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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:06 PM Original message |
The Awlaki memo and Marty Lederman - Glenn Greenwald |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:15 PM Response to Original message |
1. Greenwald has unlearned much of his legal training. |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:21 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. His point is that the standards are justified within the DOJ |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:24 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. He was not murdered. |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:26 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. Without due process, in violation of the US Constitution |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:37 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. Irrelevant. He joined with an enemy of the United |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:38 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Traitors get trials |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:40 PM Response to Reply #7 |
8. Enemies actively involved in trying to kill Americans |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:41 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. actively involved in trying to kill Americans? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:42 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. One does not hold a trial when acting in self-defense. |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:45 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Self-defense is a bullshit claim |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:51 PM Response to Reply #13 |
15. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:40 PM Response to Reply #5 |
9. Deleted message |
tama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 05:02 AM Response to Reply #5 |
25. Can you say that aloud? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 07:48 PM Response to Reply #25 |
36. The Constitution excludes federal courts from having |
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Downwinder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 10:47 PM Response to Reply #36 |
53. At that point the Geneva Convention applies. |
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msanthrope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 10:54 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Fine, Show us the protocol this broke? nt |
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donquijoterocket (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 11:47 AM Response to Reply #5 |
30. too bad |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 07:47 PM Response to Reply #30 |
35. You seem convinced he was an innocent lamb who wasn't harming |
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tama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 03:14 AM Response to Reply #35 |
56. What happened to |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 03:15 AM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Do you favor disarming all police? nt |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:38 PM Response to Reply #3 |
6. Do you have some citation or a list of the Americans he killed? Thank you. n/t |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:42 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. It's those that he was trying to kill that justify the taking of his life. |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:46 PM Response to Reply #11 |
14. Excellent evidence to present to a Federal Grand Jury for an indictment |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:51 PM Response to Reply #14 |
16. Grand juries don't stop terrorists. |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:55 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. They don't stop dictatorships either |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:31 PM Response to Reply #18 |
41. So, you think Obama is both a traitor and a dictator? |
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tama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 05:10 AM Response to Reply #16 |
26. That applies also |
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_ed_ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 10:53 AM Response to Reply #16 |
29. You sound so scared of the Big, Bad Terrorists |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 07:39 PM Response to Reply #29 |
33. What do you suppose has had more to do with preventing |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 12:55 AM Response to Reply #11 |
22. That's what I thought. Ciao. n/t |
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Bandit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:06 AM Response to Reply #1 |
27. They do not have jurisdiction over overseas military operations in the field. |
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AverageJoe90 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 02:02 PM Response to Reply #1 |
31. You do have a really good point here. |
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Enrique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 05:48 AM Response to Reply #1 |
62. John Walker Lindh |
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DeSwiss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 10:54 PM Response to Original message |
17. K&R n/t |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 11:06 PM Response to Original message |
19. Does Glenn Greenwald actually believe that? |
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MNBrewer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-09-11 11:10 PM Response to Reply #19 |
20. The AUMF itself does not make those distinctions. |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 12:29 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. The text of the AUMF itself does not explicitly make any distinctions. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 12:56 AM Response to Original message |
23. New York Review of Books: Killing Citizens in Secret |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:52 AM Response to Reply #23 |
28. What's interesting, too is that the "news writer" that was killed with him |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 07:46 PM Response to Reply #28 |
34. He was not a journalist, he was a full-fledged member of Al Qaeda. |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:00 PM Response to Reply #34 |
37. I wonder what folks on some sides might think of Chris Hedges or Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn? |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:17 PM Response to Reply #37 |
38. You're equating Howard Zinn and Al Qaeda. Real cute. nt |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:20 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. To the American Establishment Politico...They've always been... |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:27 PM Response to Reply #39 |
40. I understand that Chomsky and Zinn didn't kill thousands of people in New York. |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:36 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. They could be seen as "advocating against the American Establishment." |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:40 PM Response to Reply #42 |
46. So what? Not all people opposed to the US are the same. |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:36 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Neither did Alwaki or Sami Kahn. |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:40 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. They joined the organization that did, and sought to advance its |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:45 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. We all should be able to express our views politcally. They didn't shoot down anyone... |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:54 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. Courts have no jurisdiction over this sort of thing. |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 09:02 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. Go read Glenn Greenwald's article. He's a "real Constitution Lawyer" along with others |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 09:12 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. Greenwald largely shared and implicitly endorsed |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 09:52 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. NYTimes Sues Federal Government For Refusing To Reveal Its Secret Interpretation Of The PATRIOT ACT |
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tama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 03:29 AM Response to Reply #48 |
58. Let's assume |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 03:40 AM Response to Reply #58 |
59. Did my son join an enemy of the US against which |
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tama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 04:22 AM Response to Reply #59 |
60. Nit-pick details |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 05:08 AM Response to Reply #60 |
61. No, I'm defending the President's authority to take action |
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Enrique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 06:00 AM Response to Reply #61 |
63. Angela Davis |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 08:38 AM Response to Reply #63 |
64. Inside the US vs outside, not authorized by Congress. nt |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 11:46 AM Response to Reply #61 |
66. "legally declared enemies " |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 10:39 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. There are no judicial warrants for military action. |
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bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-12-11 11:27 AM Response to Reply #67 |
68. YOU used the term "legally declared enemy". |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-12-11 08:34 PM Response to Reply #68 |
69. Al Qaeda is a legally declared enemy per the AUMF |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 04:44 AM Response to Original message |
24. Deleted message |
bvar22 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 03:03 PM Response to Original message |
32. The Administration's Justification: |
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KoKo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 08:39 PM Response to Reply #32 |
44. It's so dreadful....it made me sick when I first heard it... |
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red dog 1 (307 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-10-11 09:17 PM Response to Original message |
51. Will Lederman become A.J. if Holder lied to Judiciary Committee? |
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BlueCheese (897 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 12:42 AM Response to Original message |
55. Arguments, then and now. |
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geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-11-11 08:39 AM Response to Reply #55 |
65. There's a big difference in the case of Padilla, namely that |
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