Chief: Man shot by officers pointed a water nozzle

[somone]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/13/AR2010121303728.html

Chief: Man shot by officers pointed a water nozzle
By JOHN MONE

LONG BEACH, Calif. -- A man shot to death by two police officers was found to have pointed a pistol-grip water nozzle at them rather than a weapon, the police chief said Monday at a news conference marked by sobs from the victim's relatives. The Long Beach officers were summoned by a 911 report of a man with a gun and fired at him when he pointed the black metal-tipped object at them in a two-handed posture that looked like what a person would do when they are about to shoot a weapon, Chief Jim McDonnell said. Douglas Zerby, 35, was pronounced dead Sunday afternoon at the scene...

The officers were dispatched to an apartment building at 4:40 p.m. after two people reported a man with a gun sitting on a backyard porch landing, he said. In an excerpt of a 911 call played for reporters, a male caller said the man appeared to have a "tiny six-shooter". McDonnell said the officers took positions to observe Zerby, who appeared intoxicated, and believed he had a gun as described by the callers, but focused on setting up containment of the area rather than contacting him. The officers requested other officers, a helicopter, a K-9 team and a mental evaluation team, the chief said.

As those units were responding, the man pointed the object at apartments and played with it, causing it to make sounds similar to those of a gun being handled, he said. "As the subject was in a seated position, he used a two-handed pistol-grip hold on an object with his arms fully extended," McDonnell said. "Somebody that is impaired and waving what appears to witnesses and police to be a handgun. That's what the officers were faced with." Zerby pointed it at one of the officers and two officers fired their weapons, a handgun and a shotgun.

The dead man's sister denounced the shooting and said legal action was being considered. "He never knew there was a problem. Police snuck down the corridor and shot him. He was killed in cold blood. He was a drunk sitting on a stoop fumbling with a hose nozzle," Eden Marie Biele said in an interview with The Associated Press. She said the police never made verbal or visual contact with Zerby. "They didn't say 'Put your hands up" or "Freeze" or anything," Biele said...

[Pavulon]

1. Note to self dont point something that looks like a gun using

an isometric grip / stance. I think that was covered in grade school.

[Skittles]

2. SOUND ADVICE

[NuclearDem]

4. It's not like they went in fucking guns-a-blazing on him

They were monitoring him for HOW long before they went after him, and they STILL couldn't tell the difference between a real gun and fucking water nozzle?

Sounds like a bunch of incompetent cops who killed a drunk guy rather then the guy asking for it. Nice work blaming the victim though.

[Pavulon]

16. Again rather than post adhom stuff, stay on topic.

the victim is the officer who he used to commit suicide.

[NuclearDem]

21. As soon as you start reading the articles.

The man was drunk and holding a fucking water nozzle that the officers spent a while monitoring.

It's the cops' fault for shooting a drunk guy with a water nozzle. It wasn't suicide by cop.

[Pavulon]

23. Well that opinion is yours.

mine is any person stupid enough to point a water nozzle like you point a handgun (isometric grip) is either trying to kill themselves or to fucking dumb to live, drunk or not.

[NuclearDem]

24. Cops are supposed to have better judgment than that

Don't excuse stupid cop behavior with "drrrr that guy was stoopid"

[Pavulon]

29. Well here ya go. Now if the person chooses wrong because of a stupid ass, you die.

you have a flashlight and or a split second to make a call..

[NuclearDem]

31. Well, considering this happened in broad fucking daylight and they watched him for quite a while

Your post is completely irrelevant.

Why do you defend the people who don't need defending?

[Pavulon]

33. Because reality needs a friend..

read the article. He died for being a drunk moron. Thankfully he was not driving his car into innocent people..

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-long-beach-belmont-shore-shooting,0,2471345.story

Police were called at 4:40 p.m. Sunday to investigate the report of a man with a gun in the 5300 block of Ocean Boulevard near Glendora Avenue, said Long Beach Sgt. Dina Zapalski.

Officers say they fired at Douglas Zerby when he pointed the black metal-tipped object at them in a two-handed posture that looked like what a person would do when they are about to shoot a weapon, Chief Jim McDonnell said.

[NuclearDem]

35. Sorry, didn't know "being a drunk moron" was a capital crime

:eyes:

Again, you blame the victim for the cops being idiots. Classy.

[Pavulon]

41. The victim is the person who shot him.

waterboy should have just jumped off the bridge and spared someone else having to kill him.

Really, this is simple. You dont water your grass using a isometric grip. Sorry. Played a stupid game, lost.

[NuclearDem]

42. Oh, right, the trained police officer with a gun is the victim

And not the drunk guy with the water nozzle.

