Epidemiological meta-study: pot smoking raises risks of auto accidents

[pnwmom]

When and if pot is legalized, there appears to be a need to measure possible impairment, as the blood alcohol test does with alcohol users.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700188349/Pot-use-may-nearly-triple-crash-risk.html

Drivers who have been smoking marijuana are more than twice as likely as other drivers to crash their vehicles, according to research published this month in Epidemiologic Reviews. And if they've been drinking alcohol, as well, the risk climbs higher.

That might have implications in states that allow medical use of marijuana, said study senior author Dr. Guohua Li, a professor of epidemiology at Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health in New York City.

SNIP

The researchers looked at nine earlier studies published in English in six countries that focused on marijuana use in motor vehicle crashes. All but one of them showed increased risk of crashes when the driver used marijuana. That one, from Thailand, was small, they said.

SNIP

One of the studies said driving skills suffer for three or four hours after marijuana use.

Cont. at link

[Bonobo]

1. Sure. Legalize it and make it illegal to smoke and drive.

There SHOULD be a test for impairment, -in fact, if we want it legalized, I think there NEEDS to be one.

But, just my personal opinion, I do not believe that it increases the risk. I have driven high and always tended to be more careful. There is no "drunk" effect in which hand eye coordination becomes compromised.

[pnwmom]

8. Some researchers think it does interfere with driving ability.

From the article at the OP:

"With the new research, experts told USA Today that marijuana may increase the risk of crashes because it could interfere with reaction times and coordination, among other things."

[zazen]

2. people drive on medical marijuana? you're kidding me

Pot seriously impairs driving ability. What kind of dumbass drives while high? That's like driving with a six-pack in you.

I'm all for re-legalization. And for legal consequences for people who drive while under the influence, just as with other legal drugs.

Of course, the lack of a decent public transportation system in this country makes this a lot more difficult than in most places in Europe. Still, I hope no one arguing for re-legalization is advocating driving while impaired.

[Webster Green]

6. "like driving with a six-pack in you"

Bullshit!

[dionysus]

21. i'd say mostly bullshit. i wouldnt want to hop in the car immediately after ripping tubes of dank.

i'd wait a half hour or so

;)

for most driving it's fine.. you won't be speeding and you'll be careful, you won't be swerving like a drunk would. but i wouldn't want to do heavy-traffic city driving stoned, personally.

[JesterCS]

34. total bullshit

read a study, here on DU, that showed people high are LESS likely to wreck and cause accidents because they drive slower.

[FrodosPet]

51. Driving Slower =/= Driving Safer

If you are driving slower than the flow of traffic, you are creating a hazard.

I don't want to get into specifics, but reality is reality - I want to slap myself for hours for having driven stoned in my earlier life. I can recall some incidents due to poor reaction times that make me feel amazed to be alive and not responsible for someone else's death.

I don't support the wasteful war on MJ, but anyone who thinks they are safer driving stoned is either a freak of nature or completely delusional.

[zazen]

59. are others not incoherent on just a few bong hits?

I am. I always have been. It's like a toggle switch. That's why I don't like it. I've driven while drunk, as a teenager, and am lucky I never killed someone. It was terribly irresponsible. However, I still had better control of my faculties and judgment on a six pack than after a few bong hits. I lose sense of time and space. Pot impairs me cognitively and perceptually, immediately. . . alcohol impairs me emotionally, and then much later impairs my motor functions.

I didn't believe there was a pot equivalent of one glass of wine. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[pipi_k]

64. I sure as hell was incoherent...

Never smoked a bong...all my experiences were joints, but the effect was the same.

I'm exquisitely sensitive to ANY type of drug. Even OTC cold medicines, on a child's dosage.

Six pack of beer? HAH! I'd be lucky to still be standing after one can.


Pot, for me, is scary. I've been found sitting in a dark closet all by myself after just a couple of hits.

Never cared for it, and haven't gone near it in over 30 years.


NOTE: This doesn't mean I have a problem with others using it...I just don't care for it myself.

