Charles Clements Gets PROBATION For Murder: Fatally Shot Man After Dog Urinated In His Yard

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Charles Clements Gets PROBATION For Murder: Fatally Shot Man After Dog Urinated In His Yard

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/29/charles-clements-gets-pro_n_802407.html



A grandfather from suburban University Park was sentenced to four years of probation Wednesday for the fatal shooting of a 23-year-old man whose dog had urinated in his yard.

Charles Clements, 69, a former Marine who took great pride in his lawn, could have been sentenced to 20 years in prison for the incident, but Judge Daniel J. Rozak told the courtroom that the incident was not about dog urine on a lawn, the Chicago Tribune reports.

On May 9, Joshua Funches was walking his dog in the 500 block of Landau Road in the south suburb when his dog wandered into Clements' yard and relieved itself. Clements confronted Funches, and the 23-year-old pushed and punched Clements before a weapon was drawn.

The Chicago Sun-Times reports:

Clements didn't fire the weapon until after Funches cursed at him, then punched him in the face, according to testimony during his October trial.

Clements told police he shot Funches once in the abdomen because he feared the younger man would harm him.

"This is not justice," Gail Williams, Funches' aunt, told the Tribune.

[McCamy Taylor]

1. Misleading headline. Should be "Grandad gets probation for shooting 23 y/o man who beat him."

Not sure what the misleading title is supposed to accomplish. Could it have anything to do with the photo that accompanies the story? In the old days, an African-American who dared to protect himself would have been lynched, and the killers would have taken photos of themselves beside the burning corpse and mailed them to their friends as postcards.

[hlthe2b]

3. that belies many facts...

including the fact that the Grandad brandished the weapon FIRST. He initiated the confrontation with a loaded weapon. That is fact. To what degree, the grandfather may have felt threatened, I don't know. But, the facts are that he initiated confrontation with a loaded gun.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. At a Darwinian level, why would you hit a guy you already knew had a gun?

Does seem pretty dumb at a practical level.

That said, I too have a problem between the mismatch of the conviction to the crime. Had the judge reduced it to manslaughter and then gave him probation I would be more comfortable with it.

[hlthe2b]

9. I don't disagree.

But note the facts in the article I cite below. It is clear that the old guy brandished the weapon in a threatening manner which initiated the confrontation. Otherwise it would have been a simple case of self-defense as some here want to portray it. It was not.

[FreakinDJ]

17. "Fight or Flight" a normal human response given the circumstances

Either your are going to fight for possession of that gun or you are going to run away

[HEyHEY]

6. The article says he punched the man before the weapon was drawn.

[hlthe2b]

8. No. see below

Funches, a father of three young children, was walking his dog in the 500 block of Landau Road in the far south suburb when his pet wandered onto Clements’ yard.

Clements confronted Funches about the dog and at one point took a .45-caliber pistol out of his pocket.

But Clements didn’t fire the weapon until after Funches cursed at him, then punched him, according to testimony during his trial.

Clements told police he shot Funches once in the abdomen because he feared his younger neighbor would harm him.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/3066589-418/clements-funches-dog-murder-actions.html


***
If he had only brandished the gun after being hit, it would have been simple self defense. The circumstances were far different, however, which is why he was charged.

[Lasher]

11. I don't think that's the way it went down.

From another article:

Testimony at the trial showed that after Funches cursed at him, Clements pulled out a .45-caliber handgun and then placed it back in his pocket.

According to the filing, Funches then yelled, "Old man if you pull a gun on me you better plan on using it," then punched Clements in the face.

Clements said he blindly fired his gun as he fell backward. He apologized for his actions during the sentencing hearing.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/12/29/2010-12-29_shock_after_charles_celements_gets_four_years_probation_for_killing_neighbor_who.html?r=news/national

I was surprised to see that Clements was found guilty of anything, since Illinois has a Castle Doctrine law. But in other articles I saw some indication that he had left his property to berate Funches, who had apparently continued walking his dog down the street.

Funches' last words will surely earn him a spot in this year's Darwin Awards.

[Liquorice]

4. The man he murdered was black as well, so your argument makes no sense. Many people

think that man got away with murder, especially the family of the victim. Race isn't the issue here.

[Taitertots]

2. That article has a misleading title

That title implies that Mr. Clements shot him for the dog's urination, and not the owner's violent attack on Mr. Clements. It should say "Charles Clements Gets PROBATION For defending himself from a violent attacker"

[HEyHEY]

7. Don't punch old men, if you do and they pull a gun, don't punch them again

[hlthe2b]

10. The old man pulled the gun first. The younger guy was

nuts to punch him, knowing he had the gun, but there you are. This was manslaughter, not a simple case of self-defense.

See the article I linked to in the reply post above

[blueamy66]

15. "Don't punch an old man with a GUN"

:-)

[Obamanaut]

18. And don't tell the old man if he pulls the gun he should use it. nt

[safeinOhio]

12. Not that I ever think newspaper

stories ever get the facts right, I question a story that is only told by the surviver and the shooter. I wonder what the dead mans story was.

[oneshooter]

13. " I got mad and fu#*ked up." Close enough? n/t

[blueamy66]

14. guns and prized lawns

they just don't mix.....

Who the fuck cares that much about their lawn that they need to confront some person with a dog that pees on their lovely tropical loveliness?

We have many plants, flowers, trees, 3 raised gardens that my fiance LOVES, but he would never shoot the cat owner whose routinely craps in them. Plus, we don't own a gun. Now, he may brandish his hockey stick, but....... :-)

This whole mess would be comical if someone didn't have to die.

[wndycty]

16. Had he shot the dog he would have the book thrown at him

:kick: