We went to a "regular" grocery store tonight for the first time in about 2 months

[JanMichael]

Disgusting. This is a fairly "upscale" grocery. The "food" was crap: highly processed shit; in the vegetable section they had organic vegetables...but, give me a freaking break. 1.99 for a damned cucumber? I looked for cooking oil; the choices were either high end, prettily packaged virgin olive oil, canola or soybean (helloooo Monsanto)....no thanks. There was some wesson corn oil, but my wessonality was in a bad mood by then...so we passed.

The ONLY reason we went was to get toxic cleaning supplies like Drano, cat litter, and stamps.

We did pick up some canned crap...but, otherwise, left feeling completely grossed out.

God, this country has gone straight to hell. We listen to crap, eat crap, breathe crap....

I am going to bed.

[Brickbat]

1. Where do you usually go?

[JanMichael]

4. The local coops and farmers markets

nt

[Brickbat]

7. Of course.

And lefties wonder why their attitudes turn people off.

[leftstreet]

9. +1

[JanMichael]

14. really? then tell me WHY my grocery bills are CHEAPER

than the crap we saw tonight. CHEAPER. No HFCS shit; no highly processed crap...and our bills are cheaper than the garbage we saw tonight.

[Brickbat]

19. Because of your privilege.

I don't think it's because of your outrage and dismay that you feel when you have to shop in a "regular" grocery store, although you have plenty of that, too.

[JanMichael]

20. Perhaps you should read what I wrote, because clearly you didn't "get it."

I am grossed out ANYONE has to eat the fucking slop we call food in this country.

We are NOT that damned privileged; we are vegetarians that buy bulk TP and stuff from Costco...and only go to the grocery store about every two weeks to get vegetables and fruit to supplement a primarily whole grain based diet.

We also drive 15 year old cars, and mostly walk every where.

[Brickbat]

36. Privilege isn't only about money; it's also about access.

It's also about having the time, space and money to garden; the time to prepare food from scratch; the space to store food, and on and on. Swooping in and clutching one's chest about the "fucking slop" in the "regular" grocery store, honestly, leaves this regular-grocery-shopper going "WTF?"

[JanMichael]

37. No shit. That's why I am so grossed out

Did you NOT get the point of the post?

Crap sold in regular grocery stores is garbage; it's utter fucking garbage.

We are NOT privileged; we sure as hell don't have any money. It's insane how this country is forced to freaking live.

I cannot wait to have a yard...cannot wait. We are going to try (if it's possible) to get off the grid as much as we can.

That's the number one reason we gave up meat.

[Brickbat]

41. Privilege isn't only about money; it's also about access.

Which you clearly have. You can walk to places you want to go to. You can buy the food you want, instead of the food you have to. You have the time, money, energy, inclination and space to grow some food, and are going to be in a position to grow even more. That is privilege.

I'm wondering what, exactly, set you off in the "regular" grocery store. I also highly doubt that people who shop there can't possibly find a way to feed themselves in a generally healthy way. I don't doubt, however, that it couldn't possibly reach the expectations for how people should eat.

[JanMichael]

44. Ok....let's take it from the top. slowly, for your benefit. ready?

1. quit assuming we are privileged. We live where we do because we cannot afford new cars to commute in. We drive less than 10 miles a week between us. I know this is a major shock to you, but some poor people actually walk.

2. The grocery store in question is a popular southern chain; one may see them everywhere in NC.

3. We generally go to Costco once a month and buy bulk TP, and other non perishables.

4. We are vegetarians. We do drink milk and eat butter, eggs, yogurt and cheese.

5. There is a very small co-op that is about 2 miles from here: they sell dairy from the farm down the road....it is just as cheap or cheaper than the shit we saw tonight. The co-op sells bulk grains and dried beans. Cheaply. We buy those.

6. Time? It is faster to dump dried beans in a slow cooker than it is to prepare much of the prepackaged expensive horseshit we saw this evening.

7. You are brainwashed if you think that walking, and tossing veggies in a pot makes a person privileged.

8. It's my opinion that lefties like you are part of the problem.

9. Time to garden? Who in the hell here can afford a freaking garden? We have a small porch, and loaded the planters last year with 50 cents worth of seeds and grew our own salads. Kid you not. How hard was that?

[bluestate10]

96. Isn't your post a case of dietary nazism?

Hundreds of millions of americans chose to shop at what you call "regular" grocery stores. Cut the horse-shit, if you want more people to make the choices that you make then figure out a way to allow them to make those choices instead of spending precious time trashing the choices that others make. I was happy to see that one poster took you on, but after reading and reading decided that the poster was wasting his or her time with an extremist that only sees life through a tiny lens.

[guardian]

111. The OP can't hear you

He is too busy patting himself on the back.

[JanMichael]

164. you are right; I can't hear "him or her." But, more than likely

I haven't been able to in awhile.

Exactly how am I patting myself on the back? Because I can't go to a grocery store and buy healthy stuff without spending a fortune? You know what? Neither can you, or anyone else on this thread. Maybe you should get off your high horse and take a good look at the Monsanto frank 'n food crap in your kitchen, and then think about what you are eating.

[Aerows]

122. Why is it someone else's responsibility

to figure out how to give other people access to farmer's markets and co-ops, how to talk to their neighbors and trade different things that you grow (if you can grow something) - or plan a trip to a farmer's market/co-op together to save money, or just open up the damn phone book and see what IS available in your neighborhood?

You may not like the OP's tone, but the OP DID end up offering some tips on different places to go and things to do like beans in a slow cooker.

Is being capable of opening a phone book a sign of being "privileged", because everyone on this message board is capable of reading since they managed to get here.

[bluestate10]

137. The OP was full of condescension. People that shop at 'regular' grocery

stores are poisoning themselves according the the OP. Mortality statistics do not support of de-construct what the OP claims. This is going to enrage some, and frankly given the obvious air of superiority of the OP. Why is it that we don't hear about what went wrong with the lives of their body are vegan palaces celebrities like Linda McCarthy, who died very young and was one of the purest vegetarians imaginable? A person can kill themselves by eating food rich in salt and fats, but grocery stores offer many other alternatives. Yet, a vegan putting what they see as the purest substances into their bodies have no certainty that their lives will be long and that their bodies will not turn on them.

[Aerows]

121. You are privileged

because you took the time to educate yourself on how to eat better and incorporate it into your life instead of whining about how difficult it is to eat better, apparently

I thought you gave some very sensible tips on how to eat better - and I agree with you that there is a lot of crap in our food. I'm no "food nazi" either - I DO eat from McDonald's and Taco Bell, but I try to limit it.

I guess it's just easier to complain about how privileged someone else is than it is to change habits.

[Sherman A1]

85. Privilege also includes...

"attitude", but the OP is on a roll.............

[JanMichael]

38. I see that you changed your post: again, I write "NO SHIT."

You really don't get this do you? The fact that regular grocery shoppers aren't screaming to high hell about the chemicals in their "food"; the fact that most people don't even have access to get decent food....

HELLO! That you ARE NOT ranting is the reason I am.

btw-- we drove PAST the co-op to get our chemical laden cleaning shit.

[Brickbat]

42. My original complaint was with how you worded it.

We're not communicating, although I suspect that in the end, we are generally on the same side. In the meantime, buy a plumber's snake next time; you'll never have to get Drano at the "regular," "full of fucking crap" grocery store again.

[SOS]

156. In Know Nothing America, information = elitism

Over the past 40 years this country's agriculture has been taken over by a handful of giant corporations.
The death of the family farm is 1980s news, long forgotten by the general public.

