The reason the death of DADT shakes straight, rightwing men to their very core

[ruggerson]

is because it destroys the myth that they have long perpetuated about gay men: that they are all lisping, immoral, weak and cowardly. This myth and other convenient stereotypes have long served as their bulwark against attacks on their heterosexist, patriarchal grip on power in this country.

Psychologically, the destruction of this myth has long term, profound consequences for the hierarchy of dominance in this nation of ours - all of them healthy and all of them good for both women in general and gay men specifically.

Today is far more powerful than if 15% of the NFL all came out of the closet at once. Or if all the gay movie stars suddenly had the urge to be publicly honest about who they are.

It's far more powerful because that aging, rightwing marine sitting on his couch in southern Indiana never was a football player or a movie star.

But he was a marine once and that identification has been the single, most powerful tool to enable him to self justify his rank prejudices and aggressive opposition to positive, generational growth and change.

The destruction of Don't Ask Don't Tell takes the mask off. And what is left is the emperor with no clothes, clutching his Bud light and his remote control, suddenly very, very angry, very insecure and very unsure about his position of dominance in a new America.

[Skittles]

1. K&R

[drlindaphd]

43. Yes! Yes! Yes!

I have a PhD in psychology and everyone of you has gotten the psychology of the super jock perfectly!

I applaud all of you for a job well done! :applause: :woohoo: :fistbump:

[Skittles]

2. K&R

[FirstLight]

3. very well said!

I hope this kind of legislation will be the beginning of a wave of consciousness, though i fear it will get nasty for a while yet.

...the mysogynistic and homophobic who think they wield some kind of power because they are 'real men' need to be taken down some notches and shown what equality really means...

[truedelphi]

79. I am pretty sure that every RW Fundie Preacher in the USA

Is already being sent a set of Talking Points, to help keep their congregations geared up for a long fight against this decent, just and common sense legislation..

[rhett o rick]

4. Right wing men are very insecure with their masculinity that they fear that

a gay might look at them and turn them gay.

[Rincewind]

Right wing men

are insecure about everything. They are complete phonies,and know that they aren't anything like they pretend to be. The only way that they can convince themselves that they are brave, and strong, and manly, is to pick on, abuse, and rant against anyone that they perceive as weak and powerless. That's why they worship the rich and powerful, because they know that they are pitiful little creatures, unfit for polite society.

[rhett o rick]

11. They are bullies. nm

[jaysunb]

14. You win the prize !

:)

[calimary]

21. And I would venture to say some of them are extremely shaky about their manhood.

Perhaps deeply deeply closeted. I have my suspicions about several members of the Senate. mcsame of course is in a class by himself. He sought the ultimate validation as Ultimate Alpha Male - SO extremely Alpha that he'd best his father and grandfather who both were distinguished admirals and show them who was the REAL man, the REAL Alpha Male, in the family. I think he had the same complex about measuring up to male family elders that dubya does, and that each of them finds himself wanting when the inevitable comparisons are made. (And certainly the comparisons I'd bet both mcsame and dubya reflexively make repeatedly within their own minds after a lifetime of that kind of thing.) And this scrawny little Chicago upstart, Barack Obama, who never joined the military, had the absolute gall to rob the "great" john mcsame of his birthright and deprive him of the ultimate bragging rights in his own illustrious Alpha Male-dominated family.

I think mcsame never had any respect for dubya and figured if dubya got into the White House, then HE by all rights deserved to be there TOO! And of course he coveted that job. What better way to stake his claim for all the world to see - not just his admiral father and admiral grandfather. Because there simply is NO higher-Alpha Alpha Male position on the planet than President of the United States. That's THE ULTIMATE Alpha Male job on Earth. It doesn't get any better or any higher or any bigger or any more Alpha than that. Such a validation would have forever wiped out any doubts in anyone's mind about mcsame's manhood. And NOT to achieve that validation that he undoubtedly still feels is his entitlement, is probably the biggest slap in the face he ever got.

No wonder he's so bitter, and so hell-bent at this point to knee-jerkedly vote against anything Barack Obama is for, and vote for anything that Barack Obama is against. Just BECAUSE.

He's just yet another Sore Loserman.

Sore Loserman 2.0, if you will.

[MadMaddie]

37. I have come to the conclusion that McCain has always had

"Daddy" issues.

In the Navy he could not ever be as powerful and impacting as his father. I suspect his father let him know it too.

