Michigan Preparing to Let Doctors Refuse to Treat Gays

[Ruffhowse]

(Lansing, Michigan) Doctors or other health care providers could not be disciplined or sued if they refuse to treat gay patients under legislation passed Wednesday by the Michigan House.

The bill allows health care workers to refuse service to anyone on moral, ethical or religious grounds.

The Republican dominated House passed the measure as dozens of Catholics looked on from the gallery. The Michigan Catholic Conference, which pushed for the bills, hosted a legislative day for Catholics on Wednesday at the state Capitol.

The bills now go the Senate, which also is controlled by Republicans.

http://www.proudparenting.com/page.cfm?Sectionid=65&typeofsite=snippetdetail&ID=1204&snippetset=yes

[Carolab]

1. I predict a mass exodus of gays from Michigan. n/t

[bluestateguy]

2. No. Michigan is not.

Governor Granholm will veto it.

[truthisfreedom]

3. legislated morality. we can fight this. doctors have a moral obligation

to treat everyone. not just those they personally deem "worthy." it's called the freaking Hippocratic oath.

[merwin]

5. Which has now been officially renamed 'hypocratic oath'

[Richard Steele]

15. Legislated MINORITY morality!

It's 2005, fer cryin' out loud!

Suddenly we need to fight against SH*T we killed decades ago?

To paraphrase Monty Python: "No one expects the Dark Ages!"

[woosh]

38. "No one expects the spanish inquisition!"

[rodeodance]

37. I would says-legislated IMmorality!!

[rodeodance]

55. all health care personal have this obligation-not just docs.

[raccoon]

82. Hypocritical oath, you mean? lol nt

[Briar]

98. Don't most doctors now refuse to take the Hippocratic oath?

Apart from anything else, it would interfere with their earning power...

[merwin]

4. 100 years from now people are going to look back on these years

the same way we now look back at slavery... with the 'what the hell were we thinking' mentality. Well, most of us at least.

[ffm172]

6. have they gone insane now?

what sick idea is that?

[thinkingwoman]

20. they're drunk with power

so drunk that they haven't realized that they've been found out. The fact that 70-80% of Americans disagree with them over the Schiavo case is not lost on the majority of Americans. The majority is right now mulling this over and coming to terms with the fact that they've been lied to by the minority and the media.

[Skittles]

24. I love that cartoon

my cat Clancy was so obsessed with a spot on the wall I finally used some whiteout on it. :o

[Systematic Chaos]

7. Well, the ultimate aim of bio"ethicists" is coming to fruition....

The power to decide who's "worthy" and who's not, and who lives and who dies. What a pathetic, horrible situation. :(

[truthisfreedom]

8. IF THEY DIE, THEY CAN'T BREED! ...oops... they don't anyway.

duh.

[adwon]

9. I'm ashamed to be a Catholic today

From the Michigan Catholic Conference website, specifically regarding social teachings.

Option for the Poor and Vulnerable
A basic moral test is how our most vulnerable members are faring. In a society marred by deepening divisions between rich and poor, our tradition recalls the story of the Last Judgement (Mt 25:31-46) and instructs us to put the needs of the poor and vulnerable first.

The codification of discrimination does not pass any test of helping the vulnerable that I know. The official position on homosexuality notwithstanding, people, whether they be saints or sinners, come before ideology.

My mother always taught me that the question God would want answered would be, "What did you do for the least of Me?" I may not know much, but I do know that the answer would not be, "Allow people to die because we were concerned about the feelings of those morally and ethically obligated to serve the weak and vulnerable."

[Hekate]

25. If Jesus could put his hands on lepers, for God's sake...

Jesus was reputed to heal lepers -- leprosy being a hideously feared disease in its own right -- he put his hands right on incurably sick people.

"Even as you have done for the least of these, you have done for me"

What in God's name are Michigan's Catholics thinking?