These mega-corporations (ConAgra, Monsanto, ADM, IBP) wreak destruction on the land, on labor and on food quality.
They have become oligarchic in their control, from seed to microwave wrapper.
They create environmental disaster through pesticide and nitrogen overuse, soil erosion, monoculture and massive concentrations of animal waste. .
They injure human health through antibiotic and hormone use.
They often have disease outbreaks (salmonella, e. coli, listeria etc) having bought off the regulators.
They destroy the livelihoods of small farmers.
They exploit their labor and destroy rural communities.
They have lobbyists purchasing the endless deregulation of their grotesque practices.
They get the trade agreements they want to maximize profit. In 2005 the US became a net food importer for the first time in history!

These corporations don't give a damn about nutrition, taste or quality.

Their goal is to enrich their executives and drive up their stock price.
The "food" is whatever the public will continue to accept.

[JanMichael]

161. Yep. And what's offered at the regular grocery store sucks; AND is expensive

utter crap. I didn't walk past much that wasn't either frank 'n food, animals killed in disgusting plants, eggs from that horrid nasty huge barns, or the upscale organic shit that we frankly can't afford.

BUT! I am called an "elitist."

God help this country.

[SOS]

169. A n observation on organics

Conventional grocery stores mark up organics to absurd levels.
They view organics as a "specialty" and soak their more affluent customers.

In health food stores that sell only organics (higher volume/better wholesale prices) you may find the prices more reasonable.

Some comparisons in my neighborhood:

Organic yogurt 6 oz:
conventional store $1.59
health food store $.99

Turbinado organic sugar:
conventional store $6.99
health food store $3.99

Edensoy soy milk:
conventional store $3.49
health food store $1.99

And the difference between a commercial strawberry and an organic is definitley worth the price.
The commercial strawberries are big, red, flavorless rocks with a weird, dry white interior.
The organics are smaller, softer, red and juicy inside and taste like...strawberries!

[shimmergal]

97. Thanks, Brickbat.

When one lives in a desert like we do, there's not all that much available in the few farmers' markets, and almost always, the Whole Foods produce and other stuff they sell is overpriced and unappetizing.
I do admire people who're vegetarians for ethical reasons, but that gets cancelled out when they (or anybody else) just ooze a sense of superiority over their food choices.

[Texasgal]

40. Does Costo NOT sell processed

CRAP?

I thought you could buy it in BULK?

[JanMichael]

49. Probably; wouldn't know

generally we are in the Toilet Paper section. Sometimes they have good shampoo in huge 6 month long or more bottles too.

[bluestate10]

98. Check the labels on the shampoo and toilet paper. And cut out the holier than thou BS. nt

[BOG PERSON]

188. because you can't buy the kind of proletarian dignity

that comes with years and years of steady corn-feeding

[bobbolink]

33. !!

:applause:

[JanMichael]

34. so, you are applauding me ranting because this shit is being

sold as "food."

You do understand that this crap is what poor people who have no means of going anywhere else, or gardening are forced to suck down, yet you think it's OK to applaud the fact that I am upset about it.

?

Did you even READ what I wrote? Or do you just jump on the bandwagon when you see someone attempt to make a post sound elitist?

[Zorra]

45. Wow. That's real some crazy uncalled for shit right there. nt

[underpants]

150. I agree. Seems that some people have succumbed to caricatures and marketing

Caricatures of "lefties" and marketing that brainwashes them to only go to grocery stores.

[Ellipsis]

48. Lefties? You got that how?

[GoneOffShore]

55. What is that supposed to mean?

Supporting local organic farmers isn't a good thing?

Gosh, I guess I should re-think 20 years of supporting local CSA's so that I don't "turn off" my PathMark shopping, Monsanto eating, Coca Cola and Budweiser drinking neighbors.

That and get a Stars and Bars flag to fly from the 2nd story window and a "This House Protected by Smith and Wesson" sticker for the front door.

[hfojvt]

107. supporting local organic farmers is one thing

getting all uppity about what other people are eating is another.

[COLGATE4]

133. +100

[freshwest]

65. It's hard to get good local produce with the trade agreements.

[Le Taz Hot]

127. +1

And a garden if you have one. Nothing like going garden grazing.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. ...

:hug:

[uppityperson]

3. Where do you usually shop?

[JanMichael]

6. co-ops and farmers markets

High fructose corn syrup hasn't been in our house in years.

AND! the stuff we get? the healthy shit? is CHEAPER.

[uppityperson]

11. And your OP is the reason you shop there. I know, processed stuff is so prevalent and

crap. I want it to warm up here so I can get my garden in!

[JanMichael]

25. We need to buy a house

currently living in a town home with a small porch; last year we turned the porch into a "salad porch" with greens, tomatoes, and cukes. It was easy, and fun....But! We really need a yard so we can get some pet chickens and grow more food. ;)

[LiberalLoner]

5. Where do you normally get your groceries? I agree with you BTW, although

I go to the local Wegman's here which does have a good produce and meat section. But produce seems to be pretty expensive, I have to say.

K&R

[WhiteTara]

8. Replace the Draino with Baking Soda and Vinegar

works so great, I couldn't believe it. I use it regularly. I try to never use toxic chemicals when there are much nicer (not to mention CHEAPER) alternatives. And BTW, did you know you can get your own stamps on line account with cheaper prices? I love that too.

[JanMichael]

10. Googling that now

thanks for the suggestion! We already switched to Charlies washing powder years ago...7 bucks for a big old can of it...lasts for months :)

[uppityperson]

13. Bon Ami for cleanser. Basically sand stuff with minor amounts of other stuff. No chlorine

for when you need to clean 'cause your mom is visiting and that sort of thing.

[DeschutesRiver]

27. We just cleaned the bathroom sink drain with baking soda and vinegar

Haven't needed to use Drano in years - really works. I use the baking soda first with a bit of water, let it alone for a bit, rinse it down with very hot water; the baking soda forms a goopy mess that attaches to whatever is down there, and the hot water eases it all out the pipes. Sometimes, I have to do it quite a few times, but eventually it clears. I then dump some b. soda down, follow it with vinegar and stuff a towel over it so the fizz stays down there working out anything that is left.

I make our laundry soap - fels naptha (ground fine), washing soda and borax. There are recipes for this online (powder or liquid soap) and it takes very little of it to do a wash (I've heard that Charlies works well too, though I haven't had to try it since making my own!). I use vinegar instead of fabric softener.

Never thought it would work, but these things work better than what I used to buy pre-made.

[DeschutesRiver]

28. We just cleaned the bathroom sink drain with baking soda and vinegar

Haven't needed to use Drano in years - really works. I use the baking soda first with a bit of water, let it alone for a bit, rinse it down with very hot water; the baking soda forms a goopy mess that attaches to whatever is down there, and the hot water eases it all out the pipes. Sometimes, I have to do it quite a few times, but eventually it clears. I then dump some more b. soda down, follow it with vinegar and stuff a towel over it so the fizz stays down there working out anything that is left.

I make our laundry soap - fels naptha (ground fine), washing soda and borax. There are recipes for this online (powder or liquid soap) and it takes very little of it to do a wash (I've heard that Charlies works well too, though I haven't had to try it since making my own!). I use vinegar instead of fabric softener.

Never thought it would work, but these things work better than what I used to buy pre-made.

[JanMichael]

30. Charlies is basically the same thing

but, since we started using it, years ago, we haven't needed fabric softener. I would love to make my own, but, since my wife has been in grad school, there hasn't been much time. maybe this summer....

