Texas may have put innocent man to death, panel told

[wicket]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/chitribts/20050420/ts_chicagotrib/texasmayhaveputinnocentmantodeathpaneltold

With Texas' criminal justice system the subject of intense scrutiny for a crime lab scandal and a series of wrongful convictions, a state Senate committee heard testimony Tuesday about the possibility that Texas had experienced the ultimate criminal justice nightmare: the execution of an innocent person.

-snip-

A Tribune investigation of the Willingham case last December showed that he was prosecuted and convicted based primarily on arson theories that have since been repudiated by scientific advances--a fact backed up by testimony Tuesday by one of those experts, Gerald Hurst.

According to Hurst and three other fire experts who reviewed evidence in the case at the Tribune's request, the original investigation that concluded the fire was arson was flawed, relying on theories no longer considered valid. It is even possible the fatal fire at the Willingham home in Corsicana, a small town about an hour south of Dallas, was accidental, according to the experts.

Nonetheless, before Willingham died by lethal injection on Feb. 17, 2004, Texas judges and Perry turned aside a report from Hurst in which he questioned the arson evidence and suggested the fire was an accident.

[greendeerslayer]

1. What A Shock...

...As many men as TX has killed this has probably happened a score of times.

[wicket]

4. so much for erring on the side of life!

[struggle4progress]

57. "We don't care if ee's guilty: somebody's gotta die."

[democrat in Tallahassee]

2. "we must always err on the side of life" except when I don't want to

[ewagner]

3. Damn!

another one of those conservative "...innocence is no excuse for stopping an execution." cases....

these guys piss me off...they think they're infallible.

[tavalon]

6. I don't know whether they think themselves infallable

but they sure as shoot don't wanna stop a good killin' and well, innocence, that thar can be sorted out by the Almighty!:sarcasm:

Not that anybody in my circle wonders why I want to leave Texas behind for good, but..............

[eaglenetsupport]

34. I've seen this quote before but I can't

remember the author being cited. Good you provide the quotes author please? I think it was in a Sup Ct. decision.

"...innocence is no excuse for stopping an execution."

thanks

[Occulus]

37. I think the quote goes

"Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached." -Antonin Scalia

[CitySky]

60. holy guacamole

:scared: that's awful

[Vitruvius]

78. It makes one want to try the experiment on Scalia

-- if execution is good enough for the innocent, it's good enough for a bloodthirsty ruling-class thug like Scalia.

But it will never, ever happen. Which is why Scalia is so vicious; he knows it can never happen to him.

[WindRavenX]

76. wow, what a facist fuck

:nuke:

[Sparky McGruff]

38. Pretty much that exact quote...

In the semi-recent Frontline episode on the death penalty, one of the justices on the Texas supreme court (may have been the chief justice, but I don't remember) said something almost exactly like that. Something along the line of "Just because a person is innocent of a crime doesn't mean that the death penalty should be overturned. It's entirely likely that he's guilty of something else." My jaw almost hit the floor when I heard that one whiz by.

[ewagner]

52. It was Scalia

in a dissenting opinion on a death penalty case.....

The Supreme Court in more than one state has ruled that "Evidence of actual innocence (such as DNA proof, new evidence of someone else committing the crime) can NOT be taken into consideration when one appeals a death penalty conviction, the court only addresses issues relating to the original trial. Thus, if you were falsely convicted, there are no grounds for a re-trial.

<http://www.spectacle.org/0800/tracy.html>

That is a reference to the quote but I can't put my finger on the actual quote.

[acmavm]

5. It's Texas, what do you expect? I doubt Gov. Goodhair even gives a

shit. The standard was set by a certain Idiot-in-Chief who likes to mock people about to die by lethal injection.

[tavalon]

8. Yep

and Karla Faye was a born aginner and even that didn't stop Mr. Err on the side of life from mocking her and then killing her. Yeehaw!!

