Diners Ask Restaurant For 47 Separate Checks... And That's Before They Pulled Out Their Groupons

[The Straight Story]

If you've ever worked in a restaurant, you've had them: huge, boisterous groups that take up your entire section, demand special treatment, and stay forever. Server Not Servant hears tell of a particularly atrocious large group: a 47-top of college students celebrating the end of finals dropped into an unnamed Boston restaurant unannounced, ate, and then informed their server they wanted separate checks.

Not only that, but that most of them wanted to use a Groupon deal that specified only one deal per table per meal. Turns out they thought the separate checks would qualify them as separate tables. (It didn't work that way.)

In the end, they worked out an arrangement that satisfied both the restaurant staff and the group, and still came up $60 short. One of the students ponied up the dough and the manager comped his after-lunch drinks. Not too shabby, considering the alternative.


http://eater.com/archives/2010/12/20/47-top-asks-for-separate-checks-and-uses-groupon.php

[lunatica]

1. Were they planning on leaving 47 pennies as the tip? One for each of them?

That would have added insult to injury.

[Fumesucker]

22. What used to really chap my ex who waited tables for a while was this..

"Christian" women who would come in a group and be demanding customers and then leave a religious tract as a "tip", and then justify it by saying such a tract was more valuable than money because it could save the recipient's immortal soul.

[tammywammy]

24. The Sunday after church crowd is the worst n/t

[ixion]

2. There better have been a nice tip in that agreement

very sad behavior from these students, in my opinion.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

7. A tip? From a bunch of college students?

I suppose it could happen.

:hi:

[uncommon]

10. That's not really fair. I always tipped in college. And so did my friends.

I know a lot of college kids are bums, but not all of them.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. So did we. Mostly cows.

[ixion]

18. I tipped when I was a college student

although admittedly I worked as a bartender in college, so I understand the meaning of a tip to someone who works for them. Although I knew other college students who tipped well, too. :toast:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

50. Yes, some college students tip

But for large parties, I didn't expect much of a tip. I think some of the crowd tossed in a normal, good tip, and some contributed zero tip.

Bartenders, waiters, etc, probably tip 100% of the time, even decades after finding another line of work.

And when I use a Groupon, or other discount, I base the tip on the full price. Unless the restaurant automatically adds the service fee, a topic for another thread.

:hi:

[TalkingDog]

64. I started working at 14 to help pay bills. Wait Staff

was one of my many teenage jobs.

Some people who have put themselves through college actually know what it's like to work for a living.

[Hawkeye-X]

19. we did use groupon before

most times, if you want the discount, gratuity is added.

[Ilsa]

44. Minimum 20%, IMO.

Groups like this tend to halt table turnover which limits tip earnings.

BTW, I always tipped well for meals when I was in college, including for the full cost of a meal when I was using coupons.

[former9thward]

62. If they were $60 short on the bill I doubt there was any tip.

[rfranklin]

3. Groupon is a nightmare....

I have yet to hear of a merchant actually making money with that scheme. They usually insist on an offer so low that after they take their 50% cut the merchant is actually losing money on each customer. And the customers it attracts, as noted in this story, are cheap and usually not good repeat customers.

[rucky]

6. I can vouch for this.

The rationale is that it ends up being cheaper than most local advertising, and at least you can measure your response. We got about 40 new people to come to the store, they rarely spent more than the groupon allotment, we got about half of them to join our mailing list. Can't yet say we got a positive ROI from it, but we did get some cash flow at a time when we needed it.

[uncommon]

11. Groupon deals are great for the consumer though.

And most people who I know who use coupons do so responsibly and politely. And tip on the original price of a meal, not the discount price.

[2Design]

16. thats me - cheap - poor too

[lunatica]

38. If you're poor what are you doing eating in restaurants?

I'm pretty poor too, and restaurant dining is one of the first things that got cut.

