Did McDonald's Hiring Day Live Up to the Hype?

[wyethwire]

McDonald's Hiring Day was this week. Did they really hire anyone?

http://drjasonjohnson.com">Dr. Jason Johnson tried to find out. Johnson a professor at Hiram College in Ohio. Took a road trip from Atlanta to Cleveland, stopping a long the way to apply for jobs at McDonalds.

Read what he found out at http://drjasonjohnson.com/2011/04/21/on-mcdonalds-national-hiring-day-jason-johnson-tries-to-supersize-that-economy/">On McDonald’s National Hiring Day, Jason Johnson tries to Supersize That Economy

[GKirk]

1. I'm sure they managed to hire people

but at what level of pay?

Minimum wage is great for a first job for a high school or college kid but
not for someone trying to raise a family.

[Taitertots]

2. Minimum wage is not great for anyone, it is not a living wage n/t

[GKirk]

6. Are you kidding me?

Minimum wage is a great wage for a kid living at home or for a college kid who's parents or a scholarship is paying the tuition.

[Taitertots]

13. You mean adults who are forced to live with their parents because they can't afford housing.....

Transportation, clothes, food..... It is great if you expect to be unable to take care of yourself.


So when are you going to work for minimum wage? Or is it great, but only when you don't have to deal with the hardships it causes.

[GKirk]

15. Interesting how you completely

ignored what I said.

[Taitertots]

17. I disregarded it because it is non-sense

Adults who work should be paid a wage that is sufficient to cover reasonable living expenses. Minimum wage can't meet reasonable living expenses.

Young adults shouldn't be economically forced to live with their parents to preserve exorbitant profits for a tiny cabal of rich people.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taitertots]

22. And that is total non-sense

Adults who work should be paid a wage that is sufficient to cover reasonable living expenses. Minimum wage can't meet reasonable living expenses. They shouldn't be economically forced to live with their parents. Especially not when their productive gains are siphoned away to a tiny cabal of rich people.

An honest days pay for an honest days work. If an adult can't afford basic reasonable expenses than they are certainly not being paid an honest days wage.

[GKirk]

24. What the fuck don't you understand?

I'm talking high school kids living at home getting paid to get job experience and you're talking about
someone trying to raise a family. LISTEN TO ME! I don't disagree with that.

[Taitertots]

27. What don't you understand that people should be paid a reasonable amount for their labor?

Being a worker in college or high school doesn't mean that you should be economically forced to live with your parents.

[GKirk]

29. BY DEFINITION HIGH SCHOOL KIDS

LIVE AT HOME! yes the caps are on purpose

[Taitertots]

31. Which does nothing to change the fact that they deserve a reasonable wage for their labor

A reasonable wage is a wage which is enough to cover reasonable basic expenses. A minimum wage is not enough to meet the basic needs of an person living in our society.

[GKirk]

32. Finally you make a point that makes sense...

...to say high school kids deserve more than minimum wage because they can't pay for rent and food made you sound
ridiculous. To say they should get more than what is currently offered because "they deserve a reasonable wage for their labor"
at least makes sense. Thank you!

[Taitertots]

35. You are being intellectually dishonest

"Minimum wage is great for a first job for a high school or college kid but"
"Minimum wage is a great wage for a kid living at home or for a college kid who's parents or a scholarship is paying the tuition."
And now you have changed to only high school students. You being intellectually dishonest by conflating the two. Which is it?

A reasonable wage is a wage that can pay rent, food, transportation.... Anyone who works (regardless of age) should get this.

[GKirk]

38. I made it simpler for you to understand

there are very few high school kids that work so that they...
"can pay rent, food, transportation"

But if you feel that:
"Anyone who works (regardless of age) should get this (miniumum wage)."

then your opinion is valid.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taitertots]

66. The change is disingenuous

From adults to legal children. From people who depend on their wages to meet their basic needs and people who have parents that are legally required to meet their basic needs.

Anyone who works (regardless of age) should be paid a reasonable minimum wage. A reasonable minimum wage is a wage that can meet basic minimum needs (pay rent, food, transportation...).

[Bluenorthwest]

42. Not all of them have homes, nor parents that support them

your definition is limited by your experience, I guess. At the McDonald's in my neighborhood, there are young people supporting themselves with that job alone, which means they qualify for food assistance from the State. The Food Card does not allow them to purchase pet food, and they often can not afford it themselves, I bring care boxes for the pets. Oh, you will say, they should not have pets if they are poor, but I say to you that a young man who has been thrown out of his own home who manages to remain housed and employed who also makes the choice to care for a homeless cat that comes their way is exhibiting excellent qualities which should be nurtured.
Those 'kids' sure could use more than minimum wage.

