DAVID FRUM: It's Time We Republicans Finally Admitted That Paul Krugman Has Been Right

[MattSh]

Krugman spotted the "liquidity trap" early on (since the problem with the economy was too much debt, cutting rates and creating easier money would not get us out of it).

Krugman shot down the hyperventilation about a coming hyper-inflation, arguing that the global labor glut would prevent easy credit from inflating wages.

Krugman quickly pronounced the Obama Administration's stimulus as far too small and said it would not get the job done.

Krugman scoffed at the idea that interest rates were about to skyrocket as our creditors decided en masse that we were so fiscally irresponsible that they couldn't possibly lend us any more money.

He has been right on all counts.

http://www.businessinsider.com/david-frum-paul-krugman-right-2011-10

[Maven]

1. It's time some Democrats admitted that too.

K/R

[MattSh]

2. Yep

How true that is.

[mmonk]

17. But what do independents think? It's not about right and wrong for

the country but perceived paths to electoral victory, appearances, and of course, donations for and avoiding donations against by the monied.

[blm]

21. 70% of OWS protestors polled said they're Independents. 28% said they're Ds. 2% said Rs.

.

[tpsbmam]

35. Link

I've missed a lot lately due to surgery and other stuff.....interesting poll results. I wish it were a more scientific poll, but glad to have this anyway to pass around.

Here's a link to the poll results: http://occupywallst.org/article/70-percent-ows-supporters-independent/

[blm]

37. posted it around FB last week. heheh...GOPs don't want to hear it

they convinced themselves it's all leftist rabblerousers protesting and that they would alienate the independent voters

[fascisthunter]

47. love it!

[rhett o rick]

30. At some point the conservatives are going to recognize that the Republicon Party

today isnt adhering to conservative values.

[lindysalsagal]

41. There's absolutely nothing conservative about George Bush.

Where were the conservatives when he drove us over a cliff?

Standing by with their hands out, waiting for the war proceeds to roll in.

[rhett o rick]

42. Agree that Bush isnt conservative. And that the conservatives stood by while

their party was co-opted by the overlords with their army of loonies. They sold their souls to be on the winning side. Some of these conservatives have already abandoned the loony party and are now dragging the Democratic party to the right. Almost all of Pres Obama's appointments are conservatives. I think at some point they will want their party back.

[phantom power]

26. +1

[rhett o rick]

31. +2

[City Lights]

43. Indeed! eom

[SkyDaddy7]

69. It also time for many Democrats to admit...

The Obama Administration & the leadership within the Democratic Party in Congress at the time of the passage of the stimulus plan did all they could to pass the largest plan possible. Yes, it should have been at least double what it was like Krugman was saying at the time but there is a difference between what it should have been vs what was politically possible at the time.

All of us Democrats should stop looking for reasons to fight each other & come together to ensure above all that the Republicans do not win full control of the Government...Then we will have 4yrs to push for the changes we want instead of watching the Republicans put the death nail in the middle class!

[animato]

78. +100

[alittlelark]

3. I've been a disciple for many years..

I wish others in my family had been able to 'see the light'.

[calimary]

4. Indeed! Krugman has been spot-on for YEARS.

And roundly denounced by those CONS, including david frum, who all "knew better."

[JCMach1]

5. Long time past time to appoint Krugman as the Fed Chair with Reich as Treasury Sec.

[defendandprotect]

54. That would be interesting!! But FED has to go -- a criminal enterprise ... we've just had

almost 100 banks "under supervision of FED" fail this year !!

Reason? "Critically undercapitalized" -- !!

This is all farce --

It is the people who create an economy --- and it is elite institutions like

the FED who manipulate economies for their own benefit.

[bhikkhu]

71. Their job is not to manipulate, but to promote economic growth

- through community development and fair access to credit.

While they may do the job poorly, if the fed were done away with another institution would have to be created with essentially the same goal.

I think it would be better to require that the job be done well.

[defendandprotect]

75. "Promote economic profit for elites" is more what their job is ... often in last decades by

limiting job growth --

And since when is it wise to reward any system or institution which does any job "poorly"?

Again -- BANKS DO NOT CREATE ECONOMIES -- the citizens create economies.

Fed -- and other financial institutions serve the wealthy -- and manipulate economies for

their benefit.

I'm sure you understand as well what Geithner did -- and what Greenspan did?

Those things don't happen by accident!

And picking financial teams which serve the elite/coporations also doesn't happen by accident!

What we've suffered was a financial coup -- and those who created it were put in charge of

fixing it -- by Obama!