[saskatoon]

54. oh yes! last part of Johnny's Bad Trip

So the bell had tolled, the deed was done
That ended a life that had bare begun
He was laid to rest in a freezing rain
To the lonesome sound of a distant train.

While in a mansion behind a gate
A rich man sat and laughed and ate
“No innocent man’s been condemned to die”
But the evidence room proved the words a lie
The semen, the blood, the DNA
Wasn’t a match for the youth who lay
In a muddy field across the state
From the rich oil man who had sealed his fate.

“Well Mom I’m off to take that train
But Mom I’ll soon come home again”
“Goodbye Johnny dear, I love you son
Now you take care and hurry home”
He was laid to rest in a freezing rain
To the lonesome sound of a distant train.
© Copyright 2002 by Grace M. Stevenson
[e-mail]

[Auntie Bush]

7. TEXAS and (most) everybody from it make me Sick!

Go Texas go! Go back to Mexico! And take George and Tom in tow!

[tavalon]

9. Thanks for the caveat

there are some reasonable people in Texas, though most of them live in Austin and don't dare venture outside the city limits.

[TahitiNut]

10. "Austin City Limits"??

D'oh! :dunce:

[BikeWriter]

16. *Sniff!*

[lastliberalintexas]

29. Well, the Bushes aren't from here

They happen to come from your neck of the woods. Neither were Phil Gramm (Georgia) and Dick Armey (South Dakota). Though we do have to take the blame for Tom Delay, but then every state has its wackos.

Though I'd actually love us to go back to Mexico, so that I could say my country opposed the invasion of Iraq.

[Ilsa]

44. Aw. My feelings are hurt.

Lots of good Dems here from Tx. We're trying our hardest to change things, but when someone like Tom DeLay is willing to break the law to get what he wants, it creates a whole new game.

[MADem]

45. My good friend lives (or should I say endures) in Houston

Not a rightie, not a fundie, just stuck there. It's where the job and the house and the kid are. Whaddaya gonna do? I don't blame the citizen for being trapped in a bad situation. And some good things have come out of Texas, I'm sure.

[ninkasi]

49. Another Texan checking in...

I was born and raised in Houston; I'm a fifth generation Texan. Many of us feel that this state has become a national joke. There are quite a few of us liberals here, but we are outnumbered by the right-wing nutters.

The way most of my family and friends cope is to just stay away from conservatives any time we can. I hope that if enough of us try,we can, just maybe, get some sanity and reason back. The right wing is drunk on power right now, and I don't think they can stop themselves.

They are addicted to power for the sake of power, and are prepared to bulldoze anything that stands in their way. Surely some old time conservatives will see the danger they are placing our country in, and try, from within their party, to at least stop the hard right kick they've been on since Chimp was illegally given the keys to the White House and the treasury.

[SammyWinstonJack]

53. Broad brush?

:eyes:

[Paladin]

56. Oh, Goody. Some More Anti-Texas Bigotry

In case you didn't realize it, there are hundreds of thousands of loyal Democrats in Texas; I happen to be one of them. It's tough enough down here without getting shit upon by fellow Democrats, which happens all too frequently these days in DU. It makes me sick---so I guess we have that much in common......

[CitySky]

63. Hey Dems, Move Down Here

We could use some help. But you've gotta:

(1) have the ability to confront ignorance with facts, preferably somewhat graciously, day in and day out
(2) not mind standing out in a crowd, and
(3) be willing to work yer butt off.

Oh yeah and (4) ya gotta be able to tolerate THIS kinda malarky on DU.

See, it takes a special kind to be a Dem in TX. So quit yer hand-wringin' and get down here.

[DemoTex]

11. Of the 152 executed by the Bu$h/Gonzalez tag-team ...

What are the chances that a couple of innocents (or more) slipped through the 15 minute clemency review? My guess is that it was more than just a couple.

[Goblinmonger]

17. 15 Minutes

That's pretty damn generous. I doubt that Bush's attention span is even 1/5 of that.

[leftchick]

20. That is why i am anti-death penalty....

In addition to:

"Why do we kill people to show that killing people is wrong?"