[Violet_Crumble]

59. I'll say it. Anyone who can't afford a pet, yet goes ahead and gets one is an irresponsible moron...

There's nothing in the way of excellent qualities in not being able to afford to look after oneself, but turning around and taking on the responsibility of a pet. It's immature, self-centred, and whoever does it isn't thinking of the animal that they can't afford to feed. You might think my younger sister showed amazing qualities that should have been nurtured after she left home at 17 taking the car my dad had bought for her a few weeks before that she was supposed to pay off in small bits. She lasted out there, making that selfless choice to care for homeless creatures when she came across them, and she slept in her car with the puppy, three kittens, and a couple of rabbits. She couldn't afford to feed them either, but hell, let's just not concern ourselves with minor details like that and let's just commend her on what a nurturing nature she had. She came back home after my parents told her they'd take on the puppy, but she'd have to surrender the other animals to the RSPCA. I don't know what quality you'd think she had that was worth nurturing, as many years later she quickly acknowledges that she was totally irresponsible and immature...

[readmoreoften]

55. You've shifting the terms of the debate from college "kids" paying tuition to high-schoolers.

Most people who work at McDonalds now are not "high-school kids" working a summer job, but adults attending college and/or supporting families. You started with a discussion about "college kids", and after losing the debate, have turned it to "high-school kids"

[readmoreoften]

54. +1

[Violet_Crumble]

60. How do you feel about the concept of junior rates?

Don't know if you have them in the US, but my 19 year old daughter's about to leave her job at McDonalds and start work in a large government agency where she's going in at entry level that has a junior payrate. Until they're 21 they get paid a percentage of the adult salary (at 19 I think it's 80% and at 20 it's 90%). I was on the same sort of junior rates when I was that age, and I don't particularly think it's fair. Do you think she should tell them where to stick their job offer unless they pay her the full adult rate?

[readmoreoften]

53. +1

[Arctic Dave]

23. How many kids have that going for them?

A full scholarship? How many of those are handed out? Living with mom and dad? How many are able to this and go to the school of their choosing? If a kids parents can shell out that type of money (which is a hell of a lot of money) most likely the kid gets an allowance of more then a part time job at mcbarffys.

[JoePhilly]

30. I put myself through undergraduate college making minimum wage.

And I took student loans. My parents had nothing. I had no allowance.

I started working as a junior in high school. I worked close to full time during the summer, then part time during the school year.

I arranged my college schedule at school so that I usually took early classes, and often had Tuesday off, and I worked afternoons and Saturdays.

Between the loans, and the money I saved, I was able to pay for it. I still had to pay off loans after I graduated, but the extra money from the job made a huge difference.

[Arctic Dave]

34. Do you see the disconnect of your statement?

You used the money as pocket money, you did not "put yourself through college" with it. Unless you are saying you stayed at McDonald after school was over and paid off your entire debt with it.

[JoePhilly]

39. Actually, I did both.

Student loans often only pay tuition. Not books. Not lodging. Not food. Not gas to get to school.

See, having put myself through college (no money from parents) ... I know that every dime matters. Some of those dimes were via loans. Some via my job. And some via a credit card at times.

In addition, I attended a private college, not cheap. The loans I obtained were insufficient to cover the entire tuition. The money I made working in that minimum wage job helped close the gap.

The point of course is that those claiming minimum wage jobs don't help are simply wrong. That minimum wage job helped me to be able to get the education, which enabled me to get even better jobs later.

With out that minimum wage job, I would not have had enough money to attend that college. Its that simple.

[Arctic Dave]

43. If you don't mind what % of min. wage to credit did you have?

If you helped pay for food, lodging and had pocket money.

No disrespect but it sounds like you levereged your education to go to college. Which sometimes works and sometimes it doesn't. There is a post on here today about the amount of loan defaults going up.


Side note:

I laugh when I hear guys tell me stories of how they went to college on 500.00 bucks back in the sixties and early seventies. I tell them my daughters books cost more then that for a semester. They look at me like I'm trying to pull a fast one on them. LOL.

[JoePhilly]

49. Sure ... but I'll have to estimate some ...

I started to work the minimum wage job as a junior in high school (~1980). I would get home from school at about 2:30 and work to about 6:30. M-F. I worked from about 7am Sat morning to about 4pm Saturday afternoon. And that was at about $3.50 an hour. So that was about 29 hours a week. About $100 dollars a week, about $400 a month. 9 months during the school year, $3600.