[NeedleCast]

43. In defense of "the poor" eating in resturants

I've had a few customers that I got to know well over the years and more than you might think would fall into the category of poor or low-middle class income range. In honesty, those people were often the best customers. They had good manners and were usually friendly. Most of them were also smart diners who understand that even at a fine dining resturant you can get pasta meals for under 20 dollars and that two people can split an appitizer and both order an entree and leave the restaurant paying less than 60 dollars (including tip).

For those people, dining out was a once or twice a year treat. They enjoyed it, and generally the servers who served them enjoyed the customer as well.

[lunatica]

52. I was a waitress many years ago so I know about tipping

And I too go out once a year or so. I enjoy it much more than I used to since it's an infrequent event.

[2Design]

56. for me I eliminate other things - eating out is easier for one person

and with coupons it makes sense sometimes - and it is nice to be out - I don't order soda, coffee, or desert, or alcohol which are all very high mark up items - I am the water drinker - I tip a dollar no matter the cost of the meal - a breakfast has more monkey dishes but cost less and most of the servers - someone else delivers - cost of meal doesn't equate to work to deliver the meal to the table - I don't make a mess

I don't think I should deny myself eating out because the prices have gone crazy
Same with hair cuts as they raise the prices, no more tipping

Yes I have waited tables in the past and know that is important but restaurants need to start paying better or lower their prices - no my fault they pay so low

[NeedleCast]

57. no my fault they pay so low

Wrong. You are part of the problem.

In many European countries, servers are paid a living wage. I wish it were the case here, but it is not. The fact is that most servers in the US depend on tips to make a living. You know this. You worked in the industry. When you go out to eat at a restaurant where you will be served, you are by default agreeing to the American version of the rules. Serving people like you actually cost servers and other people who are dependant on tips money. They have to pay for gas to get to work. They often have to buy meals from the place they work. And when you take up their time and table space and leave a poor tip, you cost them money.

Now, you've done (like most people like you) a good job of creating a justification for acting like a jackass, but don't even for a minute kid yourself...you are one. You can blame the restaurants and the salons all you want, but the problem is you. Not the industry. You.

It is partially your fault that they pay so low. Because most people will leave a standard tip, owners can justify low pay by pointing out that most servers make above minimum wage when their tips are included. They further justify this by being able to take a pool or average of tips, marginalizing persons like yourself who know they're under tipping (or not tipping at all).

How you can have worked in the industry, knowingly under tip servers and call yourself a liberal (or even a decent human being) is beyond my ken.

[Systematic Chaos]

59. Awesome post.

Much kinder than what was on my mind.

[NeedleCast]

65. Special Places in Hell

For those who molest children
For those who mistreat animals
For former food service workers who knowingly under tip.

[Jakes Progress]

71. Nailed it. Lack of decency and sense of entitlement

are evident here.

I've never waited tables. Never done a job that called for tipping. But I know the right and wrong of the contract you enter into when you sit down to dine.

If you can't or don't want to tip, stay out of restaurants and bars. Or admit you are a self-serving, selfish, republican pig.

[Systematic Chaos]

73. I delivered pizza for the Domino's in Hastings, MN in the early 90s.

The guy who owned it was a total Republican, but all things considered not too bad a guy.

Anyway, we had all-day delivery within the town proper, and then during peak hours when there were lots of drivers we also did "country runs." These areas out in the sticks were comprised of massive homes with huge, often forested, yards.

Care to guess what we made in tips on the average country run (3-4 miles away), vs. the average in-town delivery (blocks away)?

If my memory from almost 20 years ago serves, the average country run yielded a $1 tip with a "stiff" rate of about 50%. The regular folks in town averaged about a $2.50 tip with a 10-15% "stiff" rate. And some of the most generous people of all were apartment dwellers just kinda getting by like most of us.

We used to intentionally jockey for position to not get the country runs, if at all possible. Made a good-spirited competition out of it, even. :)

[2Design]

79. pizza people I tip minimum $2 but usually $3 dollars and I am less than 2 miles

[Codeine]

60. You tip a dollar no matter the cost?

That's really rude.

[tammywammy]

67. It's not just rude

It's assholish.

My minimum tip is $5, even if my total bill is $10, I still tip $5. I know by seating one they're losing out on a larger party. Plus I want to make up for the assholes that only tip $1.

[NeedleCast]

68. Thank You

I don't work in the industry anymore, but I did for eight years and it's thanks to people like you that there aren't more servers sitting in corners after their shifts crying because they made 32 dollars off a 10 hour double-shift.

And because it restores some level of faith in humanity that for every person who "leaves a dollar no matter what the bill" there's someone like you making up for it.

Seriously, thank you.

[Codeine]

70. Point taken. Well beyond rude. nt

[nadine_mn]

81. ridiculous - "I tip a dollar no matter the cost of the meal"

I briefly - very briefly - worked as a waitress in college and I sucked. Before that I worked as a dishwasher through high school and envied waitresses - thinking I had the crap job with no tips. Being a waitress is a thankless sucky job.

where I waitressed I was paid about half of minimum wage and told to make it up in tips. I had to report the tips and if I didn't make it up, the business did however if I continued to "underperform" I would be let go. That is some serious stress.

I am unemployed and lower middle class (thank goodness husband has a job that keeps us ok) and when we do go out - I tip at least 20% - unless service is really bad (as in the waitress is rude) then I tip 10% and leave a note as to why.

I have been getting my haircut at the same salon for over 7 yrs with the same stylist - not only do I tip between 20-30% I make sure to give her a holiday bonus in a card of roughly the cost of a haircut ($30-$40). She is really great and I think my hair would leave my head if I quit going to her. I know that the service industry takes the biggest cut in a recession - people go out less and tip less. I know I have cut back on how often I get my hair done or we go out to dinner, which is why I try to tip a little more now.


the "I don't make a mess" comment kills me - they still have to clean up after you no matter how messy you are and places that have servers bring out the dishes often pool tips so you are shafting the whole staff.

[NeedleCast]

31. Partially True

Most restaurants realize they're going to lose money when they put out a Groupon deal. The point is to attract a person to a restaurant in the hopes that they'll come back. Groupon tends to work better for fine dining restaurans, especially new ones in a crowded market that need to make a name.

[Phentex]

55. I have heard the Groupon stories but I have had good luck...

however I have been very selective in what I purchase. I have had good experiences at restaurants so far except for the one where the place closed before I could use it.

[NeedleCast]

61. I Think Groupon and similar services are very useful

I think a lot of restaurant owners would agree, especially in larger cities where dining options are plentiful. Groupon is a great way to get your new restaurant name out there (assuiming it doesn't suck). You'll probably take an initial loss on using their service, but if you generate some good word of mouth, a positive paper or magazine review and some repeat business because of that, the long term payout is great.

[dkf]

4. Well did you see the stories on college debt?

They probably have no money and are in ridiculous debt. No wonder they are cheap

[Darth_Kitten]

8. No, just spoiled brats.

They maybe never had to work to help support their educations.

[uncommon]

12. Seriously?

:eyes:

[Darth_Kitten]

74. Uh, yeah.

:eyes:

[dkf]

13. Their mistake is that they didn't ask to be seated separately.

If so everything would have been fine.

[whathehell]

17. As long as the didn't have only one waiter.

Have you ever been a waiter?...I have and this kind of thing sucks, to put it bluntly.

[dkf]

21. Wouldn't the number of waiters be the prerogative of the restaurant?

But these people will all need to come back anyway. They wanted to use their groupons which they already paid for and weren't able to use. So they are kind of screwed too. They landed up paying full price and still have to come back with the possibility of spending more.

[whathehell]

53. Yes, It's always the "prerogative" of employers to try and exploit people

but most on this board tend to frown on that sort of thing.

Groupons can be used any time within one year. I know. I've used them.

Have you ever been a waited tables for a living?


I have. My guess would be that you have not.

[aikoaiko]

27. yep.

[jberryhill]

20. Umm.... No

If they are IN college, then they aren't paying on those loans.

[dkf]

23. Yeah because you didn't start paying your loans that means you aren't in debt?

Crazy. That's just like saying your no payment for one year 60 inch TV didn't cost anything.

That is also the same mentality that says my credit card debt only costs $15 minimum payment.

[jberryhill]

29. Yes - it is the same mentality

And it is why college students with those loans spend a lot of money

[dkf]

33. Apparently this crowd is trying to not spend so much which I would call sensible.

And of course waiters hate cheap people...they rather have the rich people who have the wherewithal to buy whatever they want and drink what they want and to tip well.

I guess this is the one time we like rich people and despise the ones without an income.

[NeedleCast]

34. This isn't a class issue

Its a matter of being old enough to understand right and wrong. Regardless of what one things of the restaurant policies in the US, by eating at one, you are de facto accepting the "rules."

In my career working in restaurants I have met plenty of lower income people who dine out once or twice a year who were perfectly capable of calculating an 18%-20% tip. I have met plenthy of rich people who were not. Your income has little to do with your ability to tip, assuming the person in question is not an asshole.

[jberryhill]

35. Apparently - because if you don't tip well, don't take advantage of others

Income bears little relation to how well people tip.

If you think dining out is an opportunity to take advantage of other lower income people - i.e. the waitstaff - please stay home.

[LanternWaste]

76. Then don't eat out...?

"They probably have no money and are in ridiculous debt..."
Then don't eat out...?

Calling Dr. D'uh.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Fortunately it was Boston

Could have ended in gun play in some parts of the country...

The family of college idiot students is an old one, certainly stemming back past my membership in the 1980s.

[cali]

9. grrr. where I work, there are no separate checks for parties over

8. And if they don't like it, they don't need to come.

[dkf]

14. How would a world with no cash work for restaurants?

Would there always then be one poor sucker who needs to foot the bill?

I ask because I heard this as a proposal to prevent funding of terrorism and illicit activities. This would also force everything out of the underground economy.

[aikoaiko]

25. Separate checks is perfectly normal and when the store offered the groupons they were already liable

for the discounts individually if they were bought individually, but the disclaimer about one deal per table must be honored by the customer.

[NeedleCast]

32. Seperate checks on a party of 47 is not normal anywhere

[aikoaiko]

36. So few people carry cash that separate checks with even large parties is really the norm now.

Unless there is restaurant policy stated explicitly, you have to expect it.

[NeedleCast]

42. That's just not true

While I don't work in restuarants any more, I'm good friends with many people who do. I would guess, on average, that less than 20% of tables ask for seperate checks. The number of tables that ask for a check to be split (i.e. multiple credit cards/cash being used to pay one check) is on the rise, but that's different than splitting a check.

Any good restauranteer is going to know too, how people attempt to game the system with split checks and discounts.

Beyond that, I'm generally fine with large parties asking for seperate checks as long as they do so up front and don't try to rip-off the restaurant. Discounts of any kind should also be mentioned to a server up front so when the inevitable table of 47 assclowns try to pull a stunt like this, it can be nipped before it becomes a problem. I say this because it will imporve the dining experience of the customer as well. If I had a nickle for every time I had a table tell me at the end of their meal that they are "kinda in a hurry...oh and we have this coupon, oh, and we need you to do a five-way split on the check" I'd have enough nickles to fill a sock and beat the shit out of them with it.

[aikoaiko]

45. I was including multiple cards to pay for one check, but I can see the difference.

Of course, the ease of separate checks really depends on the point of sale software.

[NeedleCast]

47. True, bad PoS software can add to the problems

I don't mind multiple card/cash payments half as much as I mind people who tell me they need a split after I've presented the bill. Especially if they all have cards.

Pro-Tip: If you're going to use more than two cards per table, or are not doing an even split on two cards, write down the last four of the card number and how much you want assigned to each card on the ticket. Your server will appreciate not having to remember what you want spread over five different cards and it decreases the chance of error.

Terminology wise outside "the indudustry" I can see the confusion but a split payment and split checks are different animals inside a restaurant.

