The stage is being set...

[canetoad]

For a worldwide revolution.

Those of us, 50 years old and over may not see the denoúment but the seeds are being sown nevertheless. It will not have the well defined enemy of the French or American revolutions. It will not be brought about by an overriding political philosophy like the Russian or Chinese conversions to communism. It will be a revolution of it's time; the age of communications. The internet age.

Wisdom has it that there are two great revolutions in the history of humankind; the advent of stone tools and the industrial revolution of the 18th & 19th centuries. We are witness to the third great revolution that overturns all previously entrenched ways of thinking; the Digital Age.

We have been witness to the birth of the digital age for the last twenty years or so - a short time in the general scheme of life-changing advances. You would be well served to remember that which seemed impossible in 1990 is in the hands of high school students in 2010. In human terms, the digital revolution is in its infancy. We are still experimenting with the possibilities, learning the capabilities.

Out of the digital revolution grew the ability to self-publish to an audience of millions. Wikileaks, far from being an extraordinary event, was inevitable. In much the same way that august bodies were telling the populace to trust their online safety, the logic that this safety could be circumvented by any reasonably bright person with computer access became apparent.

Now the cat is out of the bag and even if Julian Assange and Wikileaks fall, the cause, the demand for openness will be taken up by thousands who see the possibilities of transparency, the embarrassment caused by clumsy manipulation of international situations.

It is no longer possible to keep the machinations of politics out of the reach of the common people.

There will be attempts, encryptions, prosecutions and penalties. The information will still get out. Governments will no longer be accountable only to themselves and their financially supportive cronies and will be forced to face the people and ask for permission to carry out their functions. As it should be.

Many at DU have embraced the advent of Wikileaks and its cohorts, many have condemned them as irrelevant or dangerous. There is only one thing we need to remember: Governments act at our behest, by our vote, at our discretion. To govern and keep secrets from the voting populace is to engage in corruption.

[RandomThoughts]

1. Will there be beer?

[canetoad]

5. There will be so much beer

You'll be swimming in it. :hi:

[babylonsister]

25. YAY!

:rofl: :hi:

[jimlup]

2. Kic and Rec!

I can see that the unrec fairies are hard at work tonight. I wish I could add a couple more recs to counter them.

[pintobean]

53. You sure jumped the gun

Don't you know that mentioning unrec is thread sabotage? I wonder how many recs this would have without your post.

rec btw

[jimlup]

54. I just noticed the standard thing that happens to threads when they hit the greatest page

They often immediately drop down to 3 recs. Seems like we have two unrec trolls that just sit and wait to unrec as threads arrive. That was my only point.

[Jackpine Radical]

79. It could be one person with 2 identities on the board.

[JNelson6563]

81. There is a coordinated tag team effort

to unrec threads and other activities here on DU. They hate DU, many of the posters here and the Admins. Not sure why they then spend much time and effort on DU but there it is.

Julie

[pintobean]

86. The admins have repeatedly said that's not true

What do you know that they don't?

[JNelson6563]

90. I know where the clubhouse is.

Have seen it with my own eyes.

The nastiest bits are now in a private section of the forum but there is still enough remaining to see what's going on.

Julie

[pintobean]

97. Oh!

You must be a double-naught spy. You probably know the password AND the secret hand shake. The OP's subject line could be the theme of this sub-thread.

[JNelson6563]

98. No, I play no role

I have been to the site, it's full of those who have only nasty stuff to say here. Some have been banned recently from DU though so the air has been a bit clearer of late.

Julie

[BeFree]

3. In short

If the government is going to wiretap us, we are going to wiretap the government.

I think it is high time we put a mic on every congressman and in every government office.

No more hiding from the people.

[canetoad]

6. Once upon a time

The thought would have been impossible. Computers and connectivity are the great levellers; no matter how much a corporation pays for a great mind, there is always another great mind in the wild, wishing to subvert the status quo.

[Raksha]

13. "Always another great mind in the wild..."

What an incredibly comforting thought!

[Voice for Peace]

52. and think of all the little kids who are growing up to be geek geniuses

to carry on the work. I do think it's unstoppable.

[hootinholler]

70. Sew them into their new NASCAR style clothes

Where whoever donated money to them has a proportional patch. A politician who accepts the majority of funding from lots of little guys will have a patterned suit, ones who have several large donors will be walking advertisements for those donors.