[kestrel91316]

3. Legalize it and regulate it the same as alcohol, INCLUDING serious penalties

for driving under the influence.

But let ME grow it, buy it, use it in the privacy of my own home as long as I don't hurt anyone else directly in the process - SAME AS ALCOHOL.

[pnwmom]

9. I agree. But the question is

since the metabolites stay in the bloodstream longer than alcohol, when will they develop some kind of way of measuring impaired driving?

[surrealAmerican]

16. We need to develop a single test that can actually measure ...

... impairment, rather than measuring metabolites or blood-alcohol. Such a performance based test could be developed. The real danger will be that it will also show drivers who are impaired due to non-drug-related causes, like lack of sleep . However, impaired drivers are a risk regardless of the cause of their impairment.

[Cirque du So-What]

4. Hoo boy

:popcorn:

[Webster Green]

5. Bullshit!

My own testing concludes that this study is bullshit!

This current round of reefer madness, (led by the fierce drug warrior Obama) is truly sickening.

[pnwmom]

7. Nine epidemiological studies vs. your personal opinion.

Okay.

[Uber DUer]

12. 9 studies?

Obviously not enough data.

How many have been drinking while stoned?

I have a friend that drank 5 cans of beer and smoked weed and get into the car and drive like he's stone cold sober.

I have, from experience, driven high, and have been a lot careful when driving. I get aware of little things, and the cops whiz by ALL the time.

I think 50 years of experience from all walks of life has proven that the research is totally wrong.

More research is needed, and I reject that assertation.

Denver, as I understand it, is trying to make it illegal to drive stoned - at 5 ng/ML - that's too low. One needs to be about ~350 ng/ML to be really fucked up. Obviously the legislator has tabled it because not enough studies have shown that it is the "right amount".

[Webster Green]

20. Other studies have shown that stoned drivers tend to be safer drivers.

I wouldn't dream of leaving the house without a joint for the road.

My driving while stoned is an excellent example of perfect harmony between man and machine. :hippie:

[lunasun]

29. yeah when I see some one being a little too careful or driving too slow I think they must

be stoned!..If they are racing around to fast or swerving /not paying attention I think they must be drunk!
I do not think pot = 6 pack

Totally different high 6pk /liqour makes everrything a little blurr & pot makes everything more intense

and how much pot are they talking?

But nowadays there is supposed to be some stronger stuff than in my time and I do not know if its 'laced' now or just stronger strains -so maybe I dont know enuf now to compare
:shrug:

[Webster Green]

31. It isn't laced. It is indeed stronger.

I've heard that the strain called "headband" approaches 30% THC. This would be one or two toke shit, but it doesn't render you unable to drive safely. That said, it's effects will vary from one individual to another. Some folks may be well advised to stay from behind the wheel, while others do just fine. I've been a stoner for so long, that it absolutely does not effect my driving abilities.

Any distraction, such as eating, texting, talking on the cell phone, looking down at a map or anything that makes you lose focus on the road and conditions around you are more dangerous than the fact that you smoked some pot.

[Politicalboi]

37. I guess we differ there

I can smoke till I'm blue in the face with the shit that's around now, and I just may yawn. Nothing affects me today. I really should stop smoking, but I'm always hoping to find the "kind". I was really hoping in Ca prop 19 would have passed so we could get imported stuff. I need a time machine. LOL! I've been smoking pot since 1981. And I partied with people who smoked daily for themselves over 20 years, and they would get the stoner eyes. So their tolerance should have been high like mine now, but the stuff back then kicked their asses and mine. My own study for myself, is that the stuff today is weaker.

[Webster Green]

38. Whaat?

No friggin' way!

A lot of the popular strains are Indica dominant. Look for ones that are Sativa dominant, to get the upper kind of high instead of the couch lock.

I've been toking since 1965, and I smoke like a Rasta. Wish I could roll up a joint of my homegrown for you. :hippie:

[Politicalboi]

35. I'm with ya there

These studies are flawed big time. They should use saliva testing, although, now they have your DNA. Because with the pot now a days, you can't tell by the eyes anymore. They've almost ruined it.

