Admit it: congratulations owed to Obama and Congress this AM

[MannyGoldstein]

The three new Bush-Obama free trade deals will put many, many Americans back to work. As long as they move to Korea, Columbia, or Panama.

With this precedent set, we can look forward to Republicans and Democrats reaching across the aisle more often to accomplish legislation that is similarly innovative.

[Le Taz Hot]

1. Don't'cha just love

the "two-party" system?

[ixion]

2. the 'jobs' bill on the march. Next up: Tax cuts for the rich!

:woohoo:

Don't cha just love "bipartisanship?"

[nc4bo]

4. And what about that payroll tax deduction thing or whatever....

yea it's soooooo good for us, eh?

[myrna minx]

3. It's just sickening. n/t

[LWolf]

5. Yep. nt

[QC]

6. Bipartilicious! n/t

[zanana1]

80. A new word!

Now how about "Biparridiculous"?

[mod mom]

7. Oh come on, they are just working to please their constituents....

the corporations.

[snagglepuss]

8. It must be a simple oversight that no mention was made as to where

people could send their resumes.

[lunatica]

9. Well I must admit you tricked me into clicking on your link

Won't happen again.

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. Thread is useless without pictures. Here:

[Muskypundit]

61. Except in reality Obama is still smiling and more than willing to make another box

[EdMaven]

70. why give jobs to shriners?

[woo me with science]

11. The Chamber of Commerce is smiling.

Why bother electing a Republican next year? They do very well with the current White House occupant.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. +1!

:thumbsup:

[newspeak]

85. thanks for not using US chamber of commerce

because there is nothing US about the chamber of commerce. I believe they'd sell their mother to any global corporation, not to mention this country.

[Poll_Blind]

29. TOO TRUE!

I hope you don't mind but I quoted you in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2110469">this OP. The Chamber is just shitting themselves with happiness over this deal...and their plans for the future.

PB

[chill_wind]

40. Third Way is tickled pink, too.

But we knew they would be.

http://thirdway.org/press_releases/171

[Enthusiast]

68. Why do you suppose these GOP candidates

are so INCREDIBLY LAME? TPTB have who they want already.

[OhioChick]

12. Rather sickening to say the least n/t

[Starry Messenger]

13. I was hoping something good had actually happened.

Despair is beginning to set in.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. The post above yours was weird. I hope it was tongue-in-cheek. nt

[Major Hogwash]

62. Are you Jewish?

Just answer the question and quit running from it.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

15. Only Nixon can go to China. Only a Democrat (Clinton, now Obama) can hollow out the middle class.nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

39. GWCryBabyBush, the master hollower, did the worst hollowing out of the middle class.

[Bluesbreaker]

55. Middle class slide toward oblivion has accelerated under Obama

[bvar22]

16. One can NOT be FOR More Free Trade,

and be FOR the American Working Class at the same time.
The two positions ARE mutually exclusive.

Pick ONE.
President Obama HAS already made his choice.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Gore1FL]

41. Not true, actually

Free trade that also supports the wages and benefits of the worker is a positive thing. The Free trade of the 50 United States, for example has been a good thing. Agreements that do that, bring everyone up.

The problem is, such agreements seldom happen.


The concept of free trade is not bad in and of itself. It is only bad when worker protections are left out. That is an important distinction.

[kimsarah]

52. Love

is a many splendored thing

[Gore1FL]

53. So is economic equality n/t

[bvar22]

84. Worker Protection, Human Rights, Environmental Protections,

and a Dedicated Commitment Neighborhood Improvement.

Even Interstate Free Trade hasn't been good for the American Worker as it has allowed the Big Boxes to cross state lines and drive locally owned businesses out of business.
There was a time when Fair Competition regulations prohibited large Out of State business from coming to Small Town America and undercutting the local businesses.

What you are talking about is "Fair Trade",
and that is NOT the same thing as getting government off the backs of business and trusting the "invisible Hand" "Free Trade".
Capital will ALWAYS be able to outrun Human Rights, Labor Rights, and Environmental Protections
unless The Government functions as a protector of our Rights and NOT as a facilitator to Capital.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Gore1FL]

90. I disagree that it is either/or

There is no reason a trade agreement can reduce tariffs while enforcing labor/safety/environmental/economic standards. None of these are mutually exclusive. I am not arguing that such a thing has not been tried in the past, but that is not a reason to not make it a future concern.

