Any comments about the rise of what appears to be the Fourth Reich in Wisconsin?

[bobthedrummer]

I'd like to hear your views on this DU.

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. It is definitely Fascist, in that corporations and the rich are taking over the politics.

Didn't Hitler outlaw unions?

[SDuderstadt]

6. One of the hallmarks of fascism was...

state control of the economy.

Does that sound like what the GOP is pushing for? Mindlessly slinging the word "fascism" around makes us look almost as silly as the Tea Party.

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. Mussolini's "fascism" meant corporate control of the state.

"Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.

They advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state...

Fascism is anti-communist, anti-democratic, anti-individualist, anti-liberal..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Considering the Wisconsin Republican leadership is a mouthpiece for the corporate Koch brothers and their ownership agenda, and they are by name destroying unions and organizing rights, I'd say that I am correct in the use of the word.

Unfortunately.

[SDuderstadt]

11. You need to do a little more research than...

merely consulting Wikipedia.

[Fire Walk With Me]

21. No, macros are entirely applicable as demonstrations of personal knowledge.

;)

I'm not entirely new to the definition of fascism or the ways of politics...of course I'm not implying an absolute but the -basic- comparison is beyond eerie, straight into "Oh fuck, it's beginning to happen here".

About the only thing the Republicans have not done is arm their constituents (who don't even get that they're supporting corporate takeover of the nation).

[SDuderstadt]

26. Really?

Where's the violent suppression of the opposition? Where's the dictatorship? Both of those are also hallmarks.

[Fire Walk With Me]

28. It's beginning to look a lot like Hitler.

:rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

29. Really?

that's funny, since Hitler was never elected to any government office.

[Fire Walk With Me]

33. Neither was Bush.

[SDuderstadt]

36. He certainly was in 2004...

like it or not.

And, as loathsome as the Bush v Gore decision was, it wasn't comparable to Von Hindenberg appointing Hitler Chancellor of Germany to avert the violent overthrow of the Weimar Republic.

[Fire Walk With Me]

38. I'll take it you're not big on trend detection...

...and that a few bees in the house definitely does not mean that there is a nest between your walls.

That there is ANY possible comparison, is sickening, and must be a call to complete defiance. The price of freedom is hard work.

[SDuderstadt]

41. I don't recall Walker...

being appointed Governor, do you?

I must've also missed the part where he outlawed the Wisconsin Democratic Party.

[LanternWaste]

54. I don't think fascism is predicated on being appointed...

I don't think fascism is predicated on a politician being appointed to a post...

[girl gone mad]

59. Yet, you've done even less research.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. From a guy who knew:

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
— Franklin D. Roosevelt


Seems to fit pretty well. :shrug:

[SDuderstadt]

15. Yet, Obama was elected President...

rather than McCain in 2008.

Gee, I wonder how that happened?

[white_wolf]

18. Because he is just as much on the side of the rich as McCain. n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. The OP was about Wisconsin, dude.

Nice try.

[SDuderstadt]

23. Which also...

voted for Obama. Duh.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Which was 2 years before Walker.

Duh.

[SDuderstadt]

27. Oh, I see...

so, because the people of Wisconsin stupidly ELECTED Walker, that makes Wisconsin fascist?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. No you don't see.

Or, more likely, don't want to.

The OP queried "the rise of fascism" not it's total implementation. Nor was it limited to whatever definition you find acceptable. If you don't see the no-bid sale of public entities to private interests as an emergent sign of "...ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power..." then I can't help you.

Union busting is also a "hallmark," to use your word, of fascist ethos.

I tire of diversionary straw. Have a nice day. :)

[SDuderstadt]

32. You mean the OP that...

asks for comments about the "Fourth Reich" in Wisconsin? That OP?

Silly hyperbole.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

40. I agree that it's hyperbole.

Some people have to ability to understand the gist of something without having to have a perfect pretty bow on it, though.

:shrug:

[SDuderstadt]

42. Agreed...

the problem is DU has a large contingent of people who get fooled by hyperbole. Walker is dangerous and needs to be stopped, but he's no fascist.

[truth2power]

56. Must something be fascist in every identical way before you're willing to call it that?...

I, too, think you're trying to divert attention away from recognizing incipient fascism. I wonder why.