I believe McCain is a racist and he can't let go of the fact that he got beat by a black man, he will go to his grave bitter and angry about that one fact. One other thing McCain knows deep in his gut that he would never have accomplished anything as President it is killing him that President Obama continues to get things done despite the opposition he faces....

[rury]

68. Yep, yep

you are spot on, MadMaddie!!:thumbsup:

[The Wizard]

81. Johnny Mac

wanted to be an admiral like his father and grandfather. He was told he was unqualified and became a senator. The Navy upper echelon thought he did not possess the mental stability necessary for the admiralty.

[Enthusiast]

46. Yup nt

[B Calm]

24. Spot on!

[formercia]

39. Big men with little dicks n/t

[justiceischeap]

27. I'm sorry to point this out but insecurity about gay males doesn't divide between political lines.

There are some Dems that are just as insecure.

I have to wonder if the repeal of DADT only pertained to lesbians, if there would have been as much fuss from the old, white men and women.

[ruggerson]

36. good points

n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

105. I have yet to hear any anti DADT argument that included lesbian issues.

All I hear is "showers" and "sleeping quarters", from men, about men.

Which, I guess, may be a blessing for our gay sisters who don't need the hassle.

the only time a woman is accused of being gay is if she refuses to sleep with some guy.

[swilton]

69. I think that you should include 'WHITE' right wing men -

I think race is in the mix as well....And the repeal of DADT shakes the insecurity of white men as much as the election of a black president.

[progressoid]

5. Right.

The idea that there are, and have been, thousands of Gay and Lesbian soldiers serving honorably for our country has to be devastating. But it's doubtful many would ever admit it.

[TheKentuckian]

6. Insightful truth telling.

I'll add that there must be some massive insecurity regarding their own sexuality to be sooooo fucking obsessed with something that doesn't at all involve them.

To my mind, the more kats are gay the less competition there is. It would seem that their problems would be more with lesbians but 9/10 think that is hawt and bash the gay dudes.

[Volaris]

19. if it matters, I have some thoughts...

As always, counter-thoughts are welcome...
I'm going to let my Higher Brain reflect, for a bit, on the functioning of my Lizard Brain (you know, the one that all Men have that only has 2 purposes..to Fuck and Kill.)
Men LOVE their penises. They are a source of great Joy, but since they are mostly external in nature, we don't do a whole hell of a lot of internal reflecting on the ramifications of having one. But we DO understand that they possess a certain sexual power,if you will...
Men wrongly believe that having a penis means having the power to seduce pretty much anyone we want, and if we CAN'T, its because we just haven't had enough time to work on the problem. (Things like the nature of Feminine Human Sexuality --in both Men and Women-- are rarely are factored into this little equation lol.) In short, our Penis is wonderful, and because of that (at least in the Lizard Brain) "no" doesn't mean "no", it means "try harder", and this will be important in the next little bit, so keep that part in mind....
I (as a Man) know how wonderful my penis is, and how hard it is for the subject of my affections to say to no to it (this is my IMPRESSION, mind you, not reality =)), and so I can surmise that someone ELSE'S penis must be equally wonderful to my own (unless, of course, is is larger than mine, then it is MORE wonderful--see how that works?) Heres where it gets interesting....What if the power of the Almighty Penis were to be used against ME, to seduce ME, (if that were another Man's desire) what recourse would I possibly have to resist, given that I understand how wonderful the Almighty Penis is???
I figured it out one day. That was the day that I came to understand the true nature of my own sexuality=).
WOMEN figured out a LOOOOONG time ago that the Penis, while wonderful in it's own way, isn't the end-all, be-all of Masculine Energy that Men think it is. It is because of THIS reason, combined with a PROPER understanding of FEMININE Energy, that "no" really does mean "NO Motherfucker".
Immature straight men are terrified that if a gay man hits on them, they might fall prey to their own weapons of seduction, and be powerless to stop it from happening. This fear ENDS the moment that a Man comes to understand his own internal FEMININE energy, and the limits (and misconceptions of)his own Masculine Energies. When "NO" really does come to mean "NO", it matters not who is doing the asking, and who is being subjected to the question, if you will.
Not that matters of course, but if some of you are wondering at this point I am in fact, a Heterosexual, but I didn't come to these kinds of reflections until after I spent some time as a bartender at a local Gay Nightclub for extra bill-paying money. As SOON as I figured out that all of the above was happening in my little Lizard Brain, true reflective understanding led me to NOT CARE if I was being hit on, because the power to stop it from happening if I ever became uncomfortable with it came from my own internal feminine, the power of NO TO ACTUALLY MEAN NO, NOT TRY HARDER lol. after that, I made a ton of money because I was a COMPLETE SHAMELESS FLIRT, and was doing so because I knew that I could stop it whenever I wanted. This, by the way, is why women can go out to a bar and NOT SPEND A DAMN DIME all night long, and be well on their way to hammered by the time the place closes/they decide to leave=).
comment and arguments are welcome, as always, OR if you just want to tell me what a complete <moran> you think I am, you an do that too =)

