Hey Donald, Show us your draft card!

[itsrobert]

http://www.crowleypoliticalreport.com/2011/04/did-donald-trump-avoid-the-draft.html

In 1964, at the age of 18, Trump would have been required to register with the Selective Service at his draft board.

Did he? What was his classification? Did he receive a deferment?

In 1968, when Trump left college at the age of 22, he would have been ripe for the draft unless there was a deferment for real estate executives.

Trump has bragged about going to military school and being a star athlete but he was also a no-show at military enlistment offices.

So in the spirit of asking for birth certificates (has anyone seen Trump's), let's see Trump's draft card and deferment records.

And perhaps he can explain how he managed to avoid the draft - especially after graduating from college in 1968.

[CurtEastPoint]

1. oh, SNAP! He just got pwned! n/t

[Elwood P Dowd]

2. Typical rich kid medical deferment like Limbaugh.

Boil on his butt??

I was drafted during Vietnam, spent two years in the Army, and I never met a rich kid the whole time.

[madokie]

6. I knew a few in boot that being in the Navy was a step up for them, not a step down

or they seen it as that and after knowing them and listening to the stories of home I had to agree with them. I agree with you though about not knowing any 'rich' kids in the Navy and damn sure didn't know any in country Vietnam

[Brother Buzz]

This dumb draftee shared time with quite a few affluent dudes in Basic Training and AIT

Without exception, they were all National Guard/Army Reserve.

[Elwood P Dowd]

29. Now that you mention it, there were a couple of NGs in basic training.

Didn't know if they were rich or not, but they WERE first class assholes.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Point well taken. What's up, Donald?

Are you one of these "heroes?"

[madokie]

4. I swear I read a while back that combover wasn't even born in America

some bullshit about sanctioning a spot in South Africa as American and thats how he is American. (his parents are American citizens) I swear I read this somewhere about a year or so back. I realize that I may be dreaming. I'm not good at searches but sometimes things get removed from the google so who knows. I think I do but like I said I have no link, just my memory.

Parents had gone to South Africa because they had the very best health care you could afford and the parents being filthy rich money wasn't an issue.

May just be an old man ramblin', If it is give this old man a hug anyway. :hi:

[monmouth]

15. He was born in Jamaica, Queens, NY...n/t

[madokie]

54. Where's my hug?

I wanted a hug :cry:
Like I said I read a story about his birth and it was something strange but I guess I mis remembered it. Anyways something is there or he wouldn't be trying to get out in front by claiming Obama was Kenya born, after all thats how pukes do it. :hi:

[SalviaBlue]

73. No, I heard it too.

I didn't hear it all, and it was definitely tongue in cheek, but they were talking about it on Thom Hartman.

The point was (I think) that if enough people repeat a lie... you know like Obama was born in Kenya, people will believe it.

[spanone]

5. k&r...

[emilyg]

7. Did Obama serve?

[Sherman A1]

9. He is currently.

He serves as CinC and previously served in the US Senate and Illinois legislature.

Not all service requires a uniform.

[DesertRat]

11. No, but

neither he nor Clinton positioned himself as a right wing blowhard like Trump.

[WatsonT]

21. But both got us in to wars

[Cirque du So-What]

19. Sickening

At least your Obama-bashing is succinct.

On edit: there was no requirement to register for the draft when Barack Obama came of age, so your snarky one-liner has as much to do with Donald Trump as the price of tea in China.

[SteveG]

71. Beg to differ

The requirement to register for the draft was never ended. All males are required to register for the draft.

Men who do not register could be prosecuted and, if convicted, fined up to $250,000 and/or serve up to five years in prison. In addition, men who fail to register with Selective Service before turning age 26, even if not prosecuted, will become ineligible for: source http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/defenseandsecurity/a/draftreg.htm

[groundloop]

74. Your incorrect. There were quite a few years when you never had to register

I turned 18 just after the draft was abolished (1975 as I recall) and never had to register. It was quite a few years before the requirement to register for selective service was reinstated.

[Kolesar]

89. 1957-1959

Then the warmongers starte grousing about Nicaragua and El Salvador and they started registration for those born in 1960 or later.

