23 percent can't pass military exam

[The Straight Story]

23 percent can't pass military exam

MIAMI — Nearly one-fourth of the students who try to join the military fail its entrance exam, painting a grim picture of an education system that produces graduates who can't answer basic math, science and reading questions.

The report by The Education Trust found that 23 percent of recent high school graduates don't get the minimum score needed on the enlistment test to join any branch of the military. The study, released exclusively to The Associated Press on Tuesday, comes on top of Pentagon data that shows 75 percent of those aged 17 to 24 don't qualify for the military because they are physically unfit, have a criminal record or didn't graduate high school.

"Too many of our high school students are not graduating ready to begin college or a career — and many are not eligible to serve in our armed forces," U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan told the AP. "I am deeply troubled by the national security burden created by America's underperforming education system."

The effect of the low eligibility rate might not be noticeable now — the Department of Defense says it is meeting its recruitment goals — but that could change as the economy improves, said retired Navy Rear Admiral Jamie Barnett.

http://www.app.com/article/20101221/NEWS06/101221063/-23-percent-can-t-pass-military-exam-

[Kennah]

1. See the movie "Idiocracy"

Real life screenings coming soon to a town near you.

[Arctic Dave]

2. Just lower the bar, problem solved.

[Bobbieo]

6. That is exactly what is going to happen, too. We can't go to war without soldiers.

[SoCalDem]

13. and bullet catching does not require a degree

:(

[sofa king]

21. Wellington said...

"that no parallel can be drawn between armies recruited by conscription from all classes of the people, and an army of which the constituent elements are drawn from the very dregs of society; between armies docile, moral and sensible to reproof, and an army of hardened blackguards, given up to debauchery and drunkenness; between armies numerous, and capable of sustaining a relaxed discipline, and a small force, in which the slightest approach to weakness leads to disorders which might result in irreparable disasters."

He should know, having had to fight the former with the latter and barely coming off the victor half a dozen times.

But yeah, it's bound to happen.

Edit: source: http://books.google.com/books?id=ETnSAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=duke+of+wellington+dregs&source=bl&ots=EgqMn_-aDR&sig=4dl5VdDlwJdzY1oqjt0SxjCweUg&hl=en&ei=30kRTdvABoK78gaf_4zrDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=duke%20of%20wellington%20dregs&f=false (History of the Life of Arthur, blah, blah.)

[tblue37]

20. They will. They lowered the bar to accept people with criminal records, so why wouldn't they lower

yet another bar to get warm bodies if they fall short of their recruitment goals.

(I have heard that they sometimes also let in people who can't pass the physical.)

[stevenleser]

34. There is no problem. The military is meeting its goals despite this. There are plenty of applicants

being that it is hard to find a job otherwise.

[Poll_Blind]

44. I don't have a link but that is exactly what has happened in the past.

Especially when recruitment has been low during these Bush/Obama wars.

PB

[gratuitous]

3. This is the education system certain segments of our society wanted

There has been a very dedicated effort in the last 50 years to make sure that our young people don't develop critical thinking skills, have poor reading comprehension and obey authority figures. This report should surprise no one at how successful those forces have been.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. Hubby once said the days of the uneducated fighting wars is over

Even your basic "grunt" has to have a level of mental aptitude not required ever before.

I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

War sucks though, that part is still constant.

We should have fewer of them.

[bluestate10]

16. War is only going to become more technologically driven.

Ever watched the Terminator movie series, or Star Wars? If not, you may want to start to get an idea of what you may live to fight. Flying drones being manipulated be a soldier at a console is nothing compared with what is around the corner. Weapons that can think on their own within broad dimensions, disguise their presence, create their killing or neutralizing weapon of choice instantly, track and kill in multiple ways are just around the corner. The days of a soldier firing an assault weapon are numbered. Future soldiers will have enough education and high level technical skill to efficiently control weapons that acting alone and not controlled, could track and kill people one by one, in one day, in numbers that add up to a small city's population. Scary, but this is where war is headed. Any John Connors among us?