Plus the summer ... then I worked more ... usually 8 to 5 M-F, 7-4 Saturday. So that's was usually about 40-50 hours a week. Let's call it 45. And I'll round the weekly up to $160 (if I worked over 40, I got time and a-half). So for a month, about ~$640. Three summer months, ~$1920.

So that's about $5520 for 6 years ... two of which I was in high school, the other 4 in college.

During the college years, I probably worked a little more because the college schedule is much more flexible. But let's keep it simple. I haven't subtracted taxes either. But I didn't add in tips, which weren't large anyway. So $5500 is a descent number.

I went to Saint Joseph's University in Philly. I lived at home, a 20 some mile commute in Philly. Tuition was about 5k a semester. I would have liked to live on campus, but that cost way more, and as a freshman living on campus you could not have a car.

So that's 10 grand just for tuition each year. I bought used books for almost every class. Gas was my other major expense.

My loans were about $3000 a semester (so that's 6k a year). My parents didn't have anything, so they wouldn't give me any more than that. But I did get a $300 pell grant almost every semester (so that's $600).

So roughly, 10k yearly tuition ... paid for each year with 6k in loans, $600 in grants, and 3,400k out of my work money. Oh, I did buy a $500 car right before going to college too. Book and gas were extra, and neither cheap.

I left undergraduate college with 24k in loans. And I still had a few thousand left from working.

Which I needed ... because then I went to graduate school. :-)

[readmoreoften]

57. What paid for your housing then? You made enough money to pay rent in Philly from a part-time McD

gig?

[readmoreoften]

56. Then you didn't make it through college on minimum wage. You made it through on loans.

And probably through living with your parents. I fail to see how you could support yourself on a part-time, minimum wage job. Even in the 70s that would've been near-impossible. It is utterly not possible now.

[Obamanaut]

4. Minimum wage is better than not having a wage at all. Some retired

people like to work part time, and don't need a lot of money.

Others like to work part time, just for the little bit of extra money.

Some are young people in high school or college. I have a grandson who worked for his last year of HS and first year of college at a fast food place, and then at a pet store. He graduates in May with a very low student loan debt.

It isn't THE answer for everyone, but it is AN answer for some.

[Hugin]

3. I ran into a couple of N00bs.

Getting trained up on the registers.

Now, if they were hired previously, I don't know. :shrug:

All-in-all, if the only outcome of this exercise is that these people hired can't be turned away from other jobs because they are currently "UNEMPLOYED" then I'm all for it.

[Lucky Luciano]

5. Not sure that helps for those not being hired due to being unemployed.

If you are some IT guy SOL due to outsourcing and you take a job at Mcd, then a hiring manager for a real job would still consider you unemployed for all practical purposes.

[GKirk]

7. At he least that IT guy

would have something for a future employer to check on. His/her manager could at least
confirm his punctuality and willingness to work in a team environment.

[Hugin]

10. It's usually just a check box.

Are you currently employed? -check-

It's just like education... In my years doing IT I can't tell you how many history/Brit-lit Masters and PHds I've worked with or had as a boss.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. I'd like to know the ratio of applicants to hireds.

[liberal N proud]

9. They almost killed people in Cleveland

the day turned violent at on McDonald's as a women was angry about the line, ran over several people.

[GKirk]

11. I tried to find an article about that incident.

...I got the impression that the fight was unrelated to the job offer.

[liberal N proud]

12. Here is something:

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/passenger-in-mcdonalds-car-incident-speaks-exclusively-to-newschannel5

[wyethwire]

52. Here's a link

http://drjasonjohnson.com/2011/04/21/on-mcdonalds-national-hiring-day-jason-johnson-tries-to-supersize-that-economy/

and

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/mcdonalds_hiring_day_turns_vio.html

Cleveland, Ohio 2:00 a.m.

There were surprisingly few McDonalds on Highway 71 heading up into Cleveland, but when I finally arrived home, I watched the television set to see how the coverage of hiring day had gone.

Unemployment, especially in the Cleveland metro area for black people is terrible, and more often than not these kinds of gimmicks directly affect the lives and opportunities of the poor – in a very real way. Around 2pm that afternoon a woman became so angry about her application process at a local Cleveland McDonalds that she got into her car and ran over 3 people, including the store manager. Not a good way to get hired. Even if they do need 50,000 people.

[wyethwire]

14. I love this line about the debt ceiling

The men and women I saw in Smyrna, Clinton and Cleveland could care less about the debt ceiling. They just want to know how they’ll keep a roof over their heads.

[Le Taz Hot]

16. McDonald's just announced today,

they are eliminating the dollar menu and raising prices on their regular menu items. I'm sure that advertising for 50,000 job openings just days before announcing a price increase is pure coincidence. :eyes:

[Overseas]

18. K&R!

Great article.