[teenagebambam]

23. My best friends are straight men

who have figured this same thing out. Also takes the pressure off of me, a gay man of a certain age who has been socially conditioned to believe that I make straight men uncomfortable by my existence. Good on you.

[seabeyond]

30. yup. i love it.

when i say this i am told, why do you hate men. lol. the reality is, in your new concept arent you more empowered, more free, more awesome?

good post

[DeadEyeDyck]

82. I don't know who you are but I have been reading

Ken Wilber since I was in Jr. High and you sound just like him. I was so enamored by him that I went to one of his retreats. I am now a post doc in international comms.

You post was exceptionally illuminating.

[Volaris]

95. AHhahahahah don't worry, there are days

when it feels like <I> don't know who I am, either, but I DO know who I am not, and I AM fairly certain that I'm NOT Ken Wilbur lol.
And thank you for your kind words, if others find these kinds of things enlightening, I guess thats good, but theres a part of me that would much rather have developed a brain that allows me to manipulate the hell out of the stock market.....(probably the Lizard Brain part) =)

[William769]

7. And here I thought it was because

We would see their little wee wee's. :shrug:

[David Zephyr]

8. McCain and ilk projected their own homophobia on to our troops.

Our troops are better than he is. They insult our troops with their perverse "concerns". They have dirty minds.

K&R.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

9. Well said.

The demise of the (privileged, white) patriarchal dominance is long overdue.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. I don't think anyone is going to accuse the Israeli army of being weak.

And they don't discriminate.

[DinahMoeHum]

41. . . .Or the British armed forces. . .

RWers in this country are candy-assed pansies anyway if they're that upset about gays in the military.

[Kablooie]

12. Probably shakes the gay right wing men also. One step closer to being exposed.

They all seem to want to remain hidden and show support anti gay rights.

[OhioBlue]

15. well, except for the log cabin republicans

who were indeed our allies on this issue.

IMO - the gay, right-wing men that you speak of have much larger, personal issues that they need to deal with. I'm not sure that the repeal of DADT is as much of a negative factor as their more personal problems. I'm actually a little bit sad for them. What miserable lives they must lead to have to live a lie and be inundated with such overwhelming internal conflict. Perhaps the repeal combined with society's progress on attitudes toward LGBT members will actually have a positive and liberating effect for them and hopefully, some of them will be comfortable with who they are in regards to their sexuality.

[Kablooie]

16. Actually I think Republicans, gay and straight both, lead pretty miserable lives.

[Roselma]

13. Yup...sounds right

[2Design]

17. a number of them are in the closet and don't want it out in open

[rury]

70. But eventually their Rentboys kiss and tell!

[bliss_eternal]

18. kicked...

...and rec'd...

and btw, congratulations, ruggerson. i know the wait has been long, but so glad the time has finally come.
in solidarity. :hug:

[ruggerson]

31. back atcha

bliss :hug:

[LooseWilly]

20. Far more than the abstract knowledge for that aging marine...

Now that aging marine's kids can (well, once the JCOS and the SOD and then the CIC all sign off on finally ending this bullshit)... now the kids coming back from their tours can admit that some of their brothers in arms are LGBT, without having to fear that they'll be ending their brothers' (or sisters') careers.

The more those stories can circulate without fear of repression as a result... the more eyes (and minds) will open... and it will not be long before either open acceptance or some sort of counter-counter-cultural assault begins anew. But hell, the military are the ones with the big guns... even the militias will hesitate. All the rest will cower and pee themselves before they'll re-iterate these arguments.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. Yes, this. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

22. It's reflective of how widespread and mainstream support for repeal is, even the Senate agreed.

The US Senate is probably about 10 years behind where the people of this country actually are.

