Autistic boy ruled OK for sex change by family court

[The Straight Story]

Autistic boy ruled OK for sex change by family court

AN AUTISTIC schoolboy has been granted court approval to begin treatment to become a woman - on the proviso the teenager has his sperm frozen in case he wants to have children in the future.

Ruling on an emergency application by his parents in the Family Court, Justice Linda Dessau backed the wishes of the 16-year-old - who was given the pseudonym "O" - to begin drug treatment before puberty fully takes hold, reported The Daily Telegraph.

Justice Dessau said that the boy, who suffers from mild Asperger's syndrome, was mature enough to know what he wanted.

She added that her decision was backed by his parents, six specialists and the boy's independent lawyer.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/autistic-boy-ruled-ok-for-sex-change/story-e6frfkvr-1225977521818#ixzz19R5CW98t

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

2. why? and why 'eek'? got a case of the 'icks'? nt

[LynneSin]

3. Why 'eek'? I think this is wonderful that they would allow this

this is all good news.

I just watched an episode of "Intervention" where this woman was so tortured and abusing herself with herion. In the end 'she' not only received the treatment needed but finally living the life as the right gender helped to overcome addiction.

[uppityperson]

4. The freezing sperm seems a bit overdone but good.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I know someone who can't have kids now who once had the option of

saving some sperm for the future, but he didn't take it and now regrets that choice. Better safe than sorry.

[uppityperson]

9. I understand that, just the legal mandate of needing to rankles. eom

[negativenihil]

5. Devil's Advocate here

Ok so let's break this down a little.

You've got a mentally challenged boy, who is surrounded by people telling him this is what he wants.

You've got a father, who apparently use to dress the boy in girl's clothes - which apparently later lead to the boy secretly dressing in his sister's clothes.

On top of this, you've got the boy being on record as to attempting suicide because he wanted to be a woman so bad.

I'm sorry - but this just feels totally wrong. Can anyone say for sure this is exactly what this boy wants, and not the result of everyone around him telling him it's what he wants? Would it not be horrible for him to years later regret letting this happen? Can this boy actually grasp the gravity of the decision that's being made here?

Can't wait to read the flames coming my way!

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Mild Asperger's doesn't mean he doesn't know who he is, though.

[negativenihil]

8. who is to say he hasn't been coached?

Seriously - he's mentally challenged - everyone around him is saying this is what he wants... what if he's just trying to please his father?

Is no one else bothered by this line?

"The boy's father had enjoyed dressing up as a girl but he said he "grew out of it"."

[uppityperson]

14. I'm not bothered by the father doing this as a kid. Ever see Rocky Horror?

[Poll_Blind]

18. One thing about DU and really all online forums where people discuss political or social stuff is...

...that the facts of the matter, even in the best cases, are usually reduced to stereotypes- especially given that so few news articles go into any depth beyond some sensational point. After reading your message, I went and read the full article. While I don't think you and I don't necessarily share the exact same viewpoint on the matter, I am also troubled by a couple of things in that article- some of which you touched on.

I bet that there is quite a bit left out of the article which would give more clarification about just how healthy this is and how much this is him and how much it's...someone else.

Whatever the case, I genuinely hope the child is empowered by their choice.

PB

[negativenihil]

19. i feel the same way

This article really lacked depth for such a large life changing subject.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. A person with Aspergers is not mentally challenged

That's a stretch.

[SmileyRose]

10. Autism does not equal mentally challenged

I fully reject that.

[dawg]

12. + 1000

But it does mean mentally *different*. I think this boy should wait.

[negativenihil]

23. i'm sorry

...but i feel its definition is pretty clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Characteristics

"Autism is a highly variable neurodevelopmental disorder."

Look, before you flame me- i get it. You probably either have someone in your family or know someone who's autistic, and i'm sure they are a very special person to you. But they are in fact mentally challenged. Ignoring the limitations and challenges an autistic person faces every day will not somehow make them better or cure them.

[uppityperson]

28. mild Asperger's syndrome like Stephen Spielberg? Bill Gates?

Info about Asperger's (not wiki)
http://www.ncpamd.com/aspergers.htm

Regarding Spielberg:
http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/steven_spielberg.htm

[Dappleganger]

30. But they are quite capable to make decisions for themselves,

specifically regarding their own gender. Of course, some people would have them continue on in their misery of being stuck in the wrong-gendered body, ya know.

It is a very mild neuro disorder, an aspy has the best chance of living a normal, self-sufficient life than most with neuro disorders. Better she be happy in her own skin--and btw, how does this hurt anyone??

[SmileyRose]

32. I know a good number of aspies

and not one of them is mentally challenged, limited or any other word you want to put on it. Now, as far as the autism spectrum is considered, I do know some people on the spectrum that have various challenges and others who do not. The automatic assumption someone with Aspergers, or autism in general, would be mentally challenged is just a complete falsehood.

