Today - I asked for a customer service representative that was located in the US

[MsFlorida]

After three people -- I was finally transferred to one. It took just a few minutes of their time to address my issues as compared to the five hours and three off shore cust service reps that could not help me yesterday. They were all very nice people and I know just trying to do a good job.

From this point forward, I am only going to deal with US cust service reps for so called US products. I had a very nice conversation with the US rep and she indicated that they are allowed to share feedback from their customers and gave me the direct line so I never have to dial "off shore" again.

I'm not thrilled that I had to do this - actually disgusted. Those jobs need to be back in the US not offshored just to save a few dollars.

I know my small effort is not going to make that much of a difference, although if perhaps enough people insist on speaking to someone in the US, it could make a difference.

Reminds me of a song I used to sing long ago and was just reminded of recently in another post that I read....

You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both still really sick and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

[davidinalameda]

1. good for you!

more people need to do this

[Brickbat]

2. K&R.

[Anakin Skywalker]

3. +1

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Tweener.

Between "Speak English!" and "I appreciate your existence."

Nuance.

[DCKit]

5. I got a hang-up. The call was VOIP to India and transferred back to the US...

over a bad line.

After twelve years of BS, Verizon finally fixed the short at their facility.

[postulater]

6. What were you in for?

[OhioChick]

7. Good for you...

More need to do this.

:thumbsup:

[Foo Fighter]

8. What was the CSR doing time for? n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Yes, Apple makes the majority...

of their computers overseas (as does everyone else)- but their customer service is located in the San Francisco of the south (Austin). "Keep Austin Weird" :)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

146. There's a very large call center in Raleigh, NC as well, with...

A(lways)C(hanging)S(omething) paying its reps about $9/hr with shitty benefits and always-changing schedules. ACS has zero regard for its employees (see glassdoor.com). Meanwhile, Apple CSRs start at about $15/hr with superior benefits, work spaces, etc. To add insult to injury, NC taxpayers get to subsidize this shit. God Bless America.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. You do realise most clothes Americans buy are made "offshore" as well?

They're made in sweatshops so spoilt Americans can wear the blood and sweat of those "offshore" workers. Why not urge people to refuse to buy clothes made in overseas sweatshops? All I ever see is people posting about how offshore CSR's take forever to answer them and how wonderful the homegrown ones are, but I never see these same people who claim to be so concerned with getting jobs back to the US urging people to demand their clothing is made in the US...

I'm sure as hell not going to insist on talking to someone in the US next time I ring a call centre....


on edit: fixed up clunky sentence...

[REP]

14. Wouldn't it make more sense to ask for a local CSR rather than one in the US?

When the topic is textiles, I'll be glad to list US-made clothing.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. I don't care who I talk to as long as they deal with what I'm ringing about...

Most of the time I've got no idea where the person I'm talking to is located. I've struck some locals (I'm assuming they're local as they have no accent) who are absolutely hopeless and take ages to not answer the question I've asked, and I've struck really great people who are possibly located on the other side of the world. I don't think asking for someone local ensures a smooth and quick response to whatever it is people are ringing about, that's all...

btw, happy new year REP! :hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Wow, you assume no accent means local? Where do you live?

It is not about the accent, at all. Wow. Everyone in your locality shares the same 'accent' or what is actually called dialect? All of them? Wow. Suburbiana?

[whathehell]

56. Australia. n/t

[sabrina 1]

118. Well, it's more than just locals v foreigners.

Aside from the obvious problems of the complete loss of the U.S. manufacturing base and with it so many jobs, there is the question of Big Corps abusing workers overseas, paying slave wages and using child labor eg.

Then we have the other problem here of the Government actually rewarding Big Businesses who are moving American jobs overseas while abusing their workers in foreign countries.

Long before the U.S. suffered the huge job loss it is now experiencing, people of conscience refused to buy products produced by people who were being abused.

As for tech help, my best experience was with an Indian worker who I actually thought was here in the U.S., who stayed on the line with me for four hours until he finally fixed a problem I thought was un-fixable.

The U.S. people I had talked to were unable, or unwilling to spend that much time. I only found out he was in India when I thanked him and apologized for 'keeping him up all night'. He explained that where he was, it was the middle of the day. I should have asked him if he was being paid enough for the excellent job he was doing, but didn't think of it at the time. The Corp was Microsoft airc, with whom we had a warranty at the time.

[whathehell]

40. I'm not sure

what the difference would be.."local" or "one in the US"

It seems to me, if you ask for a "local" they might mean a CSR in your STATE, which would be a bit much to ask.

I'm tired of sseing our jobs offshored...I have no problem asking for one employed here.

[TheMadMonk]

16. I think by now most of us here, are in fact aware of this little datum.

However we may behave in response to this knowledge.

Insisting on having an intelligible person on the other end of the line is not at all stupid. And if enough people did it, we might see at least some reversal of the offshoring trend.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. What do you mean 'intelligible person'?

Do you mean people who don't have funny foreign accents? If not, what did you mean?

[Fumesucker]

23. I worked with a Scotsman once..

It took me weeks of regular contact to get to the point I could understand what he was saying when we were face to face more than about a third of the time.

He would have sucked as a CSR in the USA.

Even strong regional American accents make people hard to understand if it's a regional accent you're unfamiliar with, throw in a low quality voice line and stress on at least one end of the communications channel (your widget is not working and leaking a foul smelling fluorescent purple fluid all over your floor, you've been on hold since last Tuesday waiting for a CSR, etc..).

[nannah]

83. intelligible: understandable

when you call customer service it is reasonable to expect to to be able to understand the words the person is saying to you.

[whathehell]

31. We know it better than you do, Violet..Unlike yourself who has

never so much as set foot in America, We actually LIVE here.

My dear, I can only say that you haven't been reading here much if you haven't noticed

the anger and anxiety expressed regarding our off-shored manufacturing base.

It's done ALL the time..After all, it IS our jobs which are being taken from us, isn't it?

