For the first time in my life, I walked out

[kpete]

SUN APR 10, 2011 AT 10:48 AM EDT
For the first time in my life, I walked out
byMRobDC

...................

Today's gospel was about the Jewish leaders lieing about Jesus, saying that he was demon possessed etc. I expected the typical "be courageous even when people mock and lie about you" homily. Instead, the priest begins by calling out Senators Reid and Schumer by name, accusing them of lieing about Planned Parenthood and facilitating the murder of babies. The priest parroted all of the republican lies about Planned Parenthood: 98% of their services are abortion, employees have been caught talking women into abortions that didn't want, that the majority of the funding for PP comes from taxpayer dollars, and that PP cooks their books to make it appear that federal money doesn't cover abortions. All lies that have been fully exposed.

So I sat there and listened. I looked around and could not believe that there was noone else in the church being made physically uncomfortable by what was being said. The righteous indignation that began to rise in me finally came to a head when the priest said that any person who calls themself a Catholic should be ashamed to support liars like Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer. No, Father. Catholics should be ashamed to support liars like John Boehner, Michele Bachmann, and Steve King who claim to care so much about blastulas that they are willing to throw the poor, disabled, and elderly under the bus for political points.

So I walked out. The first time in my life that I have ever been so angry at what was being said in a church that I chose to get up and leave. I will never be returning to that parish again. There are plenty of others to choose from where the priests do not make political tirades from the pulpit. I went 2 blocks down and went to Mass at another parish. The priest there talked about our moral responsibility to stand up to injustice. In my small way, walking out of the first parish this morning was my way to stand up to the injustice and outright lies being spewed from the pulpit there.

....................

MORE:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/10/965459/-For-the-first-time-in-my-life,-I-walked-out

[grahamhgreen]

1. Churches have become political organizations - they should pay taxes.

[kpete]

2. amen

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

5. A whole-hearted yes to this!

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. Pretty sure they've always been political organizations. nt

[Hawkowl]

12. Churches are ALWAYS political organizations

Organized religion arose specifically to rule people and get them to pay taxes, i.e; tithes. And yes, they should pay taxes.

[Sherman A1]

84. Precisely

which is one reason I am a fallen away Catholic.

[fredamae]

13. Absolutely!

I would take that complaint to the Sec of States office in your state!

[femrap]

19. I'd call the IRS tomorrow. nt

[demodonkey]

28. +10000 nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. Or maybe return next week and record it and then go to the IRS?

Of course there are no assurances that he'll talk about it again, but I wouldn't be surprised that once the flood gates were open....

[femrap]

37. I have one of those little

digital recorders....it's a great little gadget.

I'd still call the IRS....Put the fear of "IRS" in him. This priest is so far from Jesus that he should be fired.

Or write the Pope! I doubt that the Pope wants to start paying taxes.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

59. Or go to the Archdiocese and tell the Bishop. He wouldn't probably be so pleased if their tax status

was in jeopardy.

[JoePhilly]

152. There probably are recordings of it. Lots of churches record their

services so that the sick and elderly members can watch it at home.

[NotThisTime]

40. +10000 call tomorrow and report it

[rhett o rick]

108. Be careful, you dont want to irritate the IRS. nm

[raccoon]

146. I second that emotion! nt

[Duppers]

173. Good luck with that.

Are you not familiar with the hardball the famous cult of scientology played with the IRS and won?

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/irs.html

http://www.factnet.org/headlines/give-away.htm


The IRS are chickenshits when it comes to religious/cult organizations.

[Common Sense Party]

174. Should the IRS also be called if the priest was speaking pro-abortion?

Or praising progressive politicians and positions?

[femrap]

184. Yea.....like there's a

zillion priests out there who are 'pro-choice.' And please stop using the fundie framing of 'pro-abortion.' It's Pro-choice.

These priests are pro-fetus, not pro-life.

Plus they can't even have sex, wed or raise children. They should just STFU. They're something out of the Dark Ages. And given that many of them hide in the priesthood so to abuse children, and their bosses cover it up, I don't have much respect for the bums.

[Common Sense Party]

186. I realize that it's not even a rarity. It's hypothetical.

If the priest or preacher is speaking about political or social issues with a left-wing slant, that's equally troublesome, right?

[femrap]

188. The Lefties are the only

ones who are threatened....this happened to a well known Black Church in downtown Cincinnati during the 2004 Election.

The IRS is probably just like the rest of fascist gov't...it protects the Rich and Corporations and goes after the little people.

This isn't your parents' nation anymore.

In this age of fascism, hypothetical is just a waste of time. Reality is all that matters.

[Arugula Latte]

38. Yep. Tax their dogmatic asses.

[pezDispenser]

43. Have become?

Or always have been?

[oldhippydude]

47. yep

we have a growing faith industry in this country.. instead of taxing them we now subsidize this crap through the faith based initiative thAT W. started..

looks like we have a choice of being screwed by business(fascism), or religion (theocracy) NAME YOUR POISON

[BrklynLiberal]

58. THAT is great idea.

[PurityOfEssence]

71. Yes, and the argument used against Planned Parenthood should be used against Faith-Based Groups

The argument is that completely de-funding Planned Parenthood is necessary because it's not really possible to keep funds from not being used for specific functions.

There's some truth to that argument, so if it's to be used as justification here, it should be used against the grants for Faith-Based Organizations: they can't really keep all that money from being used to proselytize, and even if they do, it frees tithed money that would otherwise be used for upkeep. They WANT to remind everybody that the ONLY source of love and kindness is from their big whozeewhatzit and that such a thing's existence is proved by the soup at hand.

