave labor because he didn't have the knowledge and/or money to buy sweatshop-free products. Here lies a total d-bag."

[Tx4obama]

34. After resuming control of Apple in 1997, Steve Jobs eliminated all corporate philanthropy programs

I just read about that today. and still can't get over the fact that Jobs didn't do squat regarding philanthropy projects.

Seems to be a HUGE difference between Steve Jobs and Bill Gates who has spent TONS and TONS of his money on helping the less fortunate among us in the world.

-----------

SNIP

Last year the founder of the Stanford Social Innovation Review called Apple one of "America's Least Philanthropic Companies." Jobs had terminated all of Apple's long-standing corporate philanthropy programs within weeks after returning to Apple in 1997, citing the need to cut costs until profitability rebounded. But the programs have never been restored.

Unlike Bill Gates - the tech world's other towering figure - Jobs has not shown much inclination to hand over the reins of his company to create a different kind of personal legacy. While his wife is deeply involved in an array of charitable projects, Jobs' only serious foray into personal philanthropy was short-lived. In January 1987, after launching Next, he also, without fanfare or public notice, incorporated the Steven P. Jobs Foundation. "He was very interested in food and health issues and vegetarianism," recalls Mark Vermilion, the community affairs executive Jobs hired to run it. Vermilion persuaded Jobs to focus on "social entrepreneurship" instead. But the Jobs foundation never did much of anything, besides hiring famed graphic designer Paul Rand to design its logo. (Explains Vermilion: "He wanted a logo worthy of his expectations.") Jobs shut down the foundation after less than 15 months.

SNIP

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/02/news/companies/elkind_jobs.fortune/index4.htm

[Ichingcarpenter]

37. Bill Gates? LOL... Monsanto, Charter Schools , buying Africa

Don't even get me started with that asshole repulican

[Tx4obama]

43. So you don't want to talk about ALL THE GOOD THINGS The Gates Foundation has done?

Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. I've documented enough on DU on that foundation

to show that its self serving and nefarious.

You got your blinders on.

[Tx4obama]

63. Well the original point was ...

The Gates' have spent tons of money on humanitarian projects - I never said that all of the projects went well - bottom line is they put an effort into it.
And that The Jobs' haven't spent tons of their money trying to do good.

That's all.

[wuushew]

66. the anti-malaria work is all a scam?

the burden of proof is on you. Is Buffet a conspirator in this plot as well?

[Ellipsis]

54. Wasn't Melinda really the force behind the foundation?

I'm not knocking it by the way.


Just sayin,


any way 'night.

[Mr Deltoid]

60. No

[Tx4obama]

68. Here's a link with some info ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation

[BoWanZi]

125. All three of my children went to University because they got Gates Achievers scholarships

If it wasn't for them, who knows how they would have gone to school, I sure as hell could not afford to send them.

[Missy Vixen]

138. They're currently destroying the American public school system

That foundation also serves as a gigantic tax write-off.

Don't kid yourself.

[Mr Deltoid]

59. Gates has donated tens of billions to Charity

And he is a Democrat. He is also a predatory monopolist.

[Elwood P Dowd]

77. He has NOT donated tens of billions. There is not one single living person in the USA

that has donated tens of billions of dollars to charity. When are you going to stop with the hyperbole on this thread?

[wuushew]

80. 28 billion is a large sum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_gates#Philanthropy

[Safetykitten]

38. "He wanted a logo worthy of his expectations."....Pretty much sums him up.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drbtg1]

119. I don't recall Apple being in great shape back then (I could be wrong)

Wasn't 1997 around the time Apple was really struggling and Microsoft actually invested about $150 million in Apple and thus helped keep Apple afloat? If so, I wouldn't expect a failing company back then to be doing a whole lot of charity.

Since then, of course, a different story.

[Poll_Blind]

36. You're just JEALOUS that Apple's Chinese employees have so much fun they get their own trampolines!

PB

[Ellipsis]

39. Duzy!

Take a bow.

[Safetykitten]

40. Oh boy....

[Rex]

48. Ouch!

I wonder how much he thought about the people that jumped out of his factories windows as he grew closer to death. How bad is life as a worker when you decide one day to kill yourself rather then work one more second?

RIP SJ.

[Elwood P Dowd]

52. That's Foxconn, not Apple.

They are Chinese contractors for dozens of companies around the globe including Microsoft, Dell, HP, Sony, Apple, and many others.

[Poll_Blind]

61. BBC: Apple boss defends conditions at iPhone factory

From the BBC:

Apple boss Steve Jobs has defended conditions at a Taiwanese electronics firm that produces the firm's popular iPhone, following a spate of suicides.

"Foxconn is not a sweatshop," he told a conference in the US.