[Uber DUer]

10. Bull fucking shit.

Bull fucking shit.

I think stoned drivers make safer drivers, imho. They get more aware of little things.

[tnlefty]

13. Welcome to DU, Uber DUer!

:hi: and they just might drive slower, too, which IMHO is an improvement.

[Uber DUer]

15. That too.

I just hope we don't act like one of those old farts that drive 20 miles below the speed limit with the left blinker on...

[tnlefty]

24. Well I hope it wouldn't be with the right blinker on...

and I wouldn't be driving.

I did read something a few months ago that teens/young people drive slower when driving and I thought that was a good thing...having 3 sons and all. I've stressed to them don't do anything (toke or drink) and drive.

My Mom has always had a lead foot, my boys used to talk about it, perhaps I should try to slow her down? LOL

[Webster Green]

22. Yes indeed.

And there have been studies that showed that to be true. I could Google and post a link, but I think I'll roll up a fattie instead. :hippie:

[leftstreet]

11. If the Feds really cared about us they'd shut down liquor stores

:cry:

[Uber DUer]

14. A friggin' men.

If weed is worse than alcohol and cigarettes, then I don't wanna live.

(Proud member of the MMJ community)

[tnlefty]

17. Nooo, I cook with Grande Marnier a lot, and that's the only

place that I can purchase wine, which I drink and stay the hell AT HOME, or I would call a cab if necessary.

If the Feds really cared about us they'd end the stupid war on drugs, legalize and allow us to stay the hell AT HOME. But the Feds don't love us.B-)

[rucky]

18. Driving while impaired is already a crime.

how about the countless pharma products that caution people against operating "heavy machinery"?

[pnwmom]

26. If they had studies showing that using those drugs increased the risks

by 2 or 3 times, I'd say we should more closely regulate their use before driving, too.

[Unvanguard]

19. Well duh. n/t

[mitchtv]

23. Use the tests that already exist

touch your nose, walk on a line,you know the impairment tests for DUI. If one passes it, they should be able to drive

[pnwmom]

25. Some people have neurological conditions that make those tests difficult

but don't impair their driving. They can ask for the breathalyzer instead. What options will there be for those people if impairment due to marijuana use is suspected?

[Uber DUer]

27. a piss test

but it is a violation of privacy rights. If the cops wants me to piss, I ask them for a search warrant first.

No judge would sign a warrant for a piss test - waste of time, resources and manpower.

[Lyric]

28. A urinanalysis doesn't measure impairment. It just tests for the presence of THC.

THC stays in your body for up to 30 days after you use it. The presence of THC does not necessarily mean that you're driving while stoned; it just means that you used marijuana at some point in the past month.

We need a test for impairment, not THC.

[Uber DUer]

39. That is true...

And you need to send it to the lab for a specific analysis on THC levels....

I've pissed off enough probation officers to last the rest of my life.

Did 3 months in prison as a result of that. In Texas. Not an easy thing to do.

[Fumesucker]

32. I find it hard to believe someone's kinesthesia could be screwed up to the point..

To the point they can't touch their own nose and yet they would still be able to drive safely.

Without a reasonably accurate kinesthesic sense you aren't going to be able to properly operate the controls of a car.

[pnwmom]

50. I was thinking about people with problems with balance.

They might be able to pass parts of the physical tests, such as touching their noses, but not others. And they don't have problems sitting in a car and driving.

[Fumesucker]

67. I've had a touch of vertigo a few times in my life..

Fortunately it's only happened when I'm getting up in the morning I certainly wouldn't want to be driving at the time, if I felt such an attack coming on I'd pull over immediately, in some ways it felt quite a bit like being drunk.

All else being equal a person with balance problems is not going to be as competent a driver as someone who does not have balance problems, "seat of the pants" driving is important when driving under slippery conditions and that's got a lot to do with one's sense of balance.

[RainDog]

47. a saliva test can indicate if someone has consumed cannabis within a few hours

this is the critical time for the use of cannabis and driving if someone wants to test for impairment.

this test exists.

the window corresponds to the general amount of time that someone would be considered to be "high" from the consumption of cannabis.

so, doesn't seem like a problem to me. the test exists.

[surrealAmerican]

58. In an age where hand-held computers are cheap and widely available ...

... it should not be this difficult to come up with a field sobriety test that actually tests for the dexterity, visual-spacial perception, and reaction times necessary to drive safely.


It shouldn't matter why a driver is impaired: if they are impaired, they should not be driving.

[Politicalboi]

30. This is a bunch of shit

This was probably paid for through Big Pharma or Big Booze, and the DEA. Fuck them and their "study".

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. I smoked heavily several years ago and I never had any car

accidents - largely because I didn't drive that much at that time. But I certainly became very forgetful and clumsy on little things - the kind of little things that would be similar in nature to the little things one needs to be on top of when driving.

Having said this, I do believe marijuana should be legalized and controlled. But it is foolish and naive to imagine that usage - especially heavy usage of this or any other mind and mood altering substance is not with out side effects. As bad as alcohol? Of course not - but still not harmeless either.

[OnyxCollie]

36. Driving while on the phone is much more dangerous. nt

[Uber DUer]

40. Or texting while on a highway.

Today on the Capitol Freeway heading north, I actually saw a Dodge Charger with no tire on the driver's rear side, in the middle of the road, impeding traffic for over 20 minutes. Maryland State Patrol was present, with the flares on the ground. That car was totally disabled. only the brake and caliper was visible. Not even a rim.

How is that even possible?

[pnwmom]

43. No one should text while driving on any road. n/t

[RainDog]

48. but texting should not be illegal just because people should not combine it with driving

we don't need to randomly pull people over to test them for anything. that is a huge violation of rights - and I don't care if the test is for cannabis, alcohol or text message times.

if there is a reason to question someone's fitness for driving, we have ways to indicate impairment.

I don't see how this test has any bearing on whether or not cannabis should be legal. but the thread does allow people to state they drive under the influence and to argue about this.

however, most people seem to agree that someone can, say, drink a glass of wine with dinner and then drive two hours later. the same would be the case for cannabis for a lot of people, too.

or, in a perfect world, we would put money from the drug war into light rail and public transit so that people could drive less - a good thing for reasons having nothing to do with cannabis. but why not think about ways that good ideas can serve multiple purposes - get drunk drivers off the road, reduce carbon footprints and make roads less congested for bicycles, etc.

sounds like a winning idea, to me.

in the meantime, we have ways to check for impairment that are far more accurate than blood or urine tests and those are ones that should be used when someone demonstrates they might not be capable of driving - for whatever reason.

[pnwmom]

49. Is there evidence that drinking a single glass of wine

doubles or triples the risk of causing an automobile crash? If so, then we should ban any amount of alcohol before driving.

[RainDog]

52. lol. you miss the point. the time of impairment for cannabis is approx. 2 hours

ONLY one study said that there was a MAXIMUM time of 3 to 4 hours out of the nine.

so, using your own link here, the saliva test that indicates impairment is sufficient for use to test if anyone is within that avg. time frame of two hours. the study doesn't say that ANY use of cannabis impairs driving. the study says that cannabis use within a MAXIMUM WINDOW of four hours (and that's the one outlier in the study - again, the average is two hours, which is the same range most effective for a saliva test) - may cause impairment in some drivers.

so, I don't think you need to worry about banning wine with dinner or banning cannabis with a movie at a friend's house.

it's entirely rational to go forward with cannabis legalization with the tools that are now available to test for impairment. In addition, as with drinking and driving, health organizations can (and, I imagine, will) create ads that help to discourage people from driving under the influence.

I really don't see the big issue here - there are solutions to this issue.

[pnwmom]

54. I'm not familiar with a saliva test. Do you have information about that? n/t

[RainDog]

56. you can google and find loads of information n/t

[Umbral]

41. I always put on my goofy underwear before reading the Deseret News....

it makes reading a Mormon owned rag feel more... 'real'.

[pnwmom]

42. The research was reported in an academic journal.

USA Today also had a report on it. But this particular article was on the top of the list on the Google news page. FWIW.

