Earth Day? 20-mile open pit mine proposed upstream of Great Lakes Basin largest undisturbed wetland

[Scuba]

I'm reposting this 10-day old story. As Earth Day approaches, consider this little Scott Walker boondoggle.


http://www.jsonline.com/business/119665664.html

<snip>

Gogebic Taconite of Hurley plans to release on Tuesday a report that says that the large open pit iron ore mine would create 700 mining jobs; and stimulate more than 2,800 jobs in a 12-county region.

The mine - directly and indirectly - would generate an estimated $604 million annually for the regional economy, the report says.
The mine could operate at least 35 years.

<end snip>

followed by blog post by Penokee Rambler: "This proposed mine is just south of the Kakagon / Bad river slough. The site is
directly in the watershed of the largest undisturbed wetland system in the whole great lakes basin. The first phase mine is to be an open pit twenty miles long running from Mellen to Upson and removing 3.5 billion tons of taconite. This will not be an unseen underground mine it will be a huge hole the damage will be permanent.

[catgirl]

1. This madness needs to be stopped! n/t

[badtoworse]

12. How then should iron and steel be produced?

Regardless of where you site a mine, there are going to be environmental impacts.

[madrchsod]

16. most of this will be shipped to china or india.

a large percentage of steel in the usa comes from scrap. we have hundreds of millions of tons of scrap from the industries we shipped to india and china.

the steel mill i used to work for cannibalize itself when it scrapped 50% of machinery and buildings.

[Brickbat]

2. I'd like to know where Penokee Rambler gets "20 miles long."

Because that's frankly an outrageous claim.

[Scuba]

3. Do you have better info? I'd love to know the facts. n/t

[Brickbat]

7. Sure. According to an economic impact study -- funded, of course, by the drilling company -- the

open-pit mine would be four miles long, which is much more in line with other taconite mines. Twenty miles is just ridiculous to consider for a taconite mine.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/196726/publisher_ID/36/

[Scuba]

10. Excellent! Thanks. "The open-pit mine would stretch roughly along four miles ...

"The open-pit mine would stretch roughly along four miles of the Penokee Hills, on private land, about
30 miles southeast of Ashland, between the small towns of Mellen and Upson."


http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/196726/publisher_ID/36/

[trotsky]

14. So maybe you should edit your subject line?

I mean, a 4-mile-long pit is just as ugly but we should be accurate as possible.

[Scuba]

20. I learned too late. Sorry.

[Ellipsis]

22. 4 miles WIDE ...22 miles long. "The First Phase" of the project is 4 to 5 miles

http://www.gogebictaconite.com/project.html

[Brickbat]

23. Ah, good find!

If they go in four-mile stretches along the 20 miles, the mined still will fill in and the overburden will grow over. It's not going to be a giant 20-mile pit, in any case.

[Ellipsis]

25. "If" being the operative word there...we don't know what it's going to be.

Nor if it's even going to be, yet.

[trotsky]

27. Yes but it's the portion of land that's 22 miles long.

Does not appear anyone is proposing they gash the earth for those entire 22 miles.

[Ellipsis]

30. Who knows? Maybe they'll lease even more land... maybe they'll start mining for copper

I get your point but what "appears" to be doesn't make all warm and fuzzy inside. They haven't been approved to do anything yet. But I wouldn't attempt to soften the environmental impact by saying oh it'll only be four miles by 5 miles... that's the size of Manhattan. The current lease is almost four times the size of Manhattan

[Brickbat]

31. Four-five miles isn't bad for a taconite mine. And it takes awhile for the "gash" to get that big.

[Marrah_G]

4. omg

[eowyn_of_rohan]

5. "Creating jobs"... This is what draws so many hapless to the RW

They want steady employment for themselves and their families, and don't know or want to know about the nasty side effects of allowing industries like this to come into or expand in our state. Kind of reminds me of Pinocchio taken to Pleasure Island...

[Brickbat]

8. Which sums up, pretty much, why we have difficulty bringing them to "our" side.

"I know you want a job, but can't you just work in a resort or gift shop or something up here?"

