One of the original Tea Party groups endorses Occupy Wall Street

[highplainsdem]

Found this via a tweet from Markos Moulitsas

http://twitter.com/#!/markos/status/122544653659680768

which links to this page:

http://www.fedupusa.org/2011/10/an-open-letter-from-fedupusa-to-occupy-wall-street-protestors-all-over-the-country/

[Mr Deltoid]

1. If those idiots try to get involved

All hell will break loose.

[99th_Monkey]

6. I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss this out-right

Lord knows, if we are going to EVER unscramble the collective mess we're in, it will have to include this kind
of unexpected and bold stroke, to cross party and ideological barriers, to shatter the illusory and confining
categories and pigeon-holes we had imprisoned ourselves with, to break the molds, so to speak.

I think this could actually be a good thing, tho I'm not sure about this particular case, but am choosing to
imagine and believe that this kind of cross-over awakening will be part and parcel of our collective awakening.

[Mr Deltoid]

12. The white supremicist websites have Tea Party forums

The Tea Party is corporate. The Tea Party represents the 1%.

[XemaSab]

14. You ever been to a tea party meeting?

You might learn something.

[Mr Deltoid]

18. Um, I will pass thank you

Good luck with that...

[99th_Monkey]

21. Your determination to hold on to an Us v. "them" mindset is noteworthy.

While your "facts" may be accurate, please remember that it is those FATTEST OF CATS
who ACTUALLY DO OWN everything in sight, who are "The 1%" not hapless bystanders
who got somehow duped into or hired to parade around with tea bags hanging from
their silly hats.

There is a big difference. The latter are actually part of the 99% dude, so let's
cut them a litte slack to wake up, ok?

[Mr Deltoid]

42. The Tea Party are fascists

Sponsored by corporations. Enjoy your interfacing with them, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Eric Cantor and all the rest of the tea party losers.

[emcguffie]

36. This isn't the Tea Party. It's a segment of the Tea Party.

Or a group in the Tea Party.

There is a broad swathe of agreement between the left and SOME OF THOSE on the right. If we can get them to see that we agree, that's good for us.

I'm not suggesting we should let the Tea Party take over the movement, or let them re-orient OWS to the Fed and the Bildgerbergers (which are part of the 1%, by the way).

I do think we should welcome those with whom we can find common ground, and that list seems to me to be good common ground.

[newspeak]

45. I thought the original libertarian tea partiers were usurped by the

repug teabaggers. And as libertarians, they'd believe in the "free market" and if a corporation is in trouble, they'd have no problem letting it go down. Of course, I have a problem with their concepts of deregulation.

The repug teabaggers are artificially created and funded by the corporates, especially after Obama was elected. The repug party basically was in the shitter, and how can you make a come back? That's what the teabaggers were for, the comeback of the repug party by it's most extreme base.

[eridani]

13. True dat. They may learn something. The main trouble with teabaggers

--is that they are low information. Interacting with more high information types can work wonders. (Doesn't apply to the specifically racist ones, though.)

[99th_Monkey]

23. When the scales fell off their eyes, they actually woke up to what was really happening.

Waking the fuck up, can happen to anyone, at any time.

Consider St. Paul on the road to Damascus.

[Mr Deltoid]

44. The scales will never fall off their eyes

Because they are republican ideologues.

[MNBrewer]

40. FedUpUSA is basically telling OWS, "now here's what you need to do"

[I Have A Dream]

2. That's very interesting.

Thank you for posting it.

[MADem]

3. Easiest way to crap on the effort is for those idiots to jump on the bandwagon. nt

[sabrina 1]

5. I disagree. I think the original group was about the Bush Bank

bailouts, and they were taken over by the Koch Bros and used and many of them have since complained about how their movement was hi-jacked.

If they are sincere, and I believe some of them are, it will confuse the far right who are now attempting to make this a partisan movement. It is not a partisan movement. It is not about politicians or political parties, it is about The System which is so broken that even decent politicians cannot function effectively once they become a part of it.

It is necessary for all Americans to unite around that one issue. Fix the system, then we can disagree on other issues, but without the horrendous vitriol paid for by far-right wing organizations and individuals, all of whom need to be removed from out political process completely.

The Republican party needs to be reformed also. And during the past few months a few Republicans have emerged and distanced themselves from people like Grover Norquist eg. Even some of them have had enough.