[Umbral]

44. It's not worth much, I'm not going to credence a media outlet that has an unmistakable agenda

particularly one as heinous at the Mormon Church. I realize it's an ad hominem, I just don't care.

[pnwmom]

45. You're avoiding the issue. You don't have to believe the Deseret News about anything.

The meta-study was reported in the Oxford Journals Epidemiologic Reviews, which was linked in the Deseret article.

http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/10/04/epirev.mxr017.abstract?sid=c231e4cc-aab9-4642-877b-6f60d7858eb5

To assess the association between marijuana use and crash risk, the authors performed a meta-analysis of 9 epidemiologic studies published in English in the past 2 decades identified through a systematic search of bibliographic databases. Estimated odds ratios relating marijuana use to crash risk reported in these studies ranged from 0.85 to 7.16. Pooled analysis based on the random-effects model yielded a summary odds ratio of 2.66 (95% confidence interval: 2.07, 3.41).

[RainDog]

53. but you leave out the important part that says impairment has a small window of 2 hours

or, in the case of one study - a maximum of four hours.

the study does not say that any use impairs driving.

[pnwmom]

55. It impairs driving during that time period. Which people should be aware of,

when they're using. Clearly, not everyone is. Some people are even of the opinion that marijuana improves their driving.

[RainDog]

57. yes. people who want to muddy the water like to focus on this subset

that makes claims about their driving/use. it's the cannabis issue equivalent of a reality show.

the truth, however, stands that you never bothered to clarify the window of use that was part of the studies. Instead, you said "marijuana use."

don't need to muddy the waters that way either.

we have examples of other issues that we've dealt with via public health. this one is no big difference.

[Safetykitten]

46. Here we go, the I can drive stoned defense.

[hobbit709]

60. in my personal experience in over 40 years of pot smoking

The only accident which I had during driving while stoned was being plowed into by an idiot that ran a light and plowed into me.

This BS pops up every few years

[SoDesuKa]

61. Booze Leads to Unwanted Pregnancies

It's a fact. Studies show that alcohol consumption creates a "party" atmosphere and lowers inhibitions. Proceed with caution.



Impairs Judgement

[MindPilot]

62. Bull-fucking-shit!

With all the hysteria about this or that causing more crashes, the fact is that accident, injuries and fatalities have been trending down for the past several decades, despite there being more people driving more miles in more cars on more roads.

If you want to do "meta-data" studies you can probably come up with numbers that show men who wear boxers are more likely to be involved in an auto accident than men in briefs. And the study shows "an increased risk". You know what the most significant factor which increases the risk of being involved in an auto accident? Driving a car.

Every day in my travels on the freeways I see people talking, toking, texting, eating, putting on make up, shaving, reading and all within a few feet of each other at 75 or 80 mph. And you know what happens? Exactly nothing; we all get where we are going without so much as swapping paint.

[NYC_SKP]

63. Of course it impairs one's ability to drive...

I'm surprised that people think it doesn't.

:P

[The Midway Rebel]

65. The biggest danger in pot smoking while driving is during...

the dangerous "rolling of the doobie" process. It takes skills to de-seed pot while driving with your knees and that final twist is always a trick. Stiil safer than pouring a Highball while driving though.

[MindPilot]

68. Especially if you have to answer a text at the same time.

Just the other day I had to put down my beer to steer around some stupid kids in the crosswalk in front of a school.

[Warren Stupidity]

66. again? Didn't you get a clue last time?

[Warren Stupidity]

69. please provide the automobile fatality statistics correlated with

marijuana use. At best (or worst in your view) all the prohibitionists can claim is a less than 1% correlation. And there is very little corroborating evidence of causation. Unlike alcohol, or a whole host of legal pharmaceuticals, which can be demonstrably shown to drastically impair driving ability.

Where is your outrage over the horrors of automobile accidents associated with prescription drug use and the lack of specific tests for such impairment?

[OnyxCollie]

70. Always pack your bowl BEFORE you start driving.

Picking out the seeds while driving is dangerous.