[elocs]

20. The unemployment rate for teens is over 20%. My 19 year old goddaughter applied

and she would love to get a job at McDonalds.

It's time to get real here. We all know even if we pretend otherwise that jobs at places at McDonalds are not jobs that pay a living wage and can support an adult or a family. But those jobs are very important for teens trying to get that first job, somewhere they can gain some work experience to put down on their application for their next job, a place to gain work experience. It's a way for these young people to make some money of their own and to gain some confidence and pride in their efforts and accomplishments.

I am guessing that many thousands of people who are now successfully working at good jobs now got their start at a place like McDonalds. No, these jobs are not going to turn around the economy, but they are valuable jobs for many people and we should not look down our noses at them.

[GKirk]

21. You are wrong

please read tatertots responses to me. :(

[elocs]

25. Nope, not wrong and your saying so does not make it true. n/t

[GKirk]

28. My comment to you was...

...meant to be sarcasm.

Did you read Tatertots responses to me above?

I said a minimum wage job at McDonalds was a good first job for a highschool kid and s/he responded:

"Adults who work should be paid a wage that is sufficient to cover reasonable living expenses. Minimum wage can't meet reasonable living expenses. They shouldn't be economically forced to live with their parents. Especially not when their productive gains are siphoned away to a tiny cabal of rich people."

[elocs]

36. My apologies, no, I did not read all the responses.

Evidently I must really need the sarcasm thingie.

On edit: I read your other posts, so now I understand.

[Violet_Crumble]

61. I got the sarcasm and I totally agree with you...

Working at Maccas is an excellent first job for a kid straight out of school. In the space of 18 months my daughter became a crew trainer, did her Cert II or III in Retail and got the experience she needed in dealing with other staff and customers that landed her a very hotly contested administrative job in a large govt department where she can begin her career. I think there's something wrong when someone insists that kids are being economically forced to live with their parents. My daughter never wanted to leave home, and now she's about to start a job where she could afford to rent something on her own, she's still got no intention of moving. I'd like to think that she chose to live at home the past 18 months because we've got a good relationship going, not because she was economically forced to...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

50. DU can be very snobby about jobs

They respect people more for being broke and turning down offers from the companies they despise, like Mickey D's.

[Dappleganger]

64. In agreement with you.

Our 19 yr. old did get a job and knows this is just a stepping-stone to her next gig when she gets out of tech school, and one way to help w/extra expenses. Plus, she's a real night owl and this is one of the few places where she can work very late at night.

[elocs]

65. Congratulations. I hope that my 19 year old can get one, especially in the next few weeks

before college and high schools get out.

[Dappleganger]

68. Yeah, the competition will be fierce...

she missed that "window" last year and really regretted it. She is bummed that most of her co-workers are from her old high school (either current students or recent graduates such as herself) but that's the trade-off for working in a decent neighborhood.

Hope yours finds a good job, soon!

[Marblehead]

26. Minimum wage is way to low in todays $

$10-12 an hour should be minimum.

[MineralMan]

33. Minimum wage jobs are just that. They're a starting point.

After I dropped out of college, way back in 1964, I took a minimum wage job working at a gas station. In fact, the job came with a place to live - a crummy room at the back of the station.

Three months later, I was the manager of the station. The owner retired and moved to another state. That minimum wage job turned into a good-paying job. Why? Because I showed an interest in the business and learned how that business worked. I was 20 years old.

Some of the people being hired for these $8/hr. McDonald's jobs will be managing the stores that hired them in a year. Not many, but some. Others will stay in the spot where they were hired, for one reason or another. A few of these new hires, not many, will end up as franchise owners, just like a few people who got hired at Walmart end up being store managers after a few years. A job is an entry point. You can stay at that entry point or you can use that entry point as a springboard. Which thing happens depends on many factors.

[Taitertots]

37. What was the minimum wage back then, roughly $1.50 an hour?

In real terms, your minimum wage was well over 30% higher than it is now. Why should they make substantially less than you did?

It must be nice that you were so lucky that the owner handed you a high paying job. It is unrealistic to expect that to happen to anything more than a tiny fraction of low income workers, regardless how great they are as workers. The vast majority are stuck at the "entry point" regardless of what they do, why should they be denied reasonable wages.

[MineralMan]

40. I was not addressing the amount of the minimum wage.

I was only addressing the path that some take in jobs that are in that category. I was pretty clear that it is not many who do that.

As I look at the people working in the McDonalds near me, I don't see a lot of people who appear to be supporting families through that job. In any case, they are working, rather than being unemployed.