[uppityperson]

13. You are a bit wrong there. The FATHER enjoyed dressing up as a girl. The TEEN

The father:
"The boy's father had enjoyed dressing up as a girl but he said he "grew out of it".
The parents thought the same thing would happen to O but, at the age of 14, he told them he was revolted by his male body."


The teen:
"In the case of O, the court heard he comes from a loving family who "adore and respect him". His 14-year-old sister, whose clothes he secretly dressed in, was also supportive."

[negativenihil]

17. Well,

Well, then i must admit my error in understanding that sentence when i read it.

For some reason i read it as the father had dressed the boy up in girl's clothing - so i'll happily admit i was wrong on that point

[cali]

15. Not necessarily. Many people with Asperger's are very bright indeed.

[uppityperson]

16. A couple more bits I see you have as wrong.

"You've got a mentally challenged boy, who is surrounded by people telling him this is what he wants. "

Justice Dessau said that the boy, who suffers from mild Asperger's syndrome, was mature enough to know what he wanted.

The involved judge judges him not "mentally challenged but mature enough to "grasp the gravity of the decision". Also, he is surround by people supporting what HE wants, not "telling him this is what he wants."

"On top of this, you've got the boy being on record as to attempting suicide because he wanted to be a woman so bad. "

And? So? Seems it is what HE wants.

[negativenihil]

21. two points

first - if he had been coached for months on this, then is it hard to imagine the boy being able to "put on a good show" for the judge?

second - the suicide attempt to me illustrates some pretty serious mental imbalances (like any suicide attempt). How can anyone be sure this child is actually thinking this choice out?

[uppityperson]

22. "How can anyone..", you mean aside from the judge, the attorney, the 6 specialists?

Somehow I think they all probably had access to more info than we do with this story.

What makes someone unhappy, suicidal, should be discounted because it makes them feel suicidal. Huh.

[negativenihil]

24. But you've ignored my first point

...which leads into the 2nd point.

Who is to say this child wasn't coached or is simply trying to please his parents? Have you ever known any suicidal individual to really think rationally?

You're very right about us having very little information to go on...

[uppityperson]

25. " Have you ever known any suicidal individual to really think rationally? " Yes.

Simply being suicidal does not mean you aren't thinking rationally.

"Who is to say this child wasn't coached or is simply trying to please his parents?"

Aside from the judge, the 6 specialists and the judge? I think that was the reason for the long involved hearings.

[negativenihil]

29. wow

You've clearly known some unique people.

In my experiences, i've yet run into someone who was honestly suicidal AND thinking rationally. I'm not talking your average 16 year old high school girl threatening to OD on sleeping pills because mom took the car keys - i'm talking honest to goodness gun to the person's head, round in the chamber, ready to blow their brains all over the nearest wall. Anything BUT rational imo.

In any case, I still feel that it's entirely possible this child was coached, and to a point where he could "put on a show" good enough to convince all involved. But I'm doubting we're going to see eye to eye here.

[uppityperson]

33. While I share qualities with many people, I see myself, and everyone else, as unique.

Most who are "honestly suicidal" do not end up killing themselves, most who are "honestly suicidal" do not put a gun to their head/etc. And simply because they are "honestly suicidal" does not mean they are not thinking rationally. Yes, some are not, but simply being "honestly suicidal" does not mean you are not thinking rationally about why. Sometimes death is not the worst thing there can be.

There was a reason for the involved hearings. If there hadn't been these hearings, I might be more concerned.

[Dappleganger]

31. What if you hated your body so much

that you took the only way out of it?

[negativenihil]

34. What if i sought counceling...

...to help with thoughts of suicide and gender identity issues?

suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness imo. just throwing that out there. (oh and i survived public high school as part of the computer club. i understand having ideas of suicide very intimately. )

[uppityperson]

35. I thought you said suicidal people didn't think rationally.

[negativenihil]

37. i did!

But we're playing "what if" here.

[uppityperson]

38. If you did, that would be rational. And wtf does it have to do with this thread?

[negativenihil]

39. summary

You said: "I thought you said suicidal people didn't think rationally."
To which i replied: "I did! but we're playing "what if" "

Please be sure to read the body of the message, and not just the subject line before replying.

[uppityperson]

40. Summary

You wrote: What if i sought counceling...
...to help with thoughts of suicide and gender identity issues?

To which I replies:
If you did, that would be rational. And wtf does it have to do with this thread?


Be sure to read the subthread, not just one reply. So, wtf does it have to do with this thread?

[negativenihil]

43. summary part 3!

Again - we're playing "what if" here.

My "what if" was in reply to the prior "what if you hated your body so much....".

If you'd like to dissect my personal experiences, i'm sure we could start another thread - but again - we're playing "what if" here.

(Since you're going to read this anyway, i've never personally had gender identity issues, and i did seek council when things were rough in my youth. While i may have had a passing thought of suicide, i never acted. Unlike the boy in this article. I hope you can understand the very clear difference.)