It's like rebuilding the whole system from the bottom up. Think of it as a building project. Everyone joins together to build the building. After it is finished, they can disagree on how to decorate it, but with reasonable people involved, no money involved to influence decisions, people can come to agreements based on real compromises the way they do every day in families, in businesses etc. That isn't possible under the current system which has been completely hi-jacked by Corporations.

As it is now, there is so much outside influence on the system, that there is no way to fix it without completely changing it. And on that people across the political spectrum, agree. I am glad they are in agreement with this movement and I hope we do not try to turn this into the same old partisan-driven failure which is what we are trying to fix.

[99th_Monkey]

9. +1000 - your post made my evening.

plz see my post above:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2079225&mesg_id=2079289

[sabrina 1]

29. I agree with you, 99th_Monkey. This will not succeed if it becomes

a partisan, leftwing movement. So far, they have been very successful at not going off course into Political Parties, politicians and partisan issues and that is why some Republicans who have been watching, like my own family members eg, are beginning to feel they can support this as the issues are issues they too are concerned about. Later when we are successful we can all go back to fighting over the issues that for now, are not part of this. :-)

[newspeak]

46. I thought it was a non partisan movement

Anyone standing against the corruption of WS and the banks and corporate interest over people should have the right to protest. The corporate media with their hate spewing talking hacks have done everything in their power to divide us; however, we are all the 99%ers.

[sabrina 1]

48. It is, which is what I have been arguing in this thread. I completely

agree with you. But both parties are likely to try to make it seem like a partisan movement. First the left tried to paint as a 'teaparty' movement, now the right is attempting to paint it as 'sneaky attempt by Democrats to start a movement to get themselves reelected'. Neither is true and I think it is extremely important if it is to succeed, that it includes all Americans who are angry over the current corporate ownership of our Government and all of its institutions.

Polls on this issue show that overwhelming numbers of Americans agree on this issue so it is not surprising that some on the right are beginning to support this movement BECAUSE they have refused to attach themselves to any party. I hope they can resist the attempts to make it a partisan movement. I think they will.

[MADem]

11. You might be right. I hope you are.

However, if it's the racist assclowns with their Flag Shirts and "Love It or Leave It" signs, screaming at the furriners for takin' their jerbs who show up at the festivities, I would be concerned. They have a way of sucking all the air out of the room. If Little Miss You Betcha,the former AK governor, turns up waggin' her finger at those Wall Street fellahs, she could kill the whole effort single-handedly with her noxious commentary.

They love to take things that don't belong to them...

[sabrina 1]

20. Those were most likely the paid for infiltrators.

And some of them will probably be paid again to infiltrate this movement. But such hate-filled diatribe will simply be swept away in this movement. But I have friends and family members who are Republicans and they are decent people. I admit I could not talk to them during the Bush years, the very fact that they voted for that moron made it too difficult for me to talk to them, so I avoided doing so.

But things have changed so much since then that I find it easier now to talk to them, even about politics so long as we stay away from their particular wedge issues. That was not possible before.

Eg, a few nights ago one of them called me and I was shocked when she asked me 'what do you think of all these demonstrations on Wall St.'? She has NEVER asked me for my opinion on anything remotely political before. So I told her I completely supported them, expecting her to disagree as always when it comes to politics. Instead, she said she felt they were right and she hoped they would succeed in changing some things that badly needed changing. She said she had read some of their stuff and thought they were on the 'right track'.

So, I asked her if she might go to one of the demonstrations or maybe donate to their media fund or food fund to help out. And she said 'yes' she and her husband would probably try to help as even though she thought they were probably democrats, the issues they were raising were very important. They are good people, and unlike the party they belong to DO NOT support the attacks on the Social Safety nets, and they are outraged over the crime on Wall St and the influence of money on politics and the media.

These issues are non-partisan and I am very happy that I could have a rational conversation about politics with them for the first time in nearly ten years. Things are changing. The far right is losing its influence on many people as they see them attack the poor and disabled etc. These two people eg, want to help the poor and the elderly and they want the government to be involved. I think they are shocked at what has become of the Republican party.

However, I stayed away from party politics as I am not sure now where they are on that and do not want to get into a fight over what I now consider to be irrelevant until the main source of all of our problems has been fixed. As the Occupiers said in the beginning 'do not be distracted away from the main goals of this movement by politics or anything else, let the naysayers do their thing, ignore them and keep moving forward'. So far, they've done an amazing job of sticking to that.

We have been divided on purpose. When I used to argue with them it was because they were getting their information from right wing sources. Now they realize those sources lied about a lot of things and are now thinking for themselves at last.