Make no mistake about it: the ONLY fight against Planned Parenthood comes from RELIGION. It's much the same with Gay Rights. It's cultural imperialism, and it brooks no dissent.

[madrchsod]

88. not all churches are....

[roguevalley]

95. you did good. my parents walked out of church and never went

back to it when they said we couldn't vote for kennedy because he was Catholic

[Harmony Blue]

113. I agree with this 100%

Who will have the courage to point out this truth though?

[freshwest]

124. Yup. Not paying taxes gives them more of an advantage than Citizens United ever could.

And when they do charity work, the big ones use federal money. BS.

[ThomCat]

132. Yes!

[defendandprotect]

133. Organized patriarchal religion has always been political -- !!

It underpins patriarchy -- !!



Male-supremacist religion -- patriarchy -- capitalism --

The Unholy Trinity!!

[harmonicon]

138. +1 nt

[slackmaster]

162. Churches are among the worst offenders. Other non-profits violate their tax exemt status rules too.

:argh:

[letemrot]

175. You're right of course...

Will it be all churches? Unions( the union itself, I know members pay), will they pay taxes? What about other charities and non profits, who decides and how? Where would the line be drawn?


*on Edit* grammer

[Duck]

177. Yes

It is a sad truth that most Americans have no understanding of how our founding fathers felt about organized religion. The "Christian Nation" notion is a blatant lie. Allowing churches tax exempt status is a sham and unconstitutional. See http://taxthechurches.org/

"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation." -- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
-- Thomas Paine, (1737-1809), The Age of Reason,

It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
-- Thomas Paine,

Of all the tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst. Every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in, but this attempts a stride beyond the grave and seeks to pursue us into eternity.
-- Thomas Paine

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistant that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.

Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.

Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents.
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, December 3, 1813

Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires.-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, July 16, 1814

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson..Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law."
Thomas Jefferson -letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814

The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
Thomas Jefferson - to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns of several points, as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough deist"
Benjamin Franklin

Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative."

Governor Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself."
-Thomas Jefferson, in his private journal, Feb. 1800

[krabigirl]

180. yes, all of them.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

3. Since when has Reid become Jewish? Isn't he a Mormon? Glad the blogger walked out but he should have

called the priest out instead. That would have been the courageous thing to do.

[WinkyDink]

8. It was used as a segue into the priest's modern example.

[Angry Dragon]

4. That church should lose thier tax-exemption

[WiffenPoof]

6. Excellent...

I know that it took some courage. I'm proud of you.

-PLA

[geckosfeet]

7. I walked out of the catholic church 40 years ago and never looked back.

Hypocritical, lying, sexist, homophobic, child molesting bastards.

Present company excluded of course.

[mrmpa]

104. I walked out 37 years ago at the age of 17...........

I went to a catholic high school, where I remember the nuns talking about pro choice vs. pro life, but never proselytizing. I think I was angry over the fact that our parish paid for my older brother's tuition at the boy's high school, but gave nothing for the girls to attend a catholic high school.

I have almost a contempt for the catholic church, because I think that it can educate a person well all the way to a Ph.d, a medical degree or a law degree, but when it comes to matters of faith, they treat you like a child.

Don't get me going on fundamentalist churches, which, with their dogmas have a visceral hatred for all those that disagree with it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. I walked out 20 years ago

Also wrote a letter to the pastor about his sermon and how offensive it was.

Glad to see other Catholics doing the same thing.

[rustydog]

11. "Father, were you this vocal about priests grooming & molesting children?"

Or did you shut up and let the Holy Catholic Church secretly send a pedophile to an unsuspecting parish to rape those children for DECADES?

[Citizen Worker]

27. How soon we forget! Too bad the congregant didn't shout it out from the cheap seats.

[TomClash]

14. Amen

What you heard was the Sermon on the Cesspool.

[patrice]

15. Proof Positive that priest was lieing about tthe value of human life: No mentionof military spending

[UpInArms]

16. tax the shit of the churches - we could balance the budget on the Catholic crap alone

bleh

[Initech]

90. Not to mention these huge, 40,000 member mega-churches.

I'd love to see Rick Warren having to pay taxes on that $3 mil that he got just for asking.

[Pacifist Patriot]

142. Of course that might very well shut the doors of my weeny little UU congregation.

Which Rick Warren and ilk would love to see happen.

[krabigirl]

181. Well i also go to a UU, and one thing i don't like is when they talk politics.

Politics should be left at the door, not be preached from the pulpit.

[Pacifist Patriot]

183. I don't mind political talk from the pulpit provided it is...

clearly linked with our values, morals and ethics and is issue-based. I strive to minimize politics in my own sermons because my co-pastor has a tendency to over-do it and I think there should be some balance. Sometimes it is unavoidable though because current events often offer great illustrations for issues of spiritual maturity, social justice and ethical responsibility.

[krabigirl]

182. I agree. Do they even pay property taxes? Warren's campus alone could bring in much needed money.

for the city and state.

[robdogbucky]

17. Did anyone here see the recent movie, "Casino Jack" ?

I did last night and the portrayal of Jack Abramoff by Kevin Spacey was right on. The role religion plays in the dogma of the oppressive right was on display, even to the point of Abramoff, a devout Jew, kow-towing to the likes of Tom Delay, forced to hold hands in prayer to our Lord Jesus Christ. He hated doing it, but it was part and parcel of the money flow to the Pubs.

Religion has been degraded to the point of being like a used car lot.

Old worn out ideas being re-cycled to suckers at a price.

[bertman]

18. I would have been impressed if he had stood up and shouted that the priest

was lying. Walking out was the coward's way out.