-Hoot

[Jackpine Radical]

80. Brilliant, Hoot.

[hootinholler]

82. I think it should be a constitutional amendment

For all offices, for appointees, they wear the suit of their sponsor. For example the Attorney General would wear the same cloth as the President. Kind of a truth in clothing amendment.

-Hoot

[brewens]

87. Is it illegal to be out in public with those directional microphones?

I'd donate to an organization who's mission was to stalk right-wing politicians, pundits, lobbyists or corporate officers with directional microphones. I suppose that would be considered the same as illegal wiretapping. Maybe not as long as they are only recorded in a public place. It'd be the same as some of the live mic screwups, only the live mic is 100 yards away.
If we could do it though, they could do it. I would suspect Democrats would get burned too but we'd get the long end of the stick on that one.

[emilyg]

4. Big k/r

[toastbutter]

7. it's already happened with crime

for the first time in history (and for perpetuity maybe), several years back the total value lost through online crimes was greater than that in the real world.

It was really a major milestone if you think about it.

[canetoad]

10. Good point

I remember reading about it. Shows how much trust is put in online safety when in reality, there is absolutely none.

[paparush]

48. Which gives govts the perfect excuse to control/kill the network.

Govs are pressuring the banks to not do business with Wikileaks. They've already applied pressure to the telcos and are always juggling legislation to regulate, restrict the internet. THIS (the global internet) can be taken away from us.

[Atman]

8. Nah. The govt. just pulls the plug and the digital revolution goes dark.

Do you the Internet is magic? It can be gone in no time, just like our cell phones. Then how will you spread the word?

[canetoad]

11. Ok, they can pull the plug on the backbones

But the infrastructure is in place. All it needs is a few dedicated souls to set up their own servers, much like the old days.

[Tesha]

46. It's not that hard to set up point-to-point radio (or laser) links.

And they can be essentially unjammable and, if very well done,
hardly even detectable. And the Internet protocols are very
well-suited for the use of many casual links; after all, it was
DARPA trying to design a network that could survive wars
that led to the Internet protocol suite.

Tesha

[MedicalAdmin]

68. See below for point to point etc, but to answer your question another way...

Teh terrists have proven that it doesn't make much investment to make any western government waste billions and trillions while dismantling themselves.

When it comes to business assets, we can "communicate" with tree spikes, gasoline, rags, bottles, etc... And they will spend themselves into the ground trying to control the damage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Side by side with this comes the end of the age of oil

which is not a minor event. It could potentially collapse this civilization.

Wiki Leaks hasn't revealed anything out of the ordinary, that any historian has known about. What it has done though is expose those who want to be exposed, to the mendacity of the classification system, to be honest. Yes, it is same shit different decade, but exactly the same shit.

Where Wiki Leaks will do a lot more "damage" will not be with the State leak... it will be the bank one. Banks don't declassify shit, like governments do. So what that will reveal will be far more serious than this one. And not saying this is not serious, but truth be told is how many people have read the wiki leaks? They are incredibly valuable to historians who don't have to wait oh... 20 years, but reality is how many people have really read them?

I admit when I read the one from Mexico, I was laughing HARD. I mean you classified what essentially historians have known to be an issue in Mexico since oh the eighteenth century? That was what the bourbon Reforms were trying to solve, and the only thing that's changed is the alphabet soup. I was like you shit me? And then we had others who are familiar with other places have the same exact reaction. So it was amusing. But for the regular citizen who actually went there, yes it is fantastic, incredible, amazing. So I guess in that sense it's changed a few things. And no, I cannot wait for the bank leak... that will be all kinds of fun.

[canetoad]

14. Admittedly, I haven't read every one either

Only the few concerning Australia and pertinent world events. The rest, I get a précis from the Guardian.

Regarding bank leaks. I believe that ultimately there will be a leak or two that proves collusion between a state and a bank. Whether it be blatant protection or just turning a blind eye to unhealthy practices. If it were only the banks, we could all just vote with out feet; they are only companies. It is the intertwined policies, practices and dependencies between banks and politicians that make me nervous.