[DeschutesRiver]

70. I remember the time constraints due to being in grad school

Never had enough time to do all the things I wanted to do - true, that it is easier to find the time, now that I'm at a different stage of life...

[Contrary1]

35. I use the home made laundry soap (liquid) in the dishwasher too.

Works better than the name brands, which were etching all my glasses.

[DeschutesRiver]

71. I'm going to look into doing that, too (have had issues with dw soap here). nt

[WhiteTara]

43. I don't know Charles. Is he/it chemical free?

I would love a big ole can, but at what price to the septic?

edited to add: You will love the soda/vinegar trick. It unclogged a very disgusting hair clogged drain just like that!

[JanMichael]

46. link

we just use the laundry powder; the other stuff is pretty expensive...the laundry powder costs us about 3 bucks a month! And, no softener needed. It's so amazing!

http://www.charliesoap.com/orderNow.asp?cartID=5591DDEBBD5A47C2917C1D05FDBC3313

[WhiteTara]

79. I use Mrs. Meyers Clean Day

and the laundry soap is 14.99 for 64 loads. It's really great too. I buy it from Soap.com I like them and they also have vitamins at reasonable prices.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. Be glad you live where you have choices in where to shop.

I live in the country and we don't have choices. They have been taken away from us.
And we have to drive to get to those lack-of-choice monopolies.

[JanMichael]

16. Do you have a garden? or chickens?

If we lived in the country, we wouldn't have to shop that much at all. We are vegetarians. I would have to stock up on some bulk grains, and cat food...but, that's about it.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

54. growing onions. Have some wild asparagus on the back acre.

Too hot to grow broccoli and spinach.
Mostly growing flowers.

In a couple of months it will be too hot to work for more than 20 minutes at a time.

[JanMichael]

57. if you can grow flowers, you can grow tomatoes, cukes and squash

? It's not that hard or time consuming.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

80. I eat none of those. In fact, I'm allergic to tomatoes and peppers.

I don't eat most of the things they grow here.

I like plums, onions and strawberries. Am growing strawberries and onions.

I have two little plum trees and don't know how many years old they have to be to fruit.

Too hot to grow spinach or broccoli.

[DeschutesRiver]

72. The nearest town to us is a 50 mile round trip, so

I've learned to make substitutes with what I have on hand, and to make sure I always have some basics in the pantry that will help me make things that I can't justify driving that far to get when I want them.

Like when I wanted tarter sauce, I just got a recipe online and made it with stuff on hand; same for baking powder (never worry now about expiration dates or the aluminum added to the commercial stuff). Doesn't work for everything I need, but I try to need only what I have. But where I choose to live definitely means I have to make choices in a way that living in town never required.

[BlueJazz]

15. I look for these delicious ingredients in my food.

•acesulfame-K (acesulfame potassium)
•acetylated esters of mono- and diglycerides
•ammonium chloride
•azodicarbonamide
•benzoyl peroxide
•BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole)
•BHT (butylated hydroxytoluene)
•bleached flour
•bromated flour
•brominated vegetable oil (BVO)
•calcium bromate
•calcium disodium EDTA
•calcium peroxide
•calcium propionate
•calcium saccharin
•calcium sorbate
•calcium stearoyl-2-lactylate
•caprocaprylobehenin
•carmine
•certified colors
•cyclamates
•cysteine (l-cysteine), as an additive for bread products
•DATEM (Diacetyl tartaric and fatty acid esters of mono and diglycerides)
•dimethylpolysiloxane
•dioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate (DSS)
•disodium calcium EDTA
•disodium dihydrogen EDTA
•disodium guanylate
•disodium inosinate
•EDTA
•ethyl vanillin
•ethylene oxide
•ethyoxyquin
•foie gras
•GMP (disodium guanylate)
•hexa-, hepta- and octa-esters of sucrose
•high fructose corn syrup
•hydrogenated fats
•IMP (disodium inosinate)
•irradiated foods
•lactylated esters of mono- and diglycerides
•methyl silicon
•methylparaben
•microparticularized whey protein derived fat substitute
•monosodium glutamate (MSG)
•natamyacin
•nitrates/nitrites
•partially hydrogenated oil
•polydextrose
•potassium benzoate
•potassium bisulfite
•potassium bromate
•potassium metabisulfite
•potassium sorbate
•propionates
•propyl gallate
•propylparaben
•saccharin
•sodium aluminum phosphate
•sodium aluminum sulfate
•sodium benzoate
•sodium bisulfite
•sodium diacetate
•sodium glutamate
•sodium nitrate/nitrite
•sodium propionate
•sodium stearoyl-2-lactylate
•sodium sulfite
•solvent extracted oils, as standalone single-ingredient oils (except grapeseed oil).
•sucralose
•sucroglycerides
•sucrose polyester
•sulfites (sulfur dioxide)
•TBHQ (tertiary butylhydroquinone)
•tetrasodium EDTA

[JanMichael]

17. sounds yummy.

:)

[newspeak]

151. Your food rant reminds me of my son's friend

It was in the nineties, we were going up to the mountains and my son wanted to take his friend along. He had allergies to food additives, preservatives-I spoke with his mother about what he could and could not eat. One thing she told me was that their physician said that it was becoming more common seeing children with these food allergies.

Living in Utah, my friend's hubby was a retired professor who was asked to come back to California to do research on a possible link to colas and the suppression of the immune system.

I think maybe more europeans may be more aware of what they eat than we do-PR industry does a great job selling here.

[donco]

18. yum yum

[datasuspect]

114. chemicals are natural too!

some chemicals are organic compounds.

[Liquorice]

21. My husband and I had the same experience. We went into a regular supermarket

last week after not having been in one in quite a while and were thoroughly disgusted. The food quality is markedly poor and the store is basically filled with junk food that is full of perservatives and alarming levels of salt and high fructose corn syrup. It's very sad. Neither of us could believe that we used to do all our grocery shopping there.

[JanMichael]

22. it's flat out horrifying

Someone up thread referred to us as "privileged..." MISSING that this place was an upscale store. THIS is where the Republicans shop....this is what passes for freaking "food" in this ridiculous new world.

[emmadoggy]

76. That poster was trying to point out that you are

"privileged" to have the CHOICE of shopping at co-ops and farmer's markets. They are not readily available to all of us.

They were not saying you are privileged financially.

[datasuspect]

115. i don't understand how it's privileged

if you're anywhere in the US, you are close to some form of agriculture.

Hell, even in a major city, even if you don't have a car, public transit can take you at least 50 miles outside of any MSA. And I'm thinking of the logistics involved in getting out to farm country to buy stuff from farmers (which you don't really have to do).

If it's privileged to be more thoughtful about what you put in your body, and to take the time necessary to make the best nutritional choices, then I guess the OP is privileged.

In other words, it seems like stupid people are slamming the OP for not putting poison in his body.

[riderinthestorm]

119. Then you have not been poor.

After working 12 - 16 hrs per day, you then take a bus commuting some other number of hours home. That MAY leave you 7 hours per day to sleep, clean, hug your kids, grocery shop, prep food, make dinner, create lunches for said children ....

While being "close to agriculture" sounds fine, the reality for the working poor is that they pick up dinner at the nearest corner to bring home on an hour long bus ride to ensure they get 5 hours of sleep to slog through the rest of their lives. A 50 mile commute outside the city to a CSA is incomprehensible. Days off are spent getting to a laundrymat for fucks sakes and that takes ALL day when you are poor.

