The middle class have to work harder for their money, than the rich do.

[The Backlash Cometh]

That's what capitalism is all about.

Clare Huxtable, paraphrased: Rich people let their money work for them. Everybody else has to work for their money.

For anyone who has ever lived in a Latin American country, where the top 10 percent own 90 percent of the resources, you'll understand where the Republicans in America are trying to lead us. Where there is abject poverty, you can really stretch a dollar. And as far as trickle down is concerned, something I overheard says it all when it comes to relying on the rich to give the poor and middle class a stable future:

My father witnessed this:

The man he was with stopped for a shoeshine from a street urchin. It was only fifteen cents for a shoeshine. He gave the boy a quarter and asked for his change back. My father asked why he didn't give the boy the whole quarter and the man replied, that would spoil him.

[panader0]

1. That's a fact

As a bricklayer for forty years, I've seen it first hand most of my life. Laborers work the hardest and make the least. Then tradesmen. Then their bosses who drive around in trucks and give orders. The rich do no real work.

[juajen]

3. I have to agree. I have seen hard work and worked sometimes

twelve or fourteen hours a day for weeks at a time and still managed to raise five children, though it was very hard. Most of that time I was considered a "salaried" employee, so I got no overtime and no one got benefits unless they belonged to a union, except for a paid vacation and a bonus at Christmas, neither of which could touch the number of free hours I gave them, and the lousy salary I was paid. My two sons, both unemployed now, sometimes worked 70 or 80 hrs. a week with no benefits. They worked holidays and never got vacation or any appreciable benefits. I miss unions and the demise of them in this country has cost us the middle class.

[Enrique]

2. i recently saw some website with a tribute to the "American work ethic"

it said America was founded on valuing hard work. It featured a picture of slaveowner George Washington. :crazy:

[Lorien]

4. They must have meant "other people's hard work". nt

[unblock]

5. i think this somewhat misses the real issue, because rich people often do work hard

it's just that the leverage they get from their own wealth, other people's wealth, and other people's labor yields them grossly disproportionate extra profits compared to just the work they put into it.

many rich people do work hard; it's not physically challenging work, but then again, lower paid jobs often are jobs you are done with at quitting time, whereas many rich people are working on their commute home, evenings, and weekends. of course, you probably would too if those extra hours could yield you extra millions.

the question is, why should those weekend emails and phone calls that close a deal be rewarded with soooo much extra loot? so many deals hinge on the various parties having a certain "comfort level" with the other parties. which means emotions and personality considerations enter in, often as much as, if not more, than pure business rationales. this, in turn, means that various forms of bigotry or classism can influence decisions, among other problems.

in any event, it's usually not about the work hours. it's about the unfair compensation for different types of efforts.

[panader0]

10. "work on their way home" ? Like push a button on your blackberry?

That is not work. That's like saying a phone call is work.
My definition of work means actually doing something, not sitting in a cubicle on a computer screen.
What was created? What was built? Not just crunching numbers.

[unblock]

13. don't be silly. there's a ton of real work done sitting in a cubicle on a computer these days.

or is there no real point to a brain, anyway?
only muscle matters?

is the architect who designs the house frivolous?
just get some bricklayers and carpenters to slap it all together anyway they please?

the only people at microsoft who do any real work are the ones who box up the discs?

[Bonhomme Richard]

17. +1 n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. I think the bigger point is that the rich can't provide a stable future for

the poor and middle class. There are 300,000,000 people in this country. No way can they distribute the wealth in a way that will secure our futures.

In fact, the opposite happens. They pick and chose who to favor and that not only creates great inequities, it also fosters corrupt societies.

[unblock]

20. agreed. my theory is that all income has a deserved and undeserved component

for the rich, the undeserved component is positive and large.
for the poor, the undeserved component is actually negative.

in other words, the unregulated market doesn't set prices for labor and effort properly, and virtually all the "mistakes" go in favor of the wealthy.

[dkf]

6. Yet you can't retire if you don't invest enough to make others labor support you

What is social security if not receiving the benefit of someone else's labor.

[unblock]

9. well, technically, yes; but it's in return for having supported retirees while you were working.

