Yesterday I saw a car with 2 bumper stickers: "Who is John Galt" and "Rearden Steel"

[phantom power]

Not again.
:banghead:

[Erose999]

1. I saw one recently with "READ ATLAS SHRUGGED" spelled out in mailbox letters across the trunk...

there were Ron/Rand Paul, Gadsden Flag, W, and other right-wing nonsense stickers all over it.

[phantom power]

3. Apparently, there's going to be a movie.

(no, really)

What's interesting is, they're re-animating the whole "who is john galt" advertising campaign they used back when the novel first came out.

[Shandris]

4. I read the premise to that movie.

Now, let me say first I have no clue what AS is about as far as actual plotline, but it didn't SEEM to be something copied. However, even the review, read with any degree of credibility, shows the whole thing to be laughable at its face. The business tycoon with a heart of gold, pure motives, and her lover, who just happens to be the same. You know...multimillionaires of the kindest order. I about had to stop from laughing right there. :p

Anyway, the 'movie' is a 2-parter and looks like its going to be about as successful as that Kirk Cameron series. Still, I'll probably watch it so I can mock the people who actually believe in that shit.

[phantom power]

5. I've read all of Ayn Rand's novels. It may be even more laughable than you realize.

It's more like "Two multimillionaires who worship The Virtue Of Selfishness"

And who *also* have a heart of gold.

And have super-hot enlightened-self-interest-based lust for each other.

And all the unfairly-treated geniuses of the world go hide away to make their own libertarian paradise and leave the rest of us parasites to starve.

And huge monologues!11!1!!

[sharp_stick]

9. When I was an undergrad in University

I loved Ayn Rand, maybe it was the dope but I thought she was a genius. I wasn't afraid to tell people that either, no wonder I got so many pitiful looks.

I tried reading The Fountainhead again when I was in med school and couldn't believe that I actually used to enjoy that bloated, self-important tripe.

[Solomon]

31. I'm about in the middle of Atlas (read some of the others)

and I don't really see the "heart of gold" thing. What I see is morality and virtue are synonymous with self-interest and selfishness.

The only true morality is strictly selfishness. If everybody was selfish and stopped trying to help others the marketplace will straighten everything out for the good of all.

If you try and help people, all the industries that people rely on for jobs, etc. will be taken over by the government and destroyed.

[Curmudgeoness]

42. When you are finished, I want to know what you thought about it.

I read it about a years ago for the first time, and I can't see why anyone wants me to read it. It did not give me a good impression of their views.

Finish it and tell me about Willers. I have lots of opinion on that.

[Shandris]

34. ...it's either going to be comedy gold, or...well, there is no 'or'.

People actually take this thing seriously? For real?

People are even dumber than I thought...and I don't tend to give them much credit in the intellect department to begin with! :P

[phantom power]

36. You know, I think that there is a hypothetical good movie you could make from Atlas Shrugged.

It's got some industrial intrigue, some romance, some science fiction, etc.

I doubt that hypothetical movie will ever be made, because you'd have to make the politics of it a bit understated. Objectivists take themselves so very very seriously, and so it will be overbearing and they will focus on the wrong things.

[Nevernose]

41. Did you hear about Borat's next movie?

Sacha Baron Cohen, who played the character of Borat, will play the title character in the movie version of Saddam Hussein's autobiography. To me, that has the potential to be comedic genius -- to take something that's obviously so ridiculous but intended to be serious, and then make a subtle mockery of it seems like a good idea. Something very similar could be done with most of Rand's works.

[Taverner]

40. Think "Battlefield Earth" with longer speeches

[Amaril]

15. Yeah, but there's that really cool.........

capitalist Nirvana hidden under a force field in the desert thing at the end.

(laughing)

Worst. Book. Ever.

It - literally - took me a year to read it -- six months to get through John Galt's 47 page soliloquy alone.

Did I mention.........Worst. Book. Ever.

[phantom power]

18. reading The Monologue at one sitting can cause headaches, blackouts, temporary blindness...

seizures, stroke and rectal bleeding. The Monologue has been determined by the state of California to cause cancer in laboratory animals and Alan Greenspan, who is unfortunately wealthy enough to purchase replacement organs harvested from hobos.

[Amaril]

21. Ah, I see

Well, I (present Amaril) must have traveled back in time after reading your warning and protected future Amaril by interupting past Amaril's normally decent attention span thereby preventing severe permanent damage to present Amaril.