You're right.

[Pavulon]

44. I appreciate that. You will find the court system (crim and civil) and the administrative

offices that handle this incident will agree. Natural selection at work.

[Nailzberg]

60. Police were called at 4:40, sunset was 4:45. It was becoming dusk.

I was working on my car today at 5:15 today and needed a flashlight.

[blueamy66]

36. WTF?

You can't tell the difference between a water sprayer and a gun? And a professional "cop" can't?

I call bullshit.

Cops just don't care anymore. They just don't.

And the last I checked, being a "drunk moron" wasn't a crime punishable by death.

[Pavulon]

38. Why WOULD YOU POINT EITHER AT the police. Didn't someone inform

the person this is a great way to get shot. I seem to remember this being mentioned in school and somewhere before I could form the idea on my own. Dont point things that look like guns at the police.

Darwin Award.

[NuclearDem]

40. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record

It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.
It doesn't excuse what the cops did.

Oh, and just for the record,

It doesn't excuse what the cops did.

[Pavulon]

43. Actually that will be the law of the land. They are generally written

to allow a "reasonable man" response in lethal force shootings. Point a gun, cellphone, or water nozzle at armed officers, its reasonable to expect to get shot.

End story, watch the outcome. no bill, family sues, they loose, officer keeps his job, dumbass stays dead.

[NuclearDem]

46. Why do I get the feeling that if some girl was raped

While she was walking drunk down a poorly-lit street and wearing some revealing clothes you would blame her for being raped because she was "stupid"?

[Pavulon]

47. You have it backwards. The person who drinks and then rapes someone

has no excuse. Being drunk and doing something dumb is not an excuse for underlying stupidity..

You should be careful with your tone, you are treading close to a place you dont want to go.

[blueamy66]

65. Really?

A water sprayer looks like a gun?

I just looked at one of ours...it's yellow and black.

Again, WTF?

[Pavulon]

71. Link to darwin award triggering device...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/12/man-killed-by-long-beach-police-was-holding-a-water-nozzle.html

[Canuckistanian]

52. A "split second"?

Where does it say that in the article?

Since the 'perp' wasn't even AWARE he was being challenged or even that there was a clear victim, why the resort to blowing him away?

Give your head a shake, man.

[Pavulon]

54. I'm sure someone told you when you were a kid not to point toy guns at the police(pic included)

as an adult there is no way you are doing this here , in canada, in germany, or to the armed police units in the UK and not getting shot.

Where does it say he was not aware. You point this at an officer with a two handed grip expect to get shot. Common sense.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/12/man-killed-by-long-beach-police-was-holding-a-water-nozzle.html

[Canuckistanian]

56. Sure, if they're standing right in front of me, telling me to drop it

But that didn't happen here, did it?

It's the DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY of a police officer to warn a suspect before emptying the magazine on them.

I learned THAT when I was a kid, too.

[Pavulon]

57. No it is not the duty of an officer to allow you to shoot first.

if the situation is lethal, or appears to be, they can and will fire with no warning shots, no verbal warning.

It is so simple. There is NO REASON to point something like this at the police. And in no source does it say he was ambushed.

none.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e0a9489b970b-250wi

The officers had a position of cover and were observing the suspect while other officers were en route," said Sgt. Dina Zapalski, a spokeswoman for the Long Beach Police Department.

Zapalski said Douglas Zerby was in a seated position when he extended his arms while holding the gun-like object and pointed it at an officer.

That last sentence is what got him a chest full of buckshot.

[Canuckistanian]

58. Whatever, dude

I just hope you never get blown away by cops without warning.

[Pavulon]

59. I dont run around pointing a hoze nozzle at police. so I'm all set.

I have interacted with the police while carrying real firearms and lived to tell about it. Its all very simple.

[Canuckistanian]

61. No, seriously

Take care of yourself. You probably have a family that cares for you.

Peace.

[Pavulon]

62. Yes I do

and thanks!

[blueamy66]

66. There are about 100 other models of water sprayers out there

Do you have time to post all of the pics????

The cops fucked up. Admit it.

[Pavulon]

70. The one he used looked like that black one. Glockish, check the la times (nt)

[blueamy66]

75. I read my local paper, the AZ Republic

The last line of the article stated: "As those units were responding, the man pointed the object at apartments and played with it, causing IT TO MAKE SOUNDS SIMILAR TO THOSE OF A GUN BEING HANDLED, he said.

Are you kidding me? How does one "make sounds similar to those of a gun being handled?"

I call BS.

[redirish28]

74. If the cops mistook THAT nossle for a gun than they need glasses and be charge with homicide!

[TexasObserver]

28. Or, we could require better police officers who are better trained ...

... and who aren't so quick to resolve every problem with a gun, billy club or taser.