[unblock]

7. i think this misses the real issue; rich people often do work hard.

it's just that the leverage they get from their own wealth, other people's wealth, and other people's labor yields them grossly disproportionate extra profits compared to just the work they put into it.

many rich people do work hard; it's not physically challenging work, but then again, lower paid jobs often are jobs you are done with at quitting time, whereas many rich people are working on their commute home, evenings, and weekends. of course, you probably would too if those extra hours could yield you extra millions.

the question is, why should those weekend emails and phone calls that close a deal be rewarded with soooo much extra loot? so many deals hinge on the various parties having a certain "comfort level" with the other parties. which means emotions and personality considerations enter in, often as much as, if not more, than pure business rationales. this, in turn, means that various forms of bigotry or classism can influence decisions, among other problems.

in any event, it's usually not about the work hours. it's about the unfair compensation for different types of efforts.

[dkf]

12. They have figured out how to take a cut from all the people who work for them.

And with larger and larger corporations that have gone global they are making a bit from a huge amount of individuals.

[unblock]

14. exactly. our system has evolved with upward skim

often serious upward skim.

[dkf]

16. And where there used to be more corporations that were spread

more widely now we have one super sized corp. It is the sheer size of corporations that have shut out mom and pop stores from taking their cut of their employees labors, and even decently large corporations have merged and had their CEOs consolidated. Less business owners taking their bit from éven more employées thé world round.

[hfojvt]

8. that isn't always true, but it can be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKQcWEXSKU

Some people who make lots of money also have lots of work and lots of responsibilities and lots of stress. I was struck by what Reich wrote it "Locked in the Cabinet". He writes his schedule as Secretary of Labor on March 2, 1993

6:45 a.m. leave apartment
7:10 a.m. arrive office
7:15 a.m. breakfast with MB from the Post
8:00 a.m. conference call with Rubin
8:30 a.m. Daily meeting with senior staff
9:15 a.m. Depart for Washington Hilton
9:40 a.m. Speech to National Association of Private Industry Councils
10:15 a.m. Meet with Joe Dear (OSHA enforcement)
11:15 a.m. Meet with Darla Latourneau (DOL budget)
12:00 - Lunch with JG from National League of Cities
1:00 p,m. - CNN interview (taped)
1:30 p.m. - Congressional leadership panel
2:15 p.m. - Congressman Ford
3:00 p.m. - NEC budget meeting at White House
4:00 p.m. - Welfare meeting at White House
5:00 p.m. - National Public Radio interview (taped)
5:45 p.m. - Conference call with mayors
6:15 p.m. - telephone time
7:00 p.m. - meet with Maria Escheveste (Wage and Hour)
8:00 p.m. - Kitty and Tom daily briefing
8:30 p.m. - National Alliance of Business reception
9:00 p.m. - Return to apartment

Granted, he does not lift a single table, everything on that schedule involves just sitting, listening and talking, but it looks like a 14 hour day, and if he did that 5 days a week, that's more work than I want to do on a job, even an important job.

[kestrel91316]

11. And the poor have to work even harder.

[Rex]

15. That is why we are serfs and they are barons and dukes.

[lib2DaBone]

18. Work Hard? OMG. I'm making less now than I did in 1975.

Employers are demanding a pound of flesh every day for minimum wage. They have busted the Unions and working conditions are sliding backwards. Bad equipment.. unsafe conditions..forced work off-the-clock.

It's justs awful out there.

If you don't like it?.... They have a stack of 1000 applications for people willing to work cheaper.

[Nikia]

21. It really depends. Hours and effort vary at all income levels

Some minimum wage jobs require an enormous effort for the wage. Other minimum wage jobs require very little work at all. Sometimes this varies with employee. At certain establishments, there may be some employees getting away with doing very little while others work hard for the same wage. Some professional level jobs require intense work for long hours while others don't. Some private business owners work constantly while others use their power and privlege to not do very much. Some rich just invest their money and don't have to do any work at all.
Sometimes I think it is worse to work for the rich who work very hard because they don't understand what it is like to be a normal person and perhaps have some other priorities than personally assuring the success of the business.
I would say that you are right if you consider effort per dollar. For example, on average a person that makes $20/hour isn't working twice as hard as someone making $10/hour.

[baldguy]

22. And that's the core of the problem.

The wealthy foster the myth that they are somehow "entitled" to their wealth - simply because they are wealthy.

And they also deprecate the value of actual labor, which produces their wealth, as if giving workers a fair wage for their labor is conceptually the same as giving a child candy before supper.

Remember, in the movies Mr Potter was the Bad Guy.