Either that, or the book just really sucked.

[chemp]

11. Cross between...

Battlefield Earth and Bonfires of the Vanities.
And should match their box office draw.

[southernyankeebelle]

24. This country is already gone and the democratic party helped the republicans run over us. What a

bunch of pussies the democratics are. Our future is in danger because of the religious right and the republican party marriage. In the short run liberals are losing hopefully in the long run people will finally see how they have been used. There is no sense trying to change peoples minds. They just can't see the forrest for the trees. FRIENDS WE ARE IN DEEP SHIT.

[Lindsay]

2. I take it nobody's broken it to these people

that it's FICTION?!?!?!?!?!?

[deutsey]

6. I prefer this bumper sticker:

[phantom power]

7. Strangely, I also saw that one recently.

I had great difficulty explaining it to my six-year-old.
:rofl:

[sharp_stick]

8. There was an asshole here at work

for a short time. He was dumped for incompetence before his probationary period was over. Nobody that had to work with him supported keeping him on and I mean nobody. These were some of the nicest people on the site and everyone of them supported booting this pathetic tool off the site.

He drove this rusty old land yacht with Ayn Rand and teabagger shit all over it. Who is John Galt, Read Ayn Rand, Think for yourself blah blah blah.

Funny thing was this asshole wasn't too impressed when I asked him what it was like to be a parasite on society for accepting the free State handicapped placard and sweet parking spot at work? After talking with a few people that were unlucky enough to work with this prick he only got the handicapped placard because he'd too damned lazy to walk up the hill. His wife needed it he just abused it.

[Curmudgeoness]

43. LOL, ain't that the way it always is. If it is for ME, I deserve it.

If it is for YOU, you are just abusing it. No matter what "it" is.

Hell, that guy would probably run over a paraplegic to get to his handicapped space, and bitch about him have the placard because, you know, he does have a wheelchair. I don't think that Ayn Rand would support handicapped parking, and I am sure that she would not expect able-bodied people to want any special treatment.

[buddysmellgood]

10. I just got through about half of that book and had to put it down. I thought it sucked.

[Throd]

12. "Rearden Steel"? Sounds like a good porn name.

[phantom power]

13. The accompanying logo was... interesting in that regard:

[Throd]

14. Holy Shit!

[sakabatou]

16. Trojan maaaaan...

:rofl:

[Chris_Texas]

17. As a liberal I disagree with the Ayn Rand hatred.

First, I am very much a liberal. Nuff said about that.

I am also something of a self-styled expert on Rand's Objectivism philosophy. Allow me to make a few quick points:

Rand considered CORPORATISM (not "socialism" as some might claim) the most evil form of government possible. However, Rand was not writing about either form of government. Nor writing she about a system of markets -- they serve as (arguably poor) examples to the real subject: philosophy and ethics.

Rand's writing was multilayered. The surface stories exist to illustrate some principles and carry the reader along. In this, she is no different than a teacher using a "John drove to Washington at 50mph" question in a lesson; the lesson is not about John, his destination, or his velocity, the subect is MATH. Rand wrote in the same way and with the same goal in mind.

To actually UNDERSTAND what Rand was really talking about requires months or years of study and consideration -- something few of her critics have even begun let alone completed. They devote themselves to debating the portion of her work that they understood, and in so doing miss the point all together.

In MY opinion Rand was one of the most brilliant and influential philosophers of the last century. Her major contribution was to finally illuminate the foundational role and power of ethics as a potential instrament of man's happyness and as a tool of evil when control of this code is surrendered.

Sadly, as is the case with most extremely complex subjects (for example, climate change, evolution, etc) it is all too easy to think you know what you are talking about when you actually have no idea. Such is the case with Rand's work.

[phantom power]

19. Pardon me, but the position of DU's Resident Ayn Rand Apologist is taken. By me.

On second thought, I have become tired of that position. You seem up to the task -- I hereby anoint you DU's New Resident Ayn Rand Apologist.

[Chris_Texas]

20. No no sir, have at it

[phantom power]

23. You have made me realize I'm just a ghost of my former Ayn Rand Apologizing self...

No, it's time for me to retire while I still have my dignity.