[Ter]

77. They should have told the serve before they ordered

It's easier if you know first, you can ring it in easier rather than separate at the end.

[aikoaiko]

78. I agree 100%, but I also think the waitstaff could have asked if it was a problem for them.

I would have asked as a waiter.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

72. this sort of crap is why some restaurants

will not separate checks for parties of more than 8 any more...not even in half. they should have been told they could have separate checks if they had exact change + a 20% gratuity.

i would have told them no...simply...

sP

[southernyankeebelle]

26. I wonder how these assholes would feel if they had been the waitress or waiter? Many of these

waitresses or waiters work on tips. Shame on those students.

[HopeHoops]

28. Morons. Any party even CLOSE to that large should call ahead and the trick was stupid.

No wait, it was beyond stupid - they're assholes.

[NeedleCast]

30. As a fromer server, manager and GM of restaurants, this would have made me homicidal

Seriously, how do you make it through college without knowing basic restaurant ettiquete?

On the other hand, having a sudden influx of 47 dish-washers and bussers for the rest of the day would be nice. I'd let my regular dish washers and bussers have the day off with pay while I had 47 college students doing their work.

For those who may not know, here's some helpful hints:

1. Splitting a check is fine (however the higher end the restaurant, the more it's generally frowned on). If you're going to need a split check, tell the server up front so he or she can note it on your ticket. This will make the processes of getting your bill faster at the end of your meal. If you have a large party and a multiple split and don't tell your server up front, your right to complain about the time it takes to get your bill is zero.

2. If using a Groupon or other special price service, you tip on what the bill would be BEFORE the special is taken out. Failing to do this makes you a jackass.

[aikoaiko]

40. What about restaurant responsibilty?

1. In most restaurants with large parties, I get asked if we need separate checks. Makes good sense if it is important to know.

2. Totally agree. But then again, restaurants can calculate the tip based on the base rate and include it in the bill.

[NeedleCast]

46. both the restaurant and the customer make the dining experience good or bad

1. To some degree, that's true. However, in some restaurants, especially on the higher end, some customers will be emberassed by the server asking if they need seperate checks. Is it ridiculous? Yes. But to the server it can mean the difference between a 18% and an 8% tip on a 300 dollar check. When random aristocratic jackwagon comes in with his family of ten and gets all huffy because he thinks the server is suggesting he can't pay the entire check, bad things happen to tips. Its just one of those things...and it's a thing that - by knowing how to be a good customer - you can make a non-issue by mentioning it to your server up front.

Again, it's about the dining expereince and we want the customer to have a good one. If you're a four-top in a fine dining restaurant or even an Applebees and your party orders 27 items between them (drinks, apps, entrees, etc.) and THEN you request a seperated check, the server is not going to be able to deliver your check in a timely manner because they have to figure out who goes with each of those 27 items.

2. That's almost always a lose-lose situation. Most parties DO NOT like auto-grat (automatically included tip). There are two schools of thought on this. One is that it's better to just take an auto-grat 18% tip on a large party than risk getting stiffed. The other is that it's better to roll the dice and hope for a 20-25% tip and run the risk of getting 10% or 5% or zero. That is, generally, why restaurants use auto-grat on larger parties. If I have a two-top come in a leave a shit tip, then I can still have a good night off my other tables but if I have an eight-top come in and basically occupy half my section for 3 hours then leave me 5% on a 400 dollar check, I've actually lost money on the night. So it's generally a bad idea from a server standpoint to have the restaurant putting auto-grat on smaller parties...that's why coupons can be such a nightmare.

[Javaman]

37. You want nightmare stories? go to stainedapron.com.

you will get your fill.

Plus it has an area for which celebs are good and bad tippers! LOL

[obxhead]

39. As a server I always asked large parties if they would want the check

split before I got a single damn thing for them. It changed the approach and set me up for success when it was time for them to go.

Not that I'm blaming the server. I've had these parties before. It's a nightmare.