The people of the US are pro-choice. They want to end the drug war. They want government out of their bedrooms and bloodstreams. They don't want government telling consenting adults what they can do with their own bodies, or what they can read, watch, listen to, write or say.

Not yet, but soon, a majority will support full marriage equality for GLBT citizens, legalizing pot, etc.

It will happen.

[Mimosa]

96. ^ *ITA x 100, Warren* ^

Yours is an accurate assessment.

The public has usually been ahead of those fools in politics on each issue you mentioned. Even real health care reform, Medicare for all, which they denied us.

On the drug war, I suspect there's a crass financial reason it continues. Cops, lawyers, judges, counselors, prison industry and others all make money off of the 'war on drug users.'

[terrya]

25. K&R Thank you.

[babylonsister]

26. Rec'd! Long time coming, and finally here! And to hell

with those this will 'shake'. I hope it shakes everyone awake and makes them realize what a poor 'law' this was to begin with.

Congrats, ruggerson, a major victory, and hopefully many more to come! :hug:

[ruggerson]

32. I think

it's the beginning of the end, so to speak. I wasn't sure if we would see marriage equality as the law of the land in my lifetime. Now I think that's a distinct possibility.

:hug:

[myrna minx]

28. K&R n/t

[Richard Steele]

29. Very well put. K&R

[DavidDvorkin]

34. It doesnt shake the truly staight

It shakes those who want everyone to think that they are straight and tough and manly.

[DirkGently]

35. Well put.. A lot of "it" is about a threat to cultural dominance and myths that support it.

[felix_numinous]

38. The patriarchy got bitchslapped

and that is worth celebrating!

:toast: :bounce:

[puebloknot]

40. They aren't too comfortable with women, either! "Women in subjection ...

... to their man" is a macho, right-wing sacred cow.

Now that we've taken away the "gays in subjection" meme that runs through their fevered brains,they're just ... well, flummoxed.

I used to work in a physics department at a university in California. There, I learned of that old phrase "Science advances funeral by funeral." I think that's what it will take for us all to live in comfort with each other -- a lot of funerals!

But, then, there's that scene from "Aliens" where one of the foreign critters hitches a ride on the spacecraft. These bigoted seeds are planted deep and hard to kill off. But this new legislation is a start.

[DeSwiss]

42. K&R

While I'll agree with much of your point here, I also must state for the record that one of the principle roles that religion has played within societies at least since the conception of the empire, was to keep vox populi unsettled, disjointed and thus controllable. Racism, gender bias, sexual orientation bias, and class bias - all have largely been perpetuated and maintained by religious dogma, and has served to render the people as ineffective opposition against the rich. As Napoleon said: "Religion is a great thing to keep the poor from murdering the rich."

Which is why the church has played such a central role in opposing rapprochement in the past between the races and cautioned against "moving too fast" and "allowing nature to take its course." And was the reason MLK wrote the book "Why We Can't Wait." And the same applies to women's rights and how our laws still control women's bodies, and the same has been the case with the LGBT. As long as the people can be divided and kept at each others throats we can never come to realize how we're being played into our defeatist positions because we keep targeting the wrong enemy. The church could not exist unless it kowtowed to the state and indeed the Christian religious texts tell us to obey our leaders because they wouldn't be our leaders unless god wanted them to be. Great logic. And somehow we allow ourselves follow this stupidity and refuse to challenge it.

In exchange for selling us out, they retain positions of privilege, pay no taxes and get to control us. And our children. So yes, the defeat of DADT is of a tectonic nature upon the geology and strata of our modern-society -- but we shouldn't stop here. Why? Because we have lately seen the blatant disregard with which the rich have flaunted their ownership of the state and of our "elected politicians" -- and how they could care less what we think. We have seen that they will do what they will upon our so-called level legal playing field where everyone is supposed to be equal under the law, and yet not a single banker has even been indicted for the robbery we have all witnessed. They have turned the whole concept of liberty and freedom upon its head. And so far, we just stand there. Looking. Waiting for someone to act on our behalf. Well they won't.

And for those who are quick to say that President Obama deserves praise now for standing by his guns in demanding the repeal of DADT, especially when just everything else he's touched has turned into tapioca, let me remind you that there was no financial cost to Wall Street in his support of the repeal of DADT. I believe that had Wall Street opposed the repeal of DADT, this would never have occurred.