Mr Jobs said that Apple representatives were working with Foxconn to find out why 10 workers had killed themselves at a factory in Shenzhen, China.

An eleventh worker recently died at another factory in northern China. In total, there have been 13 suicides and suicide attempts at Foxconn factories this year.

PB

[Elwood P Dowd]

82. Why don't you list the other companies that use the exact same factory?

It's amazing how haters like you select Apple when dozens of other companies, including those that make products that you own, use the same type contractor in China. The way our trade policies have evolved the past 20+ years, everything you own that is computer or phone related is manufactured by these type factories and contractors. If Apple hired a Chinese factory to build a single prototype of a new iPad and a single worker committed suicide, the news headlines would call it an Apple factory even though that factory manufactured 500,000 products a year for Microsoft.

[raouldukelives]

126. Exactly. Everyone else does it so it's OK

Why don't people get that?

[RegieRocker]

132. lol

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blueamy66]

128. we sell to foxconn....

I know who they CM for....don't think I own a thing that they build

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_Tires]

149. That's not even a *job* anymore, you're a prisoner or slave...

[Capitalocracy]

56. Powerful images. nt

[JVS]

90. Now that's what I call thinking different!

[workinclasszero]

151. The suicide nets for his slave workers are a fitting monument to Steve Jobs..

who died with 7 billion dollars in his bank account.

[The Gunslinger]

180. Perfect

I guess he couldn't have used 8 billion of that money to hire and pay American workers well. I don't rejoice in the man's death, but the man was no saint.

[TheWraith]

51. For the most part, I agree. But this is an asinine time to pick a fight.

Somebody died who for reasons you may or may not agree with, people mourn. Now is not really the time to go up and try to rub a pile of crap in their faces, even if it's partly true.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[coalition_unwilling]

69. All this fellating of Jobs as some sort of latter-day Guttenberg, while

total and complete silence about Fred Shuttlesworth. Shows where this country's and this board's priorities really are. Absolutely disgusting but typical.

[Ellipsis]

74. He WAS a latter-day Guttenberg.

He may have been was latter-day ass as well. I respect the achievement regardless.

As Fred Shuttlesworth and your post... it is its own OP.

[TK421]

148. This should have its own thread!

[Douglas Carpenter]

70. he lives in the hearts of all of those who truly believe

What we are witnessing is the power of charisma. We see it in politics, sports, business and even on a primary school playground.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

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[Douglas Carpenter]

73. well that too

[Poll_Blind]

78. +1

PB

[NYC Liberal]

76. Who the fuck cares what "percent" he was in? There are a LOT of great people

who are not in the "99%."

[Jim Warren]

79. Me too, brother

but ya gotta know you're smack dab in the middle of the consumer profile round these parts, right?

[a la izquierda]

85. Here's the thing.

I don't begrudge someone for being rich (I'm not suggesting you do). My uncle is rich and a Democrat. Jobs created a product that allows my nieces and nephews to pick up their Ipod Touch and "call" their cousins all over the country, without a computer. It's very cool.

He also had an interesting outlook on life and death. Not too many super wealthy people say death is "the single best invention."

Some of us can turn off politics for just a little while every day. I think it's what keeps us from losing our minds.

[begin_within]

86. So, I need to remind you that Steve Jobs worked for a salary of $1 per year.

How many CEOs would have done that?

Would you have done what he did for $1 per year?

[Fumesucker]

95. Apple was Jobs' "mind child" if you will..

He had enough money where it was meaningless beyond just keeping score and he came in to save his mind child's life.

Interestingly I had to Google to see whether Jobs had actual children, he has a daughter.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

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[LAGC]

121. Yeah, but how much were all his stock options and dividends during that time?

Hell, he only had to pay 15% tax on them, instead of the 35% he'd have to pay if he was paid an actual salary.

[pipi_k]

122. Yeah, I had a boss back in the 90s who tried that one on me

He used to love telling me that I made more than HE did.

Right.

He had a big ass Cadillac. I had a succession of trash cans on wheels that broke down once a month.

He owned a home in a rather elite suburb. I lived in a crappy little 3 room apartment in a complex with about 200 other people.

He took family vacations a few times a year...Florida, Yellowstone Park, Disney World, etc. Hotels, nice food. I got to go camping twice a year. In a tent. If I managed to pay my bills and not constantly overdraw my checking account for the fifth time that year.

I always wondered how my boss managed to do all those things on LESS than what I made. :eyes:


So I guess if Steve Jobs was only getting a salary of $1 per year, he must have been in even worse economic shape than I was 20+ years ago.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

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[frylock]

159. if i were worth 7 billion i'd go to work for free

[canetoad]

87. RegieRocker, most responses to your OP

Tell a sad, sad story about the state of DU and the deep down principles of people who profess to be on the side of workers.

