Probation in murder of man whose dog urinated on lawn

[RamboLiberal]

A University Park grandfather who gunned down a dog owner after the man’s pet urinated on his lawn escaped a prison term Wednesday when a Will County judge sentenced him to four years of probation.

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Funches, the father of three young children, was walking his dog in the 500 block of Landau Road in the far south suburb when his pet wandered onto Clements’ yard and relieved itself.

Clements confronted him about the dog’s actions and at one point took a .45-caliber pistol out of his pocket.

But Clements didn’t fire the weapon until after Funches cursed at him, then punched him in the face, according to testimony during his October trial.

Clements told police he shot Funches once in the abdomen because he feared the younger man would harm him.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/3066589-418/clements-funches-dog-murder-actions.html

There's a discussion in the gungeon or Guns forum on this case that started before the sentencing. I'll post the link on edit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x352188

[hlthe2b]

1. OMG, this makes me so damned angry

and our "gunners" can come crucify me if they want. I won't respond. But, this IS the kind of thing that will happen when guns are always at the 'ready'.... :mad:

Damn it all.

[kctim]

4. It is pointless to "crucify" those who live in fear

[Stevenmarc]

2. No, Man gets probation for killing a man who assaulted him

[frylock]

15. he brandished a weapon in a threatening manner..

i would've stomped his fucking head in.

[Stevenmarc]

18. if only

[TexasObserver]

32. That was apparently the same idea the deceased had.

[RamboLiberal]

3. Here's a bit more on the case

In declining to send Clements to jail, Will County Judge Daniel Rozak noted the episode was Clements' first contact with the legal system in his 69 years.

He also said the slaying wasn't about a dog urinating on a lawn, but "about your reaction ... to being yelled at, pushed and punched in the face by a 23-year-old man"

The Will County state's attorney's office, which had asked for jail time, indicated it would not appeal the sentence. "He (Rozak) is an excellent judge and we respect his decision," prosecutors said in a statement.

After Funches cursed at him, Clements pulled out a .45-caliber handgun and put it back in his pocket. Soon after, Funches punched Clements once in the face. Clements said Funches was standing still when he pulled out his gun and fatally shot him.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/12/man-gets-xx-years-in-dog-lawn-murder.html

Funches, the father of three young children, was walking his dog in the 500 block of Landau Road in the far south suburb when his pet wandered onto Clements’ yard and relieved itself.

Clements confronted him about the dog’s actions and at one point took a .45-caliber pistol out of his pocket.

But Clements didn’t fire the weapon until after Funches cursed at him, then punched him in the face, according to testimony during his October trial.

Clements told police he shot Funches once in the abdomen because he feared the younger man would harm him

http://www.suntimes.com/3066589-417/clements-funches-dog-murder-actions.html

[TexasObserver]

33. When keepin' it real goes wrong.

23 year old attacks armed 69 year old on 69 year old man's property.

[JVS]

37. Jesus, what a couple of assholes.

[kctim]

5. Probation? For what?

[hlthe2b]

7. Please don't ever move to my neighborhood with that attitude.

I have no desire to live in the Wild Wild West with every neighbor ready to shoot each other for the slightest transgression. Even those old western towns of old, made the gunslingers leave turn in their guns before heading to the town limits or saloon. Geebus.

[Riftaxe]

13. It's not even safe to go around punching senior citizens

in the face these days!!!...Except, apparently in your neighborhood.

[frylock]

16. the guy pulled a fucking gun on him!

you don't think he was within his rights to defend himself?

[shanti]

25. if someone

pulled a gun on me, i would back away. apparently, that was old dude's intention, as he did just show it at first.

[TexasObserver]

34. No, he wasn't within his rights. He was a trespasser.

He should have left, but he had to try to teach the old man a lesson, and his pride cost him his life.

[northernlights]

42. he threatened the guy who pulled a gun on him. you don't think the old guy had a right to defend

himself?

It's really simple. You have dogs (I have 2), you try to prevent them from defecating on other people's property. And if you fail to prevent it (and sometimes you will because dogs will be dogs), then you *apologize.* You don't throw a tantrum and terrorize an upset property owner.

If only because yes, some property owners have guns. Some property owners may be trigger happy.

Say you're driving in a parking lot. You accidentally nick somebody's car. They yell at you. Are you really going to yell back and threaten them for daring to be upset that you damaged their car? Ever hear of road rage.

People need to have some common sense, as well as a dose of respect.

[quickesst]

26. 23 year old man shoving.....

...and punching a 69 year old man after he put the weapon back in is pocket, you would welcome into your neighborhood? What was that you said? Oh yeah, "Geebus". Thanks.

[kctim]

27. Yea

Threatening, bullying and assaulting are ALWAYS "slight transgressions," when they happen to somebody else.

[SwampG8r]

31. is that history or western movie stuff?

[TexasObserver]

35. That was Tombstone and Unforgiven, not real life in the West.

[SwampG8r]

40. i kinda felt so

if the west was like they make it in movies......
people act like a western is a documentary

[onehandle]

6. Crazed loon who pulled a gun over a dog peeing on his lawn gets probation. nt

[northernlights]

8. no. crazed loon who shot man who punched him in the face gets probation

the title is very misleading. one might even suspect deliberately so.