And BTW, you can drop the "spoilt Americans" bullshit,

as those of us who are actually familiar with the place know, it's hardly just "designer" duds made overseas,

it's virtually EVERYTHING. You cannot FIND a piece of clothing in any store anymore that was made here

and that fact is talked about all the time.


Just a thought...It's actually good to KNOW of what you speak before speaking.:eyes:

[bluestate10]

52. Go online to shop.

Clothing is made by mainland USA based manufacturers. There are sites online that are dedicated to directing potential customers to direct buy from mainland USA manufacturers, or to online stores that sell the products. Buyer beware, some of the online stores sell imported products and do not properly label them as such on their sites, a potential buyer must use email or direct phone conversation to establish that a desired product is USA manufactured.

If people expect to walk into The Gap, Banana Republic, Benetton, Macy's, Penny's, Target, Walmart, et al, and get USA made clothing or shoes, forget about it, there is none. But if those stores stuff starts collecting dust on racks as more buyers go online to find USA made products, we will begin to see more USA made products in stores.

[whathehell]

60. I know about that, Bluestate10

but it's not practical for everyone to buy online, especially clothing.

It shouldn't be expecting too much of American stores to sell American made clothing.

[bluestate10]

68. We have to force brick and mortal retailers to offer USA made products.

The one choice that we have is shopping for said products online. I have purchased clothing online for many years, even when I was buying imported clothing. What I do is look at size labels on clothing that is in my closets, then factor in weight gain or loss. I have not had to do returns, but most online sites have returns as an available. I have found that good online retailers have sites that allow me to determine factors like appearance, color and design online, I have had no issues.

I did not say making retailers change their policies was going to be easy for consumers. But if we don't make the extra effort I can say with near certainty that nothing will change and americans will continue to lose their jobs, forever.

[bluestate10]

51. I am buying my clothing from mainland USA sources.

Items like underwear and colored tee shirts can be found from excellent USA manufacturers for the same price or a little less than what is paid for imported products. Trousers and shirts are more of a challenge, a few are less expensive than imported, but most are significantly more expensive. Also, the selection of trouser and shirt styles from USA brands is not yet as broad as what I saw from imported sources. But as things are, I bought the USA trousers and shirts anyway. I am experienced in manufacturing and establishing product prices, I know that when volume is low, prices are higher. The solution for making USA made trousers and shirts cheaper and getting more variety is increasing the volume of orders that manufacturers get. Those that can afford to pay more to get volume up, should. Once volume is higher, prices should come down, allowing more people access to the USA made products.

[trud]

55. Violet

I buy only US made clothes. I know any number of people who buy US.

Let me just put in a little plug here for sweatshirtsusa.com which makes a lot more than sweatshirts, all in the US.

[bluestate10]

71. I have started exclusively buying only USA made clothing.

My clothing budget is significant, I realized that I could maybe make change by redirecting it from B&R retailers to online sources of USA made products. Some plugs:

Astees.com : a wonderful maker of fairly priced, environmentally conscious tees and thermal tees, their stuff is wonderful.

Campbellvile Apparel : a maker of underwear. Supplies the military, but sells online retail. The company's briefs are less expensive than ones found at Macy's or Walmart.

Bill's Khakis : a maker of high end khakis, only manufacturer in the USA, refuses to go anywhere else. Products are sort of pricey, but quality and long life are exceptional.

The New England Trading Company : sells home-ware products that are made by craft-people throughout New England. Has a sizable environmentally sensitive offering.

New Balance Shoe Company : Does do some offshore manufacturing, but has many lines that are made only in the USA. Buy to induce the company to bring home all lines. Make a point to point out what you are doing.

Gitman Brothers Shirts : High quality, but pricey shirts. Buttons won't drop off in the wash. Shirts are long lasting for the value conscious.

D'Accord Shirts : limited color and style selection, but excellent quality. Priced affordable. Buttons won't fall off in the wash.

ENRO Shirtmakers : High end shirt maker, is making an attempt to manufacture more everyday dress informal shirts. Brilliantly high quality. Price points vary from the same as imports to significantly more expensive. large style and color selection at higher price points, less selection at lower price points.

[trud]

87. thanks, bluestate

That's a very useful list.

[MuseRider]

90. Thanks for all the links! n/t

[SheilaT]

94. Some of us really need to try on clothes

to figure out if they'll fit or if they will look okay on. Sizes for women's clothing is less standardized than those numbers might make you think.

[timo]

67. hahahaha

like Oz doesnt have stuff made in sweatshops, or polluted as factories from third world countries, no chinese merchandise whatsoever.....FAIL!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

123. Thanks for typing what I was thinking.

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sulphurdunn]

84. What do purchase American made textiles

made in any kind of shop? Good luck!

[DissedByBush]

122. Sometimes it's hard to have 100% American

I read an article about the guy whose company makes mag lights. He gets as much as possible in the USA, but there was one tiny seal that nobody in America made, and it would be way too expensive to ramp up a factory just to make those for his products. He imports that one part.

[marybourg]

126. I've been calling and asking for (non-feather) bed pillows made in the U.S.

for several years while making do with some pretty ratty old ones. I did finally get some, made in the U.S. of (mostly) U.S materials from J C Penney about a year ago. What a struggle. I couldn't go through that for every item of clothes I buy. But mostly I buy from a thrift shop anyway.

[Honeycombe8]

130. It's pointless trying not to buy something made outside of the U.S.

Almost everything is made outside of the U.S. Many items are manufactured outside the U.S., but then assembled and distributed within the U.S.

I found out the difficulty in looking for clothes and dog toys made in the U.S. I got tired of looking at tags and finding nothing made in the USA.

I have limited time to search for necessities. I have to go to the store and buy things and get home and then get to work.

Americans work, believe it or not, more hours than most other western nations. This is a capitalist country. That's fine, but that means the time of many of the workers is limited. It simply is most efficient going to the local Wal-Mart or Target or wherever and getting what you need.

There is also the flip side to "made in the USA." Do you think Americans, including those in this forum, would complain about rising prices? I hear complaints a lot about rising prices; boy, would they go up, if most things started to be manufactured here. That's not to say they should NOT be made here. But there would be a related price increase for the goods.

I will be buying a new car this year (or maybe next year). It's pointless to try to "buy American," because all the American manufacturers have parts made overseas, or assembled there, or whatever. And some foreign makers, for some models, have factories here in the U.S. ("made in the USA"?), or have parts made here or assembled here. It's very confusing. But the ultimate answer for me is...I'm looking for reliability, first, since I keep cars a long time. The American makes can't even come close to the reliability records of some other countries. Should I be expected to pay thousands of dollars over the next decade for repairs, or buying a new car sooner than I'd like, so that I "buy American"? Maybe so. But it's a hard decision.

[NBachers]

11. Moen has the best customer service I've seen

I'm constantly impressed by the USA customer service Moen provides- quick, friendly, knowledgeable, efficient.

They're so good I had to put in a plug for them.

I get off the phone with a smile, instead of wanting to wring someone's neck and splash in their blood.

[PSzymeczek]

109. My husband likes Moen products

and Kohler. Hates Delta and Price-Pfister. He's a plumber.

[tigereye]

12. great idea! I am not a fan of outsourcing.

:thumbsup:

[Speck Tater]

13. If we had to pay for the products we buy daily at American wage levels...

We'd all be living like the rest of the third world. Our standard of living is not sustainable, and MUST be subsidized by cheap sweatshop labor. Either that, or we must accept the standard of living we actually CAN afford, which damn few Americans are willing to do voluntarily.

American "prosperity" is based entirely upon the exploitation of the rest of the world, and if you are not willing to reduce your standard of living to the global average level then you are hogging more than your share of Earth's resources and you are part of the problem.

[REP]

15. ...or we could insist all workers be paid a living wage

Workers being paid decent wages could afford to buy things made by workers being paid living wages. You may have been thinking of Xboxes and flat screens; I'm thinking about socks, t-shirts and shoes - things low-wage workers are forced to buy from oversea producers because those jobs are largely gone here. And that's just one example.

[whathehell]

35. Thank you, REP....That is what we should be aiming for. n/t

[Fruittree]

22. I think that's it in a nutshell so to speak..

We really can't afford the things we have if they're to be made here and people paid a living wage.

[Speed8098]

45. Oxymoron

We really can't afford the things we have if they're to be made here and people paid a living wage.


Re-read your sentence. It's an oxymoron. If people were paid a "Living wage" for the materials they would be making and building here in the USA, then they would be able to afford them because they are paid a "Living Wage"

living wage: noun
Definition of LIVING WAGE
1: a subsistence wage
2: a wage sufficient to provide the necessities and comforts essential to an acceptable standard of living

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/living%20wage

Your attitude is defeatist and I think you really need to decide if you want progression or do you want this country to regress to the days of the Depression?

When there is too much money and not enough production an empire crumbles.

Read "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" and try to recognize the parallels to our situation in this country today.

Happy New Year :woohoo:

[Fruittree]

149. I absolutely want this country to be able to produce

its own materials and for everyone to be able to afford them - I'm not defeatist - but if you think about it - how do you define "essential" and "acceptable"? Is it a car for each driver in the house? Is it a television in every room? Multiple computers? Dinner out a few times a week? Designer clothing? Braces for the kids? Or is it more of having what you need and defining need the way many if not most people in the world still have to - meaning food, shelter, healthcare, a few luxuries but not at the scale that's become the norm here in the US.
If things were made here and people paid a reasonable wage - how could we afford as much as we have? It seems reasonable to me that we'd have to do with less because the cost of each item would go up. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - but please explain how it would be otherwise.

(Happy New Year to you as well!!)

[fasttense]

24. NO we wouldn't.

Our economic problem is that we don't make any real wealth anymore (aside from weapons of mass destruction). We do all this fancy accounting, betting and legal financial ponzi schemes, but we don't make anything of value anymore.

If America made all or most of the products we consume, we would have the wealthiest, happiest, strongest middle class in the world. We would be paying more for the products but we would all be employed making those products. Yes, like Germany, our labor would cost more than in China or India but we would be paying for Sharon down the street to eat and stay warm. And her money would be paying for the mechanic to keep his job. And the money would be zipping through our communities and our country and developing strong, happy and healthy people.

But instead our money goes to a handful of fat, excessively wealthy, greedy sociopaths and our citizens go cold, hungry, weary, and sad. We allow these greedy rich pigs to send our productivity and wealth to other countries and we get cheaper trinkets in exchange.

[Enthusiast]

30. Plus fucking one!

[Enthusiast]

29. Funny how they don't have to

live like the rest of the third world in places like France and Germany. Funny how when we used to have good high wage jobs and actually had a trade surplus we didn't have to live like third world citizens. We have heard your argument and we have implemented it through these "free trade" agreements. And these agreements have ruined us. I call bullshit on your right wing free market reasoning.

[whathehell]

33. I believe that is what we ARE doing....

buying cheap shit from WalMart because our wages haven't risen in decades.

"American "prosperity" is based entirely upon the exploitation of the rest of the world, and if you are not willing to reduce your standard of living to the global average level then you are hogging more than your share of Earth's resources and you are part of the problem".

Really...Well, the first part of your sentence is a matter of relatively recent fact....If you were old enough, perhaps, you'd remember when virtually everything we bought was "made in America"...That is when we had a real manufacturing base, with "real" union wages and a system which imposed TARIFFS on imported goods, making them more EXPENSIVE than American made goods....It was the profit-over all corporations which decided to offshore everything, not the working citizenry.

As to the present, is it only Americans whose "prosperity" is based upon "the exploitation of the rest of the world" -- a situation we didn't ask for and which has coincided with the loss of our jobs and the cheapening of our way of life?...I don't think so...What about the Europeans and the other western democracies?..Aren't they in a similar situation?

[Speck Tater]

75. Yes I remember when we used to buy "Made in America"

And yes, we were prosperous. But that prosperity was ALSO due to the fact that World War II had devastated much of Europe's manufacturing base and Europe was also buying "Made in America". We had someplace to export our manufactured goods so we could import their money.

If we built an impenetrable wall around the USA and tried to have a prosperous self-contained economy without exploiting anyone anywhere else in the world we would fall flat on our face. We would become a third world country in no time.

It's not a matter of how hard we work or how much we are paid. Wages are money which is an artificial concept invented to represent real wealth. The fact is the planet has a limited amount of REAL wealth that can be legitimately turned into money. If money is created out of thin air without real wealth to back it up then the money becomes worthless and the concept of "living wage" becomes nonsense.

I'm not talking about politics or unions or greedy capitalists. I'm talking about physics and basic population ecology. The human population of the planet is in overshoot. We consume 1-1/2 planets worth of renewable resources every year. For every tree we harvest there is only time for 3/4 of a tree to grow to replace it. For every gallon of water we pump out of the aquifers there are only 3 quarts of water filtering back into the aquifers. And the situation with fossil fuels is even more stark. It took 65 million years for the oil we are burning to be created. It will take another 65 million years to replace it. We are burning it a million times faster than it is being replaced.

Physics simply won't allow a "living wage" for everyone on a planet so grossly over-burdened. Somebody MUST be exploited by the rich, and everyone who is living above the global average standard of living is one of the exploiters, even if they are so broke they can't afford a new 52" flat-screen TV. If you have a car and can afford to put gas in it once and a while then you are one of the rich exploiters by global standards. Even if your car IS 10 years old and needs new tires you are taking more than your share of global resources by exploiting somebody else.

If you want the American way of life then you have no choice but to exploit others somewhere else in the world. Get used to it.

[whathehell]

82. You "get used to it".

or provide another prescription.


As to the "the American way of life"...I'm not sure many of us know what that is anymore...


The median wage here is a big, fat $40, 000 a year...Hardly luxorious


And again...What about the "European Way of Life"...and that of the other western democracies?


Would you care to preach to them?

[bluestate10]

53. You offer a reasonable challenge. People need to think about what you just wrote. nt.

[patrice]

17. Good Work! NGU!!!

[newtothegame]

18. Sounds racist. nt

[mwooldri]

42. Racist, no. Xenophobic, yes.

Though I will tell you this: Some of my colleagues here had horrible experiences about 20-30 years ago... (and some still happens today). It's not because they're American, it was because they were "black". They too had requests to transfer to white people, and the most polite of them hung up and dialed back hoping to get a "white" American.

This was America... in the 1980's and 1990's. It is not like that now, because sadly, "Indian" is the new "black".

[whathehell]

46. In most cases, I don't believe it's either

racist or xenophobic...In most cases here it's a matter of comprehending the english of non-native speakers and in others, a political statement, i.e. We're tired having our jobs shipped overseas and using the services of foreign nationals for American goods...Having worked in a call center myself, I understand the sentiment.

I notice from you're profile that you're a Briton who lives in North Carolina...I live in Illinois and

I see no racism, no "Indian is the new 'black'" here, so yours might be a regional observation..:shrug:

[jberryhill]

69. There are Americans with Indian accents

So can you explain how one figures out whether an accented speaker is an American or not?

[whathehell]

72. If you mean naturalized Americans of Indian birth

I understand you...but they tend to work in America, I believe.

Americans of Indian ancestry tend to have American accents and if they're working in America

I don't give a flying fook about their ancestry.

[jberryhill]

86. How do you know whether they are at "work in America"?

You are on a telephone call.

How do you know whether you are speaking to a legally resident person in the US, or to a person in another country?

I would like you to explain how you do that.

[whathehell]

92. "I would like you to explain how you do that"

You would, huh?...Well, that's nice, but I'm not sure I have

a corresponding desire to satisfy your wants as frankly, you sound like you're looking

for a fight and I'm not interested in that...Nor do I feel a particular need to defend myself to you.


Have a nice day :hi:

[mwooldri]

100. Yes, I'm a Brit in NC.

Since I work in a call center, and since I have worked supporting a call center in India, I based my claim of "Indian is the new black" on the observations of how customers are treating my colleagues in India and my African-American peers who have worked here many years and comparing it with their early experiences. The experiences were eerily similar, and based on that it's hard not to arrive at that conclusion.

I will state that I'm talking "worst case" scenarios here. But still, treating people in a derogatorive way because of their skin colour or nationality or physical location is not acceptable.

Maybe my timeline has shrunk... but I don't hear so many complaints these days about calls going over to India - when it started we got inundated with requests for a US based CSR because it was a new thing for a lot of people and there were a lot of misunderstandings. The calls I get from people wanting to speak to a US representative these days are mainly people taking a personal stand against outsourcing - I generally get the "miscommunication issues" from US based CSRs.

[whathehell]

106. Who are your customers?

Are they all Americans or are do they represent others in the English speaking world?

I might take issue with the latter half of your statement "treating people in a derogative way because of their skin colour or nationality or physical location is not acceptable".

Treating people in a derogative way because of their skin color is NOT acceptable, of course, but when you get into "nationality" or "location" you are broadening the issue to include the "politics" of outsourcing. My husband works in pharmaceuticals, has been to India MANY times and we have Indian friends there and in the States. None of that mitigates my misgivings about our jobs being outsourced to other countries in the interests of cheap labor.

Having said that, I would agree that it's not "right" to treat individual CSRs poorly because some greedy Westerner sold out his country's jobs to India, China or wherever...But I'm afraid such reactions are not "racist" or "xenophobic". I would say that the bulk of them stem from economic self-interest.

As for racial prejudice, it's not limited to the US and I'm sure you know that...They're are plenty of racists in the UK and the world over, unfortunately.

[mwooldri]

111. My customers are mainly US based - anyone in the USA and even ex-pats.

I am not in a position to say who I work for as I don't speak for the company and I can't represent the company and what I say here are my own observations and thoughts.

I'd say the caller speaking to my co-worker in the late 1980's cursing at them and using the N word and hanging up on them is definitely racist.