[virgdem]

20. The best way to handle that situation..

He was right to walk out, as interrupting a service would have been rude and counter-productive. The way to do it is to go back to the Priest later on a tell him why he walked out and how uncomfortable the "political tirade" from the pulpit made him, and to point out that there is a time and place for everything, and that Church is not the place for politics.

[bluestate10]

23. Walking out quietly was the best option. Never going back should be the plan. nt

[IcyPeas]

24. amen virgdem... also...

kpete - show him the true facts. Priests should not lie. ummmm I think that's a sin. and don't even let us get started about priests.....

and most definitely churches shouldn't be involved in politics (even though we know they are)

I'm another ex-catholic.

[bertman]

114. The walking out solution has been tried again and again and is a failure.

The church is still slapping the 'faithful' in the face with this kind of bullshit yet the compliant supplicants sit silently because they don't want to be RUDE and COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.

No wonder our policies still reflect the mentality of the dark ages.

[Doctor_J]

148. Yes, the replies to your first response are terribly naive

Anyone who thinks all of this silent protest is accomplishing anything is now officially part of the problem

[bluestate10]

21. I honor your move. Please don't go back to that parish or contribute

money to any of it's causes.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. My dear old dad walked out over 70 years ago

none of his offspring have felt any need to walk back in.

p.s. <spelling flame> the word is lying not lieing </end flame>

[Flubadubya]

36. Re: spelling flame...

Also, there is no such word as "noone"... I absolutely loathe that so-called "word". It ALWAYS and ONLY two words... "no one".

[Monique1]

57. flubadubya

Maybe this is was a typo error? Don't make a mistake here because you will be publically castigated.

[Keith Bee]

25. Meh

Politics from the pulpit. Nothing new.

[rurallib]

26. Funny thing is, he was probably the only one listening to the sermon.

That was a joke, sort of. i would imagine 80% were paying NO attention to what the priest said. They are just there to put a check mark in the box to keep them out of hell.

Hope the poster realizes there is probably no church that isn't at least somewhat political.

[Exilednight]

29. If this is true, it violates several laws. But it doesn't surprise me. n/t

[Logical]

31. My whole family became atheists over about a 5 year period. Never been happier! n-t

[Arugula Latte]

39. Good for you all!

A belated welcome! :toast:

[Logical]

86. Thank you! And no guilt at all! :-)

[upi402]

32. End tax exempt status

Churches are propaganda bastions and business cartels. Make them pay like the rest, in the free market they espouse.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

34. I totally agree, but....

who in Congress is going to back that play right now? I really can only think of a few, and certainly not a legislation-passing majority.

[Volaris]

33. good for you

and I wanted to ask you (as a fellow Catholic) if you sense a kind of quiet(but very self-assured liberal) shift among the lay parishioners in America, that Rome is slow to catch on to...

(P.S.--My apologies to those here who have no interest in discussing matters of faith, I know to many of you it is tantamount to a discussion on Stamp Collecting when trying to reason our way through a budget agreement)

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

46. As a fellow Catholic in Oregon, when I sat in parish action

committee meetings that was attended by 10 to 12 priests from 10 different parishes, most, if not all were progressive liberals, anti war and for the common good. It's the conservative parishioners thats the problem.

[phasma ex machina]

125. My priest gets us to vicariously experience war as an Afghan or Iraqi citizen getting terrorized by

the Anglo-American war machine. The humble priests in my town's three parishes invited a Muslim speaker to talk shortly after 9-11. During today's sermon my priest explored the rebirth theme of the three readings. I've never seen the spectacle of a "fire and brimstone" priest damning people to hell.

[jwirr]

35. Good kpete. I also think that churches should pay taxes but if they

think they have a right to stick their noses into politics now imagine what they would think if they paid taxes.

I want to government to enforce the laws regarding tax exemption for churches. That priest broke the law by openly preaching politics. Of course the tax department would have a hell of a time enforcing the law on the entire Catholic Church body. So does the law allow for enforcement against one member church in a larger church body?

[Raksha]

41. K & R

[RagAss]

42. Anything Jesus Really Said Was Burned !!!!!. Anyone who repeated it was killed !!!

Wake the Fuck up !!!!!!

[pezDispenser]

120. wake the fuck up for sure

the story of Jesus has been told in numerous mythologies throughout history. Which version of Jesus are you referring to?

[RagAss]

185. I am referring to The Gospel of Thomas....burned by Constantine.

It's non-dual, Gnostic nature eliminated the need to place a hierarchy of men between God and the believers. This is not acceptable when you require wealth and a flock of fear-laden subjects to build a profitable myth..

[truedelphi]

44. Mentally, I walked out of Catholic Church services over Vietnam

That a priest could ask for prayers for the Armed Services members, and then talk about Jesus wanting Peace and Love, but the priest never seemed to be worried about the 600,000 people in Vietnam who had been made homeless by Kissinger advising Nixon to blow up the dikes, or the 4 million killed, or the one million Vietnamese that fled their nation, and on and on - that was the end of my being a Catholic.

My mom forced me to go to Church till I was seventeen, but once I graduated high school, I was so OUT of that church.

How can anyone accept the teachings of the organized Christian churches, when the first item of faith is believing that God created Woman out of Man's rib? I have never known of a person coming into the world that way, though I do know of many births where apparently the baby comes out of the womb of the woman.

[Uncle Joe]

45. Kicked and recommended for listening to your conscious.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[teamster633]

48. Back in late October 2004,

the same thing happened to me. There was a priest up there telling us that it was basically a sin to vote for a Democrat due to the whole "pro-life" thing. This, at a time when Little Boots was flagrantly violating almost every moral code I could think of. I, too, walked out. I sent a letter to the pastor and complained to the Pastoral Council hoping to hear some sort of disclaimer over the next few weeks from the pulpit. All I got was a weak apology from the priest in question. It was basically a Fox apology: 'so sorry you were offended by what I said'. I've never gone back. I've become convinced that if there is a God, no organized religion is capable of comprehending his/her essence.