[bhikkhu]

82. In their proper role, banks serve economies

Currently things are more in balance, or heading in that direction, if you look at the difference in the size of banks versus 2007:



I know there are various theories of cause and effect, and who's to blame, and how to fix things...I'm not much of an expert on most of that. I do know that banks lost a huge amount in the recession, and more current charts show they haven't regained ground - they are still shrinking. I think that's ok, and the financial reforms put in place should help to keep it that way.

[defendandprotect]

83. That's like saying that our police enforcers "serve the public" -- Really???? ROFL

Again -- people create the economy -- we can have an economy without banks --

and without financial institutions and hierarchies of finance --

You can't have an economy without the public --

What we have clearly had is a financial coup -- again.

And it has happened with the collusion of financial institutions.


Capitalism is over -- and so is the two-party duopoly -- that's the message of those

on the streets.

[bhikkhu]

84. Its possible to pursue various solutions towards goals of equality

But not everything works equally; several miserable failures to achieve equality were had in the past century under communist themes, several absolute dictatorships have had benevolent equality (for everyone below the ruler) as a goal, even the teaparty imagined they were advocating policies that would increase wealth and opportunity for all.

Not everything works, and abolishing banks is hardly likely to improve things; they serve a very useful purpose in society.

I think its preferable to look at what does work, and there are many examples. Sweden is a good one, with institutions and policies reasonably similar to our own, and with banks, of course. Looking at the distribution of wealth in their country as an example, I think it might be more constructive to consider how they do it, and how to chart a path from here to there, so to speak.



In the graph, the wealth of the bottom 10% is represented by black shading, the next 10% by dark grey, and so forth. In the US, the bottom 20% barely register, but in a more ably governed nation they have a substantial share...

Good policies can have good results, and good government is worth working toward.

[defendandprotect]

86. FED is not a democratic institution -- if you want democracy you need economic democracy ....

FED ain't it -- !!

[Lasher]

64. I expected something like that when Obama first took office.

I was wrong.

[MedicalAdmin]

6. Dear David, start wearing a flack jacket. You'll need it.

They don't like betrayal. And they will come for you. You are on their list now.

[GoCubsGo]

23. Apparently, he has been taking flack for a while.

The extremists on the right drove him to quit his commentary position on the nightly business review on NPR. He served as counter to Robert Reich, and it seems there are some who were upset that he held positions that were not extremist enough.

[defendandprotect]

55. NPR/PBS are solely owned by the rw elites --- and Robert Reich served them -- !!!

And was highly rewarded for the dirty work he did -- !!

[davepc]

25. He's been exiled for years. He's been a lone voice of 'moderation'

The current right hates him because he's been saying early and often the current track of the Republican party is leading to demographic irrelevance.

aka, hating the biggest growing segment of the population is not a path to future success. He's also pointed out that various anti-gay culture warrior stuff has little to no traction in people under 25.

[MedicalAdmin]

27. Oh he's right about alot of things.

Or at least able to identify when someone else is right.

But this is the first time he has gone directly after the MONEY, and that is when people get shot in this country. MLK, Malcolm, JFK...

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

7. holy shit this is real !!! i was expecting headline was sarcastic.

[defendandprotect]

56. Seems FRUM noticed the folks in the streets? Msg of OWS is both parties are finished --!!

They are in the streets because they recognize that both parties have the

same corporate agenda and it has nothing to do with protecting the general

welfare!!

[WCGreen]

8. Krugman is a workman like economist, using the tools that have

worked for years at predicting outcomes and then how they should be applied while the rest of these neocon develop ways to scam the system...

[MFrohike]

9. Found this on Frum's blog

I'm really having a hard time believing he wrote it. It's just mindblowing when you consider the source.

http://www.frumforum.com/dont-blame-the-young#more-105834

[Firebrand Gary]

10. Sorry David, you are about to get hammered for telling the truth to your own party.

You got to give him credit for that. It's easy to stand up to your opponent, it's harder to stand up to your own friends.

[Mudoria]

11. Frum saw the light awhile back

he's still a conservative but his mind isn't closed shut and he admits when a standard repub policy stance is wrong.

[rhett o rick]

29. At some point the conservatives are going to split with the wacka-doodles. nm

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. well he is a Canadian

Actually Mr. Frum has been absolutely livid about the rise of the Tea Party and the Sarah Palin wing of the Republican Party for some time. I would guess that Mr. Frum is still pretty much a foreign policy neoconservative - I have not so far heard him reaching any soul searching changes in attitude about those matters, if he has. But I think that for some time he has been quite leary of the of what he sees as completely irresponsible domestic and social policy.

[Syrinx]

13. it should be noted that those aren't Frum's words in the OP

Those are the words of Henry Blodget.

Following is the quote of Frum that Blodget elucidates.

Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Wall Street Journal editorial page between 2000 and 2011, and someone in the same period who read only the collected columns of Paul Krugman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of the current economic crisis? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?

