Getting nervous?

[PETRUS]

From the NYT:

I had gone down to Zuccotti Park to see the activist movement firsthand after getting a call from the chief executive of a major bank last week, before nearly 700 people were arrested over the weekend during a demonstration on the Brooklyn Bridge.

“Is this Occupy Wall Street thing a big deal?” the C.E.O. asked me. I didn’t have an answer. “We’re trying to figure out how much we should be worried about all of this,” he continued, clearly concerned. “Is this going to turn into a personal safety problem?”

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/on-wall-street-a-protest-matures/?ref=business

The column's crap, but that little snippet is a gem.

[RZM]

1. OWS 2011 wll not turn into a major revolutionary movement. BUT . . .

The sentiments behind it will not go away either. They were there before, they will be there after. It's less a movement in the present and more a harbinger of long-term grievances.

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. The foundation and techniques they've established may also take on a life of their own.

The entire thing may grow exponentially and become WONDERFUL. Even more wonderful than it is, that is :)

[RZM]

5. It's already taken a life. We're seeing it now.

But effecting real change? That's not in the cards right now. It won't be at all in this incarnation. But it's not going away . . . precisely because IT WAS ALREADY THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. But I do think that it's taken this discontent wide and turned it into a piece of the national dialogue. OWS will peter out, but discontent about the distribution of wealth and the ridiculous behavior of traders will still be there.

As Ice Cube said: 'Life ain't a track meet, it's a marathon.' The battle will end, but the war won't.

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. If this continues in exponential growth get ready for it to not peter out...

...why not be open to the possibility that now is the time and we are the people we have been waiting for? :)

[RZM]

10. You're not seeing significant growth right now

You're seeing moderate growth. Sure it's exponential, but exponential from a tiny beginning still isn't a big deal in such a large country. In 1989 you had far larger crowds demonstrating in East Germany, which was a country of only 17 million (we have 300 million). It's still a fringe movement right now. But my point is that while it's fringe now, it's going to get bigger. Moderate growth becomes important over years, not weeks or months.

[tama]

4. 15M, Occupytogether etc.

are allready a major rEvolutionary movement. And yes we are movement, we move with the flow, we adapt and grow organically, we come in waves. Wave after wave, and there may be also a tsunami or few.

[RZM]

7. 15K isn't a revolutionary movement in a country of 300 million plus

You start talking millions, then you've got something. You could find way more than 15K who believe that Ariel Sharon orchestrated 9/11, for instance. But I do agree that it's not going away. This incarnation of the discontent will go away, but the discontent itself is here to stay, especially if the economy remains shitty (which it will).

[TBF]

9. Not yet it isn't - this is just starting. nt

[RZM]

11. Isn't that what I argued?

We're talking years here. Not months.

[Edweird]

12. Out of those 15k the believe that about Ariel Sharon, how many would join a demonstration?

My point is that the 15k you are seeing is merely the tip of the iceberg support-wise.

[RZM]

14. Then we're in agreement

That's what I said, or at least was trying to say. You could find 15K who believe all sorts of stupid shit. But these 15K are just the tip of the iceberg. Right now they're just 15K. Next year they won't be just 15K. But it's going to take a while.

[tama]

20. 15M

not 15K. 15M is the indignados movement that started 15th of May: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Spanish_protests; http://15october.net/

This is not just in US, this is Global movement with many names and forms, and yes, even on the streets we are allready millions.

[RZM]

21. I misread the first post. Thanks for pointing that out n/t

[TomClash]

2. Greenwald discussed this column

http://politics.salon.com/2011/10/04/andrew_ross_sorkins_assignment_editor/singleton/

[leftstreet]

22. Thanks for posting that

Good read

What will determine how long-lasting and significant is the impact of these protests is whether they allow themselves to be exploited into nothing more than vote-producing organs of the Democratic Party — the way the GOP so successfully converted the Tea Party into nothing more than a Party re-branding project. There is no question that such efforts are underway, as organizations that serve as Party loyalists try to glom onto the protests and distort them into partisan tools.

[TomClash]

24. You're welcome

No doubt he is right.

[TBF]

8. They should be nervous.

Events will dictate what happens, and they sure aren't making wise choices (bribes to the NYPD, announcing new bank fees, etc). It's all about "personal responsibility" Mr. CEO, isn't it?

[Cal Carpenter]

13. That's pretty funny

A personal safety problem, LOL.

:)

[Arctic Dave]

15. Only if he is allergic to pitchforks, tar and feathers. Nt

[Zorra]

16. Didn't Custer say that very same thing as he rode into the Little bighorn? nt

[Hutzpa]

17. My hope is that this does not go away any time soon. n/t

[starroute]

18. I'm willing to make some guesses about how this might go

I'm basing my speculations largely on the model of biological evolution, where you get an evolutionary leap occurring in a very brief period of time, typically followed by diversification, competition that weeds out the less successful variants, and explosive proliferation of the most effective ones.

The current phase is equivalent to the evolutionary leap. People are coming together from different backgrounds and finding they've been working on varying aspects of the same problems. There's a rapid exchange of "genetic information" going on in the general assemblies and smaller study groups and through the appearances of "celebrity" economists and social activists. Out of all this, something new and radically original will emerge over the next few weeks or months.

At that point -- say as the winter shuts down many of the encampments -- people will go back home and start trying to apply what they've learned in any number of forms: electoral politics, labor activism, direct actions, consumer boycotts, and other modes that have not yet been invented. Other ongoing forms of activism that have not been particularly involved in the protests -- such as the radical foodies and guerrilla gardeners -- will also get drawn in.

At the same time, there is likely to be a flowering of art and music and videos inspired by "the movement" -- probably along with new styles of clothing and behavior and slang, all intended to convey the message "I'm part of what's happening." And following that, there will be a broad popularization of the symbology of the movement, equivalent to the late Sixties when every other kid you saw was wearing love beads and flashing peace signs.

By then -- and I'm talking 3-4 years from now -- certain grievances will have been addressed, others will have become brutal sticking-points, and there are likely to have been a number of radically transformative events that nobody at this point can foresee. (Such as a major earthquake in California, the fall of the House of Saud, or even the rise of a new religion.)

But the people who have started thinking about the serious problems right now will still be working on them, and will keep on doing so for the next generation.

[provis99]

19. He's keeping an eye out for the guillotines!

[lapislzi]

23. He would do well to be nervous.

Personally, I am committed to nonviolence. But, things happen.

[blindpig]

25. Sir, your tumbril is waiting....