[glinda]

49. Sad that others did not walk out also. They need to pay taxes. Good for you.

[Vincardog]

50. Good on ya

[calimary]

51. I did that too, years ago when the priest turned the sermon over to a guest speaker.

It was a visiting nun, clearly an expert on human sexuality. :sarcasm:

And sure enough, she launches into a speech about the evils of abortion and how the only real sexual relationship that's divinely approved is that of Jesus as the husband/lover of the Church. And that just brought TOO MANY weird images to the mind. Actually, my outrage turned to hilarity. I had to get up and leave for two reasons: feeling too indignant to continue rewarding their behavior with my presence at Mass, and to avoid exploding out loud with laughter.

When I got outside, I was pleasantly surprised to see two other moms who'd also just left - didn't like the politics in church and one of them, although more anti-choice, still thought the guest speaker was saying some very inappropriate things that had no place in church.

And I won't go back, and I stopped donating.

[rug]

52. That's not today's Gospel.

"Today's gospel was about the Jewish leaders lieing about Jesus, saying that he was demon possessed etc."

http://www.usccb.org/nab/041011.shtml

Gospel

Now a man was ill, Lazarus from Bethany,
the village of Mary and her sister Martha.
Mary was the one who had anointed the Lord with perfumed oil
and dried his feet with her hair;
it was her brother Lazarus who was ill.
So the sisters sent word to him saying,
“Master, the one you love is ill.”
hen Jesus heard this he said,
“This illness is not to end in death,
but is for the glory of God,
that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”
Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
So when he heard that he was ill,
he remained for two days in the place where he was.
Then after this he said to his disciples,
“Let us go back to Judea.”
The disciples said to him,
“Rabbi, the Jews were just trying to stone you,
and you want to go back there?”
Jesus answered,
“Are there not twelve hours in a day?
If one walks during the day, he does not stumble,
because he sees the light of this world.
But if one walks at night, he stumbles,
because the light is not in him.”
He said this, and then told them,
“Our friend Lazarus is asleep,
but I am going to awaken him.”
So the disciples said to him,
“Master, if he is asleep, he will be saved.”
But Jesus was talking about his death,
while they thought that he meant ordinary sleep.
So then Jesus said to them clearly,
“Lazarus has died.
And I am glad for you that I was not there,
that you may believe.
Let us go to him.”
So Thomas, called Didymus, said to his fellow disciples,
“Let us also go to die with him.”

When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus
had already been in the tomb for four days.
Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, only about two miles away.
And many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary
to comfort them about their brother.
When Martha heard that Jesus was coming,
she went to meet him;
but Mary sat at home.
Martha said to Jesus,
“Lord, if you had been here,
my brother would not have died.
But even now I know that whatever you ask of God,
God will give you.”
Jesus said to her,
“Your brother will rise.”
Martha said to him,
“I know he will rise,
in the resurrection on the last day.”
Jesus told her,
“I am the resurrection and the life;
whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,
and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
Do you believe this?”
She said to him, “Yes, Lord.
I have come to believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God,
the one who is coming into the world.”

When she had said this,
she went and called her sister Mary secretly, saying,
“The teacher is here and is asking for you.”
As soon as she heard this,
she rose quickly and went to him.
For Jesus had not yet come into the village,
but was still where Martha had met him.
So when the Jews who were with her in the house comforting her
saw Mary get up quickly and go out,
they followed her,
presuming that she was going to the tomb to weep there.
When Mary came to where Jesus was and saw him,
she fell at his feet and said to him,
“Lord, if you had been here,
my brother would not have died.”
When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come with her weeping,
he became perturbed and deeply troubled, and said,
“Where have you laid him?”
They said to him, “Sir, come and see.”
And Jesus wept.
So the Jews said, “See how he loved him.”
But some of them said,
“Could not the one who opened the eyes of the blind man
have done something so that this man would not have died?”

So Jesus, perturbed again, came to the tomb.
It was a cave, and a stone lay across it.
Jesus said, “Take away the stone.”
Martha, the dead man’s sister, said to him,
“Lord, by now there will be a stench;
he has been dead for four days.”
Jesus said to her,
“Did I not tell you that if you believe
you will see the glory of God?”
So they took away the stone.
And Jesus raised his eyes and said,
“Father, I thank you for hearing me.
I know that you always hear me;
but because of the crowd here I have said this,
that they may believe that you sent me.”
And when he had said this,
He cried out in a loud voice,
“Lazarus, come out!”
The dead man came out,
tied hand and foot with burial bands,
and his face was wrapped in a cloth.
So Jesus said to them,
“Untie him and let him go.”

Now many of the Jews who had come to Mary
and seen what he had done began to believe in him.

or

The sisters of Lazarus sent word to Jesus, saying,
“Master, the one you love is ill.”
When Jesus heard this he said,
“This illness is not to end in death,
but is for the glory of God,
that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”
Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.
So when he heard that he was ill,
he remained for two days in the place where he was.
Then after this he said to his disciples,
+Let us go back to Judea.”

When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus
had already been in the tomb for four days.
When Martha heard that Jesus was coming,
she went to meet him;
but Mary sat at home.
Martha said to Jesus,
“Lord, if you had been here,
my brother would not have died.
But even now I know that whatever you ask of God,
God will give you.”
Jesus said to her,
“Your brother will rise.”
Martha said,
“I know he will rise,
in the resurrection on the last day.”
Jesus told her,
“I am the resurrection and the life;
whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,
and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.
Do you believe this?”
She said to him, “Yes, Lord.
I have come to believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God,
the one who is coming into the world.”