They're stealing people's homes. They've given our jobs to others in foreign lands and then ship the materials they now make that we used to, back here for us to buy on the cheap at WalMart. All the while they skirt and/or totally avoid environmental laws and paying people in those countries a decent wage. And can openly bribe the officials of other countries to avoid paying the price for their duplicity, avarice and greed. The rich have poisoned our lands and the water we drink, forcing us to buy water in plastic containers that further pollute the earth. They have filled the air and water with carbon-based sludge and they have suppressed the exposure and development of clean and efficient alternative energies because they would allow us greater independence from them, since the sources of these cleaner sources of energy are the air and the sun and the steam from the earth. All free.

Yes, the mask has slipped but only partially. The true ugliness of what we've become is mostly shielded from view. The MSM won't show us the truth, but will only caricature our lives into some bizarre spectacle for us to gawk it to keep us distracted. To keep us from thinking about the truth of life in these United States. The death and destruction that we now rain down upon others under the guise of promoting democracy and capitalism, will be and is our undoing. The rotten ideals and beliefs which created and maintained the hatred upon which DADT previously rested, is nothing by comparison to the stench that lies further down. I am happy that DADT is now history. I only wish that the bigotry that spawned it to begin with were gone as well. But we all know that it is not.

It is time to wake up -- fully.

[certainot]

63. sexual repression maintains our traditional power structures

and this is the best explanation i've seen:

Alien sex ed for humans

[stuntcat]

44. you are so right on.

the madder they are, the bigger problem they have with themselves

[demigoddess]

45. you said a mouthful. some guys go into the military to

establish their manhood, and don't like it that gay men can be just as macho and successful in uniform.

[alfredo]

47. We still have DADT in Country music.

[Erose999]

101. And the color barrier too, for the most part. I can count the number of people of color in Country

music on one hand, and probably still have a couple fingers left.

Charley Pride:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPD1yKPTzGM

and Hootie (minus the Blowfish), and Carl Ray. Not many more than that that I know of.

This is a good article:

http://www.carlray.com/twang.htm

[alfredo]

103. Aaron Neville. See the below video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-2-iRzC2ec&feature=related

[PurityOfEssence]

48. Never underestimate the jealousy of perceived sexual satisfaction, either...

Your points are dead-on, but I'd like to throw another of my pet beliefs into the pot: one of the big reasons why many people are outraged by open gays is the perception that they're actually getting what they want. In a world of people angry and frustrated by their inability to have the kind of sex they want (whether they can even express what that might be, or whether that could be reasonably sustainable due to the lack of reciprocation many have in their REAL desire to "be serviced") the idea of people actually having a good time is a personal affront.

Add into this the weird disgust so many people have and the fear of the unknown, and the idea of "different" sex must be a mind-blower. (Pun intended.)

As an illustration, I remember reading an article about AIDS when it was first being widely reported, literally the month the term was coined, which was right after I graduated from college in 1981. Remember the term GRID? The journalist was talking with a young guy who had been diagnosed with it and asked how many partners he'd had in the last few years, and the guy estimated 2500. The journalist, who seemed an otherwise somewhat liberal and broadminded (yes, another pun) guy was shocked and overtly jealous about this, even going so far as to state his head-count (it just never stops...) for partners. The implications were that somehow "these people" deserved it by their licentiousness, and that this was an extreme aberration.

As usual, I drew a different conclusion from this, and from that day, I've seen a lot of homophobia as simple, naked jealousy of others ACTUALLY HAVING A GOOD TIME.

Obviously, the joke's on everyone with this grim bit of idiocy, because I know plenty of love-lorn gay friends/acquaintances/co-workers who haven't had that many experiences, don't have sport-sex and aren't whooping it up endlessly. Once again, most groups of people break down into roughly the same proportions of good/bad, happy/sad, introverted/extroverted, adventurous/timid and all that.

We have a big problem with sex as a culture, and there's a reason for that: business and religion LOVE that. We're also a mess of a species.

H.L. Mencken defined puritanism as: "The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

[CLANG]

49. I can in no way speak against all marines

but the only marine I know well, is a racist, homophobic, America can do no wrong asshole.

[Technowitch]

50. Colonel Frank Fitts...

...the character in American Beauty pretty much epitomizes the hyper-repressed gay-obsessed type.

[PSzymeczek]

51. This needed to be said,

and you said it very well.

[HarborNut58]

52. DADT conversation

I was just having a "spirited debate" about this subject with an old friend. Mind you, he is a right wing, Tea Party supporting parent of two boys in the military.