I agree that there was little that a student of history, international relations and politics could not have gleaned from the cables released so far. The significance is that the PROCESS is now being made transparent to the people on the street. It's given them cause to think about matters that never entered their heads previously.

[ooglymoogly]

20. Surely you must have seen the clip of the military helicopter

shooting innocent folks in the streets of Baghdad below, like rats in the desert; for sport; laughing and boasting while they did it, killing 9 innocent people a baby. Two of those shot were Reuters newsmen. Do you think that is not a game changer; To say nothing of how the world is reacting and looking at this country with a jaundiced eye. That too was Wiki leaks. And there is much more and just as damning. It is a look into the psychotic minds of the folks who have taken over this country that they seriously do not want exposed.

[WinkyDink]

35. But what has Obama said about those war-crimes? Or HRC? Biden? Anybody??

Let us all praise and celebrate the wealth of Steven Jobs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Same shit, different decade (Image heavy)

?w=475&h=318





I think this makes the point clear. To those of us who have been paying attention...

[ooglymoogly]

72. Yes, that is my point...That war is down the memory hole. It was those images and there were more

The Buddhist monks burning themselves in the streets protesting the war. But you are right just another bogus war, down the memory hole. The war machine just waits after its last debacle, for the short memory of the public to forget and is ripe for another bogus war and begin the mayhem all over again; until the images of the horror start hitting home and the public finally rebels.

Until we face up to the fact that the powers that be, are psychotic fascists, our civilization is doomed to become or already has become a banana republic ruled by lunatic despots.

[JNelson6563]

83. There are two factions demanding nothing less

These pics you post are most relevant. There are the chickenhawks who clamor for war and then there are those who clamor for revolution. Oh sure, the OP in this case talks of revolution in digital form but make no mistake, the sort of revolution you and many others long for and promote will be as bloody or worse than any war we've known.

Julie

[PhillySane]

66. As far as I'm concerned

the collusion already existed, we don't need a leak to prove it. Mr. Paulson wasn't trying to save the free world, he was trying to save Goldman Sachs.

[WinkyDink]

33. People think in terms of gasoline/cars, but when food isn't delivered and hospitals go dark,...

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Power plants...

Yep, It will worst case collapse our civilization... like the Maya.

[cali]

12. the so-called common people largely aren't interested in information that in any way challenges

their preconceptions. they don't care about wikileaks. they're too busy tuning into the next season of American idol, or rushing off to some sale of gadgets or watching the big game.

I don't think wikileaks is irrelevant, but I don't think it's the revolution you believe it is.

[canetoad]

16. Yep. Fox watchers

or here in Oz, Herald-Sun readers and 'Today-Tonight' fans will be cursing all the space and airtime given to this long, white-haired bastard and his uppity theories (bastard rapist, HIV scum that he is).

I didn't say it would be quick, just that the seeds have been sown.

[cui bono]

93. Unfortunately it's not just fox watchers.

Many smart people don't care to be informed about what they consider "politics" because it's all become so crazy. Or they just have an aversion to it in general. Or they are informed and because they sense the system is rigged or too far gone they have tuned out and given up. I tune out on occasion too. Especially now that the Democratic "leadership" has taken this country farther to the right and is fucking up at every turn. This tax "compromise" was pathetic. I'm really tired of the give aways to the corporations and the filthy rich.

[StarsInHerHair]

23. those so-called common people voted for Obama because they KNEW we

needed REAL change and they got scammed. There are polls showing people KNOW this country is going into the wood-chipper, they just don't know what they can do to turn things around. The common people follow soap operas-those are highly complex story lines, it's just that the Scrooge Media (giving the view from the top class) tells them lies and plays on their emotions. And for whatever reasons rich "lefties" have chosen not to unite and create comparable networks.

[tomp]

40. that was the risk of installing obama.

the powers that be knew neither he nor the democratic party would not change anything significant.

but the loss of hope for real change must be felt. people will have their eyes opened, maybe, just a little bit more.

[JNelson6563]

85. Oh geez, where to begin?

those so-called common people voted for Obama because they KNEW we needed REAL change and they got scammed.

Really? There has been a great deal of change but they are in the existing system. What sort of change did you think you were voting for? Bloody revolution in the streets? All the wealthy rounded up, deprived of their wealth as it is thrown to the poor out on the streets from trucks? I mean, wtf were you expecting?