I would agree with you that the bulk of negative reaction to my Indian colleagues are about a) outsourcing, b) language/cultural barrier or c) both.... but speaking of someone who is not American, who took the call from one of my Indian colleagues and for my supervisor at that time - again not "natural born American" and not with an American accent - to have to transfer the call to one of her peers because the customer at each point stated "I don't understand you" whilst managing to conduct an intelligble and understandable conversation as to why they didn't understand me, or my supervisor, or my Indian colleague... I call that xenophobic.

Therefore I stand by my statement that there is some xenophobia going on here... however you have won me over to some extent in that you are correct that a large number of people in the western world are fed up of their job being "offshored" and thus requesting a US based CSR as this is their way of protesting the "offshoring". But speaking as someone who has experienced xenophobia, I just can't rule it out in all cases.

[whathehell]

120. You can't rule it out in all cases, I'm sure

and, obviously, anyone using the N word is being racist.

As I'm sure you know, though, Britain has more than its share of right wingers, racists and xenophobes as well.


I've sat around in cafes in Europe, hearing about various different nationalities and their faults.

One summer I must have heard about four different ethnic groups who, and I quote, "didn't want to work".

It was a very diverse group, made up of Scots, Nigerians, Bulgarians and Romanians and according to the


Brits, Aussies and Croatians I was with, none of these people were pre-disposed to labor..The phrase you

heard repeatedly was "They don't want to work"..:eyes:



The similarity of the criticism, in both word and tone, to what I used to hear about minorities here was amazing.

[boppers]

136. "the english of non-native speakers"... If that's the case, definitely avoid Americans.

English is native to more Indians than Americans, after all, it was one of their languages until the 1940's, as compared to the 1770's in the US.

:evilgrin:

[whathehell]

141. Your heroic, if predictable attempt at "politcal correctness" is well noted, boppers

but I'm afraid the results show the strain.:evilgrin:

Although the British had commerical activities in India in the 17th century, commerce was primarily conducted through the Mogul emperors in thieir language. It was not until the 1720s, as the Mogul empire collapsed, that the East India Company established its own army in India and started taking control. English became the language of commerce sometime around the late 1600s or early 1700s in India.

English was well established in the Northeastern part of what is now the U.S. by the colonial charters in the mid 1600s. I don't see much of a difference in timeline between India and the US as far as spoken English.

It is important to note that the English spoken in the early American colonial times was British English by mostly native speakers. It was not one of many languages spoken, as in India, so Indian English has acquired a unique accent and cadence that is unlike English in the U.S. or England.

[boppers]

147. Well, it was meant as a humorous tweak....

But thanks for the history lesson, and yes, the different regional variations meant a bit of divergence, and I'll add that areas in the US that were former French colonies have their unique English variants, as do the Spanish areas, Dutch areas, etc...

[trud]

57. Indian is not the "new Black."

I have never once, not once, been connected to an HP India rep who was anything but clueless. That has nothing to do with ethnicity. A reflection of HP's hiring, cheap wages, the Indian educational system, very likely, but not ethnicity.

[whathehell]

59. Thank you.

[mwooldri]

102. Depending on treatment - yes.

I had competent Indian CSRs had some vile and obscene language thrown at them by our customers, merely for being Indian and doing their CSR job in India. I asked my colleagues at my center here in NC as to whether they have had any such vile experiences and a couple of people confided in me that they had very similar treatment when the center was opened here in the mid 80's - they're African-American. They said that they rarely or never get that treatment today.

So my "Indian is the new Black" may be a bit OTT but it was my observation when comparing the experiences of my African American colleagues in the late 1980s vs my Indian colleagues in 2006.

As for being competent that's a whole different matter. There's plenty of incompetent people where-ever in the world you go.

[Skittles]

132. I'll add something

they have opportunities there - I find in my job when I deal with someone in India who is competent, they are very quickly gone (they have opportunities there, the way we used to). Too quickly, I believe, but I'm sure the lure of more money is compelling.

[dionysus]

96. it's not so simple. i am a computer programmer but being in a small company i also have to provide

customer support to clients. It is extremely frustrating when the client has such heavily accented english that you can't understand a word they are saying.

i have nothing against them... at least they know english... but it's a real pain in the ass. how can you help (or be helped by) someone when you can't understand a word they say?

[Skittles]

138. I hear you

worst is when I'm working on accounts where outage fines can be $1000 a minute and the Indian SE is babbling non-sensical stuff to me :mad:

[Skittles]

131. it's not racist

it is subpar workers - they have opportunities there (you know, the way WE used to have) so if they are any good at their jobs they MOVE ON

[dotymed]

21. It is sooo frustrating

when you are transferred (usually) to an Indian customer service rep.. Like you said, most of them are nice but are extremely hard to understand. The corporations tell them to use American names, this really convinces us?
All of our manufacturing has been outsourced and also the even lower paid customer service positions. It is not the fault of the employees......

[whathehell]

61. Precisely. n/t.

[dionysus]

98. it's like those new commercials where the customers get that siberian dude who calls himself peggy..

[mwb970]

25. I recently called about my Internet connection and talked to "Glen".

Glen had a very slight Indian accent that became more pronounced as we worked through my problem in a friendly manner. He fixed my setup right away. I'm glad I got one of the good ones! This time.

[robcon]

26. Horrible bias.: prejudging foreigners.

I don't think the fact that the Customer Service is overseas should affect your activity at all.

Free trade = economic growth and world peace.

[whathehell]

34. Free Trade Sucks...and isn't "free" for most of the people..Fair Trade

is what we need.

[MuseRider]

91. I agree. n/t

[rhett o rick]

43. So you are a Democrat that supports free trade? What you call "free trade" is killing America and

making China the new capitalist empire.

[pipoman]

81. Your free trade

was purchased by corporations operating in the US to benefit their bottom line. You took their talking points hook, line and sinker I see.

[Starry Messenger]

116. Is that satire?

World peace? I'm dying here. :rofl:

[90-percent]

27. CSR

When I speak to someone with an Indian accent, I apologies for the behavior of America on the world stage. It's not me, it's my government. Us average Americans are just normal nice people.

