Does the Highest Life Expectancy, Education Level, Per Capita Income, MEAN IT'S BOMBING TIME

[Distant Observer]

AGAIN!

I find it totally frightening that no less violent and destructive solution to the "Libya problem" could be found
than destroying the only country in Africa that rose from being the poorest country to having the highest quality of live,
most hospitals, Universities and Technical institutes per capita.

Many countries in Africa had great natural resource wealth - Nigeria, South Africa, the Congo. But only Libya stood as
a shining example of how an African country's natural wealth could be quickly used to change the living conditions of
average citizens.

Now the Western powers have decided that its good to destroy Libya and then "reconstruct" when they have
changed the regime and granted "freedom" to the "oppressed".

Given the outcome of "Coalition" destruction in Iraq, I can see nothing but a degradation of the society and long running conflict coming from the "humanitarian" action.

I there is hope of something else, will someone please explain it to me?

[The Magistrate]

1. Of Course It Does, Sir: The Satan That is The U.S. And NATO Cannot Stand Happy, Healthy Arabs

The entire point of this operation is to wreck and ruin an exemplary society, with a maximum of dead burnt babies into the bargain.

[Distant Observer]

4. How cute. Of course some or many felt oppressed. Just as in US. No bombs here, Please

[The Magistrate]

5. Seriously, Sir, What Else Could Your Head-Line Mean? The U.S. Attacks Libya Because it is Great!

That is your actual claim, and for some reason, you have difficulty taking 'Yes!' for an answer....

[Distant Observer]

21. No. But SOME U.S. brains aren't willing to look at what's REALY HAPPENING in a society before

turning to a "Military Option" which result is destroying much of what the locals
put their their all into for the good of their own countries.

The assumption is that anything good can be made better by Western intervention.
When it is a bloody mess, it must be "their" fault.

[The Magistrate]

38. Again, Sir, How Are We Arguing? You Say We Attack Libya Because It is Paradise, And Who Dsagrees?

[tiny elvis]

2. i think this is more a french and italian venture with usa help

there may be more to learn from france and italy than the usa

[leftstreet]

14. +1

[Distant Observer]

41. Actually French and British, though major ties currently are with Itallians

[Newest Reality]

3. Well, Shock Doctrine is the

prevalent way to do capitalism these days.

[cali]

6. I really detest ridiculous nonsensical hysterical arguments.

[The Magistrate]

7. Oh, He Is On To Something, Ma'am, Without Question

We bomb Libya because it is a swell place.

We do nothing about Cote d'Ivoire because it is a dump.

It explains everything!

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Dang. It all comes clear now.

[Distant Observer]

35. If Libya was still the poorest country in the world -- as World Bank statistics show in 1952--

The Western power would not give a * what happened there.

You would not have all these "deserving" folk that they seem to relate to.

Libya is so lucky that they have their Shalabi and "Curve-Ball" equivalents.

[The Magistrate]

37. And Clearly, Sir, The Present Purpose Is To Return It To That State: You Are Absolutely Right

The root of the present U.S. and NATO actions is an abhorrence of happy, healthy Moslems and Arabs: those devils in Washington and London and Paris will do anything, anytime, anywhere, to that end....

[dionysus]

26. i can tell.

;)

[elleng]

9. Gaddafy has destroyed the country.

'we' are helping the PEOPLE of Libya to resurrect the country for them.

[Distant Observer]

32. Are with Back to "1984" newspeak, facts are irrelavant, black is white

Or are you being sarcastic.

[elleng]

34. and you are Distant.

[Arctic Dave]

10. I would say you are somewhat correct.

I image we will have to bomb power plants and water treatment facilities eventually. Of rebuilding them will have outrageous cost over runs if they ever get finished.

[Catherina]

11. I find it frightening too. The least we could do is finish reconstructing Iraq to what it was before

before creating another reconstruction project.

I've been reading a lot lately on what the press had to say about Libya before 2011.

So it was Gaddafi who sent women to school and abolished the practice of cloistered and walled up as things to be owned by men? It was Gaddafi who modernized the country? I'm still reading a lot but everything I'm finding, to included eyewitness accounts, prior to Jan 2011 is highly complimentary of what he did for Libya. Over $50 billion alone with just AECOM on one project?

... roads, schools, hospitals, universities, low cost housing, the beginning of industrialization and agricultural development bringing water to the desert, up to a depth of 600-800-1.000 m Two water systems (built by South Korea) taking water from the desert to the coast, 900 km to the north.