[uppityperson]

44. If you did, that would be rational. And wtf does it have to do with this thread?

"What if i sought counceling...
...to help with thoughts of suicide and gender identity issues?"

If you did, that would be rational. You might come up with ways of dealing with your problems, some of which may be get gender surgery. You say you are playing "what if". So, if you did that would be rational. So?

And wtf does it have to do with this thread? It seems the teen in OP did have counseling, remember those specialists at the trial?

I am confused as to what is going on here. Would you take a moment to try and clarify. I do not see how this applies to the OP, and you keep saying you are playing "what if". I keep replying to your "what if" and asking how it applies to OP. You then reply you are playing "what if". So, my reply is if you seek counseling for mental health issue, including gender identity issues, this is good.

What more are you looking for?

[Dappleganger]

46. Obviously you have never dealt with serious depression...

people who suffer from it rarely can see clearly enough to know they need help or counseling. Bless your heart.

[backscatter712]

27. That's why they had the hearing.

The judge had plenty of opportunity to hear such arguments, and did. The boy himself wants it, his parents back him up, several doctors, presumably including psychiatrists and psychologists backed him up, so I say that you've got the burden of proof to show why he shouldn't have this.

Besides, the kid's got Aspergers, and a lot of Aspergers kids are very smart and lucid enough to make such decisions. He's not retarded.

[Odin2005]

42. People with Asperger's are of average or above average intelligence by definition.

We are not "mentally challenged".

[dawg]

11. Yeah, I've got a real problem with this.

I'm not opposed to gender-reassignment surgery. I'm sure it's a lifesaver for some people. I just think a decision of that magnitude should only be made by the *adult* who is to undergo the surgery. Maybe I'd feel differently if the procedure was easily reversible, but it's not.

Society does not trust this kid to drink a beer, vote, smoke a cigarette, or watch an R rated movie, but we'll let him make this decision?

I see his dad grew out of *his* deisre to dress up in women's clothes. How are we to assume his Aspie son, notorious for their obsessiveness and developmental delays, wouldn't change his mind as well?

[pitohui]

20. yeah the judge doesn't know what asperger's is

you could present as very intelligent and "smart" and the judge misreads this as "mature"

i think the kid should be required to wait and make the decision as an adult and i think if he/she was really smart, she'd wait until his mid 20s and see how his or her ideas and opinions change

i hated my body as a teen too, it doesn't mean that surgery would have done fuck-all to change that, i may have even tried suicide as a teen (who didn't?) but again having an operation wouldn't have made that any better

some things, only time will change -- i'm not saying wait until age 50 to get your surgery, as a friend of mine did, but i'm not saying that's the worst thing in the world either -- my friend has literally had the opportunity to live two lives, as a soldier and a father, and now as a woman -- what's the big rush?

another disturbing thing, the kid in question is 16 yet claims to be female yet claims she wants to get the hormones before "puberty takes hold," a female is already well into the thunderstorm of puberty at that age, and i'm not seeing any benefit from this mad rush to get major surgery in one's teens

say a young lady w. asperger's had attempted suicide because her ta-tas were too little and her whole family supported her in the belief that her body and her life would be better with bigger ta-tas, say her ENTIRE SOCIETY (like our entire society) supported the belief that woman are valuable exactly as large as their boobs happen to be -- nonetheless the wise judge would tell the kid to wait until adulthood to get the implants, and that's just one surgery, not a series of surgeries

[delightfulstar]

26. From the mom of an Aspie...

Most people like my son (and "O," for that matter) are high functioning, and have a good grip on their desired identity. Figuratively, if my son were at this point, and we had ruled out every other possibility, then I would have no objection. But it is a long, involved process to go through a change of gender, and it's not something to be taken lightly at all. There will be a lot of counseling needed here during the process to make sure that everyone in "O's" family is taken care of, and that "O" will transition into a sucessful new stage in life, full of healthy happiness.

[zalinda]

36. My understanding is that you have to

live as the gender you wish to become, for at least a year. In that year hormones are taken, to change voice, facial hair and what not. To start giving him hormones BEFORE his voice changes for good, or is shaving everyday makes good sense. Boys normally start puberty later than girls, and finish later. If during the time of his living like a girl, he changes his mind, he will be able to continue though puberty easier, with fewer side effects.

In the case of this teenager, he may have to put off the operation until he's 18, because of his young age.

zalinda

[Odin2005]

41. This Aspie's opinion: It's his choice.

[DCKit]

45. Sorry, but he's just too young to be making that decision now.

There is no reason he can't spend a few more years living as a woman to decide whether it's what he really wants.

I've had a recent experience with a family member who simply doesn't know which sex they want to be, and feel the enablers (therapists, psychologists and surgeons) who have simply taken money to say "yes" to everything, should be shot.