[Kalyke]

47. I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Have you ever talked to a modern-day Marine?

And I'm not coming at this as a hippie pacifist or a do-gooder. My grandfather was a Marine D.I. (think Arlie - the man made me cry the first time I saw him because he reminded me of my grandfather so much).

But, today?

Today, they're about as stupid as a box of Palins.

[stevenleser]

53. This is an unfair generalization. n/t

[Kalyke]

54. Agreed. I was being obtuse.

Still...

My son's friends come over here and say they learn more in a hour being around me and our family than they do at school.

We have to recognize that most of our children are being stupefied and that those who are on the lower end to standardized testing are cannon fodder. One of my son's friends didn't do well in on ONE T-CAP. ONE. And he couldn't be in band. Around here, band members are as hailed as most sports stars, outside of football. They have three-year commitment to band or no-go. So... he can't do what he wanted to do because of ONE bad standardized score when he was in honors classes in elementary school.

That's fucking stupid. Not him.

[notesdev]

19. You can't educate them too much

otherwise too many start asking questions like "why are we fighting this war in the first place?"

[stevenleser]

35. A high percentage of the enlisted force has at least two years of college nowadays

the idea of the dumb grunt is passe.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

41. Nor are they isolated.

hubby and the rest were very aware of the political debates while overseas.

They had newspapers, internet, letters from home, etc.

The "General Betray-Us" is serious sore point with him. The general is very well admired by his troops.

Comments like the one above yours makes me glad sometimes my husband won't read DU. It's insulting while pretending to be pity.

[stevenleser]

51. There are way too many ignorant comments in this thread. Those who know nothing about the military

or the people who serve are making all kinds of assumptions that are completely incorrect.

[notesdev]

58. You should see some of the ignorant morons with more education than that

degrees these days say more about one's ability to assume debt than they do about one's level of knowledge on any given subject. The number of college graduates I have seen without the math skills to fully comprehend the magnitude of their own student loans is astonishing. And history is barely taught at all.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

64. We call them politicians

And yet, strangely, we keep voting for them.

What does that say about us?

[stray cat]

5. Why do people need to be able to read, write or add and subtract to get a job?

Why do so many think they deserve a job if they cannot perform the work?

[sudopod]

31. :(

This post is bad and you should feel bad.

[LibDemAlways]

7. This is nothing new. My dad was assigned to give tests

to potential recruits during WWII. He personally fudged the results many times to admit those who couldn't pass but wanted to serve.

[Hannah Bell]

10. yep. nothing to do specifically with today's education system whatsoever.

but everything is an opportunity for teacher-bashing to some propagandists.

if anything, today's tests are harder, but they've always been designed to cut a certain percentage of recruits & "norm" the rest on a bell curve.

jesus h christ.

[Arctic Dave]

8. I guess this is what happens you put more money and effort

into the military machine then the school system.

Ironic.

[Kalyke]

50. I guess so... THAN (not then).

[Hannah Bell]

9. & the same was true 30 & 60 years ago, & the same hand-wringing editorializing.

[Hannah Bell]

11. idiotic & propagandistic article. five minutes thought will explain why.

[ingac70]

12. How well do you need to read to be cannon fodder? n/t

[Kaleva]

15. The idea is to make the enemy cannon fodder, not your own troops.

[ingac70]

17. Combat troops are cannon fodder.

Especially if you are the one invading enemy territory.

[stevenleser]

33. No, they are not, just as the poster who responded to you said. n/t

[Kaleva]

14. "Nearly 40 percent of black students and 30 percent of Hispanics don't pass,..

compared to 16 percent of whites."

[SmileyRose]

42. -1

Normally I would +1 a valuable point like that but the point I'm agreeing with is so tragic that I just couldn't bring myself to use the + sign.

:cry:

[Kaleva]

70. The info I posted deserves a negative.

I think the military ought to take alot of the low scoring minorities and give them a chance which would include schooling to bring their education up to par. Many of these kids have no future other then prison time and/or and early death and a stint in the military just might be a way out for them.

[XemaSab]

18. If you need to be in the 31st percentile to pass, then 30% will fail

That's just how the math shakes out.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

69. Congratulations!

You've just been accepted for enlistment.

:party:

[Tatiana]

22. Oh and I'm sure Arne thinks firing more experienced teachers is the solution to our national

security "burden."

Please. Even JFK eventually was allowed to serve... back problems and all. When they need more bodies, they will adjust the entrance requirements accordingly to meet the need.

This sounds suspiciously like another reason to bash teachers.

[revolution breeze]

23. The test has never been about intelligence

It is a skills assessment, seeing where you strengths lie to determine what field you are best suited for. Daughter was convinced she wanted to be in law enforcement, ASVAB scores were higher in science, she went in as a medic and is now in nursing school. I have never seen her happier.

[Kaleva]

24. I scored well. Recruiter talked me into Advanced Electronics Field.

Required a 6 year enlistment and at the end of boot camp, I became a Fire Control Technician (Missiles) or FTM for short. Then spent the next two years in various schools before being assigned to my first ship.

[revolution breeze]

25. Thank you for your service to our country.

Hubby served 22 years (RM, then IT), it was hard when daughter decided to go Army.

[cpwm17]

26. Test is design to eliminate lower scoring applicants

"Recruits must score at least in the 31st percentile on the first stage of the three-hour test to get into the Army or the Marines. Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard recruits must have higher scores."

By design a significant percentage of applicants will not qualify. Theoretically the bottom 30% of all potential applicants will not pass. Since 23% of actual applicants don't pass, they are doing better than would be expected. In the future if test takers perform better, the scoring would probably be adjusted to maintain the 31st percentile requirement.

Perhaps the test is standardized against high school students, but many actual test takers are older. I'm not sure. I joined the Air Force at age 27 and scored really high. I know I had an advantage, including college education.

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. It would be very nice to see a gender breakdown of those who fail the test.

The report notes that 76% of the study sample was male and 24% female, but unlike race, they don't break down the data by gender.

It would be interesting to see if this study supports or undermines the general trend of male educational failure.

[Kalyke]

55. Male educational failure?

Hahahahahaha.

I have a son who is kicking ass and taking names. What male educational failure?

[lumberjack_jeff]

56. Yeah. I hear that a lot.

Some form of a smiley, and a belief that this is all that is required to make the facts fit the ideology.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/learning/why-boys-fail-in-school.html

--Among recent college graduates, women accounted for 62 percent of the two-year associates degrees and 57 percent of the bachelors degrees.
--Recent scores from the National Assessment of Educational Progress--a test often calld the "nation’s report card" because it is the only standardized test given to students in districts across the country--show a gender gap. Among high school seniors, nearly 23 percent of the white sons of college-educated parents scored “below basic” in reading skills, compared to 7 percent of their daughters.
--According to a 2006 survey of 11,500 high school students in 26 states, 55 percent of girls reported earning grades of A or B, compared to 41 percent of boys.

The US educational system IS systematically failing boys. I strongly suspect that the test results in the article above would bear this out, but the authors didn't see fit to report on their gender-based findings.

I argue that it is designed to systematically fail boys.

...and I have three.

[Kalyke]

60. Did you ever think it might be because they're lazy?

Far too many men believe they are entitled.

My son isn't one of those.

Oh - and we live in Tennessee. Our standardized testing (groan) allegedly got tougher because our state took the Arne money to bastardize our teachers. We parents were warned and warned - it was in the newspaper, even - that T-CAP scores would go down, but that didn't mean our formerly "smart" children were failures, but that the TESTS had changed. They were NOW looking at retention of material and not regurgitation. And, by gosh, gee, all mighty. Most students were lower.

Not my kiddo. My son, who scored above the 95th percentile under the OLD testing method scored in the 98th percentile.

And he's a BOY. And he's not allowed to be a lazy ass who sits while his mother and sister do shit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

61. Uh huh.

:rofl:

1) what percentage of college graduates are men?
2) what percentage of high school dropouts are boys?
3) what is the average HS gpa of boys? Girls?

In contrast
1) what is the average SAT score of boys?
2) what is the average Math SAT score for boys?

Boys show academic mastery through testing, yet the educational system fails them anyway.

Anecdotes are a very poor argument. Anecdotes defended by sexist stereotypes suck.

In fairness, my original suspicion is probably wrong. I now suspect that the test results may be similar to the SAT results.

"They're lazy" is a sexist stereotype. "They're smarter" is a sexist stereotype with data to back it up.

[mwb970]

65. Global warming?

Hahahahahaha.

It's freezing cold at my house today. What global warming?

[jtuck004]

59. Maybe it tried to mirror the population that enlists, 75% male or so? n.t

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. I'm not curious about the relative sample size. I'm curious about the relative failure rate. n/t

[jtuck004]

63. Ok. I do wonder how many were dropouts. I know I dropped out

at 17, figured the service would be better. Got a GED, took the tests, got assigned to nuclear schools, then they changed it "for the good of the service" out of boot camp ;)

But there were a lot of kids who simply left school and tried to join.

[BOG PERSON]

28. too stupid even for the military??

:wow:

[stevenleser]

36. The idea of the dumb grunt is passe. Most enlistees have some college under their belts.

High tech weapons and computers abound in the modern military.

[Cid_B]

57. Not all edumacated like you...

You are a walking (typing?) stereotype...

[bullwinkle428]

29. What an incredibly depressing report this was to hear, on NPR

this afternoon.

Sample math question : If 2 + x = 4, what is x ?

:facepalm:

[RagAss]

40. uhhhhh.....x squared?

[Zanzobar]

46. x = x squared?

Not here. Sorry.

[XemaSab]

45. Go to Military.com and take the sample test

I took it and DAMN... it was pretty brutal.

I did very well on it, but there were whole sections that were multiple guess. :P

[Kalyke]

52. I'll do it. Where do I go on the site to find it?

[DireStrike]

68. It's the ASV...whatever link on the side

I started to take it but they asked for name, address, and a bunch of other crap so I could be contacted by recruiters. I'll pass.

[Phentex]

66. On our news, she said "If 2 x 2 = 4, what is the value of x?"

LOL!

[MedicalAdmin]

67. I prefer this simple math question. What is 2 + 2 x 2 x 2?

Hint: remember your order of operations.

[Zywiec]

30. A larger percentage can't get in because they are fat. n/t

[Lasher]

32. I tried to fail my entrance exam and the Army still took me.

Things sure have changed.

[SheilaT]

37. My first thought is

that those actually applying and taking the exam are probably not drawn from the top percentage of high school grads in the first place.

[cemaphonic]

38. Yeah, I noticed that too

23% of those who apply & take the test, not 23% of all grads. Given that we've been in shooting wars for almost a decade, I would imagine that the military isn't all that attractive, even with the cruddy economy.

[davidthegnome]

39. A few years ago

I went to the Marines to sign up, was told they couldn't talk to me because I had a GED instead of a high school diploma. I went to the Army next where I achieved a pretty high score on their test - they were impressed that I did it without using scrap paper.

Then they started asking me what I wanted to do. The Recruiter suggested Airborne Infantry, asking, "You wanna jump outta planes and shoot people?" That was so not the idea I had going in. I was thinking, defend my Country, earn a living, help protect the innocent. Perhaps he phrased the question the wrong way or perhaps an alarm bell went off in my head. More likely it was my Father yelling at me when he found out I went in that ultimately convinced me I shouldn't join.

I wonder if the Recruiter could have passed the test....

[XemaSab]

48. Note well that nuclear technician and public relations

require the two highest scores on the test. :D

[Marr]

43. Wow-- so the people who want to dismantle our schools think the schools suck?

I didn't realize that! Tell me more about our illiterate children, and how further eroding the education system will solve the problem, Arne!

[Nevernose]

49. Absolutely ridiculous to blame that on a "failed education system"

Isn't the whole point of that test to weed out unqualified applicants? If everybody could pass it, how would our military weed out the bottom 25%?