In other words, the OP is an entitled person who has a car and time and access to a kitchen to prepare food, and the time to shop at places other than the extortionist local corner market.

Get a grip, and actually begin to live this life before you slam those who disagree with the OP.

[datasuspect]

120. you really have some strange form of investment in all of this, don't you?

you should try going outside more often.

when was the last time you worked 12-16 hours per day?

how many days in a row?

doing what?

and guess what?

if someone did work 16 hours every day for at least 5 days per week, then they'd be doing better than someone who is actually POOR, someone who doesn't have a fucking job.

your dramatic comments don't hold any water, because out of any poor people i've ever known, no one was working 16 hours per day.

[JVS]

157. I don't know many people who work 12-16 hours a day.

But I know quite a few people who work 8 hours a day and spend 4 hours (2 from and 2 back) commuting on the bus because they have no car, live in the shitty neighborhood across town from where the jobs are, and the bus sucks.

[riderinthestorm]

216. I can and do work 12 - 16 hrs/day every single day of the year. I'm a farmer

so for me that's normal and I make enough.

But many poor people work a regular 8 hour day, and then work a second job for 2 - 4 hours/day.

And they are called the WORKING POOR for a reason. They work and yet they are still very, very poor.

I have people who work for me who work 10 hours at another farm and then come by me and put in another 2 or 3 hours/day. They work 6 or 7 days/week, making minimum wage. I know these people personally.

Your rebuttal holds no water for me because I actually know and work with poor people. Daily. I've also been poor and done double shifts, often many days in a row. If you don't "know" anyone who is doing this, I'd say you haven't really been dialoguing with them, or you don't "really" know them.

And FWIW, I'm outside all day, every day 24/7. Rain, cold, snow, freeze, humid, extreme heat....

[Denninmi]

23. If you stick to staples, raw, and unprocessed foods, you'll do better.

It's quite simple and amazing -- cook from scratch, using basic ingredients, and your diet will be full of much healthier foods. Buy the simple, most pure, minimally processed ingredients that you can afford. Instead of buying pre-processed chicken products, for example, buy fresh, raw chicken that is NOT pumped full of solutions to "enhance it."

And yes, I have poultry, bees, and 2 acres of gardens, so I grow and preserve as much of my own food as I can. I made 11 quarts of maple syrup this year, too.

[JanMichael]

24. didn't read the post, eh? ;)

We are vegetarians. We mostly eat unprocessed meals from bulk grains supplemented with whole fresh vegetables, fruit, yogurt, and farm eggs.

Right there with you.

[LiberalLoner]

26. Those foods taste the best too! n/t

[datasuspect]

116. i call it the "one ingredient food" diet

and i don't get into the nitty gritty of much of it, but generally speaking, if something has more than one ingredient in it, i probably won't eat it.

and i'm counting chicken or beef as a single ingredient, zucchini or lettuce as a single ingredient, etc.

[elocs]

29. Where I live if you are low income you cannot begin to afford to go to the co-op here.

Neither can you afford to buy organic at the supermarket, but you can make healthy choices. However, people with money can shop wherever they choose.

[JanMichael]

32. we don't have money. Wife getting last paycheck tomorrow

for god knows how long. Bulk grains and dried beans....we go to the coop because it's cheap. We don't buy the upscale stuff like maple syrup and stuff....just the basics. TP and other stuff comes from Costco.

[madmom]

155. Don't you have to pay for the privilege of shopping at costco? Poor people can't afford that.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KT2000]

39. A nice story

A family from Eastern Washington would go to a main highway in Seattle on the weekends to sell their fresh produce at a roadside stand. They slept in their station wagon during the weekend and went home on Sunday nights. They had a successful business.

Years later they moved to NW Washington (Sequim) where they opened a permanent produce stand. They kept their farmland in Eastern Washington. The store was so successful they eventually covered it with a roof and wooden sides. They started carrying all kinds of natural products and their business just kept growing. They just kept building new wood walls to make a bigger building. The windows are heavy duty plastic and it is warmed with a wood stove during the winter. The aisles are barely wide enough for a cart.

It has been 30 years and their business just keeps growing. Now, their grown son raises beef that is free of antibiotics, hormones etc. that is sold in the store. The father still oversees the fields in Eastern WA that grow some of the produce they sell in the store. They have a couple semis to transport the produce to Western WA. They carry a complete line of produce, some organic, they have a deli and a butcher shop and a garden shop. The prices for produce are about 1/2 - 1/3 less than the chain stores.

One day some "suits" came to the store and just stood around watching what was going on. As usual, the store was crowded. When the manager finally asked them who they were and what they were doing, they said they were from Kroger and they were trying to figure out why this was the #1 store in the area and why Kroger was losing so much of their business to them.

This store does not have time to practice "marketing" - they just have to keep restocking their shelves.

[JanMichael]

47. Love it!!!

Yet there are people here...even with the cheaper prices that would say that is elitist.

I give up!

[freshwest]

74. It's possible they live in areas called 'food deserts' where there is no fresh food. No kidding.

So they adjust but it's hard on their health, and I resent that so many people in this country have been experiencing this with the rich eating caviar or whatever weird thing they want. And it seems that the small farm and city people don't get to connect much. Brazil solved this and it was covered in this article:

http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/food-for-everyone/the-city-that-ended-hunger

We could do so much more in this country if we were not wedded to this monetary system that makes the necessities of life a market instead of right, enforcing a class or caste system, take your pick.

The food desert ares are the places where community gardens help, although those seem to be harder to arrange as well. As far as the farmer's market, it's almost impossible to get to one here where I live. For a while some people from Yakima ran a produce market but it was very seasonal, closed most of the year.

I asked why we couldn't find that great stuff in our supermarkets since they were growing it. The stores seemed to favor food shipped in from Mexico, Central and and South America and even Australia and China. The farm owners told me it was because there are quotas.

Besides not supporting local people, the produce shipped in was that it had been kept in cold storage for so long, that within days it rotted on the shelves. The stores tried to pretend that it wasn't bad, sometimes it was almost impossible to get anything that wasn't half rotted or soon to be. That's depressing so I make it a priority to go to the store the same day it arrives if I can. But it doesn't last long at home, either.

[tblue37]

84. I love fruit--absolutely love it--but I can't eat most of the fruit from the

local supermarket. If I buy a peach, plum, or nectarine, it is just disgusting. The flesh is weird or cardboardy, and it has no flavor, or else it is actually bad inside, even though the outside looks good.

Sometimes I can get decent apples or bananas, but often the apples also have weird flesh texture and no flavor. Maybe these fruits are all being frozen or something before being put out for sale? I don't know. I just know that it is inedible and terribly, terribly frustrating.

Even cherries and grapes are usually bad when I buy them, even if they look okay on the outside. Strawberries have no flavor at all, and the same for tomatoes. Nothing has any flavor, and almost everything has funky, nasty flesh or is actually bad inside!

[bluestate10]

100. The problem is that fruit is chilled beyond what allows it to continue to ripen.

One of the hazards of shipping food. Local is better for those that can find it at a reasonable price.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. I find that for what I buy

the food co-op is either the same or cheaper than what I can get at the upscale local chain supermarket (Lund's).

The local downscale chain (Rainbow) is cheaper for cleaning supplies, but I rarely buy food there. It's all packaged and processed crap, except for two aisles of marked-up "natural" foods from major manufacturers (Organic Valley, etc.)

