Dems Cave; Pass Obama Tax Cut Sell-Out

[unlawflcombatnt]

In a show absolute political debauchery, House Dems voted overwhelmingly to pass the Obama tax Cut Plan for the Rich.

The final vote on the bill--HR 4853--was 277 yes, 148 no

Despite lying House Speaker Pelosi's promise not to bring the bill to the floor in its "current form," she DID bring it to the floor without any changes.

In fact, the Republicans could have all gone home. And the bill would have still passed, as the Dems voted overwhelmingly in favor of the bill 139-112.

Let me repeat that.
If just the Dems had voted, the bill STILL would have passed.

Pelosi, for all her hot air dissemination and fake indignation with the Republicans, had the option not to bring the bill to the floor. And had promised to do so if it remained in its current form.

She lied. She brought it to the floor where her own party alone voted to pass it--139 Dems yes; 112 Dems no.

[somone]

1. And open the door for Obama's Trojan horse to dismantle Social Security

[Mojambo]

2. Reaganomics remains ascendant.

/Puke

[unlawflcombatnt]

5. Robt. Reich's words exactly

Reagonomics Redux

Obama has continued to falsely claim "economists supported his plan."

Yeah, if he only talked to Bush economists.

Apparently he didn't talk to James Kwak, Dean Baker, William K. Black, Paul Krugman, or Michael Hudson.

He did, however, talk with super Corporatist and globalist Larry Summers.

[femrap]

30. I remember Reich back in

his days during the Clinton Admin....he sent lots of jobs to China.

I didn't trust him then and I don't trust him now.

[unlawflcombatnt]

40. Free Trader

That's one major shortcoming of Reich's. He's an admitted free traitor.

But to read his most recent writings, however, you have to wonder if he's had a change of heart.

[femrap]

44. I think he does what

ever gives himself a buck. So I question his change of heart. But I'm a cynic.

[niceypoo]

3. Obama now owns the Bush tax cuts

Why do I get a bad feeling about this?

[JoePhilly]

46. The House and Senate also own it .... right????

[unkachuck]

53. the Obama/Bush Tax-Cut....

....a little for middle, a lot for the top!

....that has a nice primary ring to it....

[budkin]

4. Sickening.

[Change has come]

6. And with the stroke of the Presidential pen,

This will now be known as the Obama tax cuts. :dem:

[Gold Metal Flake]

7. Two parties for the rich, none for the workers.

This was all a charade. This is what "two sides of the same coin" means.

[LooseWilly]

12. Coke v. Pepsi

There's a difference... really there is...

[unlawflcombatnt]

14. Corporatists

Both parties ARE 2 sides of the same coin. And that coin is the Fascist/Corporatist party.

The Dems are actually overjoyed that they just "had" to vote yes on this sell-out. Now they can go out and continue collecting campaign money from their rich donors like Goldman Sachs, BofA, Citigroup, etc.

Now they can say that they really are "pro-business."

But what about workers?

Aaahh. Who cares? Certainly not the Democrats.

[femrap]

31. +1....nt

[City Lights]

18. !

:thumbsup:

[RegieRocker]

56. Bought and paid for by contributions to get elected

what else did you expect. They want to get elected again and will need those corporate hand outs.

[RegieRocker]

57. Marcy Kaptur for President!!!!

[unlawflcombatnt]

58. Yes

N/T

[ThePhilosopher04]

8. I'm now officially off the Obama train...

not sure who I'll donate to now, but it sure as hell won't be him...it's a sad day.

[JoePhilly]

47. Don't donate to any Dem ... the HOUSE and SENATE passed it.

Cut them all off.

[chill_wind]

9. You knew they would. All the Dem "f*ck no" sound and fury was pure political theater

meant solely for our public consumption.

[Raine]

13. All for show

just to try and dupe the public, well some of us are wise to that.

[hfojvt]

23. or maybe the people making sound were the 112 who voted no

and by sounding off they were hoping to rally people to their side and create more NO votes?

[western mass]

10. Dems did NOT cave. They got exactly what they wanted.

See, the thing to understand about the good cop / bad cop routine, is that both cops want exactly the same thing.

[unlawflcombatnt]

11. Good Point

And that's certainly what the voting indicated from the Dems--themselves voting 139-112 in favor.