Guess what. If any one of my neighbors punched me in the face for any reason, I'd pull a gun on them too. If I had a gun.

[frylock]

17. if anyone of my neighbors pulled a gun on me..

he'd get a lot more than a punch in the face.

[RamboLiberal]

20. I'm amazed at all the tough talk here of stomping a man with a gun

As both a martial artist and a CCW holder I know the guy with the gun is usually going to win the fight unless you are really damned skilled at gun disarms.

I sure as hell would try not to escalate the situation by punching someone with a gun no matter their age.

[Stevenmarc]

21. Yes it appears that some are vying for a Darwin Award

[NashVegas]

23. I'm Guessing

There are a number of competitive street cyclists in this thread.

[frylock]

22. the guy got a shot in..

he should've finished the old man off before he got plugged. but the point i'm trying to make here is that everyone wants to defend the guy with the gun, i guess because of his age. did telling the old man to fuck off warrant having a gun drawn on him?

[sendero]

28. On his own fucking property?

You god damned right it did. The asshole got what he had coming.

If you are on MY PROPERTY and I tell you to skedoodle and show you my piece, you better not double down by taking a swing at me, you will lose.

[Paladin]

30. Congrats. Your Post Takes Today's Mindless Testosterone Trophy.

Kindly stay the hell out of my neighborhood......

[sendero]

44. The mindless testosterone..

... happened when an idiot on someone else's property decided to hit someone with a gun.

[frylock]

43. you've got some serious issues if you're prepared to kill someone because of a dog..

pissing on your lawn. have a wonderful, fear-filled life.

[sendero]

45. It wasn't because of a dog..

... it was because of an assault.

I love how some idiots can distill out all of the details they don't like to make a point.

The idiot HIT A MAN HOLDING A GUN ON HIS OWN PROPERTY.

This is what we call "precipitating his own death".

[TexasObserver]

39. There's a lesson to the wise in this event.

If one is young and wants to grow old, one shouldn't make stupid mistakes - such as attacking a man known to have a gun, particularly when in the wrong and on his property.

[TexasObserver]

38. That was the dead man's plan, too.

[northernlights]

41. Don't threaten people and they won't pull guns on you. It's reeelly very simple. I have 2 dogs...

when I'm walking them, I don't let them pee or poop on the neighbor's lawns.

If one of them did and a neighbor complained I'd APOLOGIZE for my dog's behavior. I wouldn't yell abuse at him. The simple fact is nobody's dog, however much they may love them, has a right to indiscriminately crap on their neighbor's lawns.

Do they do it? Of course. They're dogs. You can't control them every instant and sometimes they do something they aren't supposed to. That does not justify treating the property owner like dirt.

A lawn may be a trifle to you. But you don't know what it means to the person who tends it. It might be his only bit of turf...something he worked for his whole fucking life.

None of us really appreciates being crapped on. And letting your dog crap on somebody else's property -- and then throwing a temper tantrum when they complain about it -- is effectively crapping on that person, by proxy.

[TexasObserver]

36. Crazed loon with peeing dog and bad attitude attacks old man and dies.

He should have apologized, promised not to do it again, and left.

But no. He had to get physical, and it cost him his life.

[closeupready]

9. I was appalled, and then I read the details posted above.

In light of those, I think this sentence was appropriate.

[Pavulon]

10. Before the Drama. The man was 70 his attacker 23

punching an old man in the face may have been a very bad idea. Without reading the entire case dont have a opinion on the sentence. I believe "dont start shit wont be shit" applies here.

Avoiding the situation would have been better, and it appears they were both in the wrong from the outcome.

[sendero]

29. That is a fair assessment..

... it would have been better of the gunholder to have perhaps tried to defuse the situation but the truth is we can't really know who is most at fault here without a video of the incident because nuances are very important.

Based on what we DO know, I think the sentence is fair.

[timo]

11. not to bright

first if I yell at you for letting your dog piss in my yard, and you come out and get sooooo confrontational that I feel the need to pull a pistol, dont let your alligator mind overload your humingbird ass by punching me and not expect to catch a dose in center mass.

If some one gets squirrely and pulls a gun, thats not the time to start feeling scrappy and try and start a fist fight...stupid is as stupid does!!

[old mark]

12. I don't know how old the grandfather (shooter) was, but if someone

younger and stronger, and on my property punches me in the face after he sees I have a handgun, I'd shoot him, too...And I'd get a better lawyer and walk away.


mark

[lpbk2713]

14. Big RNC donor?

The best justice money can buy. :eyes:

[Raine]

19. This is what happens when civility goes by the wayside

this whole thing could have been avoided if both sides (o even just one of them) had responded to the situation in a polite way. The first guy could've said "Please don't let your dog pee on my lawn", the other guy could've said "I'm sorry it won't happen again" ... end of story. :think:

[NaturalHigh]

24. A bit of wisdom I heard once...

Never pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll probably just kill you.

Mr. Funches assaulted a senior citizen. No sympathy for him, but I'm sorry for his family.