Reply #28: Point by point for you:

[The Straight Story]

"Tell me what amount of legislation you consider appropriate?"
-The less the better. If we are going to pass laws on things lets think them out first and make as few as possible. Instead of making laws based on events and emotions.

"The reason you get a label, is because you are arguing about stuff that is so far from the reality in this country."
Free choice and exercising that is far from reality here? Maybe in a fundie based America it is, but not in the one I want to live in.

Freedom of belief, where to work, whether or not to have an abortion, whether or not a business can decide to allow smoking, whether or not we allow people to own guns, etc.

I get a label because some are too afraid to face the truth about what free choice really means (like those on the RW are) - that sometimes people don't make choices we don't like. And instead of embracing the diversity of people and their lives we want to limit it.

Although when it comes to folks on the left it seems we make excuses for why we want to limit freedom. We just couch it in a prettier language and instead of saying Jeebus made us do it we find other reasons to do the same thing.

"The constant equating of an informed society making decisions based on the best information out there with some sort of "far-lefty, eco fascistic" society is what makes it so laughable."

You mean the shiny object of the day? When do you stand on a solid and simple principle and go from there? If you keep moving the goal posts based on what we learned today we can twist that in many ways and erode peoples' freedoms easily.

If an informed society found it harmful to the rest of society when it came to something like abortions would you be in favor of outlawing them? I mean, people don't need to have abortions, they know what causes babies, and yet they still engage in sex. Abortions affect me in that they re-direct health care services away from sick people because some decided of their own free choice to have sex. Guys don't want to pay child support - keep it in your pants. Women don't want to get pregnant, keep your pants on.

An informed society might well take all that as gospel and deny other people their rights to free choice. And by the logic of some here that would just be fine and dandy.


"And there is an enormous difference between regulation based on scientific studies for instance and wanting abortion/gay marriage banned because Jeebus said so."

You mean the same scientific studies that today say one thing and tomorrow another? Mylar causes cancer. Oh wait it doesn't. I could spend a whole day discussing and showing scientific studies that contradict one another.

And I could show as well how often people choose to believe those studies if they support their own personal 'belief'.

At some damn point as a party and as a people we stand up for some principles.

Like gays should be able to serve in the military - even if some study from some guy with a degree tells us it might be bad for us. We allow women the freedom to choose what they do with their bodies, even if some folks don't agree it is a good idea.

When the hell did believing in freedom and having sensible government regulation become equated with being libertarian?

Oh I know - when fundies on both sides decided they did not have enough power to force their personal ideals on others.