Deep down inside they are afraid that

[G_j]

our strength comes from not having 'leaders'. That is why they keep saying we need leaders to emerge. They don't understand "horizontal" leadership and it makes them very uncomfortable.
There is then no person they can bribe, threaten, compromise or coerce. Don't listen to them, we don't need or want 'leaders', not by their (media, politicians etc.)definition.

[villager]

1. plus, once they know who the leaders are, they can dispatch the "lone nuts"

...or some similar, previously used tactic...

[sandyshoes17]

22. they want them to have a leader

So they know who to attack. They would be working overtime trying to find anything to discredit this person, or even set them up. It's better as a people movement right now. They can't handle that. A leader will grow out of it.

[swilton]

24. +++

Once a leader would emerge, then the news would be focused on this or that leaders' skeletons, etc....and tabloid journalism steps in and the message is lost...

That is if such a person were not assassinated first....

I don't feel that this movement is safe until the CIA is dismantled and I hope such an action is on the list.

[PETRUS]

2. Quite

(A story on Argentina from 2007)

Horizontalidad: Where Everyone Leads

Argentina's workers took over factories, citizens took over the streets—no one seemed to miss having a boss.

"These protesters were not demanding something new, but were creating it. These days, many refer to this moment as a rupture with the past, a break from the deeply instilled fear and silence that was a legacy of the most brutal dictatorship in Argentine history, one that “disappeared” 30,000 people, often torturing them in the most horrific ways.

The popular rebellion of 2001 was comprised of workers and unemployed, the middle class, and those who had recently lost their middle-class status. It was a rebellion without leadership, either by established parties or by a newly emerged elite, a fact which formed part of the foundation of horizontalidad and other new organizing forms. It precipitated the birth of hundreds of neighborhood assemblies involving many tens of thousands of active participants."

http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/latin-america-rising/horizontalidad-where-everyone-leads

More at the link.

[truedelphi]

21. Thank you for both the link and the information.

A Horizontal Movement scares the crap out of them.

Rather like a decent laxative.

"We Shall Not Be Moved" but maybe they will be cleaned out!

[PETRUS]

26. Glad it was useful! nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. I don't think it's all that "deep down"

Without someone to point a finger at, they lack the ability to discredit by association.

[undeterred]

4. And they can't imagine that there isn't some wealthy person

like Soros putting us all up to it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. Well according to my Tea Party neighbor, Soros IS behind the #OWS protesters and

The KOCH brothers have NOTHING to do with the Tea Party movement.


He is a trip. :silly:

[itsallhappening]

5. There are leaders.

It's well-organized and well-funded.

For instance, I was watching the Livestream from NYC the other day. There was a girl from Miami, FL, who looked to be in her early twenties at most. She stated that she doesn't have a college education (nothing wrong with that; I point it out because it's unlikely that she makes a lot of money, which is relevant here) and in this video clip she's in NYC, on her way to Istanbul, Turkey, to help them organize their own protest.

How does a girl that age become so knowledgeable about organizing protests? Who tapped her to go to Istanbul to help them get up and running? And who's paying for this young girl to travel there?

Another person said they were from Seattle and had been helping the movement "full time" since early April. He said he'd been in NYC for ten days at the time he was broadcasting. He couldn't have been more than twenty-five years old. Does he work? If so, how'd he get time off for all of this? If not, how is he paying for all of this while not squandering his savings?

People are being paid to lead this, and they've clearly been trained in this sort of thing.

Now, is there anything inherently wrong with that? I don't think so. But they should just be honest about it.

[G_j]

6. I beg to differ

and organizing and taking on specific tasks is not leading.