The thing I found astonishing during our "debate" was that his main problem with the repeal was it may cause some "normal" young military man to get in trouble for "cracking a skull" of an out in the open gay person. This would then ruin the career of some young man. He was also afraid that the identification of these (his words) abnormal, emotionally unstable soldiers would cause the decline in enlistment. Which in turn will not allow us to defend ourselves.

What do you say to this kind of reasoning?

[Smarmie Doofus]

53. I got nothing. n/t

[bengalherder]

54. Well I'd say that

someone who would crack the head of another for being gay is the abnormal, unstable one...but wht do I know, the only ex-marine I ever got close to was bi-sexual and enjoyed messing with the heads of homophobes as part of his job for security for a gay nightclub.

[seabeyond]

56. if these men have so little control, they dont belong in the military. those that would crack

fellow soldiers heads and end up fucking their career.

part of military is the restraint and control.

[DeSwiss]

76. "What do you say to this kind of reasoning?"

This isn't "reason" in any shape or form that I am aware of.

- But what I would say is: "With friends like this, who needs enemies?"

[Cronus Protagonist]

55. Some of them like cock and are afraid of their own desires & feelings

Fact.

[seabeyond]

57. i think another argument could be using their dick to control or have power over women....

gay men would be seeing them in the same manner that they do women.

where is the empowerment there.

no man wants to be viewed or treated the way they do women.

[Scottybeamer70]

58. Death of DADT

Thank you for a great post. You hit several nails with that hammer!!
The nonsense about "marines will be distracted" doesn't say much for
all that "macho" training. If they are that easily distracted, perhaps
they shouldn't be wearing that uniform or carrying a weapon.......:rofl:

[nolabear]

59. Well done. K&R

[valerief]

60. I just wish this civil rights victory wasn't so WAR-related. nt

[customerserviceguy]

66. The military is one of the last few places

where homophobia is still codified.

Besides, integration in the Armed Forces is what helped lessen official racism in America over the last six decades. Sometimes, the military leads the way.

[Swagman]

61. don't forget all the G & Ls who fougnt in WW2 and every other war

[rury]

72. Absolutely right

my father is 90 years old and retired military.
Throughout the DADT debate he said he could not understand what all the fuss was about because there were homosexual men in the military when he was in the army in the 1940s.
He remembers clearly two guys who everybody knew were gay and they would often go off by themselves for periods of time.
They were good soldiers, they did their jobs and nobody bothered or harrassed them or sought to have them discharged.
Yesterday's senate vote was a long overdue victory for civil rights!

[Anakin Skywalker]

62. +1 Rec

[BrklynLiberal]

64. A very eloquent post.

[customerserviceguy]

65. Many people confuse nudity with sex

In their minds, any situation where people are unclothed, there must be a strong sexual component, unless it is explicitly stated or implied that there is not.

A few hours on a clothing-optional beach can go a long way to dispel that notion.

[truedelphi]

67. What you say is very true. However, so much of where we are

is the result of conditioning.

When parents stop the mantras mentally beaten into their children from an early age on, regarding behavior and appearance and what not, then we will have a nation that is truly comfortable with everyone's orientation. And of course, not just parents, but the media and the schools.

This is being written by a woman whose four year old son once told her, "But I am not allowed to cry, Mom. I am a boy, and we don't!"

I think he got that from some of the cartoons he watched. I mean, even on Scoobie Do, the boy children don't cry.

[Kurovski]

71. There are many implications. This is extremely powerful and important

How long can you keep a hero from marrying? It goes on.

Great little OP, Ruggerson! K&R

[orbitalman]

73. That's good! n/t

[Guilded Lilly]

74. Shout it out and can I get a YEEHAAAA as well?

[backscatter712]

75. DADT repeal undermines the sex-negative environment where the god virus thrives.

I don't know how many of you have read The God Virus by Darrell Ray, but he talks about how religion is essentially a memetic virus, spreading from person to person. And in order for the religious viruses to spread, it must have a sex-negative environment, where normal sexual activities are prohibited, so everyone who does them (and let's face it, nearly everyone masturbates) feels guitly, has to get their religious forgiveness fix, get freshly dosed with the virus, in one big cycle, and thus keep the virus going.

Make it so people aren't feeling guilty for normal, healthy sexual activities, and religion doesn't spread very well either, and too many people start questioning that Bronze Age mythology.