He became perturbed and deeply troubled, and said,
“Where have you laid him?”
They said to him, “Sir, come and see.”
And Jesus wept.
So the Jews said, “See how he loved him.”
But some of them said,
“Could not the one who opened the eyes of the blind man
have done something so that this man would not have died?”

So Jesus, perturbed again, came to the tomb.
It was a cave, and a stone lay across it.
Jesus said, “Take away the stone.”
Martha, the dead man’s sister, said to him,
“Lord, by now there will be a stench;
he has been dead for four days.”
Jesus said to her,
“Did I not tell you that if you believe
you will see the glory of God?”
So they took away the stone.
And Jesus raised his eyes and said,
“Father, I thank you for hearing me.
I know that you always hear me;
but because of the crowd here I have said this,
that they may believe that you sent me.”
And when he had said this,
He cried out in a loud voice,
“Lazarus, come out!”
The dead man came out,
tied hand and foot with burial bands,
and his face was wrapped in a cloth.
So Jesus said to them,
“Untie him and let him go.”

Now many of the Jews who had come to Mary
and seen what he had done began to believe in him.

Bouncy ball.

[phasma ex machina]

128. Damn the facts, this thread's about people getting their hate on. nt

[Dorian Gray]

137. Yep

This was the gospel yesterday. We had a great homily at the end of it.

[Hangingon]

166. Thanks

I thought I heard something else yesterday. I wonder - as I always do in these stories - if the events really happened.

[IamK]

53. Does the church have a name or is this made up BS? n/t

[timtom]

54. At my church, sermons, sunday school classes, and any

other activities NEVER get political.

Never.

We're a pretty liberal Christian church. But, we don't talk politics.

[phasma ex machina]

131. +1 same here. nt

[Blue_In_AK]

55. Speaking of Catholics and the priesthood...

http://www.adn.com/2011/04/09/1801944/frontline-documents-cahtolic-churchs.html

'Frontline' Documents Catholic Church's apologies for abuse

Bishop Donald Kettler, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese in Fairbanks, sat in a tiny meeting room in the Yup'ik village of St. Michael.

"I've come this evening just to, to hear what you'd like to tell me, or what you'd like to say to me," said Kettler, who oversees a northern and western Alaska diocese more than three times the size of Italy. A grey V-neck sweater framed his priest's collar and soft features.

"If there's something that you'd like to tell me, please, uh, you know. Do that."

About 10 villagers stared back at the Bishop in silence. A man and woman sat holding hands next to a window. Someone had closed the blinds.

Finally, a middle-aged man named Ben Andrews spoke.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.adn.com/2011/04/09/1801944/frontline-documents-cahtolic-churchs.html#ixzz1J9XGWJDn



Powerful stuff.

[humbled_opinion]

56. Catholic Liberals have a tough row to hoe....

Catholic doctrine of infallibility basically creates a moral dillema in catholics. That is exactly why priests can get away with preaching political rhetoric from the pulpit....

[trud]

60. you didn't say anything?

How about standing up and saying the guy's a liar? Otherwise people probably thought you had to go to the bathroom or something.

[rasputin1952]

61. I walked out of several churches in the past...

Once, at a Baptist Church, I actually said as I was I leaving, "Your realize you are going to hell, right?" (The sermon was on how Jesus hated Muslims).

I no longer go to any church...but I try to live by the better aspects called for in religion...tolerance, compassion, empathy, caring for the poor, the sick, the hungry. I can't save the world, but I can make my little corner just a little better...and I don't need some pompous ass to tell me how to live my life and certainly not "justify" hatred by bastardizing the religion.

[catrose]

62. Bravo.

I walked out on the war on Christmas. I didn't walk on Obamacare on Easter last year because the logistics would have made it excessively disruptive, but I wrote a letter when I got home explaining why I wouldn't be back to church. Any church.

[Hamlette]

63. should have done more

walking away in silence doesn't solve anything...except for the author

[MichiganVote]

64. No offense but...no one in the Catholic hierarchy is ignorant of what a lie is or is not.

And in consideration, I highly doubt that Schumer or Reid have buggered little kids or adolescents or otherwise hidden the fat fucks who have.

So good on you. But now, take it a step further and make Father What's His Horseshit eat his words. He is flat out wrong about any abortion in the country receiving federal money UNLESS it is a 'boni fide' medical emergency AND NOT being done in a Catholic hospital.

[lastone]

65. raised in the church

and fled as soon as I could - lies upon lies kept coming and the inconsistencies were too much to bare. all church's keep people scared and divided, fuck organized religion.

[alfredo]

66. K&R Walked out of my church over the Civil Rights position

of our church. They didn't want blacks in their church. I was in the process of realizing I believed in God because it was expected of me, not that I actually believed. Leaving church, was leaving their expectations.

[Gman]

67. I walked out once for very similar reasons

and came back in after the homily was over. In this case, our priest said we should all be on our knees doing penance for "allowing" Obama to be elected. BUT, I waited for our priest in the vestibule after mass and told him about my very active support of Obama in 08 and the very same things in the DK post and more. He was so worked up he said, "I don't care about the poor or homeless. I care about abortion!" I said, "Father, I know you don't mean that!" A couple of weeks later he baptized my granddaughter and later told me, "Pray for me." and I have. We talked again more later after the heat of the moment was a few week past and he had thought about what I said and was pondering it. So I do think I did make some progress. I suspect he has an idea that I was right but he won't just admit it because he was becoming conflicted.