...

sent girls to school and college, abolished polygamy and passed laws in favour of women in marriage: for example, he prohibited the use of keeping girls and women locked in the rooms and walled courtyard of the house. Above all, he controlled and kept in check Islamic extremism.

...

Until now there has been religious freedom in Libya. The 100 thousand Christians (no Libyans, all foreign workers in most part Egyptian Copts), albeit with many limitations, enjoy freedom of worship and assembly

...

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Gaddafi-a-controversial-dictator-21141.html

... collaborative program to train Libyan engineers to build and maintain homes, roads and water systems in their homeland.
The initiative is part of a $50-billion-plus capital-improvement program managed by AECOM and the Libyan Housing and Infrastructure Board (HIB) to modernize urban housing and water systems for major Libyan cities. The project is being led from AECOM's Houston and Tripoli offices.


http://www.aecom.com/www/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=236acef8cc1a4210VgnVCM100000089e1bacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default

Libya looks to the future

By Heba Saleh

Published: June 7 2010 17:55 | Last updated: June 7 2010 17:55


...

At a time of global gloom when most governments are tightening their belts, Libya is a rare source of light. The north African oil exporter is splurging on massive building projects in an attempt to make up for 40 years of underinvestment that have left it with poor services and its infrastructure in tatters.

Tripoli, the once-shabby, low-rise capital, is being spruced up with new roads and elegant, modern towers along the waterfront, and cranes dot the cityscape – all part of a drive to build new office blocks, housing and hotels.

Having emerged from international isolation after the lifting of United Nations sanctions in 2003, Libya is attracting big-name companies from around the world anxious to build its much-needed housing, roads, utilities, hotels, universities, ports, railways and desalination plants. Most recognise the enormous potential for big contracts in a wealthy state determined to rebuild almost every aspect of its infrastructure.

Nearly all infrastructure projects are funded by public money, but Libya, which has some of the richest oil and gas reserves in Africa, can afford its ambitious modernisation programme. Hydro-carbon exports account for 95 per cent of foreign revenues, and the country has built up substantial foreign currency assets of $139bn (£95bn, €114bn), giving it plenty of room to manoeuvre. Total spending in this year’s budget is $46.6bn, up 32 per cent from a year before. According to official figures, Libya has allocated roughly $66bn to infrastructure and housing projects between 2010 and 2012.

...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/715e41e6-6fc6-11df-8fcf-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1I2sHZf1S

...

With oil money filling government coffers, the state is undertaking massive infrastructure projects, doling out international contracts for ambitious housing developments, constructing a national railway network, and slowly opening the country to private foreign investment.

In Tripoli, the capital, cement skeletons along the city’s airport road will soon be sleek luxury high-rises as Libya tackles a 500,000 unit housing shortage. Known as the Bab Tripoli complex, the government-funded plush Turkish development is valued at some $1.3 billion and is set to be completed in November 2011. It boasts 115 buildings with 2,018 apartments as well as office spaces, and a giant mall complete with a 22-lane bowling alley, a movie theater, a five-star hotel.

...

In Benghazi, Libya’s second-largest city, two government-funded housing projects consisting of 20,000 units, costing approximately $4.8 billion, are half way to completion. At the Ghanfuda New Town site, eight miles south of the center of the city, row upon row of apartment block frames jut out of the desert. American AECOM and South Korean HanmiParsons manage the site, while China State Construction Company handles the building. To meet the needs of the 15,000 apartments and 5,000 villas, the group constructed their own concrete factories.


To combat income disparity and alleviate the growing pains of privatization, the Libyan government has set up social fund to provide 222,000 families approximately $377 dollars per month from investment funds financed by oil profit

...

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0712/Libya-s-path-from-desert-to-modern-country-complete-with-ice-rink

[sad sally]

13. ain't no stinking reconstruction needs in America - bite the bullet -

we got to rebuild what we blow up - that's the rules.

[Catherina]

16. I can only shake my head Sally.

So we're going to spend billions to go bomb a guy who was spending billions building up his country's ultrastructure, providing free education, hospitals, housing, social services, destroy all those things to give govt friends like Halliburton contracts instead of using that money over here?

Do I have the rules right?

Where's the trickle down part? Will it trickle down from the skies along with thank you notes from the Libyan people?

[sad sally]

17. Bingo! You get the kitten!

That's the engagement rules.