However, most low-income people have no food co-ops within a reasonable distance, and a lot of affluent people, especially in the suburbs, are so busy running here and there that they just grab a frozen pizza or something.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

51. Restaurants are terrible, too

My boss gave me a very generous restaurant gift certificate for Admin Day yesterday. My husband and I rarely eat at restaurants unless we are traveling, so it's been a while. This was a chain restaurant. I could not believe how oversalted and over-fat every single thing was.

It was gross.

[JanMichael]

52. Yep. sickening

I can't even think about fast food; it seems "cheap" til you look at the crap in it.

[flvegan]

53. Honestly...were you surprised?

People in this country (and others) buy what they want. Far too many folks either don't know or don't care what shit they cram in their faces to fuel the body. They know what gas to put in the car and when to change the oil, but not what to eat. Makes me just shake my head.

Other problem is that far too many folks are just eating to survive. I can't fault them on their choices.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

56. JanMichael, I agree with you

I work long hours, and don't have time to really cook, I'm not much of a cook, anyway - I have to depend on meals that can be prepared fast and on the fly. I don't have the time to go to the farmers market, and I spend way too much of my limited shopping time at the grocery store looking for products that do not have sugar added. I can just about go down a whole aisle and not find one thing that isn't packed with sugar of some type.

Sugar, especially HFCS, is in everything, salad dressing, cereal, and especially those products that are cheap and can be prepared fast. I can't even find instant oatmeal that doesn't have sugar in it, even the "regular" flavor. I usually eat fruit mixed with unflavored yogurt for breakfast and pack almonds, dried fruit and salad mixes for my fast lunches. I agree with you, there is something seriously wrong with our food supply.

[JanMichael]

58. Thank you!

It's flipping miserable, isn't it!? Btw-- get a slow cooker....you can dump dried split peas, some vegetable broth cubes, grated carrot, and chopped onion in...turn that sucker on, and have awesome soup for two days. Costs about 2 dollars for 5 servings or more....and takes about 15 minutes or less. Fastest lunch around- and no weird stuff in it.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

59. the two things i do cook are split pea soup

and lentil stew. :) was forced to learn due to my financial situation, and again, because you can't find decent, cheap, healthy, fast food at the grocery store. :)

[JanMichael]

61. We eat split pea soup all winter

I tried to make a good "lentil loaf" that could be used for "meat"loaf dinners, and then sliced for sandwiches, but I can't get the recipe right; I use eggs and cooking oil, and it's still dry-

[merh]

77. Forget that slow cooker

You need to look into getting a pressure cooker - you find you can cook in no time at all and cooking with the pressure cooker retains the nutrients.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/1990-09-01/Pressure-Cooking.aspx

Please give my best to Stephanie :hi:

[blueamy66]

90. How much water do you put in the crockpot?

??

[wickerwoman]

63. +1

I've totally been there and can't believe how much crap has HFCS too. I used to waste soooo much money because I thought I didn't have time to cook and just ate fast food and instant crap all the times. I could have quit one of my jobs and saved pretty much all of the money I was earning by cooking properly from scratch. And I remember being totally exhausted all the time and using it a reason not to cook when really if I had been eating better I wouldn't have been so tired. It's a really vicious cycle.

Just wanted to say that "instant" oatmeal is one of the biggest rip-offs in the grocery store. I just buy bulk rolled oats- put 1/2c oats with 1c water and a little salt and microwave it for 2-3 minutes. Then add whatever flavorings you like (honey, sugar, cinnamon, dried fruit, etc.) It costs less than a quarter of those instant packets, tastes better, has more fiber, is more filling and you can control what goes into it. And it doesn't take a second longer to fix than "instant" oatmeal.

Don't get me started on boil in the bag rice or instant pancake/biscuits mixes either... American grocery stores have a very high, secret tax on people who lack basic cooking skills.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

66. Thanks on the instant oatmeal tip

I'll try that.

[Raksha]

123. I never buy instant oatmeal in the little ripoff packets.

"Quick Oats" in the 42-oz canister are the same as the old-fashioned oats, but just cut a little finer so they cook faster. No added sugar or other ingredients. I cook mine in the microwave the same way you do and have it for breakfast practically every morning.

[anarch]

60. that doesn't sound like a "regular" grocery store to me

everything costs too much at all the "regular" stores I go to, but I don't know what to say about the overpriced organic vegetables and fancy olive oil and whatnot. That sounds fancy.

to your point though, everything does indeed cost too much, and I don't know how anyone affords anything nice these days.

[bertman]

62. Great post. This Tarheel salutes your ingenuity and resourcefulness. And your

healthy eating habits.

Lots of good tips in this thread.

REC.

[freshwest]

64. JanMichael, I don't understand the Leftie thing, although I understand some may feel offended...

At what they think is an attack on their diet. I understand you are concerned about the poor food people are being sold. It's a very personal thing, wrapped up in family, tradition, and income. I really like what you say you're doing to cut down.

I had to give up processed food because I was so ill, I had to get radical. To some people eating vegetarian, vegan or raw food is crazy or a luxury. Really, it's not. It works for me. Processed food makes me sick because of added ingredients. I had to stop eating out a while back to not have 36-hour or more vomiting spells. Now I couldn't afford it anyway, not even fast food fits my budget. But I'm not complaining.

I found I could not buy meat and processed food on my budget, which is half what it was last year, which was half than the year before, etc. Food prices have always been sky high here. No way out but trimming everything and not able to afford doctors either. Giving up meat has saved me a lot of money, and I could not buy any carrots, greens or fruit without it.

Now I only go to the produce sections or buy the cheapest bulk grains and beans. We do have some really decent stores where I live, but I hardly shop at all anymore, just drink more water and do without. I buy canned goods at Big Lots.

A few years ago I saw most people in my area making the same changes I was making, and they seemed to be much higher income than me. People were worried about food shortages and inflation. They somberly weighed their choices and denied themselves.

I hope you can get that house to grow things. It's wonderful to be at that time of your life that you can plan such things. That won't happen for me again, as my family lost everything taking care of catastrophic illness suffered by family members over the years. But we survived, the material things didn't matter all that much.

So I content myself with growing sprouts and using leftover vegetable parts to start plants in my window to supplement my diet when I'm having a really short month. I'm used to buying at the thrift store, reusing, repairing or doing without. In my life, gratitude for what I have no matter how it compares to others, makes me feel well off. Even the fact that I have roof over my head during the stormy winters gives me satisfaction, because I know what it's like to not have one. My little studio seems luxurious to me.

Good luck.

[Lucian]

67. Did you have to take a shower after being there around the "normies?"

:eyes:

While I agree that the foodstuff stores carry has gone to crap, some of us can only afford to buy that crap. Like you said, I can't afford to pay $1.00 for a cucumber.

Sometimes some of us have to get off our high horse and join reality.

[blueamy66]

91. Can you plant a garden?

I spent $2.50 for 2 japanese cuke plants and will have at least 10 cukes...at least...

But you gotta have the room. We have a smallish backyard, but we have a backyard. 4 raised planters and a bit of space at the end of our patio where we have grape vines.

Try it if you have the room.

I make the time. :-)

[bluestate10]

101. Bathed in vinegar and baking soda, probably. And used homemade soap as a chaser.

I found the OP to be a boatload of pretentious bull-shit. May be taking off the blinders and looking around more would educate the OP that there are chain grocers that are environmentally conscious and sell good food.

[datasuspect]

117. what, do you work for the chain grocers council or something?

[bluestate10]

138. No. But I do realize and accept that millions of people use the for

purchases of food and household products. That is one element that I did not see in the OP's rant.

[Control-Z]

68. I shop in a regular grocery store

and walk out satisfied every time. Imagine that.

