The Civil War is not only remembered in the south

[SwampG8r]

http://www.civilwarhome.com/reenact.htm
this is a list of civil war societies
most are re enactors
they are from all over america
north south east and west
they represent regiments that actually fought from the actual home of the regiment
they represent history buffs trying to understand the single most defining moment in american history to date
they represent people reaching through time to see the world of their ancestors
i find it hurtful when any civil war discussion here turns to a south bash
we lost ...we know it
we are slow down here but not 150 years slow
someone tell me how glory is found in the re enactment of a defeat?
someone tell me about the monument to the new york regiments that fought the battle of lookout mountain?...on lookout mountain?
is it only in the re enactment of the confederate troops that offense is found?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. My dear SwampG8r!

Bashing the south is inappropriate...

Re enacting the Civil War can be very enlightening. It is a useful exercise to know and understand our history...

Recommended...

[SwampG8r]

2. one trip to the peace memorial in tenn

puts it in a better persspective
built by new yorkers with tenn stone
topped with a trooper from each side embracing in peace
many of the tenn troops said they had never seen braver men than the ny regiments coming up the side of that mountain
its a shame we denigrate the courage of both sides

[DefenseLawyer]

31. You can be very courageous and still be very wrong

Trying to frame our understanding of the Civil War as a question of "Who was more courageous?" is pretty pointless, in my opinion.

[Supersedeas]

35. as if there are no individual acts of courage, because all frames have to be macro/global to satisfy

a point....courage has always been measured individually...whether it is a farmer trying to protect the burning of his crops or Joe Citizen trying to obstruct the leveling of a city or a string of towns near where he grew up. There are large scale, big picture winners and losers on both sides of war, but there also cowards, tyrants, and heros individually scatter and interpersed betwixt and between bot sides. It is sometimes a shape that some people can't see the details of a picture because they are so focus on the frame.

[MrModerate]

3. It's true that people bash reenactors as if they were the reincarnation of Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Which is nonsense. One thing that characterized the Civil War on both sides was courage. Along with devotion to duty, strategic and tactical excellence, sacrifice, suffering, and camaraderie. (And of course cowardice, dereliction of duty, incompetence on a stunning scale, shirking, featherbedding, war profiteering, etc., etc., etc.)

I've never been a serious reenactor myself, although I have attended a few staged battles and have reenactors (blue and grey) among my friends. None of the people I've met in the reenactment community suggest that it would have been better had the Confederacy prevailed, or that slavery, or the stranglehold the propertied had on the working man (north and south), or marching toward cannons loaded with case shot were good ideas.

It comes down to comradeship. Which doesn't really need defense from naysayers.

[Aristus]

18. I don't think anyone disputes the notion that the Southerners fought with great courage.

At issue is the fact that they fought and died for a cause unworthy of that bravery.

That's all.

[MrModerate]

22. There's a quote along those lines (Lincoln was it?) that I've been trying to remember . . .

And I think the issue is more complicated, and touches on the question of why modern-day reenactors do so. Which, IMO, has nothing to do with the merits of the Confederate cause.

However, "the South shall rise again" nonsense has never fully gone away, and the recent "secession galas" are quite disturbing in how they celebrate not the courage, but the totally discredited notion that conflict over states' rights was the primary driver of the civil war when it was clearly caused by a disagreement over whether the states had the rights to make the ownership of people by people legal. Add in a dollop of teabaggery, and it makes the southern United States appear to be retrogressing even more.

With the new criminal governor in Florida, things are likely to get even shittier pretty quickly.

[Staph]

4. I am a Civil War re-enactor.

My home state, West Virginia, is a product of the Civil War. We are the former Virginians who refused to leave the Union, when the eastern and southern parts of the state voted to secede.

Many of those re-enactors that I know do so for the history of our state, to remember and celebrate who we are and how we came to be.

In the next five years, we will be reliving the battles and our history, 150 years later. In June of 2011, we will be recreating the first land battle of the war, in Philippi, as it really happened. Soldiers in civilian clothes, for many of the local militias did not yet have uniforms, fighting with whatever weapons the families owned, for the armies' weapons had not been universally issued.

A Confederate soldier named James Hanger lost his leg in that battle. He was so unhappy with the fit of his peg-leg that he developed his own artificial leg, and went on to found J.E. Hanger Inc., which still makes prosthetics to this day.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. What a great bit of history...

And I love the story about the soldier and his prosthetic leg. I think it's wonderful that his company is still making prosthetics.


BTW, I greatly admire your sigline...I just copied it into one of my blank books, where I keep such quotes. Yours affirms how I view my life.

Thank you.

[hlthe2b]

8. I agree (on both).... Twain never ceases to amaze me...

with his wit, intellect, and perceptiveness.

[hlthe2b]

5. Historians say over 60,000 books have been published on the civil war...

Yet, many Americans are amazingly ignorant on the basics and many more should read more about it so that it might not happen again.