-90% Jimmy

[Orrex]

32. A thoughtful gesture, but you need to be careful about that

I'm pretty confident that international call centers like those maintain very strict rules about making political statements, so your statement might be putting your particular CSR into a compromising position.

Make your statement if you choose, because you're not constrained in that way, but don't be put off if your CSR "Alex" doesn't respond meaningfully.

[whathehell]

36. Whatever

America's behavior "on the world stage"..

Our behavior toward India has helped them at the expense of ourselves.:eyes:

[pipoman]

85. +1

Has helped them when their own people wouldn't.

[mwooldri]

39. I know that a good few of these Indians happen to be in America.

I know, because I trained them, and no they didn't move on to Gurgaron or to Mumbai or elsewhere in India. They stayed here in the place where I work.

However there are cultural bridges between the Anglophone world and the non-Anglophone world that cause difficulties - even in a country where a good number of people speak english (without a capital E) and very well - because the traditions and concepts are very different. One of the simplest concepts that new Indian recruits to a call center in India find harder to grasp was the concept of death - that it is expressed in different terms here than in India - e.g. they will state that a person has expired, whereas we will say died, or passed on. When you're starting from that low of a level of understanding the culture then it is doubly hard for an Indian based CSR to succeed well in helping out people in the Anglophone world (I'm not talking just USA, I'm taking UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc). Plus of course just like in the rest of the Anglophone world, there are differences in accents all across India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, and so on.

As a side point I have had some "extraordinary" experiences in my time. Once upon a time we were the US based support for our "partners in Mumbai". A customer called and reached our partner site - they stated that they could not understand them and the call transferred to me. The request at that point when I first received the call was "I would like to speak to someone who speaks English - I don't understand you." Problem is, I'm from the South of England. I actually speak English with a very noticeable yet very clear English accent (I'm very understandable and as such the employment I am in is a job I do quite well at actually, even though I feel my skills are under-utilized - but that's an aside point) . Protocol was to transfer these calls to my supervisor - problem was she spoke with a very noticeable English accent - different from mine but from the same "area". I understood that call got transferred to one of her peers who spoke with a very distinct North Carolinian (Southern) twang. Therefore at this point if I receive a call from any partner site we are working with who is not based in the United States I ask them if it is an accent issue and make arrangements for them to get to someone with more of an "American" accent. If it's the basis of just someone based in the USA, then I'll take it.

Another side point: Although I am clear, and I get a lot of people ask me as a personal interest question as to "Where are you from originally?", my colleagues in the UK who service UK based customers have exactly the same problems except... the callers are all in the UK. There are strong regional accents and even though the British Isles will fit into North and South Carolina quite neatly, unless you get out and about and listen to all the different accents and engage with these people, you are always going to have difficulties. I have had difficulties at one point: I went to university in Dundee, Scotland - University of Dundee (great place btw) - but there was this one lecturer whose Dundonian accent was so thick and unintelligable to me I had no choice but to tape record his lectures as well as take notes and re-play later on to ensure that I had got what he said right.

And as for 90-percent, you are pretty much correct - average Americans are nice people. Even non political Republicans and teabaggers.

[hlthe2b]

66. I will deal with whomever can help me...

More often that is a US-based CSR. Actually, no, I should correct that/ It is more often a US-based SUPERVISOR. The first line CSRs seems to be trained in nothing more than "polite stalling tactics," whether US-based or elsewhere... It seems more pronounced when speaking with an overseas person, but that is likely because they don't "adlib" from the manual or literal instructions given them. I can say they are always very polite and it I'm not too frustrated, I sometimes engage in a bit of topical conversation with them, but it becomes clear in a minute or so, that they don't have the knowledge or training or authority to help. The problem is that if you ask for their supervisor, you either get disconnected or more of the same.

I want the jobs back in US. But, it isn't because I am averse to speaking to someone overseas or to someone with an accent. It is because when I need help, I really want it without a three hour delay playing "how many times can you be transferred and to how many locales before you give up."

[mwooldri]

107. Thumbs up to that!

And that's from a US-based CSR "Supervisor".

;)

[jberryhill]

89. Scots never learned English

I've seen television programs in the US where Scots needed English subtitles.

[mwooldri]

115. As an honorary Scotsman I'd take a wee bit o' offence ta tha' remark.

Ye never drank t' Whisky before watching the telly, aye?

Whisky means ye ne'er hae' ta watch subtitles!

[OnlinePoker]

134. I've seen programs where Americans from the deep south need subtitles. n/t

[jberryhill]

135. Wouldn't surprise me

[Manifestor_of_Light]

137. Like the guy with his own American TV Show, Craig Ferguson?

He's very understandable. Usually. His monologues don't make me laugh, though.

I once fell over laughing watching Billy Connolly talk about his "hoose on the loch". House on the lake.

[jberryhill]

140. Read his bio - it took five years of speech therapy before he could say "hello"

...and be understood by anyone south of Manchester

[Go2Peace]

112. Are you also aware that the majority of the indian nationals in this country

were of the top Castes in their home country?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

Pretty much only the priviledged castes get a full education in India.

[mwooldri]

117. Sadly, you're right.

The caste system in India is as much a hot button topic as the "race card", if not more so.

[Codeine]

41. Meanwhile the guy on the other end is thinking

"I wish this guy would shut up with his silly yuppie guilt and tell me how many lights are showing on the front of his router because I have a fucking job to do here and fulfilling his desire to feel good about himself ain't it."

[SnakeEyes]

48. lol n/t

[90-percent]

64. silly yuppie guilt?

My motivation is to engage anybody I can on the state of American empire. I don't have yuppie guilt, in that I'm not a yuppie, I run a fucking machine for a living, which is not exactly the top of the list for yuppie career goals. (I have been involved with manufacturing in America - almost entirely CNC machines, for the last 30 years, which I hold with some pride.)

I also engage cashiers, baggers, countermen, my Congressmen, my Democratic Town Committee, car buddies, co-workers, old friends and relatives on the current state of American Empire. I even counter protested at the 9-11-09 tea party rally at the Hartford Capitol. In the belly of the beast, and teabaggers are people too. Walking around such people carrying a sign that read "tea baggers are astroturf puppets of fascist corporations". I encountered no other yuppies carrying similar signs, by the way.

what amazes me is how many Americans GET IT as far as where our government is going. I engaged an office guy at work recently. He has been with my company for 38 years, and this was our first conversation, and he actually advocated ANOTHER REVOLUTION in America. And I thought I was pissed off!

-90% Jimmy

[totodeinhere]

95. Fair enough, but in turn they should apologize to you for taking a job away from an American.

You might say that it's not their fault that they are doing an American's job. It's the fault of a big corporation that outsourced that job in the first place. That may be true, but likewise, US foreign policy is not your fault either. So fair is fair.

[Enthusiast]

28. K&R Love that Alice's Restaurant! nt

[whathehell]

37. Great idea....I'm going to do this from now on. n/t

[1American]

38. To MsFlorida

Sorry to tell you this, Sweetie, but you were transferred to an Indian once again--one with a real American accent who has lived here. After requesting an American tech, I got one, or so I thought. After an hour of chatty-chatty, she knew too much about my state and my city. She finally admitted she grew up here and was no longer a U.S. citizen.

Con job. THAT's what happened to you.

[whathehell]

58. Sorry to tell you this, "Sweetie"

but your condescension is in inverse proportion to your knowledge.

You may have gotten a "con job"...How, in fact, do you know that her situation matched yours?

[sarcasmo]

47. Good to know that we have the option. Tried to explain to my niece that all of the stuff she loves

buying at IKEA is just cheap crap made in China.

[fatbuckel]

49. Because we need all those customer service minimum wage jobs back in America.

[whathehell]

62. Not minimum wage, bro...At least not the one that I worked...It paid well above that.

No, it's not a "professional" salary, but so what?...It would help a LOT of our unemployed now.

[Hello_Kitty]

143. Yeah, it's not like we have high unemployment here or anything. eom

[bluestate10]

50. Before you buy products, try to find out where they are manufactured.

Companies that manufacture products in the USA tend to have customer service in the USA. There was a time when I just purchased what I wanted without concern about where it was manufactured, I stopped that practice two years back and am not checking the manufacturing locale of every product that I consider buying. I am not 100% successful i ending up with USA made products, but my success rate is higher than I would have imagined when I started my effort. Clothing purchase, in particular, have been excellent areas of focus.

[trud]

54. Good luck with that

HP India tech(sic) support, possibly the most incompetent people on the planet, will say they have no way to transfer you to US support.

[bluestate10]

73. Then buy some other computer brand. nt.

[trud]

88. other computer brand

I have several pavilion notebooks I bought off ebay for about $200 apiece over the years, and I scavenge parts from them to keep 1-2 working. I don't plan to buy another notebook again before I croak, if I can avoid it. The only reason I dealt with HP was when the original one, purchased from them, was under warranty.

If there's another computer brand with competent tech support, it was escaped my notice.

[elehhhhna]

63. spam alert. thius has been posted on freepy site (and here, quite a few times now)

and, coincidentally, each and every poster had spent 5 hours (!) on the line with foreign customer service.

myazz.

[femrap]

65. I'll join you....

yes, we have a movement.

[briteleaf]

70. Buy AMERICAN MADE supported by AMERICAN EMPLOYEES

All of these corporations are only there to make money. Having products made, assembled or supported overseas (Firing your US employees and shipping those jobs overseas) makes more profit. There is only one way to change it. It is a 3 step process that we can all do:

1.STOP BUYING products made or supported overseas.
2.Let the company/corporation know why you are no longer buying their spiffy product.
3.Ask your friends and family to begin doing the same.

Lowering sales is the only leverage we have in making business respond to customers. Education is the big key.

[bluestate10]

74. 1,000,000% agree with everything you wrote. nt

[Speck Tater]

78. It can't work.

The whole American way of life is built upon a foundation of exploiting poor countries, and it always has been. Whether it's bananas from some "banana republic" or sweatshop labor in China, what little is left of the American economy would collapse into dust without somebody to exploit somewhere else in the world.

Imagine a housing tract with 100 houses holding 100 families. Build a high wall around that tract with no entrances or exits. What kind of economy could that group of 100 families have? Let's suppose there is enough land to grow some food and enough birds flying over to be shot down with bows and arrows to provide a little protein. Let's suppose there are enough trees (real wealth) for manufacturing bows and arrows. What would their standard of living be? Where would their "living wage" come from? Does everybody earn $2000 a month by mowing the lawn of the person across the street from them?

Now figure out what it would take to give them a decent standard of living. Aside from a sustainable hunter-gatherer society, or a subsistence agrarian society there is no economic model that works without finding some group of people to exploit for their labor, natural resources, or both.

Do you have anything electronic? A cell phone? A TV set? A car? How much copper, selenium, tantalum, silver, etc., does it take to make one of those devices? Where do those elements come from? The Chilean copper miners don't have your standard of living. They MUST be exploited for their copper in order for you to have ANY electronic product, not to mention the copper wiring that stretches hundreds of miles to bring you electricity, cable TV, and Internet. All of that happens on the exploited backs of the Chilean copper miners who can't afford the products they make it possible for you to own.

The American way of life is built on exploitation of others. Instead of trying to hide from that ugly truth why not just simply accept that you and I and everyone on this forum are part of the lucky exploiter class, and that the poor third-world slobs we exploit are just out of luck.

If you really want to help the global situation, stop living like a rich pampered exploiter and start living like the rest of the globe lives, in a leaky mud hut without running water and scrounging for firewood to cook your meager dinner of rice and beans. It's either live like what the planet can physically sustain for everyone or accept your status as exploiter and enjoy the fruits of that exploitation.

[quakerboy]

108. I agree in theory.

However in reality this is much harder than it seems.