Remember Iraq? After we bombed it to pieces, blew up the electrical grids, got Sunnis and Shites killing each other, plus the garbage men (so trash piled up), the bakers (so there was no bread), the schools and teachers (so kids had no classes), well then the US government gave military commanders sacks of money so they could give the money to "somebody" who was in charge to rebuild the country.

And viola - Iraq is 100% good today! Oh, wait, it's not good...sorry. Maybe the US can get it right in Libya. Third times a charm.

[Catherina]

18. There's no way this is going to end well. No way. n/t

[madinmaryland]

12. Huh? Un-recced.

[WinkyDink]

15. There's some privatization going on, it seems. I'm starting to go "Hmmmmmm....."

[Starry Messenger]

19. kick.

[Hannah Bell]

20. kr. but still zero. khaddafi is no worse & some better than plenty of dictators the west

has cozied up to.

it's not about humanitarianism.

[FLPanhandle]

22. I wonder why the citizens are rebelling in "paradise"?

Odd that such a paradise would have such dissent and dissatisfaction.

[Distant Observer]

23. Not paradise, the King's clan has been left out of power for the most part

and they view Libya's Oil wealth and the stewardship of Libya's Islamic culture to be rightly theirs.

[FLPanhandle]

24. It's more than some "Kings clan" that are fighting

This is much more broad based than that.

[Distant Observer]

25. The Opposition is based in the Cyrenaican peoples, wherever in Libya

There is a long running grudge and dissatisfaction for various reasons, but it is rooted
in the fact the their group were loyal to King Idris, the political and religious ruler,
who was deposed by Gaddafi

[Aerows]

28. Well...

...Great Britain got caught with operatives in Libya stirring up the population. They were caught red handed. If they are doing it, you can be sure the US was doing it, too. Now we have a guy that looks very like a CIA operative leaving the US to be the "rebel leader".

Give people enough money and stir up the right people, and you can start a revolution. It isn't a coincidence that Libya has a lot of oil and that's why we are there. Libya has been a target for a very long time.

[Distant Observer]

27. Check out some illustrations of how Quality of Life improve under Gaddafi regime

From the U.S. State Department, prior to revolution Libya was a colonial outpost with extreme poverty and lack of education in the hinterland. Today, Libya approaches the standards of modern developed countries.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5425.htm
Education: Years compulsory--9. Attendance--90%. Literacy (age 15 and over who can read and write)--total population 82.6%; male 92.4%; female 72% (2003 est.).
Health (2010 est.): Infant mortality rate--20.87 deaths/1,000 live births. Life expectancy--total population 77.47 yrs.; male 75.18 yrs.; female 79.88 yrs.

Compares trajectory of improvements in Libya with that in other "Candidates" for "Humanitarian Intervention."

Female Literacy
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bw0nySplc4-9MDg0MTg0NTAtNjk4Ny00ZjIzLWFjZmYtMmM4MzNiZTllYzk5&hl=en
Infant Mortality
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bw0nySplc4-9OGFjYzEwNjItM2Q4MS00YjI5LWI0MDgtZDJkMjYxZmZkMWE5&hl=en
Life Expectancy
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bw0nySplc4-9ODU2NWMxOGUtYTgxMi00ZDk5LTkzNTEtMDNkNzhkMWM3Y2Rh&hl=en

[Romulox]

29. K/R. Still waiting for an intelligible standard to let us know why war in Libya,

and not, say, Palestine, or Syria. :shrug:

[Distant Observer]

30. Or Ivory Coast, or Yemen, or Bahrain, or Burma

[Romulox]

31. Or Detroit. Or Los Angeles. Or Newark. When will we "rebuild" our own country?

:shrug:

[cali]

33. Why on earth would you rec anything this nonsensical?

I'm against the military crap in Libya but that doesn't mean I endorse idiot arguments simply because they're on the "same side".

[Romulox]

36. If you can't explain "why Libya, but not Yemen (or Saudi, Bahrain, etc. etc.)"

then your arguments are as "idiot" as the next. Nor is your endorsement of particular interest to me. :shrug:

[The Magistrate]

40. Imagine The Scene, Sir, When A Man Stands Up In Court And Says...

"Your Honor, there are many burglars abroad in the city; even now, as we stand here, houses are being burgled! How can there be any justice in putting me on trial for burglary, while all these others go un-punished? It is only right that you dismiss the charge against me, until such time as every other burglar in the city has been apprehended and placed in the dock alongside me!"

[DevonRex]

39. ...

:rofl:

[The Magistrate]

42. Indeed, Sir....