Solidarity - do you support unions or no?

[Hugabear]

I'm seeing an interesting dynamic here on DU. On the one hand, DU is almost overwhelmingly supportive of the union workers in Wisconsin. However, when it comes to the NFL players union, there's a definite split, with many DUers taking the popular "fuck them" approach.

I'm just curious, at what point do we say "to hell with solidarity"? Isn't the point of a labor union to secure a more equitable distribution portion of profits for its members? Aren't labor unions supposed to try and secure the best deals possible for their members? I know that professional athletes make tons of money - but again, isn't this primarily a result of the success of the unions? Or do we only support labor unions to a certain point before we turn our backs on them?

[Sonicwall]

1. Unions are important

Without them, we would be under slave labor, for pennies a day.

[underseasurveyor]

2. Simply, Yes!

[Aristus]

3. FUCK, YEAH!!!

:headbang:

Unions ROCK!

[BillyJack]

4. I support 'No'

You asked the question in this manner....

Who is 'no'? I dunno know 'no' :shrug:

[Bluebear]

10. Whatever.

[Shagbark Hickory]

12. ...

:rofl:
Me too. I support NO.

[BillyJack]

19. To be clear, I DO support the unions at this point 110%....

I have been paying very close attention to what has been transpiring in Madison. I was just being "happily playful" with the OP when s/he asked if we were with the *choice* 1) unions 2) no

Go Unions! Yeah Wisconsin!!!!!

(Please read about "Britain's Winter of Discontent" - I don't want to be 'lead astray' and I think there are some lessons to be learned here in our current situation, from that situation, without repeating all of the mistakes.)

[Chris_Texas]

5. Sixty years ago they were great! These days not so much

Neither of the two unions I was a member of were worth a crap. The first and largest worked tirelessly representing management, the second just did nothing at all. Later, not so long ago, I encountered a third (at a trucking company). They had a great deal for their members! Since the trucking company worked almost exclusively on government mega-jobs, and the government mandated that the company pay union scale, it was a great place to work.

But then, the UNION had nothing to do with that. Their gig was making sure that only good-old-boys and family members ever got a job there.

So, to summarize, no. Unions today pretty much suck. I love the idea, but looking to these corrupt douchebags to lead the way is a waste of time.

[Hugabear]

7. So I take it you side with Gov. Scott Walker in opposing collective barganing rights

I didn't post this OP with the intent of using it for flypaper, but if it serves that purpose... :evilgrin:

[Chris_Texas]

17. No. Don't support Walker at all (see below)

Collective bargaining is (in my opinion) a basic human right. More, he is attempting to go back on a deal that was made with these teachers.

However, with that said, don't expect me to get all excited about it either way. This is not some epic battle between poor working folks and rich fat cats. In a nation in which the largest employer is Walmart and almost half the population works retail, teachers are very well off.

Where was all this drama when democrats betrayed their supporters with Obamacare or Patriot or Iraq or GITMO or torture or TSA or TAX CUTS for billionares? I didn't see thousands of wealthy teachers taking it to the streets to fight for anyone else. But then, they had theirs already.

[magdalena]

21. "wealthy teachers" is all I needed to hear n/t

[Chris_Texas]

23. They are when compared to the rest of the country

You might not like to hear that, but it's simply the truth.

[Hugabear]

30. That and the term "Obamacare"

No true progressive would use that term, even if they opposed Obama's HCR

[Brickbat]

11. So if there was no union scale, what would the government mandate been there?

:rofl:

Sorry you had bad experiences. As for the second one that "did nothing at all" -- well, unions are made up of their members, so if the members sit around waiting for something to happen, ain't nothing going to happen.

Amazing how your experience extrapolates to all of them, too!

[Chris_Texas]

22. Irrelevant if it means jobs are restricted to insiders

I have not claimed that my experiences extrapolated to all unions. But then, I don't have to. If unions today were actually worth a fuck people would be scrambling to join rather than fighting not to, and you would have more than 15% of the population as members.

