Reply #6: Does anyone here really think

[Occam Bandage]

that Iraqis wouldn't have formed resistance movements had the US not tortured? That is to say, that the PNAC plan was entirely sound except for the fact that we tortured people?

I can accept and accept easily that torture most likely caused more American deaths than it prevented. I would accept and accept easily that torture and detainee abuse increased support for terrorists and insurgent groups, causing perhaps dozens and maybe even hundreds of American deaths. But to claim that Iraqi anger at methods of fighting the Iraq insurgency--methods that were not made public until years into the war--was the majority cause of the insurgency seems bizarre. I think our sanctions (killing half a million), our invasion, our declare-victory-while-Baghdad-burns attitude, our failure to provide Iraqis with electricity and water, and our half-blind aerial bombing campaign might have something more to do with the insurgency than our mistreatment of detainees.