I'm not trying to defend that tear gassing cop, but

[salinen]

a friend of mine, who died a few years ago, was a WW2 vet. He was a machine gunner. There was always another guy who fed the magazine into the gun, and also set up the tripod base. One day they were called to the front line, and the gun was placed. Forward on their position they had were american infantry, crawling toward the enemy position. As my friend began to fire, the front leg of the tripod base began to sink into the sand. It caused my friend to instinctively grab the gun, which is how the gun is fired. He accidentally killed his own guys.

Now this story doesn't exonerate the cop. Was he just following orders? Was he uncoordinated, and meant to shoot the tear gas over the heads of people. Why was tear gas even there? Is the city/state policy for the first amendment being denied?

I blame this corrupted system, the culture, the media, slightly ahead of the actual cop. If the goon cop takes heat, then where is the real justice? I see Eric Cantor and Mitch McConnel having more responsibility for poor Scott Olsen than the cop. They've done everything the 1% asks of them, and caused incalculable harm to the citizens. Denying health care is as violent as it gets.

I don't know, maybe I'm goofy.

[MH1]

1. Recc'd to 0. Thanks for an alternative view.

I think some would say the individual as a responsibility to not go along with the bad practices they're told to use. That they should walk rather than continue in such a job.

But few if any writing on this discussion board were there at all, and none of us know exactly what transpired from the cop's POV. It's not 'making excuses' to consider that there might be factors we don't know.

[FSogol]

2. You are not goofy. You see the cops as people in a tough situation.

You can see that it might be a accident, or mistake, as well as being on purpose. Viewing a situation from multiple viewpoints is a liberal trait.
My 2 cents.

[Duer 157099]

3. True. And then the second round when rescue was attempted

that is one uncoordinated mofo who never should have passed cop school.

[Marazinia]

4. Don't let them make an example of the cop

Don't be fooled into thinking one cop is the cause of what happened to the protester. If people scream for the cop's badge and actually get it, it's not only unjust to single one person out for punishment when it's the city policymakers who should be first on the chopping block to begin with, it's an easy out for those policymakers. Just like prosecuting a few Abu Ghraib prison guards was an out for policymakers who condoned torture. If heads are going to roll, the heads need to roll, not their hands and feet. Cops are just hands and feet, and many of them are truly doing their best to serve and protect in a dangerous job. Go after the ones who sent those cops against the protesters, go after the agent provocateurs in your midst who start fights so it's the protesters who look violent. Go after smear campaign agents who spread the lies of bigotry and hatred when bigotry and hatred are incompatible with all labor and social movements.

[salinen]

6. Abu Ghraib

is exactly what came to my mind too.

[coalition_unwilling]

19. Rodney King for me (and the circle of cops who stood around

doing nothing while the 4 LAPD cops clubbed the shit out of King).

But I take your point.

[Tesha]

14. So cops should follow illegal orders and skate when they do? Wow! (NT)

[Marazinia]

28. Of course not

But prosecutions should, whenever possible, start from the top down.

[uppityperson]

24. AND go after the ones who shot the protesters and those who stood by and watched.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. Some tear gas -was- shot in arcs over and into the crowd as is correct procedure,

you can see it in the video. However, Scott was standing about ten feet in front of the police line. There is no way a canister fired at that angle, that could hit him at say five and a half feet from ground level, could have been reasonably expected to make it over the crowd. Especially since the two helicopters cut their internet live feeds before police began shooting. Media were forbidden by police at the scene.

And most especially since the police, trained to protect and serve, stood there while Scott lay on the ground in unknown condition.

Then they threw a flash-bang into a group which gathered to do what protectors and servers should always do: Help the injured.

Then the police who knew the culprit didn't turn him in. No one in the video even looked sideways when he flash-banged Scott's rescuers. It was all okay to them.

Then police and the city of Oakland LIED, saying that protesters were throwing M-80s at police, that's where the loud noises came from, and that police didn't use rubber bullets/rubber sting shot.