Yes, I believe the minimum wage should be higher than it now is. That, however, is not the case. Should people who are seeking some kind of employment not do so? Judging by the number of people applying for those jobs, I imagine they'd say no to that question.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. A job that is wage + free rent is not minimum wage,.

The minimum wage is higher here than most places. The bulk of the people at my local McDonalds are adults. The one person I have known locally who worked there was in fact supporting a family with that plus two jobs the spouse did. Serious business to her, very much so.
It is fanciful to pretend that all those folks working that counter are 'kids' going home to lovely families and socking the cash away. It is wildly slanted to compare a gig that came with housing to a gig that barely pays for housing. Around here, a job that came with even a 'crappy room' would be seen as paying $400 more than the wage in the form of rent. In some cities, you can not rent a crappy room for 400 a week!
Of course, something is better than nothing, but it is not you or I who are forced into that position, so it should be people like us advocating for living wage jobs for those who need them. It is a fairy tale to tell yourself that people are not taking those jobs as part of how they are keeping themselves and their families alive and intact. To pretend they are all suburban teens paying for their European semester is absurd.

[MineralMan]

45. I am an advocate for a living wage. Have been for many years.

The entire point of my post was that, for some people, a minimum wage job is not a dead end. Not for many, but for some.

[readmoreoften]

58. That is absolutely correct. A job with free housing is not a minimum wage job.

[wyethwire]

46. Tea Partiers at McDonalds

Then there was this report from Kentucky:

Lexington, Kentucky 5:15 p.m.

At this point I’ve been driving so long and I’m so tired that I actually give in and WANT to eat at McDonalds. I pull over and see a Mini-Tea Party Rally going on for Phil Moffett, candidate for Kentucky Governor. There’s no better place for a bunch of Tea Partiers than a McDonald’s parking lot.

Putting on my best twang and intimate knowledge of right wing politics I walked right up to the head man of the rally and started talking Kentucky Politics. After some initial hesitation he opened up, we talked about America’s debt problem, how terrible Obama is, whether Trump would run, and how “the blacks” and Jews were destroying America. Okay okay I’m kidding. We didn’t really talk about Trump running.

Satisfied that I’d spread the gospel of Allen West for a day, I went inside McDonald’s and finally found an example of what should going on during national “hiring day”. Greeted firmly by a 30-something year old white woman named Anne and a 20-something coca skinned college senior and management trainee named Tiffany, I was invited to have a free cookie and sit down for an interview.

Tiffany quickly explained that over 155 people had applied already that day, that they were hiring over 20 people on the spot and that unlike other McDonald’s they really saw today as a great opportunity to get new staff.

[wyethwire]

51. More from Kentucky

In fact when I told them both that I was applying to McDonalds all over route 75 they were totally interested in finding out how their hiring plans were squaring up with everyone else’s. This was like hanging out with the opposing high school during homecoming and all the cheerleaders wanting to find out if the other team’s float is better than theirs. I was actually pretty inspired by their speech about how McDonalds was a family, how Anne had worked there for 13 years and how Tiffany was graduating from University of Kentucky this spring and already had a full time livable wage job as a manager.

Know what made this McDonalds different? It was a franchise.

[Generic Other]

47. they must have replaced some personnel at this McD's

Workers film vicious girlfight in McDonald's and do nothing but laugh and post to Youtube.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=943884&mesg_id=943884

[Dappleganger]

48. Yes, our 19 yr. old daughter finally got her first job.

She started yesterday and will be working 20-25 hours per week while she continues to go to tech school. Most of the typical teenage jobs have been given to out of work older workers so the competition has been fierce. Now, she will be able to pay her own gas and car insurance, plus spending money (and help our household expenses).

[Violet_Crumble]

62. Congrats to her!

I hope it leads to bigger and better things like the job at McDonalds did for my 19yr old :)

[Dappleganger]

63. Thanks!

I'm glad it worked out well for yours, too. :hi:

[Liberal_in_LA]

67. Over shadowed by the beating of the customer caught on video

[xchrom]

69. What an interesting read this thread was.

DUers apparently disrespect them selves enough to think there is 'good' in a minimum wage.

What ever.

[hayu_lol]

70. Many retired seniors use these part-time jobs to supplement...

their pensions. Helps to be physically capable however. Most of these kinds of part-time jobs have disappeared in the economy we have today. The pay, at minimum wage, was sufficient to live with some dignity.

[xchrom]

71. There's nothing good or dignified about a 'minimum' wage.

It's that kind of 'cheap' mentality that's killing this country.

Or if not killing it - turning it into a vastly less dignified place to live.