Reply #13: most of the Canadian establishment started after 1776

[Lisa]

Canada's version of the Mayflower (wealthy aristocratic upper-crust) was the United Empire Loyalists -- people who moved up here after the War of Independence. They settled in the Maritimes, Quebec (which had been pretty much overwhelmingly French until then), and Ontario (a.k.a. "Upper Canada"). There had been a lot of strife created by that war -- really more like a civil war, really -- Jimmy Carter discusses it in his recent novel, and the Mel Gibson movie "The Patriot", which made up a lot of stuff, did have some of the sentiments down.

It's ironic that this "ruling class" is also the one that people like Margaret Wente and Jeffrey Simpson admire so much (while complaining about how anti-American the proles are!).

So basically, one of our founding population groups was opposed to the American republic. Add to that the War of 1812 a few years after (with the burning of the White House), and a couple of conflicts later in the 1800s -- and I think it's safe to say that Canada has a long tradition of seeing itself in opposition to the States. If not in an active, adversarial, "whatever they like we're opposed to" fashion.

I agree with some of what Nora and Margaret and various others have noted. There wouldn't be a Canada, as we know it, if America had never existed. And because of what geographers call a core-periphery relationship (the US is stronger, richer, and more developed -- we still are subordinate in terms of exporting commodities rather than finished goods, except for stuff made by US branch plants here) -- there IS a certain degree of resentment. American companies are profiting from our resources and our labour (they wouldn't be trading with us if they didn't!).

It's natural for people to gripe. It happens in the States too -- regions which aren't as well off complain about richer areas. Rural areas mutter about the big powerful cities. People make fun of California or New York. Everybody gripes about Washington, D.C. (including Bush, who works there).

And Canada has its share of people who would rather whine about stereotypes than thinking about what they might be doing wrong themselves, or considering that there are plenty of Americans who aren't "ugly".

BUT -- in mainstream Canada, vicious anti-Americanism is rare. Yes, there are people who like making snide comments about the presumed ignorance and arrogance of Americans, but because there's been a pretty much continuous exchange of people since our countries were founded, the vast majority of Canadians have relatives, friends, and business contents in the States. (Because of our settlement pattern, most of us live a few hours' drive from the border, so it's rare to meet an adult Canadian who's never been to the US.) And if you demand that they clarify their comments, they pretty much have to admit that they're wrong.

Small consolation that many of the Canadians who are slagging Americans also have nasty things to say about other Canadians (those stupid "Newfie jokes", or "frogs", or Alberta rednecks, or Ontario yuppies ...)

They're just those kinds of people. Every country has them. I wish it weren't true, but it is. Sorry, eh?

The CBC and other news media up here are showing us that there are plenty of Americans who are NOT like Bush and his ilk -- and in particular, the ones who are living among us tend to share many of our beliefs. So they're absolutely the wrong ones to be slamming! People who insist on buttonholing US expatriates are simply not paying attention.

To Americans who are thinking of moving up here but are worried that they will be condemned -- please, many of us are sympathetic and would welcome you.

I've heard from Canadians living in the States that they get hassled too sometimes -- I also remember one guy I met while visiting friends in Oakland, who kept teasing me about my accent (until other Americans told him to shut up).

p.s. My officemate, a US expatriate who's reading this message, wantes to add that "it's really not that bad" up here compared to some of the arguments she's had over politics with her neighbors in the US lately.