There are polls showing people KNOW this country is going into the wood-chipper, they just don't know what they can do to turn things around.

Got any links to these polls?


The common people follow soap operas-those are highly complex story lines,


Yes, the little people, the commoners, are brighter than we appear. Oy.


it's just that the Scrooge Media (giving the view from the top class) tells them lies and plays on their emotions.

The "scrooge media"?? The "top class"??? If we're speaking plainly let's be accurate, it's the "corporate media" and the "corporate class".

And for whatever reasons rich "lefties" have chosen not to unite and create comparable networks.

Sadly, and to the disadvantage of many throughout history, current times and the future, those on the left are so fucking busy with their own ONE PET ISSUE they can step over dying babies and not notice/care. Fuck it, let it all fall to pot unless my precious issue is set right. Sometimes I believe the left has some characters that are far more selfish than any on the right.

Julie

[cui bono]

92. No, there has not been change.

Cite any significant change that has happened. Same old shit is happening under a new regime. Some of it has been increased. Still spying on American citizens, Gitmo still open, still favoring big business at every turn, still capitulating to the corporatists without even fighting for the working people. And then telling the left to stfu. No change at all.

Oh wait, sorry, you're right, there has been some change. The current administration has shifted the Democratic Party and the debate even further to the right. Great. Just what we needed.

[sendero]

29. For now...

.. I agree with you. But when enough people cannot EAT, things will change. Nothing focuses the mind quite like losing your security of food and shelter and millions have and millions more, many who have no clue it's coming, are going to also.

[Tesha]

45. Revolutions don't occur because majorities are behind them.

They occur because *ENOUGH* are behind them. And It is entirely
within the realm of possibility that the Internet and/or Wikileaks
may play a significant part in some upcoming revolutions.

Tesha

[gateley]

64. I like what you say but I'm reminded of the tea baggers who actually

were able to make some change (TP candidates, for e.g.) as long as the $$$ was behind them. After they were discarded we barely hear a peep, although the 'serious' ones are still fighting their fight (I think those were on board because they hate the black guy in the WH are awaiting instructions on what to do/whom to hate next).

But in theory I agree, it doesn't take everyone to get on board in order to get the thing started.

[JNelson6563]

84. There are also many busy trying to survive

Lots of them.

[Speck Tater]

15. Information transmission requires energy.

Energy in sufficient quantity depends on fossil fuels. (No, I'm sorry, but solar and wind CANNOT replace the quantity of energy provided by fossil fuels that will be lost over the next few decades).

So as demand for energy outstrips supplies, the cost of energy will climb into the stratosphere. Soon the average person will not be able to afford enough energy to power their connection to the Internet, so the "digital revolution" will just peter out due to insufficient energy to deliver the Internet to the would-be revolutionaries. The Internet will be a playground for the wealthy only.

[canetoad]

17. That's a bloody interesting point

I had given thought to the sustainability of digital communication, mainly in terms of how taken for granted it is.

You would remember the early 90s, when we had dial-up, hard drives measured in megabytes. We thought carefully about how we used our resources. Maybe it will come to that again.

I'm convinced that a great percentage of power consumption comes from charging batteries and some long term problems are evolving from the number of batteries going into landwaste.

For internet - I think the cat is out of the bag now. Maybe people have to go back to 1 computer, 1 screen, no usb coffee cups, that kind of crap. That doesn't take much power, not when compared with stuff like mall lighting, aluminium production, air conditioning. I think your point is valid but don't believe it will ever really figure into the impact of the internet.

[Speck Tater]

47. Granted, the Internet is not the largest user of power...

... But what I had in mind is the fact that our electric power delivery infrastructure is crumbling, energy costs are going up, energy demand is going up, and when the system is over-taxed the first symptom is rolling blackouts, load shedding, and spot power outages. As the situation gets worse, the reliability of the grid gets worse and worse. Eventually we have a situation where the average consumer only gets a few hours of electricity a day. How much of that daily allotment will be squandered on surfing the web?