And why does Frum call the people he merely disagrees with "enemies?"

[Enrique]

18. he's referenceing a Susan Sontag quote from 1982

here's Frum's blog post:

http://www.frumforum.com/were-our-enemies-right

In February 1982, Susan Sontag made a fierce challenge to a left-wing audience gathered at New York’s Town Hall:

Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Reader’s Digest between 1950 and 1970, and someone in the same period who read only The Nation or The New Statesman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of Communism? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?

Posing that question won Sontag only boos from an audience that the New York Times described as “startled.” Yet the question has only gained power over the intervening years. It contributed to the rise of a healthier, more realistic left much less tempted to make excuses for “progressive” dictatorships than the left of the last generation. If Hugo Chavez has any defenders on the contemporary American left, I haven’t heard of them.

(...)

If I can’t follow where most of my friends have gone, it is because I keep hearing Susan Sontag’s question in my ears. Or rather, a revised and updated version of that question:

Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Wall Street Journal editorial page between 2000 and 2011, and someone in the same period who read only the collected columns of Paul Krugman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of the current economic crisis? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?

[Faryn Balyncd]

66. Interesting that in looking for an example of someone who thinks for themself rather than blindly

...following the crowd, Frum does NOT find an example from the right, but Sontag.


Frum has learned that just about everyone who once was on the right who thinks for themselves is no longer part of present day "conservatism".

[piratefish08]

14. Krugman's back from under the bus? there's hope yet!

[trumad]

15. Only thrown under by a few knuckleheads

here on DU...the majority love him.

[Doctor_J]

20. Only until he says that the president needs to fight the right instead of joining them

then he'll be a detested PUMA again.

[Vinca]

16. I thought Frum was on the GOP black list. He's too close to sane.

[riderinthestorm]

19. I guess it's better that it came at all, even though it's too little too late. nt

[GoCubsGo]

22. Frum left NPR's evening business show, where he was the counter to Robert Reich.

And, it had nothing to do with Robert Reich. He said it was because he no longer represented the conservative point of view--they moved too far to the RIGHT for his liking. I find this piece extremely interesting in that light. Looks like Frum is finally seeing the light. Wish he had done so sooner.

[ThomWV]

24. You'd think Nobel Laureate Obama would listen to Nobel Laureate Krugman

You'd think, wouldn't ya?

[rhett o rick]

32. Instead he listens to Jeff Immelt, Bernanke and the rest of the 1%. nm

[Nye Bevan]

28. I've always liked Krugman, although many DUers disagree with his pro-free trade stance,

He once famously quipped that, "If there were an Economist's Creed, it would surely contain the affirmations 'I understand the Principle of Comparative Advantage' and 'I advocate Free Trade'."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krugman#Free_trade

[zipplewrath]

45. The problem with free trade

Krugman likes free trade in theory, and also likes it in the real world in specific places. However, much of the world is not engaged in "free" trade and it is in those real world applications that the trouble starts.

Krugman believes "free" trade with China, in opposition to many progressives, because he doesn't worry about the short term/social implications of it as much as the larger economic effects. Free trade with China benefits the US in many ways that Krugman finds important. Progressives don't agree with the degree of that importance.

[Uncle Joe]

33. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, MattSh.

[TygrBright]

34. Krugman is the JM Keynes of our generation. n/t

[alfredo]

36. Now, get on your street clothes and join us.

[XemaSab]

38. .

[Demeter]

62. He's not the only one

Thanks for the chuckle!

[Richardo]

74. !!!

:rofl:

[WillyT]

39. K & R !!!

:kick:

[Laelth]

40. k&r for Krugman, proving, once again, that liberals are right 99% of the time. n/t

-Laelth

[City Lights]

44. K&R for Krugman! eom

[tcaudilllg]

46. Krugman has a good heart.

And where you find a good heart, there too will you find good ideas.

[ProgressiveATL]

48. "Axis of Evil" David Frum? So a decade of war enough for him?

Frum's framing in Jan 2002 gave Bush the hall pass he sought to wage war, and bankrupted our country on multiple fronts.

Background of phrase here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil

Happily, his wife was super proud of her husband's stunning oversimplification, this from Guardian:

"In her email to friends and family, Mrs Frum wrote: "I realise this is very 'Washington' of me to mention but my husband is responsible for the axis of evil segment in Tuesday's state of the union address. It's not often a phrase one writes gains national notice... so I hope you'll indulge my wifely pride in seeing this one repeated in headlines everywhere!"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/feb/27/usa.matthewengel

Here's a trick question. I've known Krugman has been right all along. How about you? And those WMD? Were you aware there were none? Yeah, me too.