[Plucketeer]

87. I never registered for the draft

But I enlisted in the USAF the very day I turned 18. 2 years later I went to Vietnam voluntarily (March of 1965). I was in and out of that country three different times - for two month tours. The second trip, I developed an infected pilonidal cyst, and had to return to Clark AB P.I. for treatment. Third tour, I developed a nasty infection on one ankle. After that I didn't volunteer any more.

[blogslut]

20. Not really relevant

Obama came of age after the draft had been abolished. Obama registered with selective service at 18 and that is all the law required/s.

When Donald Trump turned 18 the draft was in full effect and since he did not serve, he would have had to have found some way from doing so - either by deferment, joining the national guard or exemption due to a 4-F classification. The OP/article isn't asking if Trump served. We know he didn't serve. The question is: how did Trump avoid service?

[emilyg]

28. Thanks for a good explanation.

[brewens]

70. There were also a lot of people that just took their chances and

never got drafted. He may have relied on luck and his parents ability to pull the right strings and keep him out of harms way. May be nothing there but we can hope.

[SaveAmerica]

43. Why, were they looking for 6 year old African boys to send to Nam?

[blackbart99]

49. he was too young to be drafted...

By the time he was old enough...like me...the draft was over and it was all volunteer.

He was born on Oahu one year after me...my parents are U.S. citizens and so was Obama's mother.
we are all U.S. citizens. My birth certificate looks exactly like his.

He has served his community in one form or another since he was a kid....have you?
:spank:

[BlueMTexpat]

52. There wasn't a draft by the time he was old enough.

In the 60s, the draft was in full force. Lots of blowhards like Trump and the group known as "chickenhawks" made sure that they got deferments one way or another.

However, Obama did work as a community activist and got to see for himself - and hopefully helped to improve - lifestyles of the more vulnerable members of US society.

Frankly, I am one who would like to see a national service requirement for ALL US citizens, although the service need not simply be performed in the military, IMO. There are plenty of ways to "serve" this country. If nothing else, national service would raise national consciousness for those who would otherwise remain firmly situated in their own closed parochial environments, captive audiences to RRW propaganda.

[MH1]

75. I'm with you

on the national service requirement.

Just want to give you a thumbs up for that. It's not a very popular position at DU (although there are quite a few of us here who agree with it).

[BlueMTexpat]

77. Thanks!

:hi:

[trumad]

55. No Draft when Obama came of age.

Certainly a draft when Trump came of age and a very reasonable question.

Now bug off.

[rosesaylavee]

60. He and I are roughly the same age

so I am guessing the only place he could have seen action is if he had enlisted and participated in the valiant take over of Granada.

Too young for Viet Nam and too old for Bosnia or was otherwise serving in the Illinois legislature.

[Alcibiades]

85. Obama was seven in 1968

Trump, on the other hand, would have been eligible for the draft. Trump has declared that he doubts Obama's well-documented birth occurred. If he's going to go all the way back to 1961, isn't it reasonable to look at where Trump was in 1968? Particularly since the particulars surrounding his non-service in Vietnam are less well documented than the president's birth.

That's the difference.

[snooper2]

90. still bitter?

[Obamanaut]

8. Did Bill Clinton serve? nt

[Sherman A1]

10. Yes,

He was Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces for 8 years.

[former9thward]

13. Please read your Consstitution.

The CIC is a civilian. He is NOT a member of the US military.

[Sherman A1]

33. I have

and he was a public servant. There is more ways to serve than just those that include wearing a uniform. That was my point, sorry you missed it.

[former9thward]

37. I guessed I missed it because the OP was focusing in on the draft.

Which only affected people going into the military.

[Obamanaut]

14. Now, that is a stretch and you know it. But cute, anyway. nt

[Sherman A1]

35. No, it is not.

There are more ways to serve than a spiffy little uniform. That was the point, sorry you missed it.

[WatsonT]

23. So then bush served as well

[Obamanaut]

24. And he was (ostensibly) a member of the ANG, and flew jets. nt

[WatsonT]

25. So I guess he wasn't a chickenhawk then

[Elwood P Dowd]

40. Oh yes he was.

Everyone I served with at that time considered NGs as chickenhawks. There was another term we used, but it meant the same.