I love the idea of a real workers movement, but let's not try to pretend that a bunch of upper middle class union teachers with epic benefits is the common man. Common, all too common, is Walmart and Target -- America's largest employers. The real common man elected Obama and the democrats, but instead of healthcare, the democrats idea of reform was to stick a gun in these poor people's faces and shake them down for their insurance company buddies. Where were the "unions" then? Where were these teachers?

[roguevalley]

14. a union is the sum total of membership. If you and the rest are passive

members this happens. I know from personal experience being an officer and rep and rights person for 25 years. If you don't like it, take a step and get others to go with you. If no one acts, it will go its own ways. Unions are only as strong as their membership's participation. That's not unions fault. Its the membership.

[DinahMoeHum]

6. Speaking of the NFLPA. . .more food for thought below

at the link...

http://www.edgeofsports.com/2011-03-06-605/index.html

(snip)
...calling this "billionaires vs. millionaires" is a ridiculous act of moral equivalency where none exists. Here's the reality. You have thirty-one** of the richest people in the United States — people with generational wealth, people whose children's children will make Tucker Carlson look like Big Bill Haywood — going against a workforce with careers that last just 3.4 years. It's a workforce that draws almost exclusively from poorer socio-economic backgrounds. It's a workforce that will die more than twenty years earlier than the typical American male.

And last I checked, no one except the seriously maladjusted, go to games to eyeball the owner's box, no matter what megalomaniacs like Jerry Jones think. The players are the game, but they are being treated like pieces of equipment.
(snip)

(**the 32nd "owner" is a shareholder (1 of over 100,000 people) of the non-profit Green Bay Packers)
(My emphasis)

[Luminous Animal]

8. Yes I do. Including the players union.

[jillan]

9. I'm more curious about the other side. Do Republicans support NFL players Unions?

While wanting to break up teacher's unions?

That would be an interesting poll for ras to make.


For the record, I'm for all unions.

[Brickbat]

13. UNION YES.

I stand with the unions, because they have stood with me, for me and for my family.

[cayanne]

15. YES nt

[Arkana]

16. The players union is getting screwed, regardless of the fact that

they make much more money than anyone on the ground in Wisconsin (which is the only reason I think DU hates them).

[spanone]

18. member here

[csziggy]

20. Yes, unions improve life for workers and it rolls out to the entire workforce

Not just union members. I think workers in "right to work" states do better when employers have to compete with unionized workers in other states.

I haven't seen any hard information, but my impression is that as unions have weakened, the welfare of the regular working person has declined. We need unions back to make things better for the workers. If the workers are doing good, then the country will do better.

[apostman]

24. Coming back to the fold.

Dear DU,

I will check, but I do not recall ever posting on DU.
Generally I visited themed sites. However, I am finding it
more and more difficult to offer a dissenting opinion in
public forums. So here I am seeking like minded rational
opinions.

I crossed party lines and voted for Nixon. My father a union
hall VP, said he could respect I voted my conscience. I
admitted later I regretted my vote. He told me that I had
learned the value of my vote, if to no one else at least to
myself. I out grew an age of bigotry, yet I am still amazed at
a black president. I can recall vehement seemingly crazed
reactions to Eisenhower.

Never did any democrat consider the party platform socialist.
Instead the embrace of the majority rule and the rule of law.

 

[Rochester]

25. Solidarity forever!

[Historic NY]

26. Yes, retired public service union VP

[former9thward]

27. NFL players do not make "tons of money" because of their union.

Every NFL player has an agent. The agent negotiates their contract. To equate that with traditional unions is just ridiculous.

[LoZoccolo]

28. This is a false choice. n/t

[malaise]

29. I support all labor unions

including those of sportsmen and sportswomen.

[Generic Other]

31. Union Solidarity

Forever!

[VoteProgressive]

32. I do not think the NFL players care much about the union car workers....

I think they are only union supporters when they need the unions to back them up.

[Hugabear]

33. That's a mighty broad brush you got there, got anything to back it up?

Unlike most rich people, the vast majority of NFL players come from poor and working-class families.