[cali]

2. huh? how can you not know the views of DUers on what's going on

there? Seems that DU is about as unified on what's going on there as it's ever been about anything.

[PeaceNikki]

3. lol, yes people need to start saying SOMETHING here on DU about, Wisconsin, ffs.

:P

[cali]

7. seems a bit of an odd question considering the overwhelming

number of posts about it.

[Initech]

4. We're entering the "fuck you poor people" phase of capitalism.

[jpbollma]

5. I have a reply

I used to be a member of DU and was so busy with my new job after being laid off I stopped contributing. I agree we are entering the all or nothing phase. We are officially becoming slaves.

[white_wolf]

19. I sometmes worry about something.

I worry that nothing short of revolution can save us now, and that is a very dangerous road to travel. Look what happened in France.

[Initech]

43. They'd love it if they could overturn the 13th amendment.

You know they want to but they dare won't say it.

[walldude]

55. Bill Mahr called it: Shine My Shoes Fuckface"...

:rofl:

[mod mom]

8. Unfortunately, not only Wisc but my state of Ohio as well.

To ram their bill through, they didn't even botheer to play by the rules just removed committee people who stood in the way:

Niehaus ripped for removing Seitz
1:17 pm, Mar 2, 2011 | Written by jcraig



Cincinnnati Fire Department Lt. Mark Sanders, president of the Ohio Association of Professional Firefighters, ripped Senate President Tom Niehaus of New Richmond today for abruptly removing Sen. Bill Seitz of Green Township from a committee that narrowly approved Senate Bill 5 this morning, by a 7-5 vote.

Another Republican, Sen. Scott Oelslager of North Canton, was removed from the Senate Rules Committee to avoid a split vote and get the bill to the 33-member Senate floor this afternoon. Seitz and Oelslager have voiced opposition to the bill.


“That’s my senator,” Sanders said of Seitz. “He represents my area. I don’t have that voice anymore. What kind of democracy do we have? I think the Senate has forgotten Ohioans today.”

-snip
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/03/02/niehaus-ripped-for-removing-seitz/



March 02, 2011 08:15 PM
Ohio Republicans Remove Two Committee Members to Ram Anti-Union Bill Through Senate

In what Lawrence O'Donnell described as one of the sleaziest legislative moves he's ever seen, the Republicans in the Ohio Senate jammed through their union busting SB5, but only after removing two Republicans on two separate committees who were opposed to it in order to get it to the Senate floor.

With One-Vote Margin, Ohio State Senate Passes SB 5:

The Ohio State Senate just passed the controversial SB 5, aimed a limiting unionized state employees' ability to collectively bargain or go on strike.

In an indication of how divisive the legislation is in the Buckeye State, the final vote in the Senate was 17-16. The bill now moves to the state House, which like the Senate, is under Republican control.
-snip

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/ohio-republicans-remove-two-committee-memb

Then of course to help insure they retain control they are passing draconian voter suppression laws, as wel.

[Cleita]

9. Yes, it's not just limited to Wisconsin.

Let's hope Wisconsin though is the beginning of killing it.

[blm]

13. Kochs' goons are implementing Full-on Fascism and they have teabaggers fighting FOR that fascism

because they just don't know any better.

[thelordofhell]

14. It will last for a year

Then these idiots will be recalled

[SDuderstadt]

16. Which could not happen under...

"fascism".

[Davis_X_Machina]

17. People get what they vote for...

...and enraged and engaged minorities roll detached and apathetic majorities all the time.

The GOP simply want it more.

We're happier fighting each other than fighting them anyways.

[Bozita]

22. Kochroaches who are most active in the shadows or under cover of darkness

They do not like the light.

[HereSince1628]

25. It's sort of upside down fascism, if it's fascism.

It certainly feels unAmerican, and anti-democracy. But the intererest seem strangely reversed.

Fascism was about government bundling the people and industry together to do the things that the government wanted to do.

In Wisconsin's case, it isn't government that is doing the bundling but the super-rich. This corporate control has come about in two ways: First, the super-rich back candidates who will make good puppets. In general these guys are dumb as Lannon Stone so they easily fall for...Second, the super-rich are supporting "think" tanks that are ginning up corporate friendly model legislation that the puppet legislature and executive branches in Wisconsin would never be clever enough to write.