And it's certainly what Obama wanted all along, to appease his rich campaign contributors, like
Goldman Sachs--$994,795
Microsoft Corp--$833,617
Google, Inc--$803,436
Citigroup, Inc--$701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co--$695,132
Time Warner--$590,084
UBS AG--$543,219
IBM Corp--$528,822
Morgan Stanley--$514,881
General Electric--$499,130

[Gold Metal Flake]

15. AM pissed-off kick.

[MineralMan]

16. Under The Bus for Nancy Pelosi, Too!

Who's left for the "base" to support?

[piratefish08]

17. fuck them. fuck all of them.

my vote in 2012 will go to the most progressive candidate. period.

even if it becomes a 'wasted' vote, I will not have to regret it the way I do my work and vote for Obama.

DC is vile and disgusting.

[lonestarnot]

19. Have we changed our name yet?

[SkyDaddy7]

20. Finally a thread placing blame on nancy Pelosi! nt.

Will it make it to the Greatest Threads? Yeah right!

[Gold Metal Flake]

21. It did.

As if that page has any meaning.

[hfojvt]

22. at least one mark in favor of Democrats

they voted for it 139 - 112 (55%) but Republicans voted for it 138 - 36 (80%). At least 45% of my party voted against it, compared to 20% of the other party.

Kinda disgusting to see Blue Dogs like Stephanie Sandlin and Dennis Moore voting for it. They were both defeated in the last election, so they didn't have to cave in order to get re-elected.

Or maybe that is the time you really have to cave since you are looking for somebody rich and/or powerful to give you another good-paying job.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. They've whittled the "dimes worth of difference" down to a wooden nickel.

[Kweli4Real]

25. Okay, Now that we heard from the "True Real Leftist Democratic Base" ...

How about a word from those of us who are equally "true" to the Left and Democrat Party (though we don't feel compelled to insist, convince, or otherwise crow about it); but have taken at least one course in Civics, i.e., How Government Operates.

You know ... those of us that recognize that governing (in a democracy/democratic republic) requires compromise. And in this case, recognize that trading extensions of the cuts for the wealthy for all the other things in the "deal", including extensions of U/C and extending the cuts for the middleclass, was the best deal in town.

How about a word from those of us that are pretty certain that if the "deal" had been killed, on the first payday after January 1, 2011, DU would have been full of threads complaining about how PRESIDENT Obama had violated his campaign promise to not raise taxes on the middleclass. And, Those of us equally certain that the "deal" had been killed, the public would have joined in ... blaming both PRESIDENT Obama and the Democrats, while continuing hold the republicans blameless (those of paying attention have been seeing this for the last 24 months).

What about a word from those of us that understand "would'a", "could'a" and "should'a" all mean "didn't", so we refuse to entertain the fallacious argument that U/C extensions shouldn't have been linked to the extension of the tax cuts for the wealthy. It was and that's what the legislature had to vote on.

How about from those of us who refuse to demand that we stand on OUR principles, even at the risk of YOUR (but not our) suffering. Those of us that can empathize with those facing financial ruin TODAY and give less than a damn about TOMORROW'S deficit effects ... and even less that, that millioniares continue getting millions.

And finally, can we hear from those that actually get a (sick kinda) kick from reading thread after thread from the "True Real Leftist Democratic Base" exclaiming that "we are done, outta here, no longer democrats" ... for days on end (though I suspect the weeks will stretch out into weeks and months and maybe even the next two years).

[Egnever]

32. Love it!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[femrap]

33. folks making less than

$20K/year will see a tax INCREASE. 99% of the politicians/corporate c*cksuckers are corrupt.

We must rely on ourselves.

[Kweli4Real]

34. Not true ...

And already debunked. Those making $20K or less will be better situated than they would be if the tax cuts had expired (by about $400) ...

But don't let the facts get.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[unlawflcombatnt]

42. You're Wrong

Those making less than $20K per year will not be getting the $400 they were getting previously from the Make-work-pay credit. Instead, they will now get only the 2% reduction in payroll taxes, which is less than $400 for anyone making less than $20K.

[Kweli4Real]

51. Are you suggesting ...

That those making $20K/yr or less would be better off without the deal? If so, please save it ... or better, educate yourself and stop listening to republicans B.S. and histronics from the Left.

Those making under $20K/yr would see the tax brackets changing and the tax rate returning to Clinton era rates? They would end up paying more in taxes. That's reality ... the whole reality, not the parsed reality you are choosing to present. Look it up!