Americans don't deserve jobs more than anyone else in the world. Everyone does deserve a level playing field. You can't call for solidarity and then exclude people because of political borders. Well, you can. You just did. It cannot be done without contradiction, though.

There is not one reason that trade agreements can embrace worker rights, environmental standards, safety, et al right along with no tariffs. Ultimately, we aren't going to transition to a class 1 civilization on this planet until that happens. If we don't accomplish that transition, the human race will perish.

Free trade agreements and a global economy are happening. They will continue to happen. We can demand labor, safety, environmental and economic standards to be a part of them, or we can simply remain uninvolved in the process and complain on a political chat board when agreements that do not include labor, safety, environmental, and economic standards get passed.

Edited to further clarify: The point is to improve our standards and to bring the world up to us.

[bvar22]

91. and THAT was in the Marketing Brochure that was used to SELL...

... "Free Trade" to a gullible America in the 90s.

How has that worked out for us?

And YES!
As a culture and a country, we have every right to protect our standard of living and the health and welfare of our children.

[Gore1FL]

92. No it wasn't

There were never the protections I suggested as necessary in those agreements. They were not promised, either.

The trade agreements we seem to keep having are bad because of the absence of those rules not because we have trade agreements.

Feel free to argue against a truly level playing field that I am suggesting, but please refrain from mischaracterizing my point in the future. If you don;t understand my point, that's OK. One possible explanation I am not explaining it well.

I am advocating world wide minimum wages, and world-wide safety conditions, and world-wide child labor laws, and world-wide environmental regulations, and so on. I advocate trade treaties as a way to get there. The economy is not a zero sum. Assuming those protections are in place, that grows everything.

I am not advocating trade agreements without those protections.

You are concerned about a fragment of the world workers. I am concerned about them all. Long term, I am concerned about our survival as a species. We can't stay at a class 0 civilization. We will perish. We can't move to a class 1 civilization until we can learn to think outside of our little corner of the world when it comes to worker, environmental, etc. protections.

I guess I am just too far to the left of you.

[bvar22]

94. I KNOW what you are advocating FOR...

...and agreeing with the Chamber of Commerce, the Republican Party, and the conservative Business friendly "Democrats" in no way puts you to "The Left" of me.


Your claims in the 4th paragraph are laudable, but HOW is supporting "Free Trade" going to accomplish them?
It hasn't, and won't produce the results you want.
The results ARE in.

[Gore1FL]

96. No they are not

because my strategy has not been employed.

Either you don't comprehend my argument or you simply have the desire to win an argument by asserting I am saying something that I have not.

If you don't believe either of these are the case, then please provide a link where the Chamber of Commerce, the Republican Party, and the conservative Business friendly "Democrats" expressly state that trade agreements must provide compensation, safety, and rights equal to the highest standards of the countries involved for all workers. Then you can find a link that shows those same people calling for the highest of environmental standards.

Don't worry. If you can't only you and I will know and you can tell everyone how you won an argument with some guy who advocated death camps or whatever further false claims about me you'd like to make.

If your argument is "no one has tried therefore it will never work," then I am pretty sure we are done here. If that is the case you aren't worth the time to reason with.

[bvar22]

98. That WAS the original argument FOR "Free Trade" as presented...

...by the Republicans & the incoming Clinton Administration in 1992.
When LABOR, Human Rights, and Environmental groups objected,
they WERE reassured that "protections" would be included in these treaties.
They lied.

The ONLY way to impose these protections are to withdraw from All the current "Free Trade" treaties and renegotiate them on a Bi-Lateral basis (with each individual trade partner) with Our Government serving as the spokesman and protector of Human Rights, Labor Rights, and Environmental Protections.
Otherwise, Corporations WILL simply pack up, move across the Free Trade border, and set up a new sweatshop.

Capital WILL always be able to outrun Human Rights, Labor Rights, and Environmental Protections.
They CAN and DO make these decisions in a matter of hours at a board meeting with a handful of people.
They CAN and DO Pack Up & Move overnight.


OTOH, it takes YEARS/Decades for LABOR & Human Rights and Environmental Concerns to:

*Recognize, Document, and compile complaints
(This can ONLY be done AFTER grievances occur,
meanwhile, business is running Wide Open)

*Have our voices heard

*Organize with Common Cause

*Petition the government(s)

*Propose legislation

*Have the legislation Passed, enacted, and enforced

The ONLY avenue available for Enforcement or Change IS through the governments directly involved,
and the ONLY government where we (US Citizens) can have our grievance heard and acted upon is the US Government.
The purpose of our government should NOT be to facilitate business,
but to protect Human, Labor, and Environmental Rights.
The ONLY way to do this is through MORE regulation and restraints put on Capital (Corporations),
NOT less.
Otherwise, "Free Trade" will always be a Race to the Bottom.

I support the plan proposed by Dennis Kucinich & supported by Liberal Democrats:
withdrawal from ALL of the current "Free Trade" Treaties,
and the renegotiation of trade treaties on a bi-lateral basis.



Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Gore1FL]

100. So you vehemently agree with me....

The ONLY avenue available for Enforcement or Change IS through the governments directly involved,
and the ONLY government where we (US Citizens) can have our grievance heard and acted upon is the US Government.
The purpose of our government should NOT be to facilitate business,
but to protect Human, Labor, and Environmental Rights.
The ONLY way to do this is through MORE regulation and restraints put on Capital (Corporations),
NOT less.
Otherwise, "Free Trade" will always be a Race to the Bottom.

I support the plan proposed by Dennis Kucinich & supported by Liberal Democrats:
withdrawal from ALL of the current "Free Trade" Treaties,
and the renegotiation of trade treaties on a bi-lateral basis.

I specifically stated the problem with the agreements is that they did not protect Human, Labor, and Environmental Rights. If agreements included those things, they would be OK. That is exactly what Kucinich is advocating, and just now you said you agreed with it.

I now remember why I don't post here much anymore. DU has become an echo chamber where no one reads. Nevermind. I'll go away. You can find other people you agree with to be hateful towards.

[Hippo_Tron]

95. The cost of living in Malaysia is substntially lower than the cost of living in the United States

You could require that everybody in Malaysia be paid a living wage, only work an 8 hour day, get 2 weeks paid vacation time, and make every factory comply with US environmental standards and US workers would still be at a disadvantage.

[Gore1FL]

97. The point would be to raise the standard of living n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

101. Standard of living does not = cost of living

One could afford a much higher standard of living in Omaha, Nebraska on a $40,000 salary than they could living in New York City on a $40,000 salary. One could a much much higher standard of living in Malaysia than Omaha, Nebraska on a $40,000 salary.

[bullwinkle428]

17. Marcy Kaptur said it best this morning : "How many times do you have

to get hit over the head before realize that it's painful?"

[Poll_Blind]

57. Oh it ain't hurtin' him none. Tax breaks for corporations, free trade deals. He will....

...continue coasting on in this Third Way fog forever. These kinds of moves from the President show a core commitment beyond rationality or introspection.

PB

[Enthusiast]

71. I'll cast my vote AGAINST him.

Someone will get my vote but it will not be a DINO.

[Rex]

19. I'm sure the army of blue links will show up to prove you wrong.

Any minute now...holding breath for few...more...seconds...

[pampango]

20. Blue links will never convert the true believers.

:)

[robdogbucky]

24. No, not today, they're too busy touting the corp contributions n/t

[rhett o rick]

25. Havent seen much of the "ignored" lately. nm

[Rex]

87. Same here, now that you mention it

they have been strangely absent these past few weeks. Maybe OWS has them in a real tizzy and now they are stuck in 'tizzy overload'! :rofl:

[slay]

21. They continue to screw us - in a "bi-partisan" way - any chance they get

and we have NO opposition party. it's right wing corporatist these days or else. Obama is one too. we have a one party system now - the money party - and they don't give a shit about any of us.

[Poll_Blind]

23. Two brief videos from Peter DeFazio on the House floor posted to the DU video forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x624440">DeFazio on the job killing free trade agreements
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x624441">DeFazio on the South Korean Free Trade Agreement

PB

[ProSense]

43. DeFazio just voted for this:

House Votes to Delay EPA Pollution Regulations for Boilers

[Shining Jack]

48. You deserve a reply!

Yawn.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

73. You're done.

No one should vote for this president. It is painfully obvious.

[tnlefty]

26. I'm so glad that you found the silver lining in this as I was feeling

somewhat disillusioned, which would lead to someone being disillusioned and we just can't have that.

Hell, I think I'll grab a pistol, some booze and see what Rep. Todd is up to today.

[ThomWV]

28. While waiting for wages to stabilize at the lowest common common level I'll just K&R this post.

[WinkyDink]

30. Or Colombia.

Yes, it is a pet peeve.

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Sorry, I had just woken up

My bad

[durablend]

31. Somebody...anybody...please post TEH LIST

To help wash away all this despair and negativity!

:sarcasm:

[LondonReign2]

34. Well sure, The List would be nice

But I'd rather be told about the astoundingly high percentage of liberals who support the President, the fact the DU isn't the real world, and how this thread is getting an unrec

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vanje]

37. Okay!

[kenfrequed]

33. It was sad

More of what doesn't work. More free trade to go along with the more tax breaks philosphy.

[B Calm]

35. Obama was not my first choice. .

[russspeakeasy]

44. He WAS mine...Come on Bernie, primary Mr. O.

[newspeak]

86. Kuccinich was my first choice

knew Hillary was DLC, voted Obama hoping there was hope.

[russspeakeasy]

89. A good choice....

[Laelth]

36. Just like Clinton--doing whatever it takes to "get something done" ...

... even if that means stabbing the American people in the back.

Personally, I never want to see a Democratic President sign a bill that has 100% Republican support, but that's just what Obama has gleefully announced that he intends to do.

And "to heck" with those on the left who disagree. After all, they're "f***ing retarded."

:mad:

-Laelth

[leftstreet]

38. Are we even getting any mangoes out of this?

:-(

[OnyxCollie]

49. Gotta give props for the mango reference.

:thumbsup:

[reggie the dog]

79. lots of cocaine though, from colombia through panama

it is designed to cut off la famillia and MS 13 will no longer get a cut of the business

[ProSense]

42. UAW Applauds Passage of U.S.-South Korea Free Trade Agreement

UAW Applauds Passage of U.S.-South Korea Free Trade Agreement

[MannyGoldstein]

45. AFL-CIO: "Free trade agreements hurt the middle class"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/64934.html">Free trade agreements hurt the middle class

We strongly oppose the proposed trade agreements with South Korea, Colombia and Panama. They will not help put Americans back to work, only further hasten the decline of our middle class.

While many in Washington look at trade through an elite lens, working people outside Washington have lived the reality of failed trade agreements. In fact, the damage to our economy from trade agreements is one of the few issues on which Americans across the political spectrum agree: By a nearly 4-to-1 margin, American voters say that free-trade agreements between the U.S. and other countries cost jobs instead of creating jobs.

Of course, trade agreements can create job opportunities, too, but not if they repeat the flawed policies of the past. Our country does not need more trade deals that ship jobs overseas and fail to protect workers at home and abroad. Let’s look at the three trade agreements on the table, one by one.

First, Colombia. Rewarding Colombia — the most dangerous place in the world to be a trade unionist — with a trade agreement sends the wrong message. It says we don’t mind that the government has utterly failed to protect basic labor rights and prosecute murderers of trade unionists. The number of trade unionists killed in 2010 — 51 — was an increase over 2009. Twenty-two trade unionists have been killed so far in 2011, including 15 since the much-heralded announcement of the “Labor Action Plan.”

These agreements may help certain sectors, but they will destroy an estimated 250,000 American jobs in total.

Shame.