So, while the organizers of OWS know they will be infiltrated by undercover agents and the far right, I do believe that if the numbers of people who support what they stand for are so huge that those hateful voices are drowned out, this movement could be unstoppable and people will easily be able to identify those who are trying to destroy it and marginalize them as they deserve.

[99th_Monkey]

22. The very LAST thing "paid infiltrators" would do is pose as "tea baggers"

duh?

[sabrina 1]

28. Well, that's my point 'duh'

My point was that those mentioned in the OP are NOT hiding who they are which is why I believe they are sincere. They are NOT trying to infiltrate, they are trying to support the movement.

Of course infiltrators would not 'infiltrate as teabaggers' what a ridiculous thing to say. My point is that they would not be able to fool anyone if they did, not for long anyhow. Did I say anywhere that they would infiltrate 'as teabaggers'? 'Duh' :eyes:

What is it with this habit people have on the internet of being a smartass, or trying to be, when it would be just as easy to maybe ask someone what they meant without the attitude? It's one aspect of this medium that is puzzling to me, that in real life people would not behave that way, yet behind a screen they feel the need to attack when it is not necessary most of the time, and I wish I knew why as it serves no good purpose at all.

[99th_Monkey]

30. You are so right, or should I say correct.

.. in your critique of my critique ... you speak the truth .. apparently I mis-understood your post.

I say this because I agree with this message and also that I gave you +1000 on another place in this
same string.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2079225&mesg_id=2079313


Oh, but you knew that. LOL
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2079225&mesg_id=2079408

[sabrina 1]

43. Lol, sorry,

I wasn't clear, so my fault! My feeling is that the far right will be more likely to infiltrate as 'drugged out hippies'. I could see them funding people to go to the protests dressed like 'commies', then send their 'reporters' from Fox to interview them, and try to make it look like a commie, hippy movement.

Anyone interviewed by Fox or CNN who feeds into this image, would be suspect imo. But all this will happen, along with undercover cops, which has already happened. So, people will just have to keep pushing their own message. And we can all do that individually also to those we know. All it shows is how scared they are of this movement, which initially they ignored, then laughed at, now are attacking. :-)

[Luminous Animal]

16. Nope. Sabrina I respect you so much but...

the original Teababbing party was a corporate contrived entity from the get go. The public launch started Rick Santelli who railed against mortgage relief.. that is, blaming the victims. Within a flash, teabagger websites popped up immediately. Upon further investigation, it was revealed that most, if not all, of the teabagger websites were registered before Santelli's rant. Thus, the powers that be saw that the shit was going to hit the fan and they created a movement to deflect attention from themselves. The first Teabagging Parties were organized against mortgage relief.

[sabrina 1]

24. Yes, I know the history of the teabaggers since they began calling

themselves that. I am talking about what were probably more Libertarian leaning Republicans who sincerely opposed Bush's bailouts of the Banks and believed they should have been allowed to fail. They were definitely likely to have been dragged into the fake Koch brothers funded Teaparty feeling they had little power within the party, but many are now very disillusioned, including a few in Congress btw, at how they were, as some have said 'manipulated'.

There will always be those who are filled with hatred and bigotry and do not deserve consideration in any decent society, but seriously there are many decent people who did get caught up in that faux 'movement' and now regret it. I did an OP eg, a few weeks ago about one Republican in Congress who had taken the Grover Norquist oath after he was the first Republican to tell Norquist that he no longer felt obligated by that oath, as he now believed that tax raises may be necessary and the oath made it impossible to do what was right for the country. This week I saw a report of another Republican denouncing Norquist also.

I know what you mean about those morons we saw at the Town Hall meetings and the Presidents rallies. But there are definitely some people in the Republican party who are not bad people and who are very dissatisfied with what is going on in this country and looking for answers too.

To succeed this movement cannot just be a partisan movement. It will have to represent all Americans, other than the wackos who will continue to try to paint as a commie, leftwing 'mob' (that's their new word btw) who are trying to turn the country into a communist country. But nearly all of us know decent people who are Republicans, I'm sure, I know I do and I know they can agree on the issues the OWS protesters are emphasizing. The fact that we feel so suspicious of all of them, emphasizes how successful the effort to divide this country has been and I'm sure they are wary of us also.

Think of how different the FFs were, but they were able to unite to get Independence for the years it took to do so, but afterwards, many of them become political opponents and eg, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson who worked so closely during the Revolutionary period, ended up despising each other over partisan politics later and did not speak to each other until nearly the end of their lives. Still, those differences were set aside in order to build the country they later disagreed over how it ought to be run.

