Reply #57: Teachers are hard to remove...

[cannondale]

--> Note that my HS is somewhat unique. Great pay, great benefits, and almost complete autonomy. Your mileage, I'm certain, will vary. I understand that in many school districts, poor administrators make more of a difference, or little autonomy, pay, or benefits. In the larger scope of the topic, I do not want business to take over. I agree that there are other systemic problems that also ned to be addressed, but policing your own should be included.<--

I do not know what state you are in, but in my county in PA there are so few removals that having one happen makes the front page because of it's uniqueness... about once every few years. It requires something glaring, but rarely poor skills. Kill somebody, rape a student, or fake your credentials (I kid you not). Teachers may be given "due process" which I agree with, but then the process ends and all of them are still here.

You cannot discount the fact that there ARE many bad teachers. They ARE harder to remove than any other profession I have been in or worked with. You cannot simply say that "... the systemic problems facing public education have little and nothing to do with "bad" teachers." I taught with some "bad" teachers, and the percentage is near the number of bad computer consultants and bad business owners, or bad ______ for that matter. For some of these teachers, "bad" is not even subjective since the entire community would like to see them removed. Is 5% enough to ruin a district? 10%? What if most every student, parent, administrator, AND teacher agrees that a teacher should be removed?

I know of a math department in a HS that is single-handedly lowering math education at the school. At least one has been placed in the "due process" procedure by the admin. Years later, they are still there. There is only one way to quickly correct this problem: get several new math teachers. A new HS administrator? No help, even when they are strong leaders. More pay, well beyond inflation? Tried that. Keep the benefits better than even administrative hospital workers? Nope, been there too.

Each state has some unique problems. In PA, in many schools, the teachers are given a lot of autonomy. I can vouch for the schools in my area, and for a tough teacher's union (a business itself). It appears that FL is different, and I would not want businesses (especially if they have anything to do with a Bush) to run the school. But if you want to keep an even keel on a discussion such as this, please do not make generalized points that are easily refuted by the opposition (I'm not even the opposition). Teachers are damn near impossible to fire. Sorry, it is true.

I think it is safe to say that there is a similar percentage of bad teachers and the other professions you list. The number of bad teachers is very high of course, but the percentage is on par with others. You cannot ignore them, as many administrators do... sometimes because the admins are bad at their jobs, other times because the union is too strong.