Until we're prepared to demand more of police officers, these kind of tragedies will continue to mount.

[MadHound]

3. Umm, nobody on the police force had a pair of binoculars?

I can understand witnesses mistaking a pistol grip nozzle for a "tiny six shooter", but it is the cop's business, their duty to know the difference between a gun and, well, not a gun.

[theoldman]

5. When you only have a split second to think you shoot first and think later.

What actually happens in a situation like this is that you look at the person more than what they are holding in their hand. The man looked like he was going to shoot and this is what the police reacted to.

[NuclearDem]

7. Is everyone just missing this part of the article or something?

"McDonnell said the officers took positions to observe Zerby, who appeared intoxicated, and believed he had a gun as described by the callers, but focused on setting up containment of the area rather than contacting him."

Meaning: they sat down and watched him before they went in after him. It wasn't a split second thing; they had plenty of time to pick out the difference between a real gun and a water nozzle.

[Pavulon]

50. But they did not. They did not say, "he had a harmless nozzle"

and we shot him dead because we like to do paperwork and deal with the press. When in doubt look for the simple cause. Stupidity, pointing something that looks like a gun, in the same way you point a real gun, at armed men is well, stupid.

Darwin stamp for him.

[MadHound]

12. Umm, they had time to watch and observe the man before they went storming in and shot him

I can understand, barely sometimes, the split second decision, but when you've got time to set up and fucking observe? Nah, that's murder, inadvertantly or otherwise. Somebody in the real world would go to jail for this, even if for just negligence. Sadly the officer will simply get a slap on the wrist.

Hope the family takes the cops and the city to the cleaners for this one.

[blueamy66]

67. A split second?

Did you read the article?

[MrScorpio]

6. Apparently, our late friend was not aware of the cops' list of priorities

I wrote this before:

OK, here we go... The order of priorities that cops are protecting goes like this:

1. Themselves.

2. Their fellow cops

3. The laws of the jurisdiction that pays their paychecks

4. Ordinary, law abiding citizens and the victims of crimes

5. The criminal element.

6. The Truth: To protect cops, applying the laws of the jurisdiction to separate and arrest the criminal element from ordinary "law abiding citizens" and their victims and put the motherfuckers in jail.

Snip-

If by your deeds, you show disdain for the order of priorities, you should expect to be quickly shuffled to the bottom of the deck. Most likely, with your face is on the pavement and in handcuffs, which is much more preferable than being dead.

It's pretty sad the see the list actually in action.

[blueamy66]

68. I think that 2, 3 and 4

should also be THEMSELVES.

Just MHO.

[asdjrocky]

8. All they need is an excuse.

If you give the police any kind of excuse to use force, even the slightest, most flimsy excuse, be assured, they will use it to full advantage.

99% of cops give the rest a bad name.

[Zoigal]

9. Oh good grief...can't a trained policeman tell the difference between

a water hose nozzle and a real gun? And why didn't they just tase the guy instead of killing him?
Sigh...z

[Pavulon]

17. Cant they just train people not to point things that look like guns at the police(nt)

[Sonoman]

20. Two things

1. Probably to much distance for a taze.

2. No one wants their last thought to be along the lines of, "Gee, I thought it was a hose nozzle".

Sonoman

[Nailzberg]

63. Here's the nozzle in question.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e0a9489b970b-250wi

It's not lying on a table in front of you, it's in someone's hands, at a bit of a distance, and it's being raised up at you as you try to figure out what it is.

Police probably didn't deploy tasers due to distance (Tasers are only good for use under 10 yds)
and
the nature of the report being a man with a gun. Tasers are great for the crazy man with a knife threatening people, and other melee weapons. Would you bring a taser to a gun fight?

[theoldman]

10. As usual everyone has an opinion.

If the police approached me I would drop whatever I had in my hands and raise my arms up. I would also use the word SIR in any conversation with them. That is how you stay out of trouble and also stay alive.

[NuclearDem]

11. The guy was also drunk too

Typically, reasonable judgment and clear thinking are obstructed when you're drunk.

[Pavulon]

19. People use that excuse alot. Drunk driving, date rape, pointing something that looks like a gun

is stupid and some of those are illegal. Being drunk just helps the stupid be stupider..

[NuclearDem]

22. Because people get drunk and do stupid shit

I doubt the guy was thinking "golly, I'll get drunk and point a water nozzle at cops, but I know I'll get away with it because I'm drunk"

Dude, have those straws broken yet?

[Pavulon]

25. Considering how many times i have gotten drunk

in school, in the army, in college, at weddings, shit last weekend and I never had the urge to point a water nozzle using the same grip one uses to fire a gun (or drive drunk, or try out some date rape).

I mean dont you hold your nozzle like this?

[NuclearDem]

26. And congratulations, that's you

That person obviously deserved a death sentence since he wasn't you.

Not all people handle alcohol the same way, not all people have the same thought processes.

[Pavulon]

30. He was old enough to know better. google his name, he is not 12.

play stupid games, bad things happen. Reality once again is something we must all deal with.

[NuclearDem]

32. Doesn't excuse what the cops did

Demean the guy all you want, the fact is the cops had more than enough time to judge that he was holding a water nozzle, not a gun, and that shooting him was completely unnecessary.

Or maybe I should just grow up and grasp the reality of cops using excessive force. After all, we're not 12! If the cops kill one of us, it's because we did something stupid!

[Pavulon]

37. Not a KID, an adult at the scene with a man with a gun call.

I mean there is a reasonable expectation not to point an object at officers. Hey do you water you grass using a weak hand strong hand grip? Just curious..

If a person walks up to an officer and says I have a gun then "presents" something that looks like a gun, getting shot is a reality.

Stupidity is sad, I wonder if he had kids or gets a darwin.

[NuclearDem]

39. This is getting really stupid

Obviously you missed the entire part where they watched him in broad daylight for quite a while and had the time to make the call on whether he was holding a water nozzle or a gun, but I guess that's just inconvenient to your "cops can do no wrong, he deserved it" argument.

[Pavulon]

45. They can do plenty wrong. No media outlet has stated it was identified beforehand, link one

if you have one. If not, common sense default. dead guy pointed a thing that looks like a gun at guys with real guns. Darwin.

[MadHound]

15. Except the police had the opportunity to set up and observe this man beforehand,

This was no split second decision.

"McDonnell said the officers took positions to observe Zerby, who appeared intoxicated, and believed he had a gun as described by the callers, but focused on setting up containment of the area rather than contacting him. "

You don't make the decision to kill a man on a belief, not when you have the chance to observe him beforehand. You make certain before you pull out your gun. Any good cop will tell you that, I've known a few.

[X_Digger]

69. And if the guy never handled it in such a way as to tell it was a nozzle, not a gun?

A small, black gun in someone's large hands, from a short distance away, would be indistinguishable from this nozzle-

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e0a9489b970b-250wi

Especially so, if the police could only see the grip or the end and someone had reported a man with a gun.

The 'split second' is not while they were watching him, but when he pointed it at officers.

[me b zola]

13. Well thank God the officer didn't get wet!

</sarc>

[Pavulon]

18. just got used by a guy to commit suicide,(nt)

[me b zola]

48. What? A water hose?

Don't come to lecture me, I have been beaten in the streets by police for absolutely no reason.

[Pavulon]

49. I've had drunk asshole neighbors.. So were even.

and I have never had that experience. Pointing a water nozzle like this one at the police is really dumb and a brilliant way to get shot.

[me b zola]

51. Hey, thanks for the assumption that I was a drunk asshole

But no, I was not. I was a citizen who was assaulted by the police department. To this day I have nerve damage in my wrists and knees.

[Pavulon]

53. Not you, they guy who killed himself with a hose nozzle.

normal people dont water the lawn with a two handed grip. Your experience is bad, I have not had that experience. I have lived next to drunk tweaker morons who would do something like this to earn a darwin award.

[Union Scribe]

73. That was my first thought.

Someone committing suicide by cop has to spur them to deadly action somehow, and pointing anything resembling a weapon is exactly that.

[Vickers]

14. Do we need any more senseless acts like these before we finally come to our senses

and ban water nozzles???

[Codeine]

27. Dude got hosed. nt

[LostInAnomie]

34. I don't have much pity for people that pull shit like that.

If you pull something that looks like a gun on a cop you deserve what you get. Cops shouldn't have to wait around for a bullet to leave the barrel before they defend themselves.

[Pavulon]

55. Picture of what he pointed using a two handed grip.

I own one of these I dont use two hands to use it. I also own a pistol, it is black and looks similar to this. Point this at any police officer, expect to get shot.

Common sense.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0147e0a9489b970b-250wi

[MadHound]

64. Does your pistol have a long brass barrel?

Seriously now, that's just making the case against the cops worse. Especially since they had, and took the time to observe the man.

[Pavulon]

72. Silverish, Competition BBLS from LoneWolf and others

come in multiple colors. None should be pointed at police, why would you use a 2 handed isometric grip to point that at the police? They did not observe that he did not have a gun did they?

The guy killed himself by proxy.