[Liberal_in_LA]

94. I shop in regular grocery store, supplemented by trips to natural

stores and farmers markets.

[bluestate10]

103. Same here. I feel perfectly fine. nt

[bluestate10]

102. You heathen. :-) nt

[RebelOne]

108. So do I. Here in North Georgia and pretty much of the Southast

there are Kroger grocery stores. The prices are very good and there are always 10 for $10 specials. You don't have to buy 10 items, but each item is only $1.

[blueamy66]

130. Define "satisfied"?

What are you satisfied with? Your choices? The offerings of said grocery store?

[Hannah Bell]

69. i shop in a regular grocery store. somehow i still live.

[Rincewind]

73. And was the worst part

having to rub elbows with the commoners?

[Arugula Latte]

75. For drain cleaning -- this little gadget costs about three bucks and works miracles:

You just stick it down into your drain and pull up a big gob of hair and soap scum and gawd knows what else...Your drain flows free.

[JanMichael]

162. I've never seen that; that's cool- thanks for the info-- also, going to start

the vinegar thing the other person posted about.

[JCMach1]

78. I always marvel at the good food when I come home to visit in the US...

depends on your perspective...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

81. I cook my own food.

DH cooks stuff for himself like gumbo and shrimp.

I have a lot of allergies, no spicy stuff, no peppers other than black pepper, no tomatoes, no shellfish, so my food tends to be more bland meat and potatoes type stuff.

[taught_me_patience]

82. This post reeks of condescension

of normal people who shop at grocery stores.

[Liquorice]

83. I disagree. The quality of food at conventional grocery stores has

declined steadily over the years. A lot of it is really bad food. I don't think it's condescending to tell it like it is. Corporations are loading up food with garbage and conventional grocery stores spotlight that garbage because they get extra money from the corporations to do so. The giant food corporations just keep getting greedier and as a result the quality of the food just keeps getting worse. It's true. Americans should be furious with this sorry state of affairs and demand better.

[Sherman A1]

86. Precisely

It is all about condescension and little else.

If the place is so very bad then stay completely away, but odd how we must buy drain cleaner when baking soda/vinegar is such a common and easily discoverable one.

The post is about an attitude nothing more.

[Liquorice]

87. It's condescending to want your local grocery store to have quality food

and a fresh selection of produce that's good for you? America is truly falling apart if that is what's considered condescending. I suppose people should just be happy with their pesticide-laden heads of wilted lettuce and their boxes of chemically-fortified foods. If someone complains that this food is making Americans fat and sick, s/he is probably just an elitist anyway.

Maybe you don't realize how bad the average grocery store has become in terms of food quality because it has happened very gradually, but if you only shop at farmer's markets and other fresh markets for a while, and then step foot back in a conventional grocery store, you will be shocked. Grocery store food quality has become alarmingly poor and it's a very serious issue for everyone.

[Sherman A1]

89. Been in the Grocery Business for 38 Years and I have a real

good idea of the changes during that time frame. The post had very little to do with product quality beyond bashing. It was about "I am better than you because I do X and you do Y."

The local farmer's markets to which I have gone through the years are pretty much a joke in selection, pricing (and frankly I have no idea as to what pesticides are used or not used by the guy selling his wares there as there is no labeling) let alone food safety (something which my company takes exceptionally seriously).

I don't care where you or the OP shop, that's your business. As to food making us fat or sick, perhaps it has as much to do with more sedentary lifestyles, less physically demanding workplaces and simply putting too much into our mouths as it does with the chemical composition of our food products (which I will admit does have a bearing on the issue).

but again the OP's point was "I am better than you because I do X and you do Y.

[blueamy66]

92. My fiance's son works in a grocery store in FL, part-time

while he attends University.

He won't buy anything to eat there.

[Liquorice]

112. Yep, my brother has worked for a grocery store for many years, and

he is completely disgusted with the way food quality has deteriorated over the years. He has done all he can to get his store to carry better quality food, but it's an uphill battle with the major food corporations paying for prime space, etc.

[blueamy66]

126. Not only the food quality, but he tells stories

about what goes on in the stock rooms and where they butcher the meat and the produce dept.

Hopefully it's just the chain he works at....scary....

[bluestate10]

142. He can quit. I made that choice as a college student when I worked

for an ice cone maker and saw gross health violations happening. I quit, even as I desperately needed the job. My only regret is that I did not report the company to the local health department, even if they did nothing.

[blueamy66]

154. I know...he could quit.

But it's tough finding another job in the BIG college town that he lives in.

Plus, he found a girl there. :-)

[Skidmore]

93. Sounds like that to me as well.

Not everyone has a Costco or farmer's markets year round.

[Liquorice]

113. You seem awfully defensive and now I see why. You work in the business

and don't want to admit (or can't see) the truth. Too bad. You could work to make things better instead of fighting for the status quo.

And if you don't think it's the food that's making Americans sick, you're in a dream world. It's all the food. You can't exercise your way out of a bad diet.

I find YOUR tone know-it-all, condescending and quite frankly rude, and this will be my final post to you on the matter.

[KurtNYC]

118. I think television is making Americans sick

with a steady diet of fear, consumerism, confusion and negativity.

[bluestate10]

143. The poster delivered an honest assessment of both his work environment

and his choices as a consumer. There are some on DU that view every action that companies take as evil manipulations, when in fact, companies that care about their business work their asses off to make sure food that they sell is safe to consume. The last statement may, or may not be correct when applied to a person selling at a farmer's market. Are vegetables grown in composed manure healthier than vegetables grown in nitrogen rich fertilizer? Some will instinctively say yes, but I say, I am not sure.

[Sherman A1]

158. Defensive?

Me thinks that one might find a mirror and ask that very same question.

I find it intriguing that you seem to absolutely "know" that I have not been as you say "working to make things better." When I offered some alternative concepts, but I guess that was part of that whole "rude" thing.

Omnipotence must be a terrible burden to bear.

[bluestate10]

139. I agree. nt

[cameozalaznick]

215. No, I don't think that was the point the OP was making...

It was a matter of culture shock because of not visiting a "regular grocery store" in a while. If you're in the grocery business, then you know that a lot of the processed foods are simply not good for the human body. If I can't get to the farmers market, I just shop the periphery of the store -- produce, meats, dairy. I guess that makes me a condescending elitist? Just because I don't want to fill my body with crap?

You know, you end up paying for the cost of all those chemicals at the doctors office. Your choice.

[bluestate10]

106. The OP would not buy it if the grocer did. The post was all attitude, nothing else. nt

[Lucian]

99. That's why I replied the way I did.

I read this post as nothing more than condescending to people who shop at "normal" stores.

I'm betting the OP shops at Whole Foods or some other high-end grocery store.

[JanMichael]

124. no. The OP shops for stuff like bathroom items at Costco

and goes to a local co-op to buy bulk grains, dried beans, and some vegetables. Sorry. We can't afford Whole Foods.

But, thanks.

[sammytko]

128. I was surprised about the Drano buying also - baking soda and

vinegar are great for so many things. I clean the drains with it and sometimes wash my hair with it also. Always use vinegar as a softner in my sheets and towels. Used as a paste they do a great job of cleaning.

[bluestate10]

105. 100% agree. nt

[quinnox]

141. Agree, it is like a post that reinforces

a stereotype of the elitist lefty.

I shop at Albertsons grocery store all the time, and this OP does seem insulting in its tone.