So the DADT repeal has the fundies really freaked out right now... I LOVE IT!!! :evilgrin:

[MountainLaurel]

104. OT, but love Darrell Ray

Saw him to a book reading about a year ago, and everything he said made such perfect sense as someone raised in a fundamentalist faith.

[Tripod]

77. K&R n/t

[Shrader]

78. Hear, hear! n/t

[stevenleser]

80. Kick and happy to provide the 170th Rec

It's incredible to watch the meltdown on Free Republic, among other places.

[Jester Messiah]

83. Pretty good insight.

I'm sure that's not the only reason that many of them are shaken today, but I bet it holds true for a fair percentage.

[madrchsod]

84. yup.....well said and a ....

to you!

[salinen]

85. We are ordered to worship the warrior/hero killer

And now that he/she may be gay? Holy mother of Liberace, brains are exploding all over freepdom.

[zigzagzed]

86. The right is insecure

I think that on some level most of the right-wingers know (or at least suspect) the immorality of their beliefs, which is why they surround themselves with like-minded and vocal people who won't force them to think critically. It's groupthink run amok.

[Safetykitten]

87. Great post

[Odin2005]

88. Homophobia is to a large extent derived from misogyny.

hence all the stereotypes of gay men as "feminine".

[jimlup]

89. I respectfully disagree

I think it goes even deeper. It shakes the rightwing males because they are afraid of the "gay" inside of them and can't come to terms with this part of themselves.

[comtec]

90. why is it these discussions always come down to genitalia?

After all the long posts in the feminists forum about being more than their reproductive parts. They always seem to fall back on insulting one's "manliness" and sive of one's penis.

Pathetic.

If you want credit for being better... act like it.

That said. I tend to agree with the overall theme in this thread.
that being, that there is a fear or perception that the "manly" male (because white, black, latino pretty much have the same biggoted attitude towards teh gays), especially the POOR male, is loosing his exclusivity.

Some sense of power is leaving him he knew he had before.
the power to be a hateful bigot towards gays with NO reprocussions at all.

That time is rapidly coming to an end.

Understand me my fellow lgbt...this doesnt mean we're all gonna sing kumbaya. It just means fewer ways to be legally screwed.

But thank (insert divine or not reference here) that this too is finally passing.

[DainBramaged]

91. Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis,

I tend to agree the theme is about the penis, and denying it or refusing to acknowledge it doesn't make you a better person than everyone else here. It makes you look foolish. Words, sorry they hurt you.

[comtec]

93. at least use some variation

johnson, willy, ding-a-ling, klote, pik, pimmel, sausage....

im not hurt at all.
i just find it sad, and not helpful to our side.
sadder still you didnt read the rest of mt post.
but understandable.
ive come to expect that here at DU.

oh well.

[QC]

97. Penis penis bo benis, banana nana fo fenis, me mi mo menis, PENIS! n/t

[comtec]

99. XD

:rofl: :rofl: :spray: :headbang:

[DainBramaged]

98. Com, you are one of the 'good guys', lighten up.

:fistbump:

[NoGOPZone]

92. K&R, and that myth should have been debunked long ago.

I like reminding homophobes about the heroes of 9/11 that were gay.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZgcmjzGWPg

[sudopod]

94. Who says them thar gays can't fight?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

[HardWorkingDem]

100. What an oversimplification of the entire issue...

This kind of thinking is actually quite troublesome in my opinion.

For one thing, it defines the opposing side in a naive and cartoonish way while missing the more important and larger issue when it comes to AMERICAN culture and society and what people are socialized to think when it comes to male homosexuality in AMERICAN culture and society.

In other words, while simply defining how one perceives the Neanderthal-like thought process of a right wing American, the larger issue at hand should be an exploration of the entire American culture when it comes to this issue.

And that is not being done and that is the future of how to deal with this issue as one of discrimination. The question of how does masculinity and sexuality in American culture and society change so that all people are socialized in a country without discrimination.

Simply saying possibly millions of males out there don't want to think of male homosexuality because they are afraid they might like what they find is not the answer.

[jtown1123]

102. So lesbians don't serve either? What about a shout out for the gay ladies?

[B Calm]

106. When I see Boehner crying I know that all men are not macho. . .

[David Zephyr]

107. Too late to give this the R is deserves, but here's an enthusiastic kick.

I've had an emergency at home and I missed this impressive thread.

Ruggerson, you absolutely hit it out of the park.

And I love you.

[FLAprogressive]

108. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours...great post!!!!