I just saw this article on Salon.com, where a civil war historian has recommended the top 12 (single volume, non-fiction) books on the civil war and is recommending that one be read each month in 2011, in commemoration of the 150th anniversary. Seems like a good thing to do for those that have the time... I will try to read at least one on the list (or the Shelby Foote 3-volume set, that is not).

The top 12 Civil War books ever written
By Glenn W. LaFantasie

http://www.salon.com/books/history/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/12/26/civil_war_books_2011

[WCGreen]

6. I read the Team of Rivals and that was a comprehensive book

about the Lincoln administration and how it dealt with the crisis and the political ramifications.

[hlthe2b]

9. Oh, yes... Doris Kearns Goodwin

I've been meaning to read that as well.... Didn't Obama supposedly read it right after the election?

[TuxedoKat]

25. Thanks for posting this

I think I will try and do this myself. Didn't realize that it was the 150th anniversary next year.

[carolinayellowdog]

10. Some Southerners honor their Unionist ancestors, too

"The South" was hardly unanimous in support of the Confederacy. All but one of my Civil War vet ancestors were from North Carolina-- and all but one of them fought for the Union. This is not uncommon in large areas of the former Confederacy, mountainous and coastal regions especially.

[TNDemo]

11. Yep.

Tennessee first sided with the union then ultimately changed, however, East TN was staunchly union.

[Babel_17]

12. Nothing wrong with re-enacting

I think the problem is that some people also want to rewrite history and then that ties into current politics.

As the vice president of the confederacy said, it was about slavery.

So when you have some reenactors with confederate flags on their vehicles and cheering when local politicians talk of a second secession, then some of us become concerned.

People are entitled to appreciate history.

But if they want to rewrite history to match a fanciful viewpoint they can expect derision.

Obviously the Civil War wasn't fought by villains vs. heroes.

But there were real issues on the line and our current government is based on the outcome.

There's a movement to undo our social safety net and other progressive policies and some unscrupulous people are trying to tie that issue into the politics and loyalties of the 19th century.

[RegieRocker]

15. Bullseye!!!

Does the OP know this? I know what the OP is saying and have nothing against the South. Only the people that call Lincoln " stinkin Lincoln " and hate the north. Are you aware of these people OP?

[SwampG8r]

19. i do. i am and this addresses them as well

[Tsiyu]

13. It used to bother me a great deal

because it seemed like an obsession with a time that was never going to return. But, like those who are fascinated with Custer, Civil War Reenactors come from all walks of life.
And they enjoy history as a way to connect with the past.

For me, these places in Tennessee and North Georgia have a longer historical significance. For thousands of years, people lived in these mountains and valleys; the Civil War was a flash in the pan compared to the history that was already here before Lookout Mountain was even called such. To me Chikamauga means Dragging Canoe, and blood spilled 70 years before.

Just wish we - as in all of us - could put our energies to the future more than to the past....

[RegieRocker]

20. Well said.

[Dappleganger]

14. I lost relatives on both sides...

the war tore entire families apart. That is what we need to not ever forget.

[obxhead]

16. I don't understand the flagrant bashing of the south here

and why it is tolerated by the DU admin.

If I posted a bigoted remark about any race it would be deleted. Posts of the same kind about the south and the people of the south are allowed to stand on this site though. I see it as a huge double standard here on DU.

[Recovered Repug]

26. Simple. The South is primarily Red.

[K8-EEE]

27. +1

[madinmaryland]

17. I think there are two different things going on...

First are the re-enactments and secondly there are the celebrations of things like the secession of the South. I in no way equate those two things. One is trying to understand history, the other is the celebration of a treasonous act.

[JPZenger]

38. Read the above post

The above post says it all. I haven't heard anyone attack re-enactors. They are welcome to their hobby and personal interests. It is the people who claim false rationale for the war, who try to coverup decades of horrible treatment of African American people (including by many northerners) before and after the war, and who romanticize the splitting apart of the country.

What nation killed more American troops than any other?

Answer: the Confederacy.

[lunatica]

21. Watching Ken Burns' Civil War should be mandatory in all US High Schools

http://www.pbs.org/civilwar/

[MellowDem]

23. "We lost it"...

It always amuses me how many in the South still refer to themselves as if they were Confederates or somehow an ethnic group or something. It's been 150 years. You didn't lose anything. Many Southerners anymore have ancestors that came to the US after the Civil War, or are recently transplanted from other areas of the US, or are foreign immigrants. The South has changed and will continue to change. It's nothing like it was back in the Civil War. The idea of "Southerner" being some sort of ethnicity or cultural group is as made up now as it was back then. Many current Southerners have no ancestors from those years from the South. The South is incredibly diverse, complex, and complicated, rich with American history, and there is no "we" about it, it is an incredible mix and mishmash of the world.