[LLStarks]

88. A bodega is fine too... nt

[Quantess]

95. JanMichael, It's difficult to say all of this without sounding like an elitist

I agree with your sentiments, but nobody is going to rally around it when it smacks of condescenscion. There is inevitable backlash.

[JanMichael]

163. I know. And that's too bad, really. Because it's the damned truth. We as a country

have gone that far down hill. We eat crappy food, wear crappy clothes that are probably made by children in some cases, we treat our food animals like dirt...and when it comes to our attentions we scream: Elitist! Or I can't look at the photo on the front of DU! NOT: Damn...is that what the meat cows look like? Holy crap.....

No. We are going down the tubes. Fast.

[Quantess]

186. The dairy calf video is pretty sad.

It's not the worst video I have ever seen in my life, but it's bad.

Our food is not regulated like it should be. By that I mean the factory farms, not the farmers markets. Other countries have far more regulations and safety inspections, and their food is also safer to eat.

I disagree with you about the quality of clothing. It's gone up in quality, with staggeringly cheap prices. But absolutely it's because of the offshore 3rd world sweatshops.

[Stinky The Clown]

104. We hibernate during the non growing season.

That way we can skillfully avoid regular grocery stores here in our four season area.

In growing season, we only eat locally grown food that can be transported by hand drawn wagons (we also don't wish to stress horses by having them bear our burdens). The only meat we eat is that which is raw so as not to buy gas to cook it.

We also simply replace our clogged plumbing rather than use crap products like Drano.

Our cats run free so we save on having the endure the pain of seeing natural clay refined into that horrid cat litter so many tend to use.

[Chorophyll]

109. I certainly hope you compost the free-range cat poo.

;)

[Stinky The Clown]

110. The feline propensity to poop-and-bury means fre range cat poop is naturally composted

It goes quickly from soil amendment to compost with no human intervention.

See? We really do live right.

:)

[blueamy66]

131. Just keep your free range cat outta my yard...

okay? ;-)

[spinbaby]

125. I plan to go to the grocery store

And will find everything we need. Although there is a lot of junk food in the stores, it's perfectly easy to find the good stuff, too.

[monkeydog]

129. Thanks for proving their point

Do you know how smug, elitist and loony you sound?

Shut up and eat a god damned twinkie, food nazi.

[blueamy66]

132. Why should he eat a twinkie?

Why loony? Cause he makes sound food choices...choices that are his business to make?

Do you know how bitter you sound?

[monkeydog]

134. because....

"I looked for cooking oil; the choices were either high end, prettily packaged virgin olive oil, canola or soybean (helloooo Monsanto)....no thanks. There was some wesson corn oil, but my wessonality was in a bad mood by then...so we passed."

seriously? couldn't find OIL that met standards?

This post is about "look at me and how enlightened I am about food choices"

Why not eat a REGULAR cucumber?

When you get to the point that you can't even shop at the grocery store, or by freaking COOKING OIL, because of your food paranoia, you either have too much time/money on your hands, or you need get your head checked.

This is beyond healthy choices.

[blueamy66]

135. No, that is not was the post was about.

So he knows what he wants to put into his body. Sounds like an intelligent man to me. I wish I was as strict with my diet.

What is a REGULAR cucumber? You mean the ones in the neighborhood grocery store, covered with wax and pesticides? Yeah, go for it. I now grow my own so I don't have to spend $1 on a freaking crappy cuke.

I don't believe he is paranoid....just cares about what he eats.

And you still sound bitter. Sorry.

[monkeydog]

140. bitter is an interesting choice of words

obviously, I must bitter because I am not as cool, healthy, sexy, informed and as "pure" as you.

You are victim to a fashion trend and you don't even know it.

I have no problem with people being healthy. It's the ones who post on message boards about it, who drop the word "organic" into conversations, those who make point of explaining to waiters that they are "vegan" and then defining the term

It's no different than wearing designer labels or driving a BMW.

It's "me me me"

I suggest a balanced and rational approach. Eating a twinkie once in a blue moon isn't going to kill anyone.

And from what I can gather, twinkies ARE vegan!

In the meantime, it's off to Starbucks for my triple organic chai latte and a morning with my I-pad.

I wonder, should I shave and shower or go with the stubble and ironic bedhead look?

[blueamy66]

144. Well, yeah, I'm willing to bet that you aren't as cool, healthy

sexy or informed as me.

Most of my designer labels are Old Navy and I drive a 2004 Chevy Cavalier.

Do you have an issue with Orthodox Jewish people wanting to know everything that is in their food? Or how it was prepared?

I don't care how you look going to Starbucks...cause I won't have to see you there. I am not foolish enough to spend $5 on a stupid cup of coffee.

Have a nice Sunday!!

[monkeydog]

146. Wow just...

Wow. You just defined "obtuse"

Thank you for proving my point.

[blueamy66]

153. How did I prove your point?

Now you're the one that is being obtuse.

I'm off to tend to my garden...gotta get those beautiful homegrown veggies ready for my dinner table.

Oh, and welcome to DU!

[Name removed]

218. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JanMichael]

148. Whoa! You have a new car ;) Ours is a '98 Subie station wagon-

But, it only has 125,000 on it!

I can't see who you are arguing with; but I agree with everything you wrote. Too many people on DU argue for the status quo: Crummy food and cheap clothing at horrible prices...try to scream about it, and one becomes "elitist."

It's sad, and it's also a big reason not much will change.

[blueamy66]

152. I've got over 150k miles on my Cavalier

I love my little car! It gets me from Point A to Point B. I paid $3k for it 1 1/2 years ago.

[JanMichael]

160. Sweet! That's my kind of car-

Haven't made a car payment since 1991. :)

[blueamy66]

170. I refuse to have a car payment.

But we are lucky in that my fiance's company "gives" him a brand new car every 2 to 3 years, depending on many miles he has put on it. We have a gray Dodge Avenger now. Very pretty, but I'd never buy one.

[Motown_Johnny]

136. watch out for bedbugs

[southernyankeebelle]

145. I always thought if you eat organic it would be cheaper. But it is the opposite and it doesn't

taste any better.

[monkeydog]

147. Organic is a marketing term

Yes it is

[Quantess]

159. Not really.

For a farm to be called "organic", there are tons of fees and regulations. "Organic" is not a meaningless label, at all.

[JanMichael]

165. That's why we generally can't afford it

I know the supermarket, and our friends that grow 'maters use pesticides, etc. But, I also know that it isn't mansanto's garbage we are sucking down...nor does it have that weird "wax" on it to make it look better.

[Odin2005]

167. "Organic" is a fucking overpriced JOKE.

[blueamy66]

174. Not in my backyard garden it isn't.

I'd never pay for it in a grocery store.

I watched a lady in front of me in line with about 10 items in the "organic bags". I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the total. Holy crap that stuff is expensive.

[JanMichael]

149. We don't really aim for "organic" as much as this thread implies

probably farmer's market stuff, and our neighbor's tomatoes aren't "certifiable." What we do care about is keeping HFCS and Monsanta garbage out of our house.

[Odin2005]

166. If all you find at a regular grocery store is crap then you aren't looking very hard.

I live right across the street from a grocery store, the first part of the store is FRESH PRODUCE.

The elitist condescension in your OP is disgusting.

[JanMichael]

168. How fresh? And what kind of wax/chemicals were used to keep them looking that

way?

How am I condescending because I wish stores would carry decent food?

You sound as if you need to educate yourself.

[Kip Humphrey]

171. packing the freshies in nitrogen to prolong shelf/shipping life = spoilage in 1/2 the time.