[dionysus]

41. bravo!

:woohoo:

[unlawflcombatnt]

26. Link to House Vote on HR 4853 (Roll Call vote 467)

HR 4853

Roll Call Vote 647

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll647.xml

[unlawflcombatnt]

38. Pelosi Did NOT Vote

Nancy Pelosi's name is not on the roll call vote list.

After a call to her office by my wife, we were informed Pelosi did not cast a vote, despite her name not being listed under the "NV" category.

[kath]

27. They lie. And they cave. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and..


The party is dead to me.

Disgusted beyond belief, beyond words, beyond hope...

[TBF]

28. Typical. And it's not "caving" when you willingly do something. nt

[femrap]

29. K and R

They're all f*cking liars. The System is corrupt. DC is a cesspool.

We're toast....burnt toast.

I doubt we'll recognize this country come next Xmas.

Time to :hide:

[sendero]

35. Did anyone actually think..

... anything different would happen? How many times do you guys have to see this theatrical farce before you get it?

The Dems are not going to do shit. Not now, not next week, not next month and not next year.

They will put on a bit of a show for the STUPID but that is ALL.

You are on your own.

[Kat45]

36. I was happy to see that my Rep did not cave.

Ed Markey voted no.

[slay]

39. I've fucking had it with the Dems - they are corrupt, bought and paid for

just like the Republicans.

Gore Vidal was right!!

***Gore Vidal: "We only have one political party in the U.S., and that is the property party, which essentially is corporate America, which has two right wings, one called Republican and one called Democrat. I can't say I like either of them.

:mad: :grr: :mad: :grr: :mad: :grr:

[dreamnightwind]

48. Pelosi bashing?

I'm no centrist apologist, far from it. But I think seems to be a little off base. Pelosi isn't perfect but she's one of the better ones IMHO. Sure I could be wrong, I don't think so.

My rep Woolsey voted NO, as did 112 other Dems who opposed the deal their president struck. I don't think 139 - 112 is such an overwhelming cave. And look at what they were up against. The bill was going to pass, it was easy enough for them to figure it out. The more principled Dems still voted no. Some Dems no doubt actually supported it and voted yes. Other Dems no doubt saw this thing passing regardless and chose corporate donor cover rather than grassoots donor cover.

I don't know the inside scoop on why Pelosi brought this to the floor, and it is disappointing. I suspect that if I knew, I'd understand better, I really don't think Nancy's on the side of the supply-siders.

[unlawflcombatnt]

49. I don't know the inside story either

But the problem is, if you make a promise, you're supposed to keep it. And she successfully pacified a lot of opponents of the deal by claiming she would not bring it to the floor unchanged. But she did any way.

I'd call that caving in, regardless of what her reasons were.

[dreamnightwind]

54. Hmmm...

"And she successfully pacified a lot of opponents of the deal by claiming she would not bring it to the floor unchanged."

Well, if you don't know the inside story, your statement above is based on nothing. It claims her intent to enact this legislation by deceitful means, when the truth could, and IMHO probably is, much different. And I really don't think she pacified anyone in this case.

Bash the conservadems and their enablers all you want, I do it all the time and won't stop until they're out of power or I'm dead. No need to eat our own, though, we have very few allies in any position of power. I'm aware of the anger against Pelosi, much of it based on taking impeachment of W off the table. That's another assumption, a lot goes on we don't know about and though she is speaker her power is limited. I'd like to know what really went on regarding the impeachment issue.

You could be right about her, I just think this is a leap too far based on the little known about this process, and I think she's mostly on our side of things.

[knixphan]

50. Primaries Matter.

[dreamnightwind]

55. You got that right!

The primaries, and the process of finding and positioning movements and candidates before the primaries, is really where it's at, so we don't have to keep dealing with the lesser of two evils.

[Arkana]

52. Tax cuts for the middle class, massive UI extension for people who REALLY need it,

...yeah, he really sold us out all right.

Jesus Christ. We had to swallow a two-year extension of the hated tax cuts in order to get people who NEED help the help they need. I'm not going to lose any sleep.

[cascadiance]

59. I lost my job this week and am back on unemployment, and STILL think this vote SUCKS!

They should have not put any bill in place at all. I might have to do without a bit more now, but two years from now, with more revenue coming in, we'll still be in a better spot with less cuts to things we really need which are sure to be coming soon!