I'm sorry Steve Jobs has died at a young age. Life goes on.

To those DUers who are so totally, personally invested in the life and times of Steve Jobs - I hope you get over your obviously deeply disturbing loss. I hope you can rise again, get straight back onto your keyboard, ipods, iphones and ipads and gloriously celebrate his life in companionship with your millions of world wide buddies who share a deep and everlasting techno-connection.

[RegieRocker]

154. Yes it does. Thanks

[JVS]

88. I agree.

[chillspike]

91. We all know he was a 1%er

But unlike the Wall Street assholes, at least people got a product in return that they could use to make their lives easier. As for the slave labor in China issue, yes, that is agreeably a problem. i myself once worked in a slave like factory. But I put myself there so technically I wasn't a slave. when I got tired of it, I quit. Doesn't make it right. Jobs should have put a stop to it and payed them livable and generous wages. But I can't just write off the guy as completely evil. I don't think he ever envisioned his Chinese workers would commit suicide.

[canetoad]

94. I don't see anyone writing him off as EVIL

And I fucking hate the way that word is freely used to describe anyone with a philosophy at odds with one's own.

Rich guy, unfortunately got cancer. Died. End of story.

Only goes to prove that all the money in the world can't stop rich guys from dying. Was he aware of the shocking conditions the Apple assemblers worked under? He was CEO, he made the decisions. He died rich.

[seabeyond]

96. doesnt make me sick, but certainly show the contradictions.... and more. nt

[Nye Bevan]

97. He's created a lot more jobs, and given a lot more to charity, than you ever will (nt)

[HappyMe]

105. I'll bet a bunch of 1%ers do that. nt

[LAGC]

118. He really didn't give much to charity.

That's kind of a interesting side-item often being over-looked: he wasn't much of a philanthropist at all.

[TheKentuckian]

157. I'm not much into the worship or grave dancing but trotting out this tired canard is sad

The freeper types use this same line all the time.

The Koch brothers created more jobs and have given more to charity than you ever will.

See how shitty and wealth worshiping that sounds?

Hell, Herman Cain has almost certainly given more money to charity and created more jobs than Mother Theresa and the Dali Lama combined. I wonder who has given more of themselves and the greater share of their resources?

This little argument is part of the reason things are so far off the rails now. Inherent in that barb is worship of the wealthy. In our present situation the hate is probably more conducive to changing the status quo than the idolizing.

[pintobean]

99. Yestrerday, above the OWS protesters

Apple stocks gained 5.75‎ to close at 378.25 per share.

[AngryOldDem]

100. Wow.

DU **never** disappoints.

[jefferson_dem]

107. Seriously! Sometimes I wonder if we're all just being punk'd.

:crazy:

[Locrian]

101. FINALLY

Finally somebody nails it.

The corporate leg humping worship of the "captains of industry" is revolting.

[closeupready]

103. K&R

nt

[SidDithers]

104. Too fucking bad...

Is your "Hide Thread" broken?

Sid

[pintobean]

108. Mine isn't. Is yours?

[SidDithers]

110. Nope, mine works fine...

Maybe it's only broken on the cheap-ass home made with Chinese components computer that the OP made himself.

Sid

[pintobean]

112. lol. good answer

I do think he has a point, though.

[canetoad]

114. In what regard

Do they differ from the cheap-ass home made with Chinese components in Apple products?

[Chorophyll]

113. Oh, get a grip.

The man's dead. Let it go for two minutes. Jeezus.

[hlthe2b]

115. Unrec....

Attention seeking BS.

[sfpcjock]

116. I don't love parts of it, like you, but I get how Jobs created a great "Startup".

A great startup that employs 47,000 people in and of itself.

The contrast, you may be aware, is Mitt Romney, Leveraged Buyout artist, who buys companies like Jobs created and strips them, fires thousands, and outsources the biggest parts of the victim company for fun and profit.

I also get that Jobs, the perfectionist, wanted to have "the whole supply chain" in one place in China with their slave labor situations because he wanted the highly technical employees with the best educations. It's wrong, but I get it. It must be changed, but to do it we have to get our country back first.

[Name removed]

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[sfpcjock]

156. That is the stated reason that our industries give for offshoring more:

once part of the supply chain moves out then the whole chain grows up in the foreign location. Once they build iPhone 1, they learn how to do the whole process, and the industry gives them version 2.0. I know it is really the wages, but this is what they claim. I'm not there so I can't say for sure.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

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[RegieRocker]

131. I joined the OWS and you can avoid that which I am sure you

will.