Here are some of the current energy shortages: http://www.energyshortage.org/

And the situation will continue to get worse, and more widespread. Eventually only the rich will be able to afford backup generators to supply them with 24/7 electricity. We will increasingly experience situations like the current situation in many parts of India:

As the winter approaches fast, breakdown of transmission and distribution system, frequent power cuts, unusual load- shedding and extended curtailments in power supply welcome freezing temperatures in valley. And the lacuna is that despite the state been reeling under darkness, the people at the helm of affairs always respond with one sentence “government is committed to provide uninterrupted power supply”.

"Where is the power? We have not seen it. We get it hardly for couple of hours a day, and that too is useless, the voltage is so low that we can only see the filaments of the bulbs heating up a little. No question of emitting light." A resident of Chanpora of Srinagar said.

http://www.energyshortage.org/taxonomy/term/9

[WinkyDink]

36. THIS? Is our legacy of telling the world to be more like us...so now CHINA IS.

[paparush]

49. It's not energy as much as it is the fact that the backbones are owned by giant corporations

Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, Quest, Charter, et al.

All of whom are subject to govt influence and control (ie - Lieberman). Look at what happened to Wikileaks (PayPal, Mastercard, Amazon, etc) all bailed under govt pressure.

There are bills floating through Congress all the time to restrict, control, "Kill switch" the internet.

The govt knows the power the global internet gives the prols. They know it very well and are laying the groundwork to kill it.

[cui bono]

94. I think it's the other way around. It's our govt that bows to the pressure

of the giant corporations.

Is that why the financial companies shut down Wikileaks payment processing and website or was it because they have the goods on B of A? I hadn't heard anything about govt pressure but I've not been following that closely lately. I suspect though that even if Amazon or PayPal got govt pressure then the govt was pressured by B of A.

[paparush]

100. You didn't hear about Lieberman contacting Amazon and getting them to drop Wikileaks?

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-lieberman-got-amazon-to-drop-wikileaks-2010-12

[Myrina]

18. ... its so much more important to vote for American Idol ...

... than it is to get involved in any kind of cyber-revolution/intelligence gathering/activism that, unfortunately, the revolution you are calling for will never happen.

We have met the enemy and he is us. Fat, lazy & dumbed-down to a third grade level, but us nonetheless.

[canetoad]

19. I think you underestimate your countryfolk

Yes, you do have a small and dangerous contingent of ultra right-wing citizens. They could inflict a lot of damage if they were provoked enough.

I believe there are more than enough decent, ordinary, everyday Americans who will slowly turn the tide. The vocal minority should never have been given the power or prominence that it has. They are violent, bigoted and unreasonable. Surely that is not the view you have of the majority of your fellow Americans?

Edit: to qualify

[cdsilv]

21. The revolution will not be televised, it will be streamed.....n/t

[catzies]

75. ....until the grid goes down. Then what? n/t

[cui bono]

95. Exactly. And it will. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

69. In my experience they are not a minority.

My interactions definitely show that most Americans are exactly like the teabaggers. The vast majority are not here on du and hate anyone who holds these views. As an ideal, I think the USA is done. It just remains to be seen how it will die and howany people it will kill in it's passing.

[WinkyDink]

37. At least TRY to be original with your Whipping Boy. Maybe YOUR OWN favorite TV show?

[Myrina]

99. MIAOW

:eyes: My favorite show isn't one that features 'contestants' that can be voted off.

[Kurovski]

22. Kick. (nt)

[Le Taz Hot]

24. You lost me after your first sentence.

If you want to turn stupid at 50, that's your choice. I find that most of us over 50 are perfectly capable of:

1) Recognizing the seeds of a revolution (we, well, maybe not you, lived through a several already) and
2) using a computer and being part of the digital age (hint: this is me using a compute).

Unrec. for ageism.

[handmade34]

28. I believe the post

maintained that those of us over 50 would not see the final events or conclusion to the upcoming revolution... there is no ageism here, just an observation. Many of us over 50 are more than happy (and capable) to be part of this...

[DemReadingDU]

34. That is how I see it

I am early 60s. While I am beginning to see things devolve, it will be my toddler grandbabies who will live thru it all, if they survive.

[handmade34]

39. agree

I am just about 60 and plan on going down fighting... for my kids, grandkids and yours :toast:

[DemReadingDU]

41. same here

Spouse and I have already begun the fight in our village. While some people have come to support us, we have found many more who haven't a clue what is going on.