If I convince my boss we need to hire another person, where can I find a computer made in the USA? and I don't mean, pieces snapped together here, but all the real manufacture done elsewhere?

When my cellphone dies, where can I buy a cell phone that was manufactured in the USA?

I wear large clothing, as I am a large person. Where can I find jeans that I can wear, made in the USA?

I have worn Chaco sandals for many years, and I particularly appreciated that they were made in USA. That changed a few years back. Is there an equivalent sandal that I can purchase that is still made in the US?

I could go on. Cookwear. Auto parts. Anything electronic. Light bulbs. Things that are often necessary to avoid arrest for indecent exposure, things that are necessary for work, things that are necessary for home life. Then you jump to the pure luxury items, and start over again.

It ain't so simple and easy as it sounds. Ive been trying. Sometimes its flat not possible anymore. Things are too far gone.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

76. Call Centers are coming back to the US, in the form of "Home-Shoring" more details:

There's a new trend in call centers that seems to be catching fire.
It is called "home shoring".

This is people working from home, plugged into a call center company's software and
phone system.

These folks receive the calls and assist customers.

There are some companies that pay a regular wage just like a brick and mortar job,
and then there are other companies that pay the worker as a contractor.

The best companies pay wages.

Not just anyone can get these jobs, they have to pass a very stringent background check.

But the trend is growing because customers prefer to hear an American voice.
It is also helpful for the customer service agent to have similar culture.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

79. Speaking as a non-American, I don't regard employing people in other countries as immoral. N.T.

[whathehell]

93. That's nice...

but since you ARE speaking as a non-American, you're not necessarily in our situation, are you?

[Posteritatis]

119. Ahhh, yes; the US is the only country in the world with outsourcing issues. (nt)

[whathehell]

121. I never said that it was..and my response was framed as a question

Anyone wishing to "open up" about their own countries' outsourcing issues is more than welcome to do so!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

139. The issue is the same for most rich countries.

Some countries have much higher living standards than others at every centile, due at least in part to historical and ongoing exploitation of one-sided trade relationships; in an attempt to preserve that inequality they are now trying to use their economic clout to force companies to keep their wealth in rich rather than poor countries.

[whathehell]

142. Most rich countries may have outsourcing issues,

but I would bet the impact is less severe for the workers in the "other" countries, such as those of Europe.

I say this because my understanding is that the European countries are more apt to protect their workers via the application of tariffs, etc.

[jberryhill]

144. If Indians want to eat, that's what UNICEF is for

The way this is supposed to work is that we keep our jobs and send them a few bags of rice or whatever, when we see disturbing pictures of them on TV.

[whathehell]

145. Except for that other possibility...

that being that they create their own jobs.:eyes:

[Alexander]

80. Our company doesn't have any overseas representatives.

They're all located in two places, both here in the US.

[totodeinhere]

97. It's not right to outsource jobs that should be going to Americans. Also, it's not right to force me

to try to deal with someone whose accent is so thick that I have trouble understanding what in the hell they are trying to say. If my computer is broke down I need to talk to tech support that I can understand since my computer is very important to me.

[customerserviceguy]

99. I occasionally am asked where I'm at

My accent is Western, as I came to the East Coast from the Pacific Northwest only a few years ago. I do assure them that I work in the same state (NJ) that they are located (we are a local utility company) and that my taxes go to the place where they're paying for our services.

[orbitalman]

101. Didn't know that could be done, but I will always do the same!!!!! n/t

[Patchuli]

103. So did I !!!! I wasted 30 minutes with the nice guy in India

trying to make sure that our automatic payment was going to work for 1/1/11 and he told me he could not tell me. This was after I had to repeat a 10 digit acct. number 3 times, etc. I just said "May I speak to a rep in the United States, please?" Him: "Excuse me?" like he couldn't believe I was going to bypass him and/or I wasn't fooled that he was here in the U.S. The next person (in the U.S.) was better able to help me. These businesses have to know that these CSRs overseas may be nice and polite, but if they can't do the job, then they shouldn't be hired. I think you should tax the crap out of companies that offshore!

[ohheckyeah]

104. I have more trouble understanding

some New Yorkers than Indians.

[ZombieHorde]

105. You should boycott America for killing all those people in the Middle East. nt

[DesertFlower]

110. my husband has done it.

[harun]

113. I have family oversea's that work in Call Centers. They need the work, bad.

Just say'n.

[ekelly]

125. I have family HERE who have NO JOBS!...

P.S. They need the work, BAD!

Just sayin'

[jeanpalmer]

148. Can we get Obama to make one of these call

so he can develop a clue where all the jobs have gone? That way, the next time he meets at Blair House with the outsourcing CEOs he won't be telling them how wonderful they are, but instead the first words out of his mouth will be "bring those fucking jobs back."

[jillan]

114. I think I will do this from now on, and hum Alice's Restaurant while on hold!

[tooeyeten]

124. Remember

to tell your US service rep "thank you" and tell them to advise their supervisors of your gratitude.

[dark forest]

127. Ya know,

that's a good idea. I'm going to try it. Thanks.

Won't bring the jobs back, though , I think.

[crim son]

128. I'm a CSR at LLBean.

All their reps are based in the U.S. - in Maine, actually - but all their product is not American. I take comments from customers every single day about their anger at having to buy apparel made outside the U.S. and I'm required to pass such remarks on so that the company can gauge consumer response to their outsourcing. It DOES make a difference if you complain, and it makes more of a difference if you refuse to buy foreign made goods. Lastly, while it's probably a great idea to insist on American made, that doesn't make it a bad idea to insist on CSR reps who are easily understood and who easily understand the customer. It isn't an either/or proposition, IMO.

[Skittles]

129. I deal with offshore all the time

when I see the oncall is offshore, I add 2 -5 hours to my estimated fix time because they STINK

[tavalon]

133. Funny, during the beginning of your discussion, I thought of Alice's Restaurant

I don't know if I scan full postings without being aware or if we were just on the same page, there.

[blueamy66]

150. Good for you!

I was on hold with PayPal for over 30 minutes today....I finally just opened up a new account!!