Fascism was very much natavistic and intended to build a strong state. What's going on in Wisconsin is actually being done for the benefit of super rich that don't live here, and it isn't being done to make the state strong, but to make the state WEAK while promoting profits for corporations. Lower taxes, removal of regulations...are all things that make the state weaker.

It's certainly true that this has proceeded as a Putsch, racing forward enabling laws that are intended to create an environment that will favor Corporate control for generations.

Fascism, especially nazism was very xenophobic. What's happening in Wisconsin doesn't have that feel (at least no yet). It's certainly racist, but no one is being expatriated from Wisconsin. This doesn't seem to be against gays, or Jews, or Gypsies, or Native Americans, or Blacks per se, in a manner that would secure the future dominance of white people over everyone else in Wisconsin. Rather it seems to be against the protections of workers of all types, and an attempt to secure the dominant role of corporations in public policy making.

At this time, there is no drive to create camps to develop healthy, well indoctrinated youth. Instead the effort is to reduce education, and reduce healthcare. The purpose for which is a puzzle because stupid sick people don't serve anyone's interest.

[Mz Pip]

30. It really seems closer

to an oligarchy or plutocracy, or perhaps an oligarchy by proxy. The governor and senate may not be from a ruling class of wealthy people but they are doing the bidding of that group.

[SDuderstadt]

34. Agreed n/t

[RKP5637]

44. +1, n/t

[Snoutport]

35. Dictionary.com: Fascist: a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views.

and forces them on people who don't have those same views.

pretty clear.

[SDuderstadt]

37. The political definition of...

a "fascist" or "fascism" is far more complicated than that. Walker is an idiot, but he isn't a fascist.

[HereSince1628]

39. as a definition that is simply a common usage

it's a consequence of what people feel, not a reason for people to believe something.

[Nye Bevan]

45. It sucks. Walker has seized absolute power, canceled all future elections,

and set up a private SS-style army who are murdering, beating up and sending to concentration camps everyone who is opposed to him. If I lived in Minnesota I would be terrified, as there are few fortifications along the WI-MN border.

[undeterred]

47. So I should take down my yard signs?

:shrug:

[bobthedrummer]

46. ^^^^ ^^^^

[bobthedrummer]

48. Not too many here know their history-those that do are the real "reality based" community.

Corporate fascism is the Walker administration's dominant political force-no mistaking that fact. That fascism is being challenged daily here.

I want to hear from other DUer's that know their history and have a grasp of "deep politics".

Kick for more participation.

[bobthedrummer]

49. I'm not the kind of citizen that buys into that old "silence denotes consent" bullcrap-all is not

quiet here in Wisconsin, despite the captive MSM.

What are your views about this rise of fascism here?

[highplainsdem]

50. Not "the Fourth Reich" but plutocracy, partly implemented via ALEC.

There are lots of topics in my journal on ALEC and plutocracy.

I realize the Nazi comparisons can be tempting, and I slipped into making one myself, a while back (and got hammered for it here).

But it's really plutocracy, and as authoritarian as some corporate minions like Walker and Fitzgerald are, it isn't fascism.

[bobthedrummer]

51. It is corporate fascism, it is rising-where do you place Karl Rove on any political spectrum?

Rove's American Action Network/AAN was working overtime here last year, they are corporate fascists

American Action Network/AAN (Source Watch profile)
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Action_Network

-of course they had the Koch brothers and many Wisconsin extreme RWer's on board their "train"

[bobthedrummer]

52. One more kick for all you "out of towners" to post as well as Wisconsinites n/t

[bobthedrummer]

53. Der Gauleiter says he "will comply" with the Court's order; i.e. his "budget bill" is NOT IN EFFECT.

What do my fellow DUers think about these "latest" corporate fascist maneuverings here in condition red state Wisconsin???

[bobthedrummer]

57. Here's another opportunity to comment on the corporate fascist influenced state of Wisconsin

and the responses of we, the people.

[bobthedrummer]

58. The recall petition on State Senator Dan Kapanke (R) has been delivered.

Be sure to vote Tuesday.

And don't bother to show/flaunt/taunt US with the money, honey, anymore or everagain.

Kick.

[bobthedrummer]

60. Corporate fascism=Scott Walker's largest $$$ support group-Walker is open to that business

What do you have to say today this DU?