[sirthomas66]

51. That's the same trouble I am having. Here is the reason. Many of us

on this board follow stuff, everyday political events and decisions, and watch the pain that they cause. The average person doesn't do that; they figure things are going along as they should. I tell my neighbor, who is around fifty, that Obama has started on the end of social security. She says simply: I know. Then adds something about how they lost some money on Maddoff too. People are simply crooked, she adds. All this without any evidence of rage. I think it may be a certain feeling of impotence against such things. I don't know, but it is maddening. I have an easier time with people from mid-western states than here in California.

[sirthomas66]

50. Copy that. I do not think it will be as gentle as the OP seems to

imply. I think it will be bloody and many of us will lose our lives. But we will win--

[TBF]

57. Unrec for Ageism? Really?

He's right you know. Even 20 years ago I knew kids who could hack into sites pretty easily - there are always going to be a contingent who do that (and it's not likely to be the wealthy - it's likely to be some kid with spare time on his/her hands who has managed to build a machine themselves). I do think it changes everything. But I don't expect the rich to take it laying down - as with Julian Assagne they will fight back to protect their assets. Historically they always have.

[gateley]

67. You're missing out on some good thought-provoking stuff if you're

just stopping because you believe you were insulted.

I'm almost 60 (58 in March) and I'm not sure I'll be alive to see the wave. We're coming back from a long sleep and it may take more years to achieve than years I have remaining on this planet.

Seriously, I didn't see any ageism there, are you being too sensitive?

and hint: I believe you meant to say "this is me using a computeR". The eyes are the first to go. :7

[IDemo]

26. "Governments act at our behest".

Not so much, if you've been paying attention. The only behestments our government pays attention to are those from the corporate masters. They won't be 'forced to face the people' over their transgressions in any meaningful manner. And by making suitable examples of Manning and Assange, they will make it perfectly clear what to expect for outing them on matters large or small (makes no difference - it's that outing part that enrages them, more than the diplomatic impacts).

53 here. :)

[malaise]

27. Excellent post

Rec

[GeorgeGist]

30. But you don't see ...

that delusion is created behind the scenes.

[handmade34]

31. money and power are the drivers

"...modern capitalism originated in the force and fraud which drove the English workers off the land into the factories created by the Industrial Revolution..., ...as of earlier stages of capitalism, is redistribution of income away from labor, toward property..., ...capitalism no longer delivers the rising living standardswhich in time past served as its major justification..."

from Capitalism for Beginners, Lekachman

[WinkyDink]

32. And so the rush to impoverish us all is on, as is the race to control the Internet.

Not to mention the odd increase in calls to decriminalize marijuana (not that I don't want this, but Pat Robertson?!).

[DemReadingDU]

38. I worry there could be something

like an Ipatriot act that could be implemented that could shut down the internets, because of 'terrorists'.

edit for spelling

[BlueJac]

42. Will it be televised?

K&R good post

[Paper Roses]

43. Our future brings me frightening thoughts. I won't live to see it. but

my children and grandchildren will. I am frightened on their behalf.

Of all my struggles, and there have been many, I fear none will compare to what will be coming.

[Better Believe It]

44. "Governments act at our behest, by our vote" When did that happen? I missed that!

:)

[sulphurdunn]

55. I hope I'm wrong about this,

but I think the cable television model is the future of internet access unless the FCC suddenly decides to serve the interests of public users rather than corporate providers, a very unlikely proposition.

[RegieRocker]

56. I try to analyze why this is happening now and I am not

so sure as to why. I have always been a proponent of legalizing all drugs and to focus on providing mental help instead of imprisonment.
I know first hand that alcohol is a violent drug. That the reason alcohol is preferred by our government and the ones in control is simple. Alcohol gets people riled up and pot does not. A perfect drug for creating citizens that want to go to war. So I ask myself why is the direction to legalizing pot occurring now. I want it legalized, don't get me wrong, it should be. I can't help buto wonder if this isn't some kind of pacification thing in their minds.

[bvar22]

58. The Next Step:

The Working Class & The Poor realize WE have more in common with each other than we have with the ruling elites of BOTH Political Parties.
THEN, we vote these Ownership Class crooks OUT of office.

The Working Class & The Poor in Latin America have given us the blueprint for a near bloodless revolution.

VIVA Democracy!!!
I pray we get some here soon!