Since I'm not Catholic or a Michigander, I'll just say this makes me embarrassed to be a human being. :blush:

Hekate

[Delphinus]

44. Took the words right out of my mouth ...

Since I'm not Catholic or a Michigander, I'll just say this makes me embarrassed to be a human being. Hekate

This is simply incomprehensible!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

54. Those misguided, sick-minded, hateful Catholics...

Give the rest of us a bad name.
God also said "Judge lest ye be judged." And they always forget the part where God loves every person, just hates their sin. I'm not saying homosexuality is a sin necessarily, I'm just saying they think it's a mortal sin, and forget that God may hate the sin, but he loves the Sinner. Those people make me ill. My God wouldn't want us to treat each other like this no matter what was going on.
And your right. Jesus triumphed for the weak and Vulnerable. And quite a few homosexuals are poor and struggling to get by. Jesus was for the little guy, for the underdog. I think he's probably quite sick of what people are doing in this world in his name. It's sick and I'm ashamed of those people.
Duckie

[Jamastiene]

10. They already do it in NC

in a way, because the people around you see you as unworthy to send you there to begin with.

It sounds like something I've been predicting for a while now. I have a distate for doctors and shrink because of the sadistic nature of their "care" and this only worsens my opinion of them. Sorry if it offends anyone, but I just see such a callousness in those fields and the lie of "minor discomfort" when they are about to do something to you that hurts like hell is just hideous. Not to mention telling you to take Tylenol for serious chronic back pain. That's an insult.

[Hissyspit]

11. Illegal based on the Civil Rights Act of 1964

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3371081

ck4829 (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-28-05 12:56 PM
Original message
Mich. Bill that allows doctors to refuse to treat people is illegal


There has been some controversy about a bill that allowed doctors to refuse to treat GLBT people. Well, it's time to tell the Congressmen in Michigan that this bill is illegal.

Sec. 201 of the 1964 Civil Rights Acts reads, "All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation."

I believe that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 clearly states that what the Michigan RW is doing is illegal.

[UL_Approved]

14. Boy, that should be the understatement of the century

I'm gonna laugh if some nut refuses treatment to a GLBT person and gets this into the court system the same day that it passes. It will be a pretty quick trip to the top, and it will really show if we have any semblance of a working government at any level. :banghead: :popcorn:

[markus]

27. Any suggestion in federal court that gays are a protected class

would set of a shit storm like you haven't seen yet.

For now, I'm pretty sure they are not covered by the Civil Right Act, and I believe many provisions of the act are limited to Civil Rights states (the South).

[Delphinus]

46. Wasn't it "illegal"

for them to go against the Constitution with Terri's bill? Wasn't it illegal for them to give up their power to declare war? I don't think they care that they do things that are illegal.

[ConcernedCanuk]

12. Sooo - next step - no gay or lesbian health workers? - hmmmm

.
.
.

Can't tell me there are not gays or lesbians working in the health system -

are they going to force them to leave?

is the next step to stop gays and lesbians having jobs too?

Talk about a country getting homophobic!

oh

here in Canukistan this kind of legislation OR behavior would be illegal

we got that silly thing called the Charter of Rights - and forbids discrimination SPECIFICALLY with respect to sexual orientation or religion

y'all got it backward down there!

("y'all" bein' ur government that is . .)

[mirandaod]

13. This is a new low.

Too sick.

[LTRS]

16. But where are the democrats protesting on the capitol steps?

No where to be found, of course. Democrats support equal rights (just silently, and in the dark).

[left is right]

17. if this passes

what would be next: mechanics refusing to fix their cars; green grocers refusing to sell to them fruits and vegetables; teachers refusing to educate them (or their children). Sick, sick, sick

[GoBlue]

18. Refusing medical service on ethical grounds...

now that is sick.

[ClintonTyree]

19. And people wonder why I rail against the Catholic Church........

:eyes: They've shown their true colors again and again. It's all about money and control. (sigh)......That's all I'm going to say about THAT. For now.

[still_one]

22. Isn't that what Jesus said about heaven

only the wealthy and the rich deserve heaven, the poor and sick are excluded

[atreides1]

76. Not all Catholics are the same

But I don't believe that all Catholics think that laws like this are right.

Being a former Catholic, what everyone has to remember, is that it's known as the Roman Catholic Church, with an emphasis from it's inception on pre-Christian Roman customs.

Not all the customs, just a few.

[still_one]

21. what does this say about the michigan Catholic conference?

They are suppossed to believe in god, but it seems quite ironc that "their" god who tried to help the poor and sick has no meaning in their lives.

[Skittles]

23. disgusting nt

[rodeodance]

28. "the bills promote the constitutional right to religious freedom."

This phase 'constitutional right to religious freedom' is being batted around in the Terri s. case also.


....."I think it's a terrible slippery slope upon which we embark," said Rep. Jack Minore (D-Flint) before voting against the bill.

Paul A. Long, vice president for public policy for the Michigan Catholic Conference, said the bills promote the constitutional right to religious freedom.

"Individual and institutional health care providers can and should maintain their mission and their services without compromising faith-based teaching," he said in a written statement. .....

[Silverhair]

26. Would YOU want to be treated by a doctor who didn't want to treat you?

Think about it.

For that matter, while I would disagree with such a doctor, as a matter of individual freedeom, they should have that freedom.

[truthisfreedom]

29. comes a time... it's called an emergency.

if people who signed on to the Hippocratic oath refuse treatment in an emergency, i say felony punishment.

[rodeodance]

30. "The Conscientious Objector Policy Act" should be titled "discrimin-

atory clause. (Reminds of the "clear skies initative")!!!

....The Conscientious Objector Policy Act would allow health care providers to assert their objection within 24 hours of when they receive notice of a patient or procedure with which they don't agree. However, it would prohibit emergency treatment to be refused......

[TahitiNut]

33. It's FAR more complex and egregious than that.

Think hospital. Think about all the technicians, nurses, residents, specialists on consults, and even paraprofessionals. Absolutely no patient in a hospital these days has control over selecting such personnel, let alone have the opportunity to interview them regarding their religious convictions, bigotries, or political attitudes. Obtaining safe care in a hospital is already problematic - and any patient without a diligent advocate (relative or friend committed to riding herd) is really rolling the dice. It's not at all likely that such refusals and avoidances would even be open and candid - just a bunch of dropped balls and gaps in care.

This 'legislation' is an abomination - I'd call it a crime against humanity if they pass it. I don't think that's hyperbole.

[fasttense]

39. The problem is I can object to so many things about a person.

If I object to their drinking then I don't have to provide them services? If I object to unwed mothers, then I don't have to look after their newborns. If I object to your religion then I don't have to take care of you.

[Silverhair]

42. Clarification

As people become more educated, they also strongly tend to become more tolerant. I think that very few doctors would want to refuse treatment, and those that do would be ostracized by their peers. So I don't see this as a real problem.

[salin]

50. In a larger community, where there

are more medical facilities... perhaps.

In a very small community, where there is limited outside influence, and that education may have been earned years ago... And where there are not other options as to care providers?

WOuld you want for yourself, of any loved one - to take that risk in a life or death emergency situation?

Whose next on the list of who they can object, free of punishment, to provide life saving medical treatment?

[Silverhair]

53. This is aimed at abortion, not gays.

I finally read the article. The gays are seeing it as a direct attack on them, but once I read it I realized that it is aimed at letting nurses refuse to participate in abortions without being punished.

Unless it is relevant to a medical condition, doctors will not ask sexual orientation. I have never been asked what mine is.

[peacebird]

101. even if the docs ignore this, a law legallizing DISCRIMINTATION

is a major problem.

The fact that elected officials are willing to sign their names to this legalization of discrimintaion is chilling.

[JerseygirlCT]

56. A doctor unwilling to treat a patient b/c of his/her sexual

orientation ought to lose their license. They have no business practicing medicine.

[Silverhair]

59. This is aimed at abortion, not at gays.

The GLBT community is seeing this with a rather narrow perspective. When I actually read the article it became obvious that abortion was the target.

[JerseygirlCT]

66. It's poorly written

b/c denying treatment to a group of people seems to be allowed. Denying a certain treatment (ie, abortion) is another thing.

And there ought to be very stringent rules about that situation, as well. Such as the medical professional ought to be required to make his/her limitations known before accepting a patient. And referrals ought to be made.

I know the law was made with an eye to limiting reproductive health choices, but if it's worded as I'm reading... (and no, I haven't read the actual legislation yet), then it's very poorly written, indeed. Is that intentional or accidental? I don't know.

[JerseygirlCT]

69. Also:

I have to add: Catholic theology wouldn't require anyone to deny service to a person. Homosexual orientation is not wrong in this theology -- homosexual ACTS are. Denying medical care to any person would be most unChristian.

Another example of rampant hypocrisy in the extreme fringes of religion.

[M155Y_A1CH]

94. Target/Shmarget

It seems like a scatter-gun blast from here.

[donco6]

72. Really?

Wow.

To think that I would have to worry about whether I would be able to receive treatment at the doctor - not because I don't have insurance, but because the doctor just might say "no" - well, that's pretty scary.

Most of the time it's not an issue, because I don't wear a "I'm a gay man" sign on my body. But there's a different level of communication with a doctor. It's important for them to know that I'm gay because it can be pertinent in diagnosing some illnesses. To think that now gay people would withhold this information out of fear - well, it's appalling.

[Vladimir]

80. I'd want the doctor struck off

NO COMPROMISING WITH EQUAL RIGHTS!

[Straight Shooter]

96. Aaaaarrrrggggghhh!

"... as a matter of individual freedom, they should have that freedom."

I can offer several arguments, but here's one: If they don't want to treat particular individuals on *cough* religious or *cough* moral grounds, then let them set up their own individual practice instead of tainting the hospital environment.

Peer pressure. Let's get a bunch of homophobic sanctimonious doctors to run the show. Jeebers.

[acmavm]

31. This is just so disgusting on so many levels. But then what can you

say about an organization that is nothing more than a 'good ol' boys club' (women have no rights in the Catholic church except to shut up and obey orders). To say that it is a healthcare provider's right to deny healthcare to someone who needs it because they are gay or lesbian is so mean spirited and petty I can't even understand it. I do not understand how people can justify harming another person on the basis that they don't agree with them on an issue like this.

I just do not understand.

[rodeodance]

32. "health care workers"--does this apply to other personal?-not just

doctors as the headline implies. I tried to do the clickable but it would not come up.


,,,,(Lansing, Michigan) Doctors or other health care providers could not be disciplined or sued if they refuse to treat gay patients under legislation passed Wednesday by the Michigan House.

The bill allows health care workers to refuse service to anyone on moral, ethical or religious grounds. ,,,,,,

[rodeodance]

34. The gay community has worked years to prevent discrimination in

health care institutuons-and now this bill comes along and says it is OK~!!!! I do not understand either--it is beyond mind bogling to me.

[fasttense]

35. No where in the article does it quote the bill as applying specifically

to gays or homosexuals. So then if you are Jewish and I object to you circumcising your child, I can stop the procedure? If you are an unwed mother and I object to your lose morals, I can stop you from having a pap smear? If you are black, and I believe whites and blacks should be kept separated, I can stop you from being taken care of in a white hospital? The list goes on and on. But my favorite is: If you are republican, and I object to you lying and being a hypocrite, I can stop you from getting your gall stones removed.

[rodeodance]

36. will this discrimination be extended to convicted felons?- unwed moms

-or maybe just because you use birth control pills if someone considers these persons 'immoral'---Where does it end?

[raccoon]

85. Great post, fasttense.

THis is disgusting. If doctors don't want to treat homosexuals, they shouldn't become doctors. Same as with the idiot pharmacists who don't want to fill prescriptions for birth control pills.

[last1standing]

40. I'm from Michigan and this is just sick.

Does anyone know of a protest being organized? If not, maybe we can get one up?

[BreweryYardRat]

41. Holy shit....

What the FUCK are these imbeciles smoking?! How the hell can they possibly think that's a good idea?

Especially since the language in their bill, as one poster said, doesn't just exclude gays. These assholes obviously haven't thought this thing through in their bigotry. Fuck them and fuck the Catholic Church for promoting this little stunt.

I weep to be an American when shit like this happens.

[Mist]

43. I hope I'm not being naive but

How many doctors would be inclined to refuse treatment to gay patients? I hope the huge majority of doctors couldn't care less about the sexual orientation of patients. I'd like to think that this is political grandstanding by pols, that will have little effect on who doctors treat.

[Mend]

49. As a doctor, I agree with you...

Does anyone know what the Michigan doctors say? I have been a doctor a long time, back when there was segregation, through AIDS, abortion illegal and legal, and I can't remember any group of us refusing to treat anyone based on anything except ability to pay, and there are rules about that, too. Hopefully, this law will turn out to be an empty, though evil, gesture and not affect anyone's health care.

[donco6]

73. You're probably right, but . . .

. . . it's just another one of those things that we have to worry about. Technically, we COULD be refused treatment. Who else has to worry about that? It just further reinforces the impression that gays are the lowest of the low . . . that we really don't deserve to live.

It's kinda hard to take sometimes.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

91. As a nurse in Key West, I had many gay patients

I never heard one word from another nurse ever suggesting that treatment be withheld. I did have several nurses aides who would insist on double gloving and wearing a mask and gown when taking care of an AIDS patient. When I educated them about proper care and precautions, they would always say, "But how can I keep from 'catching' AIDS?" and my answer was always, "Be careful who you sleep with."

[Mist]

100. VERY glad to hear this from someone in the profession! n/t

[rodeodance]

57. to actually have this written into State Law is what scares me-even

though I think only a small percentage of people will actully take advantage of it.

[arwalden]

45. Why Would CATHOLICS Support Such A Thing?

I keep hearing that CATHOLICS aren't that repressive and regressive. Why in the world would someone support and push such a bill???

[Bridget Burke]

63. The Michigan Catholic Conference is responsible.

They are an organization of Catholics founded in 1963 for political purposes. Apparently the initial concerns had more to do with social justice--but that was the 60's.

They also sell insurance & do business for the dioceses of Michigan. So they're in it for the money.

Odd, most states don't have similar organizations for Catholics.

www.micatholicconference.org/general_info/

[mainer]

47. it's not just gays. The "religious grounds" adds many others

What if you're a wiccan? an atheist? Could they refuse you if you're a jewish activist?

[salin]

52. Or Muslim? Or the wrong "kind" of protestant?

what a scary age we have regressed to.

[Silverhair]

48. This is aimed at abortion, not gays.

Gays may get hit by it too, but they aren't the target. The article says: "The Conscientious Objector Policy Act would allow health care providers to assert their objection within 24 hours of when they receive notice of a patient or procedure with which they don't agree. However, it would prohibit emergency treatment to be refused."

Many nurses don't want to be part of an abortion and have refused to help in one and have been punished for it.

The OP was very misleading, putting this forward as a GLBT vs. doctors issue. I suppose they see everything through that lenses, but it looks like they are only getting sideswiped, not directly run over.

[Bridget Burke]

61. Where's the history of nurses being punished for avoiding abortions?

Aren't most abortions done in clinics where it is known that pregnancy termination is offered? With the shortage of nurses, is it so hard for them to get jobs where they can avoid the unpleasantness? Some real information on nurses who have been "penalized" would be useful.

The main thrust of the bill is not specifically anti-gay, but the laws could be used against them. Why should they trust that they are protected?

Would gay health-care providers be allowed to refuse caring for homophobic Republicans?

[rodeodance]

78. nurses can avoid caring for such pts. if arrangements if others are

available to care for them. But, no, we can not just 'abandon' care if no one else is available.

[donco6]

75. Why are you defending this law?

I can't imagine on what basis it would be appropriate for anyone.

[M155Y_A1CH]

99. Great salve you got there

Only side-swiped, gee, that's a relief!

[Krupskaya]

51. Bill number, please?

Proudparenting is the only place I've seen this reported. Can someone put up another link, or at least a bill number?

[Bridget Burke]

62. Is it House Bill 5006?

I Googled the title of the bill & this popped up. The full text is available & quite interesting.

www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=2003-HB-5006

Hospices are included in the institutions forbidden from penalizing employees who object to procedures. Of course, they can't use these objections in hiring decisions. Given the Right Wing attitude we've seen toward Hospice Care, this is a great opportunity to cause trouble.

[Krupskaya]

81. That's from two years ago.

Many of those sponsors aren't even around anymore.

Help, anyone! Is this a recycled story?

[0007]

58. Leaning more and more into those Nazi Germany days, eh?

Next thing ya know, everyone will be identified by a tattoo.

[RT_Fanatic]

60. Wow. This is sad.

Catholics pushed for this? Shameful. Disgusting. UN-Christian.
:puke:

[cap]

64. public health issues and the hippocratic oath...

contagious diseases know no bounds... what about spreading disease to the rest of us?

what about the moral obligation of the hippocratic oath?

[superconnected]

65. What ever happend to all men are created equal, you know our constitution?

true they should change it to "all people", but I always assumed that it still meant everyone had the same rights.

Apparently, I was mislead. My public schooling said, insisting on equal treatment of everyone in our country was exactly what America stood for, and why we were special.

I guess I'm just ticked that I was mislead from 1st - 12th grade and then throughout college.

They really put one over me with their unamimous insistence on this... I mean, every single teacher...

[EFerrari]

71. Whatever happened to, "First, do no harm"?

I don't recognize this country.

[NashVegas]

67. Wow a "Let's Be Health Care Whores" Bill

I wanna have a secure career where I can make 100k-300k per year, I want to be thought of as a god, I want to work in public service, but only for the public of my choosing.

What shit.

[Moosepoop]

68. This was discussed the other day

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3367265

The proudparenting.com article was written almost a year ago. Yes, the Michigan House passed this bill and sent it to the Senate at that time. But it died there in the Senate, in committee, and has not been reintroduced into this year's pending legislation. At least, not yet.

But for now, this is not an active measure.

[triguy46]

70. What kind of Christianity is this?

Jesus must be crying. He spent much of his ministry helping
social outcasts, hurt, "unclean" by levitical standards. But
today's Christian is too pure and holy to help someone suffering.

I've been employed in health care for 30 years as a calling, not a vocation. As such, I feel a moral and religious obligation to serve all who need help. How in the world can one in this profession do otherwise? Of course that is rhetorical. I know physicians who will
shout with glee that they are now so clearly empowered.

So would I be empowered to not treat Jerry Falwell because he offends my religious beliefs, which he does?

I'm amazed at just how low we can sink and still find room to fall farther. It is all so, so sad.

[Mr. Peanut]

74. Related to Pharmacists Not Filling Birth Control Rxs

Pharmacists' Rights at Front Of New Debate
Because of Beliefs, Some Refuse To Fill Birth Control Prescriptions

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, March 28, 2005

Some pharmacists across the country are refusing to fill prescriptions for birth control and morning-after pills, saying that dispensing the medications violates their personal moral or religious beliefs....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5490-2005Mar27?language=printer

[raccoon]

89. those scheisskopf pharmacists

should just be fired IMMEDIATELY.

[Renew Deal]

77. Can the governor veto this?

[rodeodance]

79. yes, she can

[w4rma]

84. And Vetoing this would be popular, too. (nt)

[Renew Deal]

86. Will she?

[noonwitch]

93. Probably she will

It's just plain wrong, and it's discrimination.

[w4rma]

83. This is evil. They'll treat criminals and mobsters. But a law abiding

citizen, and they are allowed to let them die. This is Satanic.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

87. Woo Hoo!

Finally! I can shed this faux liberal pretense and embrace my inner Nazi!

What is freaking wrong with these people?! You know, it's not just the individual legislators who voted for this -- although they are certainly to blame -- it's also the fact that none of them apparently believe that the electorate will rise up and throw them out of office for such an outrageous and patently anti-American act.

I don't recognize this country any more.

[Sabriel]

88. How about conducting experiments on twins? Is that still OK?

I'm going to have to get my brown shirts to the dry cleaners, I can see that....
(Beam me the hell out of here, Scotty!!!!!)

[raccoon]

90. in the usa, it's ok

if they're (a) non-white, (b) poor, (c) both a & b.

[NVMojo]

92. truly, this is shameful

[Krupskaya]

95. PEOPLE! WHAT IS THE DATE ON THIS? IS THIS RECENT?

Why can't I find anything about this in any Michigan newspaper?

[Mari333]

97. Want to help GLBT community in Michigan?

Heres a great place to start

I know the director, hes a great person

http://www.tri.org/

[Moderator]

102. Not Latest Breaking News

article cited is from 4/21/04
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/04/042204MichMed.htm