He was only with us a year. Several of us started meeting, signed a letter to the archdiocese and he voluntarily moved on. Conflictingly, he went to Peru to do missionary work with poor indigenous indians.

[tiny elvis]

68. hell, i got thrown out of church cause i talk about diddy wa diddy too much

church means so little that MRobDC would reject it for politics, leaving his fellows to writhe in the hell of ignorance and confusion
is MRobDC so alienated and self absorbed?
does he think leaving the burger king on 1st street to eat at the burger king on 2nd street has some significance?

[Canuckistanian]

69. My wife walked out of her Catholic church

When the priest announced a fund drive for the unemployed MEN in the parish. Not families, just MEN.

[MasonJar]

70. I hope the priest noticed that yuu left. Perhaps you should let him know

appalled you were at his sermon and how glad you were to attend a good one. People with those kind of prejudices need to be called to account. Jesus would have done it.

[RiverStone]

98. Second that!

He needs to be called out on his hypocritical judgmental bullshit

[Maraya1969]

72. Why don't people stand up and speak the truth in church? I

don't go to church now but swear that had I been in that church I would have stood up and told that Priest that 98% of Planned Parenthood money went to medical care services like cancer screening for men and women. I probably would have pointed out that they were lying either knowingly or unknowingly.

[DesertFlower]

73. K&R. i was raised catholic but

gave up my religion in my early 20s. i'm now 69. so now it's up to 98%.

i e-mailed senator kyl the other day. told him to check his facts before he spreads lies. he said it was 90% abortions. i told him it's 3%.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

74. Too bad he didn't SPEAK UP LOUDLY before leaving

That would have been even MORE courageous.

and given those who were veering on discomfort the permission to admit it.

Light a lamp--- in public.

[Ken Burch]

75. That took guts.

Let us know whether or not they give you communion next time.

[immoderate]

76. If you lie down with fleas...

The government supports this crap.

--imm

[Vinca]

77. If churches get involved in politics, it's time to send the IRS after them.

[JDPriestly]

78. First, a friend of mine who is an expert on Roman Law thoroughly debunked

the Biblical account of the trial of Jesus. The story in the Bible is false. You can take it from there. And if that is absolutely false, impossible, never happened, where does that leave the Catholic religion or most other (not all -- some rely on historical facts) Christian religions?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

85. The gospels are a bunch of stories by forgers.

This is news to you?

I took a couple of religon courses in college at a Presbyterian university and found out decades ago that it was put together by Emperor Constantine at the Council of Nicaea. Just to oppress people and consolidate his political power. There is no historical evidence that Jesus existed. Christianity is a syncretic religion with nothing original in it. It all came from earlier pagan cults. There is no difference between Jesus and Mithra, Apollo and Osiris.

If you want to know what really happened, get "Asimov's Guide to the Bible" in two volumes.

[JDPriestly]

122. Asimov's Guide to the Bible

Sounds fascinating.

[madrchsod]

93. yup...the evidence is`t there for the tale.

[mwb970]

155. It's almost not worth "debunking" Biblical accounts, is it?

I guess when we're done with that, we could "debunk" Alice In Wonderland next. I'm sure scholars could prove that rabbits can't talk, cats can't just disappear, etc.

[RainDog]

79. report them to the irs, please

because they should be paying taxes as a political organization.

[WillyT]

80. K & R !!!

:kick:

[RoccoR5955]

81. This church needs its tax exemption pulled

For being partisan. It's the law. You should get the statement on the record, and report it to the IRS!

[yellowwood]

82. Just Keep; walking

It gives you such a sense of freedom to walk out and keep going. Never look back. You will turn into a block of salt.

[russspeakeasy]

92. Yup. Keep walking.

[jillan]

83. What makes me ill is they are brainwashing people.

[MissDeeds]

87. It is always good to stand for one's principles

No matter how uncomfortable it may make you or others. Without our principles or values, we are nothing.

K&R

[Initech]

89. These people seriously are no better than the Taliban.

[louslobbs]

91. One does not need organized political worship and brainwashing sprinkled in with their organized

religion, to share with the organized congregation, (the six day sinners), a loving and caring higher power and spirituality. One does not need the rigid rule of an organization, a religiously political organization, to bring peace into their lives and to help share the gift of friendship, love, sharing and caring. I walked out years ago, have never looked back, and I have never been more loving, caring, spiritual and peaceful from withing, than I am today. I have integrity and morals without having to follow a rigid book that some interpret in ways that seem unforgiving and ugly. Also, if one is going to adhere to a book of "religious" teachings, then shouldn't one adhere to all of those teachings and not just pick and choose those parts within, that they will follow, while ignoring or dismissing others completely because it might make them seem crazier than they already appear to be? So, for those who get peace, love, caring, sharing, compassion, spirituality and kindness from organized religion, I'm all for it, and I'm glad that it works for you. For those who get ideological politics sprinkled in with their weekly dose of organized "religious" teachings, or anything other than teachings of love, caring, kindness, sharing, compassion, spirituality and peace from their weekly, "organized", religious gatherings, then you really have no religion, you belong to a type of dictating, "religious" cult, and I feel sorry for the whole flock of you. And for any lurking sheep who want to scream and lecture about "hell", I say only this, Flock You! lol
Lou

[Lifelong Protester]

94. I walked out before the 2008 election

Can't stand the hypocrisy of the church wanting you to believe in "pro-life" candidates, then while you are in church, having someone put a George W. Bush propaganda piece under your windshield wiper blade.

Really?

I am now one of the unchurched. Not unbelieving, but unchurched for sure.

[Aerows]

96. Well said, and well done K&R

[live love laugh]

97. They need to know why you left to at least give them a chance to change

though I doubt that they will.