This is what chain store organics are reduced to: fresh fruits & vegetables are not fresh anymore.

[JanMichael]

172. We don't buy the organics; can't afford them

and the regular produce looked like chemical laden waxed crap.

[cherokeeprogressive]

173. Which of these apples is waxed or chemical laden? All? None? Since you can tell by looking...

won't you tell us which ones you see wax on or chemicals in?

[JanMichael]

176. congratulations

you found some apple photos on the internet.

[cherokeeprogressive]

178. And you failed to answer the question. No surprise there.

[JanMichael]

180. Because you failed to ask a question that could be answered with your

silly photos. Seriously, either add something of value to the conversation....maybe "the wax isn't dangerous" or anything rather than "look at my photos I pulled off "google images." "

[Quantess]

217. +1

LOL

[Odin2005]

182. That's why you WASH them before you eat them!

[JanMichael]

187. uh huh

you wash yours off....I am just going to keep washing the natural dust and dirt off mine. If you want to eat Monsanto crap that is bred, and then chemicalled out to make you happy to look at it, hey...go right ahead.

[Odin2005]

192. As someone who actually TOOK a molecular biology class I am not afraid of GMOs.

Does that make me approve the way Monsanto is using the technology? absolutely not, using it to make crops more resistant to pesticides is a waste of the technology, but it's not going to kill you. Pesticides wash off.

[Name removed]

219. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sudopod]

175. I really have no idea why your post made so many people lose their minds. I agree with you. :/ nt

[JanMichael]

177. Same reason people get upset when you try to explain why

not to shop at Walmart. Or why they see the photos of tortured cows on DU, and are ONLY upset because they have to see how their food animals are treated. People don't like to hear the truth about America. It's only fun on DU to criticize policy.

Freaks them out.

[sudopod]

193. It's like you were personally criticizing them or something.

It's hard to see why someone would get so upset because someone said "Enormous Grocery Chain's produce is gross." It reminds me of how people lose their minds if you say something bad about, say, Apple products or throw off on their favorite car company. Why do people feel like they owe fealty to a company? O_o

[Odin2005]

196. And they have plenty of stuff that isn't gross.

Anyone who says that EVERYTHING in a typical grocery store is "crap" is a liar or an elitist prick that likes to put down people that can't afford to go to Whole Paycheck and who doesn't have access to local produce most of the year.

[JanMichael]

202. read the thread. I have never been in a Whole Foods. Ever.

can't afford it. AND I don't care that much about organic.

[Odin2005]

210. Oops, my bad.

My comment of the limited availability of fresh local produce still stands, though.

[sudopod]

204. You see, that's it there!

Why does it make you mad for OP to say that his local grocery was crap? Just because he or she has high standards doesn't mean they're throwing off on anyone but the store operators.

You have to admit that 1.99 for a cucumber is kinda off-the-wall.

[JanMichael]

201. That's an interesting thought. I need to think about that one

But, you are right; Americans get personally invested in their companies.

Bizarre, but something to think about. Thank you for your insight.

[madinmaryland]

179. What the fuck are we supposed to do in the north, where there is NO access

to freshly picked fruits and vegetables.

Kill a cow, I guess.

[JanMichael]

181. That's part of the point. I'll be damned if I know...but, it's disturbing as hell

that we are eating this crap in this country.

[madinmaryland]

184. I would appreciate if you not berate folks that have no other choice.

I'm just happy that we have "semi" fresh produce here during the winter. My sister in Alaska has no access to any fresh (aka locally grown produce) 10 months of the year.

Are you from an area that has access to local produce year round?

[JanMichael]

185. And, please show me a post where I berated anyone. I am berating the

SYSTEM.

Did you read the post, or did you just jump on the "this must be an organic lovin' vegan elitist."

As far as I can tell, most people didn't bother reading the post; you sound like one.

[LoZoccolo]

183. POSTING IN EPIC THREAD! n/t

[Abq_Sarah]

189. That's a shame

I shop in regular grocery stores all the time and never walk out with crap.

Of course, I only shop the perimeter and don't venture down the aisles where most of the "junk" is sold.

[Odin2005]

190. BINGO!

Of course the OP will find something wrong with what you buy and somehow proves that he's the better person. :eyes:

[JanMichael]

191. And can you please show me a post

where I have put anyone down? This post was about the SYSTEM. But, people like you turned it into a crap flamefest.

[Odin2005]

194. Your tone indicates an air of superiority to us "idiots" who still buy "crap".

[JanMichael]

197. I think the American way of life has turned to crap

I think most people are like the frog in warm water with the burner being turned up. Quite frankly, you sound like one of them. Our way of life... from the food, to all the driving and lack of public transportation has become toxic.

Worse, the dems keep arguing for the status quo, and then wonder why Obama acts like a Republican.

[Odin2005]

199. Excuse me, I don't have a car, I WANT better public transporation.

Thanks for stereotyping. :eyes:

[JanMichael]

205. who stereotyped whom in this thread?

Go back and read your post; you stereotyped me all to hell and back...furthermore, I am the only one on the thread who has been called names and attacked. I tried to keep the conversation about the SYSTEM.

[Brickbat]

195. Generally, saying that people eat "crap" and "fucking shit" doesn't exactly make them feel warm and

fuzzy. Just a thought.

[JanMichael]

198. It wasn't meant to be warm and fuzzy. Perhaps if you want that

you shouldn't be participating on a board that is political in nature.

[Brickbat]

206. Are you kidding? Me, want warm and fuzzy? I'm the one who started the flamefest!

If you don't want people ignoring your point and taking offense at your tone, don't tell them they eat "fucking shit."

[JanMichael]

208. please show me

where I told someone to "eat shit?" I may have written that people are "eating shit" referring to the food in question, but that is a completely different context than you are implying.

[Brickbat]

211. Nice tap dance. Take it on the road.

[JanMichael]

212. You can't

all you can do is toss insults at me. That's it. The actual premise of the thread means nothing to you.

[Brickbat]

214. Of course I can't. Of course you never said, "Poster A, you eat shit." However, if you can't see

why saying that the air-quotes-regular-air-quotes grocery stores where most of us shop are full of nothing but fucking shit and that people who shop at air-quotes-regular-air-quotes grocery stores can't possibly buy anything but crap and Drano can be offensive to people AND TOTALLY DISTRACT THEM FROM YOUR MAIN POINT, then keep on keeping on, I guess. :shrug:

[RandomThoughts]

200. Funny story.

People literally put feces in my food years ago, after being wrongly smeared, you throw up, and then keep doing what you need to do.

:shrug:

So I doubt someone phrasing that in words would bother me.


Although I am due beer and travel money and many experiences.

[Brickbat]

203. RT, if you ever do get that beer and travel money, plus many experiences, you will let us all know,

right? I hope you do.

[Brickbat]

209. Impossible. It must have been in a can, overly processed, crap, or fucking shit. Or maybe you live

entirely on Drano.

[JanMichael]

213. all you are adding to this thread is flames

nt

[Irishonly]

207. I love Farmer's Markets

I am fortunate that I live close enough to walk to one on Saturday mornings. We can also hit one almost every day of the week. I can buy my eggs locally and we grow veggies in our back yard. We have a bumper crop of artichokes this year. My poor little lemon tree doesn't understand it doesn't have to produce lemons 365 days a year. We are cloning some of our tomato plants to give to neighbors. I figure we are all in this together. I was blessed with parents who had a love of gardening and I have tried to pass it on.

[lonestarnot]

220. Drink crap too!

:toast:

[Name removed]

221. Deleted message

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