[Union Scribe]

50. It makes me sick that fucking idiot Bob King is lending cred to this bullshit

and its spin artists. He can be your token labor free trade lover now, but it ought to cost him his position.

And even that whore didn't say he approved of all three FTAs.

[Ignis]

67. +1

[bread_and_roses]

82. Amen, Brother. (n/t)

[bread_and_roses]

81. every organization has its Quislings - no different than a Bankster applauding de-reg

- or to be kinder, those so desperate for work they'll put aside their own long-term interest for $$ in the short term. So what? What does it change? The Tar Sands and Fracking will give the Trades jobs, and by and large they support them too. Self-interest. Does it change anything? No.

In this instance Bob King has no more credibility than a CEO applauding a tax break that will benefit him/her.

[McCamy Taylor]

46. I can understand Colombia and Panama on humanitarian grounds. We have F**ked both countries,

but Korea is doing just fine. Is there a specific natural resource that we are planning to sell to Korea?

[Poll_Blind]

60. Allegedly, automobiles.

ither today or tomorrow Obama will tour an auto parts manufacturer in the US with Lee Myung-Bak. However, you should check http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x624441">this snippet of video of my House rep Peter DeFazio, specifically addressing how fucked America is on the Korean free trade deal when it comes to selling those cars.

PB

[DeSwiss]

47. K&R

"It is absolutely true that NAFTA was a mistake." ~Barack Obama, 2008 http://vimeo.com/20355767">"Lifting the Veil: Obama and the Failure of Capitalist Democracy"

[mckara]

51. They Think that We are as Stupid as They Are!!!

[Jack Sprat]

54. We know. It's all wonderful.

I'm sending them some more money needed for future campaigns. It's really swell these days. You can't beat city hall and the big boys.

[unionworks]

56. tell Obama

To stop blowing the 1%

[Enthusiast]

74. Too late................nt

[DissedByBush]

59. His rep just signed the ACTA treaty too

More of our government Big Business just bought at our expense.

Back when he was negotiating it, big business had a seat at the table but rights and consumer organizations were shut out.

And Obama doesn't even think it needs Senate confirmation either.

Ron Wyden is the only one complaining about this.

[blkmusclmachine]

64. Bipartisanshit you can FLUSH down the toilet:

Along with another quarter million American jobs.

DC is a racket.

[Poll_Blind]

65. TPM: Many Dems Defect As Obama Passes Trade Deals With GOP Help

From http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/while-gop-cheers-obamas-trade-deals-divide-dems.php">TPM:

But President Obama mainly has Republicans to thank for the trade deals long-awaited passage, one of the few components of Obama's jobs package where he and the GOP agree.

All three deals had broad Republican support while they divided House Democrats. The vast majority of the Democratic caucus voted against all three deals, the agreement with Colombia attracting the most noes - 158. Even Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), one of Obama's top lieutenants in Congress, voted against the Colombia agreement, though she voted for the other two.

Worth noting. I'm all for a Democratic president being bi-partisan but when he's pushing legislation only the Republicans can stomach in any number, who sits in the White House?

PB

[Poll_Blind]

93. Kick for the weekend.

PB

[Enthusiast]

66. The big accomplishment

was in getting these trade deals done against the wishes and best interests of a huge majority of the American people.

How does that make you feel President Obama? You know we didn't want this. You simply do not care what the people want.

[GreenTea]

69. I have to agree.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. I can't hear you over the noise of the Feds busting cancer grannies for smoking pot in California.

Sorry. Your lips are moving and I assume you're saying something, but this giant infernal stupid fucking tax dollar wasting racket is just too damn loud.

[JDPriestly]

75. Yes, and perhaps those without the ready cash to cover a

ticket on a freighter can get some sort of indentured servant arrangement with a corporation in their country of destination.

There's the solution to our unemployment crisis.

[Agony]

77. Admit it: corruption owed to Obama and Congress this AM

i fixed your title

[deutsey]

78. Bidness as usual n/t

[Marrah_G]

83. yup

They are all part of the fucking problem.

[Romulox]

88. Just one more thing to blame on Bush...

:shrug:

[clinton4life2011]

99. Obama is my man!

The only president to actually do something about an economic problem!