[joanbarnes]

99. If they want to spew politics from the pulpit, TAX THEM!

[me b zola]

100. Recommended

This may seem off topic, but I just today was calling a Catholic church to have them assist me to get my bio-father to help me find my bio mother and brothers and sisters. Ugh. I asked for a Jesuit, cause they are the mystical of the Catholic faith, the ones more in love with the message of Christ than the idea that God is a hateful being that will strike us down. Anywhose, todays adventures did not end well for me. The priest took great pride in telling me that there were no Jesuits withing 300 miles, and continued to mock me within 2 minutes of my phone call. Ugh. Yeah, why I left the Catholic church.

Just in case any one gives a fuck, i miss the Catholic church...there used to be so much good there. There used to be the love and passion of Christ...

[newspeak]

159. those who miss the ceremony aspects of mass

the episcopal church offer ceremony and liberality. I am a reformed Catholic. I once lived in a small town in Utah and the hispanic community there asked the catholic priest to do one service in spanish--the priest refused--so they went to the episcopal church and the priest automatically said yes. So now the hispanic catholics go to the episcopal church because the priest apparently couldn't give a damn about his parishioners.

[walerosco]

101. good for you

I remember one of our neighbours walking out of mass because the stupid priest spend the whole sermon whining about her daughters mini skirt

[benld74]

102. The Gospel today was about Lazarus and how sin binds people,,

in ways they do not fully comprehend and how believing in God removes such sin allowing one to be free once more.
BUT to have a priest preach politucs FROM the pulpit is reprehensible! I would like to know WHERE this occurred?

[Brigid]

103. Consider contacting the office of the bishop or archbishop, as the case may be.

He may not be pleased to learn of such blatant politicking during a Sunday homily by this priest. My parish priest would never do this.

[HDPaulG]

105. Contact the IRS!!!!

[Zoigal]

106. congratulations, Mr RobDC..if only more people would show the

guts you did. Hopefully, the priest noticed. Please follow up with
a messages to him,his bosses, and the IRS.....z

[Lefta Dissenter]

107. Massive K&R (n/t)

thank you.

[rhett o rick]

109. R&K

[IamK]

110. THIS STORY IS RACIST BS UNTIL THEY NAME THE CHURCH.... n/t.

just name the church so the story can be verified... its not that hard 2nd request...

[fishwax]

126. why racist? n/t

[RedCloud]

111. Mighty Hercules awaits you. Free wine too!

[davidinalameda]

112. I guess people forget that Dr. King was a minister

and the civil rights movement was really started and led by ministers

and why would anyone be surprised that a Catholic priest is preaching against abortion

the Catholic Church is one of the leading voices against abortion

[harun]

116. The issue isn't the abortion position, it is the lying. Also calling out politicians by

name to advocate or oppose them.

The content of the sermon was political, not religious. As others have stated that should be a red flag for people on both sides of the issue.

[provis99]

117. and the Southern Baptist Church was racist and segregationist.

So what's your point?

[davidinalameda]

168. and what's your point

for every good church, there are bad ones?

whether you like it or not, churches still continue to play an important role in American life

[Raster]

158. Abortion is not the issue. CHOICE and free will to make that CHOICE is the issue.

Any entity that would restrict a woman's right to make that CHOICE is wrong. And that a tax-free religious entity would use the power of their pulpit to restrict that choice is an ABOMINATION!

[davidinalameda]

167. following the tenets of a religion is choice

you either follow the rules set forth or you don't

I can't believe that there are still liberals who belong to the Catholic Church

in my eyes, they're worse than the priests who preach against abortion and same sex marriages; it's their money that go to fund the Church and its various crusades against liberal issues

[Raster]

170. APPLAUSE! I completely agree. Any liberals or progressives that support - IN ANY WAY - these...

...clerics and their edicts from Rome do as much harm as the clerics themselves.

[TxVietVet]

115. I've had the same experience here in East Texas.

In 1987, I walked out of the Catholic Church for the last time. I didn't need a lesson in politics in a place I was seeking spiritual comfort and guidance.
I moved back to the Houston area a few months back. As we were out looking for housing in the rural area north of Houston, I turned on a radio station with a pulpit pimp giving his lesson of the day. Glamorizing the days of the Civil War and the spritual connection between Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. He talked endlessly about how things were going and their faith and on and on and on. I could go to his church on Sunday to get the final solution to all my problems like Lee and Jackson did by believing the same way as this pulpit pimp was preaching.

They don't want to minister the poor, the infirm, the downtrodden. They want money and power, just like their conservanazi partners.

"WHEN FASCISM COMES TO AMERICA, IT WILL BE WRAPPED IN THE FLAG CARRYING A CROSS." Sinclair Lewis.

[Skittles]

134. TxVietVet, you are AWESOME

yes INDEED :hi:

[Liberty Belle]

118. Also leave note in collection basket stating you are taking your $$$ elsewhere.

[tsuki]

119. Write the diocese. nt

[TatonkaJames]

121. I walked out in 1973

When a priest spoke about Richard Nixon. I knew then they were going to insert political
B/S since then and that was it fro me.

[Tx4obama]

123. It would have been pretty awesome if someone had shouted out "You Lie!" n/t

[niyad]

127. I walked out decades ago, after hearing the drunk (excuse me, priest) going on and on

about the papal encyclical on contraception "humanae vitae"


all these decades later, we are still fighting the same damned battles, and those who hate women are getting bolder and more hateful by the minute.

[Piasladic]

129. good for you

That took guts. 

[gmudem]

130. Churches should no longer be relevant in modern society

And while what that priest said was offensive, I'm sure he said plenty of other stuff that doesn't make any sense at all yet people believe without question. The sooner humanity leaves religion behind the better off we'll be.