[hlthe2b]

134. Hardly... I participated last weekend & yet I still manage not to become a hateful

obsessive towards someone who has just died. Some of us can remain human while we strive for the change we seek. I challenge you to try to do the same. There is a problem when those most aligned with your attitudes are the Phelps clan. Think about it.

[RegieRocker]

143. A forgetful human? The thing that has happened and is still

happening is people are getting farmed. People are becoming rich from other peoples hard work. If Steve Jobs did it all by himself with no employees then I would give him respect. That fact is he did it by producing his products overseas with cheap and extreme working hours. I very much doubt any person got paid what they were worth. Go ahead and worship the guy. I however will not ever feel saddened by those who pass away and became wealthy from the backs of others without paying them 100% for their contribution. You obviously don't get it. People only get rich by the backs of others. The obsessiveness is those mourning him. That is why I posted this.

[hlthe2b]

146. I get that you are obsessively decrying someone who is dead...

So much that I truly pity you. As much as I hope that OWS movements can make a difference in the near future, it will not be the result of those who divert their attention. It will be those who maintain focus. Get a grip.

[RegieRocker]

152. I see that you are so obessessively filled with love

for a man that doesn't deserve it, that I pity you. No the OWS will only be successful if people understand that getting paid 100% for you contribution to a workplace is the key to it all. That the way one makes that much money is from taking from the hard work of others. That bankers produce nothing and take too much from us all. How about you love the worker for a change? You need to get a grip.

[hlthe2b]

153. Your own posts speak about you in a way that would make most cringe.

Nothing more devastating that anyone could say than what you post yourself. Sad...

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

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[RegieRocker]

179. I don't care what you think nor anyone else that loves the almighty

dollar and worships their idols.

[lynne]

123. I'm so sick of all this hate and envy -

- that it makes my head spin. Very small-minded attitudes.

Steve Jobs used some of that 1% clout to improve the lives of many people. Google> Jobs + California State Senate Bill 1395.

[workinclasszero]

129. I'm not celebrating the life of a toymaker to the rich

Who used slave labor to maximize his profits and drove his workers to suicide either.

Rise up 99% in China and the USA and the whole world!!!

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jun2010/foxc-j03.shtml

Foxconn suicides highlight China’s sweatshop conditions
By John Chan
3 June 2010

Most of the 13 workers who tried to kill themselves jumped from buildings because they were unable to bear the stress, alienation and humiliation they experience daily. They come from a second generation of migrant workers who, unlike their rural parents, have much higher expectations of urban life. They have access to the Internet and mobile phones and constantly see the vast new wealth that they help to create, but do not own.

Like other exporting companies, Foxconn’s basic monthly wage of 950 yuan ($US140) is in line with Shenzhen’s official minimum wage. Employees must work hours of overtime each day to make about 2,000 yuan to meet basic needs. Their harsh experiences go well beyond low wages. Foxconn recruits must undergo a course of “military training” to prepare them for the company’s industrial discipline.

[devilgrrl]

144. How evil do you actually think Steve Jobs was?

:eyes:

And who is worthy of mourning?

[closeupready]

145. The 2nd wealthiest man in history said, "The man who dies rich dies disgraced."

nt

[JuniperLea]

165. I'm disgusted with these threads...

Seriously.

[Electric Monk]

175. iBtl

[Drale]

167. He still died and I even though he made some questionable decisions with his business

far more evil people still live and live in luxury.

[Retrograde]

168. Yep, it's a cult

I walked past the local Apple store today, and while it wasn't draped in black crepe there was a pile of flowers in front of it, with a small knot of people standing around outside. Two more women came up and left bouquets in the short time it took to go past. I'll cut them a little slack since Jobs is a local guy, but people were acting like some great hero was unexpectedly cut down in the prime of life rather than a shrewd and prudent entrepreneur dying after a long period of illness.

[itsrobert]

173. Those people are Sick

I pity them.

[slackmaster]

170. ROMALTFO!!!111!!!

He was not part of the 99%.

Your first problem is the silly Us vs. Them mentality. Reality is not that simple.

Steve Jobs helped create entire industries, which in turn build products that have vastly increased the productivity of millions of people in other industries. He was one of the true JOB creators. The best thing government can do for the economy is to encourage HIS kind of entrepreneurship.

[sfpcjock]

176. Follow your bliss, but this time remember...

that Fox Con in China doesn't have a Japanese union for the "labor", so it turns out that they have to hang nets over all the exits from the dormitories for the 11 jumpers who snuffed themselves already. It seems that the 10-hour days making iPhones for Apple there are taking a toll on the kids. We need a real labor deal, folks, not this candy-ass Pee Wee golf trade agreements written by fools from ALEC.

[uppityperson]

181. are you typing on a personal computer?