If you wish to believe that someone may have been careless with their weapon, don't you need training to be allowed to use them? If not, they were likely told a single sentence regarding the only correct use: Aim upward so the device lands in the center of the crowd, do not shoot level/horizontally. If they cannot follow this kind of simple direction, they need to be penalized significantly for fucking up. If the police are handing out these weapons to anyone and everyone, the police need to be significantly fined and disarmed. "None of you can be trusted with guns, so I'm taking them away from you!" -Superman television show.

[salinen]

7. That's another angle

that these cops are poorly trained.

[uppityperson]

9. So poorly trained that they shoot into and at people rather than past them?

I doubt it. That is taking away too much personal responsibility from those cops.

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. Exactly. Anyone can get "shoot over their heads, not AT them". Much culpability if not.

If it =was= a fuck-up, none of the cops around did a thing about it, to even turn to them and tell them how to do so. I see none of them in the videos looking around or at each other, signifying that no one had a problem at all. And no one stepped forward to say "someone fucked up".

[krispos42]

26. They shoot guns. They know how sights work.

Even if they don't come from a gun-loving background and only shoot their service sidearm the minimum number of times necessary to remain current, they know that if you sight along the barrel at a person a mere 3 or 4 yards away, whatever comes out of that barrel is gong to smash into it.


Yeah, okay, if the Marine was a couple of hundred yards away and the police were mortaring tear gas canisters over the crowd and towards a street to seal it off, and one fell a little short and whacked the guy in the head, then yeah, that's an accident. Nobody to blame, because I doubt a tear-gas launcher is accurate enough to reliable hit a person 200 yards away.


But this? Shit. The muzzle velocity is 247 ft/s, which is about 170 miles per hour, TWICE what a major-league pitcher can achieve. EVERYBODY knows that nailing a person in the head with a 85-mph fastball at a range of 10 feet could easily be crippling and maybe even fatal; double the speed and make it steel and it's several times worse.

Either the cop was gunning for him or he had a negligent discharge; either way he's liable.

[uppityperson]

8. Was throwing another one into the group that went to aid Scott also due to un-coordination?

The one that spewed smoke and flashed? Was that one due to un-coordination also?

[salinen]

12. Cops are the mercenaries

who are the Generals?

[KittyWampus]

10. I blame the commanding officer.

[county worker]

22. I am a Vietnam veteran and anything resulting from my discharging my weapon was my fault!

I can't blame my platoon leader for something I did or didn't do.

[JVS]

11. You gotta punish a lot of goons before you get to the bosses.

[Jumping John]

13. So gassing people who have not done anything wrong - except exercise their right to protest -

is comparable to some vague incident in a war, that sounds like Bullshit?

"I don't know, maybe I'm goofy."

I think I know.

[libertypirate]

15. People need a symbol of a bad apple more than they need to know

the rotten apples will be handled. This role needs to be filled by a person who did something very wrong.

Allowing the system to officially hide these people gives the system power it shouldn't have to cover it's own ass.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. Here's a thought...the cops shouldn't have been there..period. No cops..No violence happens.

:shrug:

[coalition_unwilling]

18. Also rec'ed to 0. Your argument deserves to be made and heard, whether

we agree or disagree. The question of who is to blame deserves to be addressed in detail with thoughtfulness and not with sound bytes, imo.

You are not goofy, although I tend to disagree and think this cop is responsible. But opinions are like assholes, i.e., everyone has one, and I would prefer an official investigation conducted by the U.S. Dept. of Justice.

[county worker]

20. The cops should not have been there in the first place. They did not need

to use those weapons on a peaceful demonstration. The cops were wrong and there is no defense for them.

[SharksBreath]

21. It's called seeing the big picutre.

It's my opinion that if Obama and the Dems would have done what they ran on then OWS would not be needed.

Unfortunately for our country it looks like OWS is the last thing to save it.

Because the Dems have tried to put bandages on and in some cases opened up scars when we needed "REAL CHANGE".

They have failed horribly. Mostly at fighting Republicans.

[WinkyDink]

23. The VietNam Conflict was as unjust as it gets, but Lt. Calley was still guilty as h***.

[EFerrari]

25. The video doesnt show him having any trouble shooting the protester at all. nt

[Jumping John]

27. "As my friend began to fire, the front leg of the tripod base began to sink into the sand. It caused

my friend to instinctively grab the gun, which is how the gun is fired."

So he was firing the weapon telepathically?

LOL