[SemperEadem]

135. I wonder what would happen

if someone used their cell phone to record him making this political speech from the pulpit and sent it to the IRS and demanded that the Catholic church begins paying taxes.

[dotymed]

136. As an Episcopalian I have been lucky.

I have almost entirely agreed with my differing Priests over the years. Not much politically unless it is about helping the least of us and humanitarian sermons. Lately, I have been attending a Nazarene Church with my Daughter and future son-in-law, Theres is a "Church of Recovery" reaching out to many addicts, from alcoholics to sex addicts... For me it is too Charismatic and the first time I hear a sermon on a subject that I feel marginalizes anyone, I hope I am strong enough to "just leave" and not voice my outrage. Hopefully that will not happen, but at times already, I get a "cult feel" that I chalk-up to the "charismatic" leadership, which I have always distrusted. It IS great to be with my non-drinking Daughter, but I believe in moderation in all things, even relgion....

[Iwillnevergiveup]

145. Same here, Dotymed

I was raised Lutheran, but attended church pretty sporadically as an adult. About 10 years ago,on a Sunday morning, read about a very liberal Episcopalian church not that far away. It highlighted the rector who had been there over 25 years. He had gone to jail a couple of times for demonstrating against the Vietnam War and had long performed same-sex marriages. I went that very morning and never looked back - joined enthusiastically. And met many disillusioned former Catholics!

K&R for an illuminating thread.

[ck4829]

139. "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." - Ben Franklin

[WVRICK13]

140. When You Allow A Cult Like

the Catholic church to rule your life these things happen.

[Search4Justice]

141. Another confirmation for my atheism.

Thanks.

[TurningPointTime]

143. I'd look into the Methodist church

if I was you, Glenn Beck think's they're a bunch of evil socialists...So they got that going for them.

[orbitalman]

144. K & R x 1000

[OwnedByFerrets]

147. Thank you!

[Not Me]

149. Good for you. I did the same thing in 1994

One of the larger employers in the city I was living decided that it was time to offer domestic partner benefits to its workforce. In this case they were extending it to any domestic partner relationship, including straight, unmarried couples.
The priest began spewing a very hateful diatribe about how this is pandering to the gays, and that it is going to be the downfall of society as we know it.

I got up, and walked out. And I was seated fairly close to the front of the large church, so at least 1000 people saw me.

Interestingly, the company named (of which I was an employee at the time) found after the first year of offering the benefit that 84% of those who participated were straight and 16% were gay relationships.

[brendan120678]

150. "(Sunday's) gospel was about the Jewish leaders lieing about Jesus"...

No, it wasn't.

[Rambis]

151. They passed a special collection plate when Quayle was running

It was the anti choice plate and the money went to DQ election. I was there for my niece's christening I won't go into my personal stories with the catholic church. I will say I wish I did believe because there is comfort in ritual and a haven from reality.

[ZombieHorde]

153. Is that even legal? nt

[Rambis]

164. tax exempt status should be revoked

but molesting children isn't legal but the cover it up so.....

[mwb970]

154. I walked out of church in 1967 and never walked back in.

I had one great Sunday School teacher when I was in high school (he imparted life lessons without ever once mentioning God or the Bible) but the rest was just a waste of time. I stopped going the moment my parents stopped making me go.

[truckin]

156. I walked out about 6 years ago when a Priest tried to rally the

parishioners to fight against a Civil Union law for Gays that was about to be passed in our state. He kept repeating "for the children, we must do this for the children". It still makes my blood boil.

Anyway, I walked out and attended an Episcopal church that same day and have been there ever since. We have the same ceremony as the Catholic church without most of the BS. It was one of the best things I ever did.

[The Backlash Cometh]

157. We should have an organization to turn these P.A.C.s in.

[slackmaster]

160. Our political dialogue has degraded to "killing babies" vs. "killing poor, disabled, and elderly"

And not addressing real problems.

Churches should lose their tax-exempt status if they aren't willing to stay out of partisan bickering.

[nichomachus]

161. Walking out is futile -- instead

the best idea, if you are offended, is to simply stand -- stand in the aisle if you have to in order to be noticed. It's the best way to protest. If you walk out, they'll just think you have to pee or something.

I've done it. Often, curiosity will get the best of the preacher and he'll ask why you're standing. Tell him -- then walk out.

[colorado_ufo]

163. Bless you!

And call the IRS on this priest.

[mimitabby]

165. i walked out in 1968 and never went back

welcome to the club.

[onehandle]

169. What specific church Catholic Church was it and who was the Priest?

I will wait patiently for an answer.

[slackmaster]

176. The answer is in the very first sentence of the page linked to in the OP

HTH

[onehandle]

178. No it isn't.

You probably think 'Catholic Church' answers my question of what specific church it was.

I meant the EXACT church.

Question edited.

[goobergoober01]

171. GOOD FOR YOU... but....

you should take the time to say goodbye to the speaker.... after the service.... not in a confrontational way.... but out of respect---

you respect the church
you respect god
you respect your opinion

there is nothing wrong in stopping by the church the next day, finding him, and letting him know how he has chased you from his parish,
how he lies and supports lies
how he leaves out all of the other subjects which should be spoken about

who knows..... he might learn something FROM YOU.... and wouldn't THAT make the world a better place

[hifiguy]

172. "Tax the churches;

tax the businesses owned by the churches."

- Frank Zappa

[krabigirl]

179. good for the author for walking out!

[tblue37]

187. S/he shouldn't have walked out quietly. People have got to start challenging these lies. nt

[onehandle]

189. Maybe S/he should have told us the specific church and priest?

Maybe?