:patriot:

[phantom power]

25. All right, I will say this...

I'm pretty sure that if Ayn Rand could see the snake's nest of white collar banktsa criminals who never *made* anything in their life, crashed the world economy, sucked at the tit of a couple trillion taxpayer dollars, awarded themselves giant bonuses, then santimoniously called all of *US* the parasites and *themselves* the producers, she would rise from the grave as a zombie and individually rip their spines out of their bodies and feast on their fresh corpses.

[Curmudgeoness]

44. Well, apparently you are now the new Ayn Rand apologist.

You have earned it.

And don't mind all the critics here, I am always interested in hearing different views on issues, not matter how full of shit that they are.

[Romulox]

22. Ayn Raynd, that PARASITE (not to mention hypocrite) collected Social Security and Medicare!

How "brilliant" of her to rationalize her own "mooching" (her words!) :hi:

[walldude]

27. Ahhh... so we are all too stupid to understand the brilliance

of Ayn Rand.. I should have stayed in college so I could study the depth and brilliance of narcissism at it's finest.

That should make you many friends here... good luck and Welcome To DU... :rofl:

[ieoeja]

28. People should be good because it is the right thing to do, not because they are forced.

Not sure why you think it takes years to understand that concept.

:shrug:

[Vinnie From Indy]

30. You must also disagree with spell check as well

Rand is a fraud and her beliefs are nonsense. Here is an excerpt from a great article written at the Daily Beast about Rand.

"(Rand was) a humorless, puritanical didact who was contemptuous of, among many other things, homosexuals, American Indians (arguing that Europeans had a right to take their land because the natives did not recognize “individual rights”), Medicare, family values, beatniks, hippies, and libertarians, whom she regularly referred to as “scum,” “intellectual cranks,” and “worse than anything the New Left has proposed.”

Ayn Rand and the World She Made. By Anne C. Heller. 592 pages. Nan A. Talese. $35. She opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, was vehemently against the draft (but called those who evaded it “bums”), and “regarded the feminist movement as utterly without legitimacy.” In her novels, she glorified rape—if it was committed by the right kind of man. Heller quotes her most famous disciple and lover Nathaniel Branden as saying, “What she wanted was a man whose esteem would reduce her to a sex object.”
Oh, and for the last 30 years of her life, she was addicted to amphetamines.

So much for the small stuff. Rand was also, despite her avowed love of America, contemptuous of democracy. In an admiring 1958 letter, the economist Ludwig von Mises told Rand, “You have the courage to tell the masses what no politician told them: You are inferior, and all the improvements in your condition which you simply take for granted, you owe to the effort of men who are better than you.” And apparently women, too. In a 1936 novel, We the Living, a stand-in for Rand tells a Bolshevik with blood-chilling candor, “I loathe your ideals. I admire your methods.”

Heller and Burns have both found an even scarier Rand text, what Heller describes as “a stunningly harsh and antisocial novella called ‘The Little Street 1928,’ based on the actual trial of a notorious killer named William Hickman...” The real Hickman had strangled and dismembered an 8-year-old girl in Los Angeles, but Rand admired Hickman’s “disdainful countenance, his immense, explicit egoism.” This, Heller adds, “is practically a diagnostic description of narcissism, and also a description of Rand herself.”

There is much more in the article at:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-27/capitalisms-wicked-witch/

[Solomon]

32. Whew! Glad you did that. Apparently I'm too slow and dim-witted

to understand what I read, but I see it that way too. For a minute, I thought I'd lost my mind.

[Chris_Texas]

37. okay...quickly

Rand was often, particularly later in life, asked her opinion about a wide variety of topics. This left her with a very difficult challenge: to answer based upon the premise that the philosophical principles of Objectivism served as the foundation for the rational society she envisioned, OR answer pragmatically based on the world and ethics that exist today. In the case of the former she risked confusing those attempting to understand her philosophy, and in the later her positions would seem heartless (or worse). Further, understand that there was probably no one treated more adversarially by the powers-that-be, from both the left and right, from the corporate powers, from religions, interviews with Rand were more flat out vicious.

And all that misses the point.

It is not a question of whether or not Rand was some perfect person, or whether or not she had all the answers. The only question is what she added. That most journalists, pundits, and religious leaders fail to understand (or deliberately choose to diminish) her contributions does not lessen them.

And that is enough about that. If you want to discuss Objectivist philosophy I will try, time willing, to answer your questions-- under the assumption that you actually wish to understand. I suspect, however, that you do not, and are instead comfortable in your ignorance.

