Well, Donna Brazille was all alone on Christiane Amanpour's show in

[theophilus]

defending the Wisconsin protests. Even Chrisiane was siding with Will and the Florida Republican. The other guy sitting next to Donna said that Mr. Obama's support of the protest is just a political move. Oh, well. There is not much we can do if the media just amplifies the Republican lies. Will brought in FDR's denunciation of Public Employee Unions. I know there is more to it than that but he was not challenged.

I'm sorry I can link to anything or give more details but I hope that someone smarter than I am can fill all in on this. I normally don't even watch these news shows....I didn't gain from this one.

[mucifer]

1. That's so frustrating. Without media support or even neutrality it's going to be a

very ugly long battle.

[theophilus]

2. "Ugly" is the word. n/t

[butterfly77]

3. Just watch how...

Santelli gets in the teabagger and wallstreet talking points on mtp. Watch Harold ford try to jump on the Wisconsin protestors bandwagon while at the same time telling Dems they need to give in..POS.

[dkf]

4. It's because the panel pays for a part of their healthcare and may not get a pension.

A lot of people who know how much they pay are going to find this unreasonable. If the whole thing is about collective bargaining the union needs to say they will pay the full share of what the average wisconsinite pays in return for collective bargaining. That is the only ace card they have up their sleeve.

[snappyturtle]

6. I thought that is exactly what the union is offerring. Am I wrong? nt

[Bandit]

7. They have no "ace card"

When Collective Bargaining is done away with employees will have no say period. They will pay exactly what their "ruler" says they will pay.. Republicans will always take the position of ruling instead of governeing..The people of Wisconsin do not want their public employees to have any say over their lives..They want to rule over them..That is why Republican have such a huge majority there..The Republicans have forgotten what America is all about..

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. News to you they already did

the Guv, said no

so what do you think this is about now?

[dkf]

14. The portion he was asking for, not the average the private sector pays.

That would one up him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. It IS about breaking the union

they want to do this. That is the reality

I stand with them, sadly I do not think you do

[dkf]

20. That is why it is imperative to one up him.

If they can show they are willing to shoulder the same burdens as the tax paying public but just want to keep their collective bargaining then they will win the argument any which way you look at it.

When things get better, then they can use collective bargaining to build things up again.

Honestly I'm just thinking strategically. I'm for unions that help their people keep pace with the rest of society if they are subject to mistreatment. But they need to be reasonable too.

You know how bad things may get. Holding state workers separate from the trials and tribulations of everyone else will not gain support. Yet I understand the union impulse to not want to give up anything. It is a fighters mentality and works well if it improves fairness.

The problem with accepting the current deal is it still seems great in comparison to everyone else.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. THEY DID ON FRIDAY

the GOVERNOR SAID NO.

So what is this about?

[dkf]

22. They agreed to pay 20% of health care costs?

That is the average the private sector in Wisconsin pays.

You don't see the value in offering to pay more of thr premium than he wants in return for collective bargaining? That would even be a positive from the taxpayers point of view.

I think my state workers are getting a worse deal. I'm not sure but they may be paying 50% of their premium. But their plan is self funded and I think they needed current workers to pay more to support all the retirees. I know someone who jumped to their spouses federal plan and that saved a lot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. So you are all for bringing everybody down

I see. I think we are done.

You simply will NOT get it. Have a good life... I guess we should BUST all unions make them ilegal and make people work for whatever the bosses decide to pay... fast forwards to 1880... is that what you want? It sure sounds like it. By the way, PRIVATE sector workers should get the ORGANIZING bug right now and start doing it as well.

[bvar22]

24. The goal is NOT to LOWER wages & benefits of Union workers....

...to match those without Unions.
The GOAL is to RAISE wages and benefits for EVERYBODY who Works for a Living.

I find it hard to believe that someone on a "Liberal" discussion board would be arguing FOR lower wages and benefits for ANYONE who Works for a Living.


When the Working Class & The Poor realize WE have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the Ruling Class Elite Leadership of BOTH political parties,
we can demand "CHANGE".


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[Tatiana]

25. First of all, you need to lose the wing-nut language.

Union members ARE taxpayers.