ETA: I mean, really: Pleasure Island? That's just insulting.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

17. Pleasure Island

I mean that in the sense of being lured in by the false promise that with the RW plan everything will be wonderful, but once they are in, and the doors behind them locked, the evil side begins to emerge. No offense intended.

I have great sympathy for those who are in dire need of good jobs. I realize they are in a difficult and vulnerable position. I want them to see that the RW does not care about them, but how can we get them to "our" side when the RW is luring them with jobs? Sure they may get a job. And in the meantime our environment is being destroyed, their children's education funding is being drastically cut, health care and benefits, et al. I am just musing on all this right now... not meaning to be offensive.

[Brickbat]

19. Heh. If you're going to break it down as "right wing" and "left wing," the same could be said about

the promise of "green tech jobs" and "green manufacturing job" and "green jobs in general" that will save us all and can't possibly be outsourced to other countries. Both sides make promises. This mine proposal, however, is very real.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

24. YEs, my post was about RW and LW and how this is typically a divisive issue for us

I wonder how we can bring others to 'our side' , or, find a common denominator we could agree on - just musing on all of this, as I said.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

29. I regret not wording this differently

I just reread it and it sound snobbish and that is not at all where I am coming from. I had very complex issues in my mind and had a hard time distilling them into simple clear statements.

[Brickbat]

32. Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it.

As I say, I have strong feelings about this.

[crickets]

6. ...

:(

[marmar]

9. I'm sure Scott Walker will stand firmly against this, right?

[Brickbat]

11. I'll be honest with my loyalties here.

While I hate to see some competition sprouting up, my bread and butter is paid for by the Minnesota taconite industry. I live in Northeastern Minnesota and am directly affected by debates over mining vs. the environment. I've seen taconite mines and the towns they can build and swum and fished for trout in the lakes formed after the earth reclaims a pit. I've seen towns trying to support schools and viable Main Streets on year-round tourism, and it isn't pretty. I'm a union member in a union household.

That's where I'm coming from.

[Scuba]

13. Excellent. Glad to have an "expert" on the thread. Any sanity and connection...

...with the facts is appreciated.

What are the risks and benefits, from your perspective?

[Brickbat]

18. Oh, not an expert, at all. And I do admit my bias.

But I do think the benefits -- high-paying jobs in an industry that has learned how to weather the boom/bust cycle, in an area that could use a dose of cash -- outweigh the risks. There are the problems of mercury emissions and sulfite issues. I'm interested to see how a modern plant -- rather than a 50-year-old plant going through retrofits -- deals with such things.

I think it can be done in a way that benefits everyone. People can dog it every step of the way. It will take years to even break ground on the mine and anyone who opposes it -- or who wants to be a watchdog on it, even if they support it -- will have plenty of opportunity to keep the company honest. It's not easy, but I think it's worth it.

[badtoworse]

15. It doesn't matter what is proposed

Any project that involves heavy industry (i.e. something that creates a substantial number of good paying jobs) or the construction of infrastructure, environmentalists and NIMBY's are going to scream about it. It's hard to take them seriously sometimes.

[catgirl]

21. Who's screaming about high speed rail?

Environmentalists? You're a bit off here.

[badtoworse]

28. Talk to me after they've gotten the Rights of Way

ETA: I'll give you a good example. In northern New Jersey, there was an issue over a project called the Montclair Connection. The project was designed to expand direct commuter rail service into Manhattan by building about a 1/2 mile connection between the Boonton Rail Line and the Morris & Essex Rail Line. Both lines are part of NJ Transit and if you live in NJ, you probably are familiar with this. If not, you can look it up. Without going into a lot of detail, it was a good project in that it expanded access into Manhattan by rail instead of by car. It did eventually get built, but only after the City of Montclair held it up for 20 years. The reason? The improved access would have resulted in more trains going through Montclair and the resident didn't want to deal with the noise.

What makes you think running high speed rail through any city or town wouldn't have the same problems?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

26. This would violate a treaty with the Bad River Ojibwe

whose land is downstream from the proposed location. Where they fish, hunt and grow wild rice. Does that count for anything?