[pitohui]

49. i blame the manager NOT the server (altho if i was the server i would have prob just walked out)

so...47 people come in w.out a reservation and you seat them anyway?

that's bullshit

when i was waiting tables ANYTIME people did this, in my area, it was always church groups (non tippers, baptists are the worst and should not be allowed in public)

at some point you let the manager seat the huge group, recognize the usual bunch of non tippers, and quietly take off your apron and walk out -- life is too short and i feel no guilt whatsoever about doing this a couple of times, sorry, lincoln freed the slaves

let the manager work for pennies an hour if he thinks it's funny, don't have someone who works for tips have their entire station taking over by a group that has no prior arrangement -- i mean, what's your first clue that these are clueless selfish idiots who have no business out in public?

people who have class and who have tip ALSO have enough experience w. restaurant to know if you're a group of 47 you call in advance and make reservations, plus you likely make arrangements to get your own room/table etc. -- at that time they would be informed of what the min spend/tip for a group of that size would be

in my day it was easy to get a new waitron job any time i wanted, so i was not gonna work for nothing but some managers would ALWAYS try it...

[NeedleCast]

51. It would depend on the size of the restaurant, but I don't mind the size so much

One of the places I worked in outisde of Austin, Texas, The Oasis, can seat several hundred. It is a multi-decked, multi-roomed restaurant and because of it's seating capacity, a group of 47 isn't all that unheard of. We probably would have seated them without a reservation and assigned 4-5 servers to the group. And as manager I would have told them up front that we were going to auto-grat their check.

For a smaller place though, no question that the manager probably should have said that they couldn't be seated without a reservation. From a GM standpoint though, that's a lot of potential money to send packing.

[2Design]

54. good for you = I hate group checks - I order frugally and hate having

to pay for someones soda or drink and desert - two items I rarely have in a restaurant because of markup

[Javaman]

41. Howard Johnson's as a young teen...

Me and my other moron young teen friends would go to Howard Johnson's for ice cream.

We would purposely order the sundays.

Then when the very attractive "older woman" (in her early 20's) waitress would ask if we wanted nuts?

We would reply, "no, you can hold my nuts". We were Beevis and Butthead before they were even a concept.

Later on, I would wait tables and get the same type of moronic retorts. I would remain stone faced but inside I was cracking up. :)

[BrklynLiberal]

48. The outcome would have been VERY different if they had tried that in NYC...

[marmar]

58. So true......

I remember a group trying to pull something like that once at Gonzales y Gonzales down in NoHo. I almost felt bad for them after the waitstaff got finished verbally shredding them.

[BrklynLiberal]

66. Verbal abuse would be the least of their problems in most places...

[xchrom]

63. 47 separate checks? I'd have killed myself on the spot. Nt

[cherish44]

69. Haha! Fail

You'd be amazed how creative people are with coupons

[LanternWaste]

75. Inconsiderate patrons... being defended by "righteous" posters on DU?

Inconsiderate patrons... being defended by "righteous" posters on DU? :crazy:

Guess everyone wants to play the role of the unjustified martyr close to Christmas.

[astral]

80. Group lunches from the office can be a nightmare . . .

for the office people who are left to sort out the bill. Get this. 20 or so people, everyone orders a beverage, people pass an ENVELOPE around and everybody puts 'their share' of the money in. Then the higher-income of the bunch walk out the door, back to work and the lower-income employees are counting up the money, wondering if people left 'their share' of the tip at all, and find the dollar amount SHORT by $20 or so not even counting anybody's not-left tip. So they dig into their pockets between them and come up with the money AS WELL AS a respectable tip.

I really, really, try to tell my waitress in advance that I would prefer a separate check. I can then pay my check, leave what I think is a generous tip, and not have to carry the guilt or embarrassment of anyone else at my table who jilts their waiter.

It's just stupid. So I was there, left behind in the story described above, paying for the tip and beverages and whatever of people who made more money than I did by a large percentage.

Of course I never really knew who left how much money; some people left a check for their share.