Second, you like so many misguided third-way Dems, seem to think that if we have a race to the bottom, that will make everything a-OK. You're missing the point. This isn't about closing a budget deficit. The governor didn't give a shit about the deficit, which is why he gave over $100 million in tax cuts away.

The goal should be to lift private sector workers up, not to bring union and organized workers down.

[grahamhgreen]

29. Caving in to ANYTHING these people ask for never helps. Make them work for it.

[still_one]

5. This is a consorted effort by the republican party to destroy unions once and for all. It started

with reagan

Unless a stand is taken now things are going to get a lot worse. Social Security and Medicare, and the eventual destruction of the middle class

It took a long time for women, workers, and civil rights to make the advances they have. It will take a much shorter time to reverse that process unless the people make a stand

Too many people have sat by ignoring that rights they have taken for granted have been slowly whittling away

[somone]

8. Another reminder about which side the corporate media is on

The corporate media is never on the side of the working class

[mmonk]

10. "Collective bargaining rights".

This is what it is all about. It's not about the cost of labor, pensions, healthcare, etc. but about labor even being able to have a say so in their fate.

[Ninga]

11. Solidarity is a "group activity"... I am driving 2 1/2 hrs to Columbus OH on

Tuesday to support OH public employees. Please find a rally or group in your area, and support them with your presence.

[merbex]

13. And I will be attending a rally in Boston on Tuesday

in supporot of all thos under seige in states where the GOP is attacking collective bargaining rights.

In front of the State House, Beacon Hill 4-6pm Tues. 2/22

[Ninga]

15. Great!

[JoePhilly]

12. And Donna, like every Dem strategist spent the first half of every answer agreeing ..

that major cuts were needed, and then she would say "but ... " and then start to say something, at which point they would interupt her.

She should have said over and over, (in response to any question), "The GOP spent 8 years running up a huge deficit, and now the GOP wants the poorest of Americans to pay for the GOP's fiscal mistakes."

As for Will's FDR comment, that's a standard Will tactic. At some point in almost every panel he does, or anything he writes, he will make a somewhat ambiguous or obscure reference to some historical event which absolutely "supports" his argument of the day.

The only way I can watch Will is by playing what my wife, son and I now call the "George Will Revisionist History Game" . Its fun.

He rarely provides enough details for anyone to check his historical statement. But that doesn't matter anyway. He said what he said on TV, and stupid right wingers around the country turn and nod to each other in agreement.

We love when George Will and Peggy Noonan are on the SAME panel. Then we can also play the "Peggy Noonan 'Who farted?' Game". In that one, we try and count how many times Peggy scrunches up her face as if some one near her just farted but she isn't sure who it was.

[Zoeisright]

17. Well, I just lost all respect for Ms. Amanpour.

What's wrong with her, anyway?

[stillwaiting]

26. Sadly, I'm so cynical that when she got "the job" I had a strong hunch she wasn't an ally.

She wouldn't be allowed to manage the discussion if she were our ally. Her cover was kind of blown here wasn't it?

I have respected some of her coverage over the years, but I don't see her as an advocate for my values.

[Puregonzo1188]

18. The American media's always been anti-labor, even in the 19th century.

Nothing new here.

[southernyankeebelle]

19. I stopped watching the sunday news shows altogether because if I want to see a republican talking

then I'll tune into fox republican news station.

[datasuspect]

23. the media's paychecks are inextricably entwined with maintaining republican repression

simple,

[closeupready]

27. Why don't people seem to get that? I mean, when people here

are asking "what is her problem, Amanpour, pushing RW talking points???", that tells me people generally do NOT understand that tax cuts lead DIRECTLY to MORE TAKE-HOME INCOME for such people, not infrequently in the amounts of hundreds of thousands of $$$. (And I consider myself a liberal capitalist, but even I understand the connection.)

[grahamhgreen]

28. "Even Christiane" - that woman always sides with the neo-cons.

[Dawson Leery]

31. The Corporate owned media pays millions to their "hosts" to spread propaganda.

The elites are in their tiny bubble.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Cleita]

32. I used to like Christiane back when she reported on

the Bush push to the wars. It seems she's drinking the Kool-Aid these days. I have tried to watch her new show but can't stomach her predominantly right wing guests and even Donna Brazille is only slightly to the left of Reagan.