[era veteran]

56. That is a perfect explanation.

The Reserves and NG were a way to beat the draft. There was a waiting list to get in all units. Very few Reserve & NG guaranteed components were activated for duty. You had to be a rich boy to get into Champagne Flight, Bush's units nickname. Bush's unit also flew obsolete aircraft that would never be used in combat.
That being said, I would point out that a few Reserve and NG units soldiered in the 'Nam and they served with honor.

BUT The Guard and Reserves then are completely different in the Army's 'On the Cheap' doctrine used now. Bring them home.

[Mendocino]

58. Would the other term be

REMF?

[Sherman A1]

36. Well,

He was Governor of a State, he was President of the United States (whether we liked it or not, he took the oath of office), so Yup, he served.

[rhett o rick]

46. No, but what's your point? nm

[Obamanaut]

78. The point is this: Trump is looked on with disfavor regarding his

draft status and evading it - probably because he isn't liked here.

Clinton evaded in much the same way, but he is not looked at with the same jaundiced eye. Snopes has a really good 'time line' explanation of how Clinton avoided the draft. All legal, but avoid he did. Even so, he IS liked here.

Two different people, similar avoidance methods (all legal), two different levels of acceptance.

[rhett o rick]

84. More power to all those that avoided the draft. I think the problem here is that

is that King Donald is making a big issue out of Pres Obama's birth certificate. Therefore, why not question King Donald's legitimacy. Childish maybe, but this is a blog. None of this has anything to do with Clinton.

[former9thward]

12. The draft is a dead issue in American politics.

It has been since 1992. 1992 War II veteran Bush against Clinton (best case scenario a draft evader) Winner Clinton
1996 WW II hero Dole against Clinton Winner Clinton
2000 Bush (National Guard evader) against Vietnam Vet Gore Winner Bush
2004 Bush against Vietnam Vet and medal earner Kerry Winner Bush
2008 McCain Vietnam War vet and POW against Obama who had no service Winner Obama

The American public clearly does not care about military service or the draft anymore.

[JDPriestly]

51. Depends on the generation.

My generation still cares about whether people registered for the draft, protested the Viet Nam War or somehow got out of it.

Viet Nam was a horrible, bloody, murderous war. A lot of good people never came back. My generation has not gotten over it. We never will.

Getting a deferment for college was a big deal.

Many members of the Bush administration went that route. There is nothing wrong with it, but all the men had to register.

My husband served for four years in the Air Force. He volunteered. That is not so common today, but it matters to my generation. When men of our generation get together, they often talk about their days in the military. Poor men served.

[maddiemom]

53. Viet Nam generation

I am also of the same generation, and used to agree that we could never forget. That was before presidents and politicians of our generation began getting us into stupid, senseless bloody wars again. True , these were guys who weren't military veterans of that time. I also remember how most of my friends stayed in college and often went into occupations that would defer them (my husband did both, although I have a brother who volunteered). I found no fault with this, as most everyone I knew strongly opposed the war, and didn't go into elective office later to start more such wars.

[JDPriestly]

82. Many people who opposed the war served anyway because they

were poor and drafted. My husband served before Viet Nam.

[Faygo Kid]

65. +1

[former9thward]

79. Yes I made a general statement.

I am also an Air Force volunteer. But viewing the results of the last five presidential elections it is clear that lack of military service will not doom you in the election.

[road2000]

80. Not quite.

2000 and 2004 need asterisks.

[HockeyMom]

16. He hasn't submitted an official NYC Birth certificate

Both myself and my husband were both born in NYC 2 years after the Donald. We both have NYC SEALS on our BC. BTW, my husband was also born in QUEENS.

Show us your NYC, not HOSPITAL, Certificate, Donald. Your fellow New Yorkers want to know.

Edit, my husband is also a VETERAN. He enlisted out of Maspeth, QUEENS.

[itsrobert]

17. Yeah, they didn't draft Canadians.

Trump must have been born in Canada.

[Turbineguy]

18. That's just....

Not Fair!