Southerners are Americans, and while I fully agree with your point, the way you present it unfortunately lends to certain steryotypes. You don't see other people from other regions of the country referring to themselves as a seperate group, much less from some long gone Civil War.

If anything, "you" won, since you don't agree with the Confederate principles.

[fishbulb703]

24. That is just wrong.

Midwesterners, Californians, UPers, New Yorkers, Texans all identify the a cultural group that has as its main identification a region of the country.

[MellowDem]

28. Not generally...

I rarely hear New Yorkers referring to how "they" won the Civil War. The US won against the Confederacy. That war was 7 generations ago, and to pretend that one's ancestors continue the battle to this day makes no sense. Most other regions of the country refer to it as a historical event, not a present day one, where "they" or "we" won or lost it.

Sure, people refer to regions of the country generally, but rarely as much as the South, or to the same extent, as if they are a truly seperate culture or ethnicity.

Just look at a map of how Americans refer to themselves ethnically on the Census.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg

The "American" ethnicity is mostly seen in the Confederate South, outside of cities, and is a "made up" ethnicity, since "American" doesn't share much more in culture and history than the Confederacy by the looks of it.

[GoCubsGo]

33. Thanks for posting the link to that map.

Those red/blue/purple maps they always publish after presidential elections always have this big swath of blue running through the middle of the South. I'm not surprised to see that they directly coincide with the areas where the largest ancestry group is African-American.

I find it really interesting that all those people in the former Confederate South are now referring to themselves as "American". And, having lived down here for 25 years, it's even more interesting (and ironic) to me that these very people seem to be the ones who most get caught up in all of the fanatical pseudo-patriotic flag-waving jingoism. On one hand, they revere the Confederacy, and on the other hand, anyone who doesn't wear a flag pin and love "God Bless America" is a "godless, America-hating commie". Make up your minds, people. Do you love America or do you love the Confederacy? Can't have it both ways.

[SwampG8r]

32. i will explain how people dont seperate themselves to

my hoosier and buckeye friends

[tigereye]

29. it was very moving to see all the flowers on the Lee

monument at Gettysburg this past summer. The NY monument there was surprisingly large and castle-like.


My favorite was the one hidden in the woods at Little Round Top where Chamberlain of the 20th Maine made his great maneuvers. One of the coolest things about The Killer Angels is the wonderful complexity and humanity we see in the generals and soldiers of both sides.


:patriot:

[mix]

30. Re re-enacting and glorifying the South's defeat,

Serbian nationalists also place the defeat by the Ottomans in 1389 at the heart of their historical identity.

Defeat binds together the losing community or group in opposition to their historical and perceived enemies.

The Nazis exploited and glorified Germany's defeat in WWI as well.

[Odin2005]

34. I have a friend, who is in the army, who loves reading about the Civil War.

He has all the books of Shelby Foote's massive work on the war. He often points out the American Civil War as the first modern war and the most deadly Western conflict before WW1.

IMO the American Civil War can be compared to the European wars of the same period that unified Germany and Italy, it turned a federation of separate polities into a unified nation-state.

[baldguy]

36. The Civil War and the CSA are part of our history & *SHOULD* be remembered.

But, we should be remembering WHY it happened also.

My problem with Confederate apologists is that they take the most evil & barbaric aspects of our shared history and try to make them into virtues to be emulated.

[mix]

37. I live near Glorietta Battlefield in NM, the most western battle in the Civil War.

Though it was relatively small compared to the eastern battles, if the Confederates had won and gone on to capture the Colorado gold mines and ports of California, the war might have turned out differently.

The Glorietta Battlefield and its two monuments attract many sympathizers of the slave-owning South who leave behind Confederate flags and notes warning that the South shall rise again. It is disgusting, frankly, that this defeat is still mythologized and deemed sacred.

[JPZenger]

39. Plenty of Blame to Go Around

Yes, there are some Southern rightwingnuts who are trying to whitewash their history. However, the Northerners also do the same thing.

There was slavery in many northern states. The northern states abolished it earlier, partly because the economics of slavery were less important.

Many slave ships were owned and run by northerners.

New Jersey still had slaves during the Civil War. Delaware did not abolish slavery until after a Constitutional Amendment passed ending slavery - which was well after the war ended. The Union tolerated the presence of slave states within their borders. The Emmancipation Proclamation did not apply within those Union states. There were horrible race riots in New York City during the Civil War.

Northern cities have a tradition of being more racially segregated than Southern cities. And let us not forget the severe violence that occurred in Boston when there was court-ordered desegregation of schools in the 1970s.

[whogasa736]

40. Something to Consider

The American people, North and South, went into the war as citizens of their respective states, they came out as subjects … what they thus lost they have never got back. – H.L. Mencken

[baldguy]

41. "The war made the United States an *is*."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBghmvRMluY