Reply #15: lol, ahhhh mad hound, you warm

[zbiker]

the very cockles of my heart with such a passionate response. unfortunately much of your response is both incorrect and shows a amazing blind side to what century we are presently living in.
lets see where to start.....lets start here.

you said
"I think that your real concern is for domestic livestock,"

i am curious how you came to this conclusion, i am not a rancher/farmer, i have not hunted for over 30 years and want to let it known that our native elk herds are in danger because we have an extra keystone predator on the scene now that along with the grizzly, mountain lion,coyotes and other predators the pressure on the elk has reached a threshold.
then you said:
"Since Montana has the second largest elk herd in the US, one that outnumbers the actual humans that live in that state. I don't think that predation by wolves is making a huge impact."

wow what a blanket statement....
please bear in mind that Montana's elk herd freely migrate to wyoming and idaho on a yearly schedule,depending on what time of the year you take your head count any one of these three states could easily fluctuate these numbers. now keep in mind these elk have calving areas where they come to give birth every year, a wolf does not need to decimate a grown elk herd to devastate it, all it needs to do is simply wait till a cow elk is bedding down to give birth and then strike. it can either end up with a newborn calf or a full grown elk cow or both. it does not take much imagination to see where this would lead.
also keep in mind the wolves are not the only predators to adopt this stratagem, the griz are as equally adept at this feeding style. and they are the other keystone predator to take a notch out of the elk population.

then you tried to make this point:
And the funny thing is, folks up in Montana get monetary compensation, our tax money, for the livestock that wolves kill. Even funnier, the livestock killed by wolves isn't that much in the greater scope of things, about thirty head of cattle a year, about fifty sheep a year.
try explaining this then-
http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_24fec5a8-018c-11df-bdbc-001cc4c03286.html
in montana alone they were averaging a domestic animal per day, and that does not even include wyoming or idaho.
not to throw your assumptions out the window completely but have you seen the compensation ratio that is paid out vs what it costs to raise an animal. someone in washington did not know their math.

ah and then you touted this jewel :
But the reality is that ranchers and farmers simply hate wolves, damn near hunted them out of existence, and can't stand the fact that this noble species is actually trying to make a comeback in the states. Well, you know what, ranchers and farmers in Montana and elsewhere can simply go shove it. We need wolves in this country. The wolf once ranged throughout most of the US, and since its disappearance, deer have become a huge problem, causing wrecks, spreading disease, etc. We need the wolves to keep them in check.
i don't even know where to start with this statement.....we now live in the 21st century, we know that in todays world that their range is essentially gone forever due to the expansion of people over the last century. the wolf could never be trusted to control the deer population as they once did because things have changed. we cannot go back to the 1860's nor would you want to. oh it's ok for you to set somewhere else and say " the wolf should be free to be as he used to" as long as you don't haft to live with the detrimental effects he also brings with him on the area. and now he is beginning to suffer from the sentiment that has been brought to bear, a whole pack dies due to mange, a disease virtually unheard of for years in this area.