[LuckyLib]

22. The draft lottery began in December of 1969. What was Trump's number?

[HockeyMom]

31. Had to be earlier than '69

My husband turned 17 in '65 when he graduated HS. He enlisted in the Air Force so he wouldn't be drafted out of HS. I remember boys my age worrying, or leaving for Canada, when they graduated HS.

Trump, 2 years older than us, would have gotten a college deferrment, but still would have been eligible for the draft when he graduated college. Unless, of course, he had a physical disability which he could have claimed.

[LuckyLib]

34. Seems it was 1969.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_lottery_%281969%29

[HockeyMom]

38. Conscription Act of 1917

It was around since then. '69 probably was the biggest call up year for Nam, but they got their draft cards and call up in earlier years. All volunteer military service didn't happen until early 70s.

[LuckyLib]

41. I think we're talking about two different things. I'm referring to the 69 draft "lottery" in which

birthdates were chosen in a "lottery" -- for 19-year-old males who did not have student (or other) deferments. My brother's birthdate was the 9th date chosen, so he was off to the induction center. I remember it well. Other friends who got "high" numbers in the high 200's, were relieved -- they were not going to be called up.

[SOS]

67. That's the lottery, not the draft itself.

The lottery only changed the order of conscription.
Guys were being drafted throughout the Vietnam War.
Where is Trump's card?

[WinkyDink]

26. His mother is foreign!

Born in Scotland!

:-)

[HockeyMom]

27. For all this, that just might be the key

Queens, notwithstanding. Poor Queens. lol As a New York County (Manhattan) native, I know the borough of Queens gets bashed a lot. Even Kings County (Brooklyn) does too. Hey, RUDY is from Canada too!!!!!

Seriously, though, I still question why Trump is submitting a HOSPITAL certificate, and not an official NYC BC. Believe me I know, shit happens with records in NYC. Mine, my Dad's, and my Mom's original BC were lost, but there is still the NYC Birth Indexes, which containe only the barest of information. Yet, NYC will still issue an official sealed (as I have) BC with just this.

Is the Donald too cheap to pay the $50 to NYC to get an official NYC BC? What is the deal with his mother? My cousin, and his Dad, were both born in the Bronx. His Mom was an Irish citizen when he was born. It says this on his BC. As such, my cousin has dual ciitzenship with Ireland. He cannot ever run for President. Was Trump's mother a UK citizen at this birth? This is far more of an issue than "Canada, Queens, or Jamaica", as much fun as that may be.

[WinkyDink]

30. More:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1025243/Hair-raising-moment-billionaire-Donald-Trump-drops-visit-Scottish-relatives.html

[HockeyMom]

32. Was she a naturalized citizen at his birth?

Does Scotland grant citizenship the same way Ireland does? Interesting. Find a way to check his passport. I know my cousin had TWO passports. He used his Irish passport to go to Ireland and used his American one to come back into the states. I know, sneaky.

[SaveAmerica]

44. Is that an example of 'projection'? If a republican is yelling from the rooftops about a wrong a dem

has done, you can almost always look back at the Republican and his story and find the accusation true for their life.













Edited because I wrote 'reflection' instead of projection...

[EmmettKelly]

39. Looks like Trump pulled a high lottery number

#356. Talk about your silver spoon.

http://www.historynet.com/whats-your-number.htm

[Obamanaut]

42. And so did Clinton, right after maneuvering enough so that he knew he

would never be called up.

Special deals, schools, social contacts, etc.

But no, just like so many, he never served in the military.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. He was against the Vietnam War. He organized anti-war protests.

Hardly an hypocrite.

[WinkyDink]

68. Your point? I knew someone who pulled #1: 9/14/1949---and his doctor kept him out.

[JohnnyRingo]

47. Now that you mention it.....

It's true that the Army was in dire need of warm bodies in 1968 when he graduated Wharton and joined his father in his real estate business. There basically were no excuses except for purchased deferments, marriage with a child like Cheney, and the lottery later in 1970.

Fresh meat just out of collegewere ripe for a higher education in rifle cleaning, and since we know he had no children and wasn't deferred by lottery, that leaves only one way this "proud American" beat the draft. His father's money.