[EOTE]

38. "It is not a question of whether or not Rand was some perfect person"

Or even a decent person. Hell, even fit to be a member of society. It is not a question of whether the ideology she spewed is fit for consumption by vile animals yet alone humans. It's not even a question of whether her adherents are really capable of spitting out more than mere platitudes in her defense. Wait... where was I?

Rand added nothing but egoism and selfishness to this world. NOTHING. She and Hickman were one and the same. She saw a brutal murderer and pedophile as the ideal man. This isn't up for debate.

[Vinnie From Indy]

45. I'll be your huckleberry!

You write,

"This left her with a very difficult challenge: to answer based upon the premise that the philosophical principles of Objectivism served as the foundation for the rational society she envisioned, OR answer pragmatically based on the world and ethics that exist today."

Really? I find it odd that such a profound intellect as Rand would find something as mundane as an interview a difficult challenge. I find your offering on this point mildly amusing.

Here two of the best summations of Rand's work I have ever read. They are short, to the point and accurate enough to be called sublime.

"the entire point of Ayn Rand's works is to make the world as comfortable a place as possible for Ayn Rand. Everything she said and did was in service to that end, and it happened to appeal to a certain subset of the population given to obsessive revenge fantasies against people they think are holding them down."

"If you take the writings of Nietzsche and remove everything insightful, interesting, and funny,what's left are the writings of Ayn Rand."

Cheers!

[Chris_Texas]

46. We gonna do discussion or emotion?

I did not write that Rand found interviews difficult (she did not seem to); rather, I wrote that interviews presented a challenge because of the nature of her work -- should her answers be pragmatic and practical, or should she answer based upon the premise that man had adopted an objective code of ethics. In general she chose the later, and for good reason -- it might be terrible PR but she felt that her contribution to philosophy was more important than good press.

Rand wrote about philosophy and the foundation of ethics. In her novels, particularly Atlas Shrugged, she attempted to take an incredibly complex topic and educate the reader (and, I suspect, herself) through a series of gradual discoveries on the part of her characters. She was not writing her vision of utopia or even anything possible or practical, the story is irrelevant.

And yet, sadly, it is the STORY which most people focus on; or at best the very surface layers of anything deeper. It's as silly as forming your opinion of John Lennon's music based upon his favorite color or whether or not he loves Jesus. As ludicrous as debating the relative tastiness of animal species based on a quick reading of Animal Farm. Orwell was not writing about farming, and Rand was not writing about millionaires.

As for the review: the author does a fine job of proving he does not have the slightest idea what Rand was talking about. As it happens, I do. More, I am aware that this is an incredibly complicated subject, and one that crashes headlong into most people's preconceptions.

Discussing Rand without discussing ethics (or even understanding what an ethical code is) is as pointless as discussing tax cuts with a dolphin -- there's no common language. Nor is there usually any point. Both the right and left have their talking points. Most of the folks in this thread believe that they know what Rand was talking about based on her answers to her "favorite color" and "do you love Jesus" interview questions.

[Vinnie From Indy]

49. I'll simply leave it to the fair-minded reader to determine for themselves that Rand's

work is as fatally flawed as she was as a person. Here is a link to some critiques Objectivism and Rand. Cheers!

http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/critics/

[Arctic Dave]

51. You to imply that even though rand was a fool she still brought something to the table

that allows debate? Strange, very strange.

[kestrel91316]

50. Fawning adoration of Ayn Rand is fundamentally incompatible with

membership in DEMOCRATIC Underground. Please explain exactly why you are here and what you are trying to do.

[enuegii]

47. I'm not an expert, 'self-styled' or otherwise, on anything...

but I know how to spell both 'instrument" and 'happiness' properly.

[The_Commonist]

26. Here's my classic repsonse to Atlas Shrugged threads...

[phantom power]

29. what's the plan NOW, genius??

That never gets old

:rofl:

[upi402]

33. Paraphrasing a Greenspan quote in that regard:

"Oh shit!"

[Shandris]

35. "Atlas Shrugged..."

"..because he didn't understand what the fuck she was saying either." :P

[MrScorpio]

48. If you're doing that, then I'm going to post a link to my review of The Fountainhead

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7372673

It never gets old.

[Canuckistanian]

52. A classic. But I like this, too

"The Fountainhead in 5 seconds"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fkdBz2bds

[joeybee12]

39. Who is John Galt? A fictional character created by a mentally disturbed woman

and the hero of a really piss poor novel.