I think we can do that also and then go back to fighting over the issues that we disagree on. I hope so anyhow, because if we can't, this won't work.

[99th_Monkey]

25. All the ingrediants of a "perfect storm" to awaken the planet are in place.

This situation is much more fluid and fungible than we imagine, and will
increasingly become more so as this unfolds into a better future, hopefully.

i.e. unless someone is at least a millionaire, or part of the 1%, then
"they" are actually "us" i.e. part of the 99% who are going to continue
to be regularly reamed in the arse over and over til we figure out that
this pernicious "US v. Them" mindset is what paves the way for the 1% to
pit the 99% against themselves .. over and over. until we simply
recognize this and wake up to our unlikely solidarity.

Then we win.

[brewens]

31. I know a few baggers that aren't for the bank or corporate

interests. I just couldn't convince them that was what it was all about. Their refusal to realise they were being played doesn't mean they can't recognize the right thing happening.

I talked to an old guy that is a moderate Republican type. So far he's convinced that OWS is going after capitalism. He was one of my first bosses and there is a good chance he'll get it. With him and a couple others I just have to be careful not to say anything that makes them feel I think they are stupid.

We will need those kind of poeple on our side.

[Raine]

10. I don't agree, I think the more people the better.

This movement should cross parties lines, to be all inclusive.

[Luminous Animal]

17. Indeed. I can't wait for Aryan Nation to show up.

[99th_Monkey]

26. Please see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2079225&mesg_id=2079388

[tblue]

4. Not all of them are racist and stupid.

It shouldn't be a too surprising that there are one or two sane folks among them. I hope there's more. If they're respectful and committed to getting money out of our politics and other key goals, why not?

[Luminous Animal]

19. What other key goals?

[bluestateguy]

7. Anybody who opposes Wall Street bailouts and special rights for corporations should be welcome

nt

[Luminous Animal]

15. Why.

[Xicano]

34. Are you prepared to see them appear to be with us while

they hold up racists signs or signs opposing unions, opposing raising taxes on the rich, opposing gays serving in the military, opposing same sex marriages, etc?

[Ikonoklast]

50. And are carrying semi-automatic rifles?

Or a pistol on their hip, like the Good Patriots that they are?

Eff that noise.

[MFrohike]

8. Nice sentiment

That's about it. The two proposed laws at the tea party link are laughable. Neither would survive a challenge to the current court and the first is especially wrongheaded in its ban on lobbying members not from one's district. That runs squarely into freedom of association and is impractical as hell anyway. The overall sentiments aren't necessarily bad, but the language is bland enough to hide a wackjob agenda.

The only solution I can see to removing the overweening influence of money in politics is a constitutional amendment. Banning contributions to candidates and requiring government funding is easy. It's the question of how to regulate the Swift Boaters that sticks. It's not unreasonable to allow people to donate money to a group for political advertising. The question is how to prevent that from displacing the actual campaigning.

[moondust]

27. More attention seeking?

I doubt if anybody dumb or crazy enough to identify with the racists and anti-government goons of the TP would really appreciate the social and economic justice aims of OWS. They probably just miss the spotlight.

[underpants]

37. They wouldn't offer any support if they (FreedomWorks) didn't know that it is catching on

The few people that do actually know about the TeaBaggers (it is lower than you think) do NOT like them.

I am sure that this is the result of some polling and focus grouping that shows that people are sympathetic to the Occupy cause.

[ixion]

32. Personally, I would like individuals in the tea party groups to reach some consensus

with the Occupy X movements. There are some over-lapping goals there, despite the fact that it's largely an astroturf group.

[Xicano]

33. I noticed that the bottom link makes no mention about

Collective bargaining rights, equality for same sex couples, increasing taxes on the top 1%, increasing taxes on corporations, re-regulating corporations, public healthcare, etc, etc.

[Johnson20]

35. Thanks for your voice of reason 99th monkey. n/t

[Tsiyu]

38. Math is honest in this case

99% means a whole lot of (hopefully) former Republicans and teabaggers.

Whether it worries us or not.


And, yes, it worries me.

[TNLib]

39. Well I would say most of the teabaggers are part of the 99%

nt

[Odin2005]

41. Good. They are realizing that the TP was hijacked by the Movement Conservatives.

[Voice for Peace]

47. kick & recommend. the 99% includes almost everybody.

[mdmc]

49. ..

[mdmc]

51. ..