[RegieRocker]

61. Here here!

[DeadEyeDyck]

59. K & R

[Jeffersons Ghost]

60. What kind of "secrets" do you mean?

[Historic NY]

62. If the revolution is on the internet, does it mean its true....

if you believe a fraction of whats posted on the tubes it might have a grain of truth.

[Fearless]

76. It is a looking glass for the heart. What is here will be real if not rectified.

[Crunchy Frog]

71. You left out one of the biggie past revolutions.

The Neolithic agrarian revolution. You know, the one that brought permanent settlements, cities and states and governments, trade and commerce, writing and the wheel. All that interim stuff that goes between the flint knife and the factory assembly line.

I just hate historical inaccuracy.

[Flubadubya]

73. Must be just the difference between a Cane Toad and a Cruncy Frog...

:evilgrin:

[truedelphi]

74. It's not BEING SET UP - the battles have raged on for years.

Most of us don't know that south of the border, there are places that have had three and even four revolutions with major regime changes in a matter of a single year!

But if and or when a revolution shows up here, it could be fairly awful.

We are now in the same situation that the people of France found themselves way back in the 1780's - where the nobility had splurged on a massive party for itself, that entailed blowing more than two and a half times the nation's GDP in a mere decade.

Exactly what has happened here, with the thirteen to thirty TRILLION bucks that has slipped from the Bernanke and Geithner consortium over to the Biggest Banking Players. Except with us,it hasn't taken a decade. but twenty four months.

[DemReadingDU]

77. Eventually at some point

the elites will have gotten everything they can out of us, then kaboom, the global financial Ponzi implodes, and we will be left to fend for ourselves. Or something like that.
:shrug:

[Smashcut]

78. You lost me at "digital age." There is a revolution coming, but that isn't it.

The truth is, the revolution that is coming will be about the same thing revolutions have always been about. It will be about bread and butter, not ones and zeros.

As much as we'd like to say that the computer age, technology, has changed the balance of power, it simply isn't true. Yes, the internet has made information flow more democratic. That is true, and Wikileaks is an excellent example of that. However, I believe there is little that the people would discover about their governments that would shock them out of their comfort zone enough to revolt. Not as long as a certain level of material comfort is maintained for a large enough proportion of the population. Ultimately, what the internet has done is to produce another avenue for commerce, another means by which large entities can harness the productive capacity of the many for the benefit of the few. It might have added a few new players to the mix - but really, it hasn't changed the underlying power structure at all.

Perhaps it is because I am younger than you are (judging from the first sentence of your post) that I take this power of technology for granted. Young people are facing the same problems of past generations - getting jobs, escaping a crushing debt load, putting food on the table - and aside from a lucky few, the internet has not solved those problems. Things are getting worse. The main threat to stability of the current social and economic regime is the increasing sense that most people are indentured servants to the power elite. Once it becomes impossible for a large enough number of people to feed themselves, put gas in their cars, and generally lead civilized and dignified lives, that is when people will be in the streets (literally). The internet might play a role in coordinating the revolt, but it will not be the underlying cause.

What Wikileaks may succeed in doing is shifting some of the players on the board. The leadership may change, but the game will remain the same. In fact, the biggest shakeup will come from corporate information being revealed, but even this I believe will not make a huge dent. Big banks may fall, but other banks will pick up the pieces and carry on where their predecessors left off, much as we've already seen. Only when the people cannot satisfy their basic needs - food, shelter, warmth - will there be a true revolution. If the disparity in wealth and the exploitive nature of our economy (in which the internet is as much a tool of the elite as anything else) do not improve, that revolution will come sooner rather than later.

Let us not be deluded by the smokescreen of technological advancement. There is nothing about this era that is fundamentally different from previous ones, other than that the greed of the few is now eating the many alive, and it cannot last much longer.

[tavalon]

88. Your last sentence says it all

[Quantess]

89. Look how many views this thread has!

That's a sure sign one of those obsessed-stalker-loser sites is reposting this thread on their site.

[me b zola]

91. I have mentally liberated myself

and am ready to move forward. Lean forward? Ha! I'm quite ready to leap forward!

[maryf]

96. "To govern and keep secrets from the voting populace

is to engage in corruption." Hear, hear! (the non-voting populace too). K&R