Wikipedia claims he's a "self made real estate tycoon" then in the next sentence describes his father's great wealth in pointing out how his son Donald joined the family company. His father died in 1999 leaving behind a half billion dollars. What are the odds such a disadvantaged kid would beat poverty and go on to be a success?

[Kolesar]

62. Lottery was not until 1970

Good analysis :thumbsup:

[SteveG]

72. I remember it well, Dec 1, 1969

I was in the first lottery when I was a Sophomore in College and my number was 24. In March of my senior year I was called up for my physical (I was married and had a child on the way). Fortunately (?) I was declared 4F since I am legally blind in my left eye. I'm not sure what number they went to in 72 (which was the last year of the Draft) but most of those who went to Philly that day in March had numbers between 20 and 25, and most of those who passed the physical were drafted.

[Kolesar]

88. I was born in the 1960s, and all I remember is brothers of my friends talking about "the lottery"

This movie written around the Kent State May 4 shootings brought it all back to me: www.theyearthattrembled.com

[B Calm]

48. He probably had a boil on his ass. . .

[divvy]

83. Hey, that is serious .... See Limbaugh's deferment.

[Firebrand Gary]

50. This is fantastic!

Though I doubt that this will see the light of day.

[Faygo Kid]

57. Kicked. A question that the media apparently won't ask.

And a damned interesting one.

[Mendocino]

59. The Prima Donald

thinks that wars are for the "little people".

[krispos42]

61. I also want to see the immunization certificates for that creature on his head n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

63. Well, we know the Thing is opposed to the draft, the breeze and the gust.

[krispos42]

64. *snort*

:rofl:

[Zambero]

66. It's obvious. Trump fled to Canada to avoid the draft.

Let's see now... accoding to my birther almanac that would have been at a point when Obama was a 3-year old kid in Kenya! Can Donald prove otherwise? How many millions of $$$ in legal fees has he spent to conceal this fact? I would have never believed sort of thing this 3 weeks ago, but right now it's my favorite conspiracy theory flavor of the day. Better than any Easter chocolate rabbit. There are "birthers" and there are "drafters". Guess I'm in the latter group!

[neoralme]

69. In retrospect, having been in Vietnam and having seen what I saw,

I would have done the exact same thing as Trump and been extremely proud of it now.

[W T F]

76. Stop picking on Donald.

I want him to get the GOP nomination. he's the perfect candidate for Obama to run against. it's too early for mud slinging.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

81. He would have joined but the Army refused to issue him dog-tags that said "The Donald" and hairspray

[padruig]

86. Great Question for Mr. Trump

I still have my draft card - when I registered it was 1971 and Selective Service had put in the lottery system.

My number was 250 and that year they took registrants up to about 130.

It was Dwight David Eisenhower who once said that he felt sorry for any occupant of the Oval Office who had not been in war.

War is truly hell that destroys both young men and women, their families and their nations.

The vast majority of those who seem to think that war is a good thing have never ever been in uniform to this Nation.

While some on the reactionary right are constantly poking at Clinton for lack of service they prefer to overlook the fact that another two term Republican President, Ronald Reagan never served as well.

They also like to tout the heroism of their Republican veterans such as George H.W. Bush for his service in world war II while ignoring President Jimmy Carter, who as a young nuclear power Naval officer, helped disassemble the stricken Chalk River nuclear reactor in Ontario CA. where their exposure times in the reactor vessel was limited to 90 seconds.

Of Presidents in the last forty years you have seven of eleven that have been in uniform and of that number five of the seven who served during major combat engagements.

Eisenhower (R) Army, Kennedy (D) Navy, Johnson (D) Navy, Nixon (R) (no service), Ford (R) Navy, Carter (D) Navy, Reagan (R) (no service), Bush (R) Navy, Clinton (D) (no service), Bush (R) (Air National Guard (failed flight medical)), Obama (D) (no service)

Finally tally ....

Republican - 4 (Eisenhower, Ford, Bush, Bush)
Democrats - 3 (Kennedy, Johnson, Carter)

no service - 4