[itsallhappening]

8. Sure it is.

Another example:

"The media team, upon receiving that laptop, designated it to me for my use on behalf of the Internet committee. The computer isn't mine. When I go back to Chicago, I'm not going to take it. Right now I don't even know where it is. Someone else is using it. But so, after hearing this, people thought it had been gifted to me personally. People were upset by that. So a member of the Internet work group went in front of the group and said, 'This is a need of the committee. It's been put into Ketchup's care.' They explained that to the group, but didn't ask for consensus on it, because the committees are empowered."

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/275-42/7810-why-the-elites-are-in-trouble

There are leaders, and people have already given them power.

But that's just on the ground stuff.

My initial post was about it being obvious that there's a larger leadership. Otherwise, how else was this organized as far back as April? Who trained the organizers? And, more importantly, who is paying for people to travel around the world to get other demonstrators organized? It can only be at a leadership level.

[itsallhappening]

14. Forgot to add this:

The movement has been likened to the Arab Spring demonstrations that swept across the Middle East and North Africa earlier this year, with disparate groups uniting in their demand for political and social change. That movement resulted in leadership changes at the highest levels in Egypt and Libya.

In fact, when the leadership at Adbusters was watching coverage of Arab Spring protests, there was an "a-ha" moment that made them think such a movement could also be possible here.

"We started wondering whether the same kind of tools that were used in Egypt, and the sort of regime-change philosophy, couldn't be applied to America," Adbusters co-founder Kalle Lasn told The Canadian Press.

The conversation that followed led to Adbusters putting out the call for the original Sept. 17 Occupy Wall Street event, which in turn has sparked a much broader movement.

http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20111014/occupy-toronto-wall-street-111015/20111015/?hub=EdmontonHome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adbusters

This sort of puts the lie to the idea that OWS is a spontaneous uprising. It clearly started back in the spring (when the person I mentioned in my initial post said they started working "full time" on it in April).

The leaders exist.

Nice chatting with you. Now I have to go occupy a sports bar to watch college football :)

[bengalherder]

20. Cool story, bro. n/t

[arcane1]

7. Sounds like your opinion to me

None of your anecdotes including any mention of being paid.

[itsallhappening]

9. We're all posting opinions.

My opinion is based on the facts I was given by people broadcasting on the official OWS Livestream for NYC.

It doesn't make sense to think that people that age (or most people of any age, these days) have the money to do stuff like this, especially taking trips across the globe.

[arcane1]

10. I have many friends that age who take trips every year

I know two couples in their early 30's who traveled the globe for an entire year.

[itsallhappening]

11. To organize protests in foreign countries?

On their own, with no organizational framework behind them?

[tama]

19. We are organisms

parts of our communities and various networks. Some people have calling and talent for organizing and the experience and know-how gets passed along - learn one thing, teach to one other, etc.

Does not mean that there is some centrally lead conspiracy-organization behind this movement funding etc. - there are many many organizations organized in many different ways, links and networks between organizations and individuals, etc.

[glowing]

34. You are not listening then. She works for a company that deals

with urban sprawl. She was already slated to go to Istanbul for her employer. She was out of Miami. Her layover was in NY. She made the layover a day event so she could go down to the park. She has been tailing to people in Turkey because she knew she was going to be there. So she has helped in their protest. On her way back, after 9 days of work, she is going to try to do a day long layover in NY again so she can go back down to the park before going home to Miami. I'm sure she does have many skills at getting activist things achieved because her work is something that deals with a major problem we have in this country with sprawl.. I forget what the name of the company is; I'm sure I can go and find the interview. Her name was Kadja.

[chrisa]

37. Completely wrong. You know nothing about internet activism to say that.

Sorry to be so harsh, but nothing you said is even remotely accurate. These groups that are protesting are essentially leaderless, much like how an internet message board or flash mob is leaderless.

Nobody is being paid to protest at OWS, unless if you have concrete evidence of this claim. Once again, learn about internet activism, flash mobs, and the "Anonymous" culture, because you apparently know nothing about Occupy Wall Street and its protesters.

[KittyWampus]

39. I think it's interesting to find some DU'ers so upset at the idea that there IS LEADERSHIP

involved here. And planning.

It's way subtle, but it's still there.

Why does it bother you so much?

[chrisa]

40. There is no leadership in the form of normal leadership. And there certainly

isn't PAID leadership like the poster implied. That implies that this is some sort of astroturf movement, in a way.

There are no recognized leaders of the march. There's a huge difference.

[G_j]

42. 'astroturf'

Yes that is what I felt was being implied in post 5. However, OWS is the absolute antithesis of astroturf.

[Poll_Blind]

12. Nor can they easily use divisive social issues (abortion, gay marriage) to drive a wedge between...

...the participants. OWS is very much a single issue movement and that issue is to rectify the economic disparity which currently exists.

PB

[nichomachus]

38. Bingo!

What is encouraging to me is that the protestors are so varied. There is no single agenda except fighting against the corporatocracy.

I've said for a long time that if people could get beyond the artificial wedges driven between segments of the population -- gay vs. straight, black vs, white, men vs. women, christian vs, non-christian -- and realize that 99 percent of us are in the same boat, the one percenters would be in deep shit.

The one percenter are in deep shit.

This is why they want a "agenda" or a "list of demands" or to know who the "leaders" are -- so they can begin driving in the wedges and start their campaign of personal destruction.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. Yes, that's exactly right.

My favorite counter to their insistence that there must be leaders is to ask them a simple question:

Who is the President of the Internet?

[Desertrose]

16. You make a great point, my friend.

:hi::loveya::hug:

[Tsiyu]

17. The Media: "We REALLY want to serve your leaders."

Their Recipe Book is well-tested.

[TygrBright]

30. Yeh. Creamed. On toast. Sorry guys, no chance. n/t

[Laelth]

18. Hear, hear. This point is essential. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

23. They're also afraid that soon there will be no place to hide

I imagine the fact that the protests are going global is a little unsettling for the privateers, buccaneers, pirates or whatever you want to all them. If it gets to the point where they actually have to pay higher taxes or move to another country, and if there is soon no other country that will let them amass billions without paying for use of the commons or destroy the local economy, then they're sunk. Like the privateers of old, they will become internationally hunted pariahs who can find no place to hide from the law.

[proud patriot]

25. Amen

[lonestarnot]

27. K

already R'd!

[applegrove]

28. They can't hollow out the reputation of and then insert their own sick narrative of

our leaders if they can't find any.

[lunatica]

29. The OWS are definitely not taking advice from the 1%

that's why they've been so successful so far. And it hasn't been an accident either.

[white_wolf]

31. This movement doesn't need leaders at least not yet.

Maybe over time a leader or group of leaders will emerge, but that must happen organically, naturally, and democratically.

[pacalo]

32. The brilliance of the protesters is not having any leaders.

We all know how the Republican scumbags work & they'd like nothing better than to single out someone, research for any dirt on them, then undermine the ENTIRE protest because the "leader" isn't perfect.

Kudos to the protesters' forward thinking.

[tavalon]

33. Yep, it's a strength, not a weakness

[fishwax]

35. the apparent lack of hierarchy is clearly confusing and unsettling to a lot of people

But I think a lot of people also find that aspect intriguing and compelling--hopefully compelling enough to work through any initial discomfort :)

[socialist_n_TN]

36. They might not need leaders at this point

but they do need some more specific plans and demands. The consensus model will never come up with anything that will actually work or set a goal that will actually curtail the abuses. They won't even recognize the SYSTEMIC nature of the abuse by calling the out the system for what it is, capitalism.

Until they do, it will merely be diffuse anger without a specific target FOR that anger. And lest anybody accuse me of trying to "co-opt" the OWS for "socialism", I don't even care if the demands ARE socialim or not (at this point), as long as the demands get to the root cause of the abuses.

[Zax2me]

41. Deep down they don't care about you or what think at all.

That is the problem.