Frum exhibits evidence of tiny bit of brain cell matter for first time ever, and I'm wondering why. For a guy who foments hate and war, truth ain't so important. My guess, he's trying to situate himself as wise elder, to up those speaking and writing fees. You know, pull a Palin. Or, does he have book coming out? Running for president, cheapest book tour Newt Gingrich and Herman Cain can imagine. Frum has to be more creative, not running for president and all, saying something unexpected would certainly fit the bill.

[AlbertCat]

70. Frum exhibits evidence of tiny bit of brain cell matter for first time ever

To me it looks like he wants to be on the winning side, and will advocate what he thinks is the coming zeitgeist. This means he feels the GOP has nothing to offer (which it doesn't) but doesn't care except where it affect him and his public persona. He obviously feels the Right is too looney now for anyone to stay with in the next few years and wants to be elsewhere... on the winning side. The McConnells and Boehners are sounding too out of it and sinking fast, in his view. It's self preservation.

[MannyGoldstein]

49. Best news I've heard in months

If the Republicans are in favor of Krugman, then Democrats will finally listen to him and do most of what he suggests.

Let's hope that Frum can get his fellow Republicans to sign up.

[Jack Rabbit]

50. Remember, this is the same Republican who was fired from the American Enterprise Institute

. . . for calling the Republican opposition to health care reform outrageous and dangerous.

He's not going to get his fellow Republicans to "sign up." As a group, this is a party that still thinks that invading Iraq was not only the right thing to do but was successful, still thinks trickle-down economics work and still thinks the Frat Boy was a defender of the Constitution.

[Motown_Johnny]

51. Can everyone admit he was right about Reaganomics too?

From 2008, before the crash.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/reaganomics/



^snips^

First, the unemployment rate. What this figure shows is that “Morning in America” was a one-shot affair — a recovery from a very severe recession.


Next, incomes. These are inflation-adjusted after-tax income for the richest 1 percent and the middle quintile, from the Congressional Budget Office, both expressed as indexes with 1979=100. Big gains for the rich, not so much for the middle class:


Next, the poverty rate, up during the recession then down again, but never regaining its previous low:


In short, the Reagan economy was a story of recession and recovery, but not of any sustained improvement in performance. That didn’t come until the middle Clinton years.

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

52. Obama could cure cancer

and the GOP would say it was just another example of socialized medicine.

[defendandprotect]

53. Everyone knew the stimulus was only 20% of what was needed -- and Obama settled for less!!!

[roberto IS beto]

57. rat bastard republican

It is a sad day when a rat bastard Republican like Frum gets liberal kuddos for supposedly being "middle-of-the-road".

He writes that he is against unions, is in favor of health insurance companies running health care, in favor of killing people at the end of their lives, against Mexican immigrants, and was a Republican when Ronnie Rayguns took office in 1981.

And that gets him worshipped as a liberal saint?

Sad day for liberals.

[Beartracks]

58. Most Repubs who may agree are still going to waste time...

... and energy trying to figure out how to implement policies that Krugman would support and make it look like a grand Republican plan while dissing Krugman as being wrong (since he's <gasp> a liberal!).

:eyes:

-----------------

[TNLib]

59. I'm not too surprised budget cuts, will affect the pentagon, which will not sit well with neocons

nt

[Demeter]

60. Hell will Freeze Over--Shouldn't Obama Be the First to Repent?

and maybe little Timmy Geithner, and Good Ole Uncle Ben Bernanke? And all of Congress except Alan Grayson, Whitehouse, Sherrod Brown, and a few other non-sycophants?

[Bill USA]

61. recommended and bookmarked!

[enki23]

63. And yet, in that first sentence, he demonstrates that he doesn't even know what Krugman was saying.

.

[Remember Me]

65. Quick, look outside -- are pigs flying? nt

[katty]

67. He certainly has! and tea party time is over

[davidwparker]

68. Amen. Amen. Amen.

[DuaneBidoux]

72. Republicans know this but won't say it. Above all they fear government period.

In fact, if anything they are terrified that it WILL work. Virtually every action a Republican takes today is driven by one and only one consideration: a profound sense of fear of the government.

It really is that simple.

[unkachuck]

73. K&R....now if we could get our side to admit Krugman was/is right....n/t

[lutherj]

76. First Paul Krugman, then Karl Marx.

[burrowowl]

77. YES!

[scentopine]

79. Wall Street has strip-mined all the wealth from USA and is moving to find new marks

in the so called global economy. Wall Street is laughing at Krugman because Wall Street could take a giant shit on the heads of every person in USA, and our 5 or 6 media outlets would waste no time telling us it doesn't smell.

[Electric Monk]

80. K&R

&U&G&M&A&N

[woo me with science]

81. K&R nt

[AikidoSoul]

85. What Frum actually said was that Krugman "...MIGHT be right..."

Frum was not willing to give him full,unequivocal credit. :-(