Reply #40: Typical--don't like the news? Gripe about the cites. Sorry--NOT propaganda.

[MADem]

Did you read the damn things? Obviously not.

You might link your SOURCEWATCH complaint, so we know what they're talking about--from that clip, they could be complaining about the Centre's approach to farming, it's so vague.

But see--that's what happens here. Don't like the points made, play "Waaah, I don't like your source." You haven't come up with a single source in refutation, either (a vague quote without a link is BS, and you should know that).

So, one source is biased (but you failed to address their STATISTICS, their figures, that placed Canada in the FAILURE category--way easier to just call them "bad guys" I guess), the next source is too rightwing, and the government official is oh, a big old poopy butt.

Everyone's lying but you, apparently! And you aren't backing up your claims--you're just, er, shooting the messenger.

But hey, I'll play your silly game. Let's ask the government about wait times, shall we? CANADA knows it has a problem with access, that's why they ginned up a frikin TEN YEAR PLAN to address the issue of wait times (obviously, they've been farting around and haven't solved the problem): http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/delivery-prestation/fptcollab/2004-fmm-rpm/index-eng.php

The MANITOBA LIBERALS admit that wait times are a mess in their party platform: http://mlp.manitobaliberals.ca/?page_id=220

The money quotes:

Our Goal: to Deliver Timely Access to Quality Care
Under the Filmon Tories, wait times were a disaster. But eight years after Gary Doer and the NDP took office,
Manitoba spends more of its provincial budget on health care than any other province, yet is ranked last by the Conference Board of Canada. Manitobans are still waiting too long for many procedures and it is harder to find a family physician, especially in rural areas. When it comes to health care, neither the NDP nor the Tories have delivered in the past, nor do they have plans for the future: their focus has been on the health care bureaucracy. Manitoba Liberals focus on the patient.

Manitoba Liberal health care priorities are clear: cutting wait times for major and diagnostic procedures; improving community health care, especially for rural areas; improving the recruitment of family doctors; doing more to fight preventable diseases like cancer, heart disease, diabetes and infant dental care; making health care safer by creating a Medical Procedure Improvement Team; and make improving Aboriginal health care a major priority.

That doesn't sound too swift, does it?

Promises have been made in BC...and not delivered: http://dailygleaner.canadaeast.com/cityregion/article/691138

And your effort to make this a "Liberal v. Conservative" issue (as though there are POVs that really matter when the house is burning down) is totally beside the point. It doesn't really matter, at the end of the day, to the people who are not getting the health care they need as to who screwed the system up, the bottom line is that the Canadian system IS (not is going to be, not is "headed down the road to") --it IS in serious trouble, right now. This minute.

And liberals in Canada have acknowledged that that is already happening, a year ago--these are liberals saying the system is a mess: http://www.nationtalk.ca/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10322

June 4, 2008 OTTAWA-The Conservative government's failure to honour the historic health accords of the previous government is slowly dismantling Canada's public health care system, Liberal Health Critic Robert Thibault and Public Health Critic Dr. Carolyn Bennett said today.
"The Conservative government is abandoning the efforts of the previous Liberal government and the provinces and territories which signed the historic 2003 Health Care Accord," said Mr. Thibault. "That plan set hard targets for progress in areas such as wait times reduction, universal drug coverage, and effective disease prevention and control. Abandoning those goals is a step towards the dismantling of our health care system."

The Health Council of Canada, the body responsible for monitoring progress on the 2003 Health Accord, released a report today showing that the timelines and objectives outlined in the Accord have not been met. The report shows a lack of progress in many areas, including Aboriginal health, catastrophic drug coverage, health human resources, and homecare.

"This failure should come as no surprise," said Dr. Bennett. "This is the same Conservative Party and government that dropped wait times from their list of election priorities, missed the December 2007 deadline to establish multi-year targets for wait times benchmarks, have made no progress on the 2005 agreement by Health Ministers to create an integrated pan-Canadian disease strategy, and have offered only toothless, piecemeal announcements since forming government two years ago."

OK, let's see what CTV has to say about this in the context of party platforms in recent elections--or are they "evil lying conservatives" too? http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080906/healthcare_elxnissue_080906/20080906?&s_name=election2008

Cuts to health care over the years have contributed to the two main areas of concern; patient wait times and doctor/nurse shortages. Canadians are worried about reports of patients crossing the border for treatment, as well as private clinics popping up, which is seen as a threat to publicly funded care.

Three years ago, a registered nurses organization in Ontario was highlighting the wait time issue in the context of elections:
http://www.rnao.org/Page.asp?PageID=122&ContentID=1270&SiteNodeID=160

Now, let's go to the issue of medical tourism, since you're in overwhelming denial about that, too. Here, read this, and don't try to tell me that PUBMED is in Harper's pocket. If there were no market for medical tourism, why are all these Canada-based medical tourism businesses in operation across the land?:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2231416

Delays for medical interventions such as hip and knee replacements, spinal surgery, and ophthalmologic procedures are a serious problem in Canada. Federal and provincial governments are struggling to shorten waiting lists and provide timely care. Patients often wait months to obtain appointments with specialists, undergo diagnostic tests, and receive treatment. Lack of access to family physicians can make obtaining care particularly difficult.

Recognizing that many Canadians are unable to obtain prompt treatment, medical tourism companies promote travel to medical facilities in other countries.1 Customers of these companies can purchase anything from cosmetic procedures and diagnostic examinations to kidney transplants, in vitro fertilization, cancer therapies, and orthopedic procedures. The cost of medical tourism packages varies greatly. Prices depend on the procedures clients select, where they travel, how long they intend to stay, and whether they choose postoperative accommodations in budget hotels or luxury resorts.

At least 15 medical tourism companies operate in Canada. One such company is located in Alberta, 1 is located in Manitoba, 7 are located in British Columbia, 3 in Ontario, and 3 in Quebec. This list does not include more traditional travel agencies advertising medical tourism packages: a Vancouver-based travel agency arranges trips to Bumrungrad International Hospital in Bangkok, Thailand; a Quebec travel agency markets travel to hospitals and clinics in India.

Stop trying to pretend there isn't a SERIOUS problem--there IS. And don't (I will ask, yet AGAIN) shoot the messenger for pointing it out.