[DemoTex]

32. The Marquis de Lafayette said it best:

"I shall ask for the abolition of the punishment of death until I have the infallibility of human judgment demonstrated to me." ~ Marquis de Lafayette, staff member to George Washington during our revolutionary war, friend to Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, Military leader and Statesmen in France.

http://www.prisonactivist.org/pipermail/prisonact-list/2002-August/005651.html

[leftchick]

58. Why thank you for the quote DemoTex!

and I agree. That it is said the best! :)

peace,
lc

[frictionlessO]

64. Excellent Quote!!!

Thanks for that.

[DemoTex]

67. It has been my watch-word for years.

Including the bad eight years I spent in Texas as Gov. George W. Bu$h executed 152 human beings in my fucking name. Bloody murderer. Bu$h is no Christian. He will burn in hell.

[Burma Jones]

12. Wellll, ya gotta understand.......

As you can see from the link below, this guy MAY have served in an Oklahoma Boot Camp. He also was a High School dropout, Soooo, he wasn't any damn good anyway, right?

The people responsible for this travesty, the Prosecutors and the responsible parties at the Lab, should, at a minimum, spend the rest of their lives in prison. Personally, shit like this REALLY gets my "eye for an eye" stance going.



http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/willinghamcameronlast.htm

Oh, and how DARE he utter profanities at a state function.

[SnowGoose]

21. What a form!

Is this real? If so, I'm amazed that on a page which is obviously so summarized, that they would choose to include a line for "race of victim(s)".

I'm not sure why that would be relevant ~ if you were only going to have one line for the victims, don't you think it might ask something like age, or relation to defendant, rather than race?

What a state.

[Burma Jones]

23. You bet it's real, Texas has a comprehensive web site

You can look at hundreds of these things at Texas' Death Row Home Page. It's the Texas Department of Criminal Justice's web site.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/deathrow.htm

[lastliberalintexas]

30. Unfortunately, that is one of the most consistent

statistics when talking about the US prison population over the last 60-70 years- they are all mostly high school dropouts. Terrifying, and such an easy thing to understand and target. But then, we don't really care to address the real underlying issues needed for crime prevention, do we?

And I don't mean to imply that Willingham was guilty, just that this stat holds true for our prison population across age, race and even gender lines.

[BadNews]

42. White guy wrongfully executed in Texas??

So much for the theory that capital punishment is based in racism.

[Burma Jones]

51. Less about race than class

But, of course, a single instance doesn't prove or disprove anything beyond that single instance, right?????

[CitySky]

70. actually, studies show that it's the race of the VICTIM

that matters the most. Kill a white person, you are statistically much more likely to get the death penalty than if you kill a black person. Still racist, just not what you expect.

[American liberal]

77. you're kidding, right?

Scroll down and look at the facts, bad news. Then maybe you can head on back to Freeperland and tell all your friends.

[davekriss]

13. Not a ripple of concern is likely...

"Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached."
--- Justice Scalia

Given that this giant of the Supreme Court believes "mere factual innocence" is no reason to stain the proceedings of our justice system, I suspect the powers that be mind not a bit that an innocent man was murdered by the State.

[amazona]

14. this is extremely upsetting

I had some neighbors who were convicted of a crime that never happened in the death of their child. THe lies told were amazing, such as the prosecutor told the media and the jury that the couple had never taken the child to the hospital. Of course they had taken the child to the hospital. My partner and another neighbor even went to the hospital to pick up the records themselves. It was horrible. They were still convicted, I know not why but I suspect it was because they were mildly retarded and couldn't effectively defend themselves. The public defender who saw them for all of ten minutes was useless. The system doesn't work.

A new prosecutor wanted to be on the news and be a grand-stander, so he invented an entire child abuse scenario that never occurred. To this day, when I hear other stories about parents supposedly starving their babies, I have no way to know which stories are true and which are inventions to get some self-serving prosecutor in the news.

And now this.

Can you imagine losing your kids in a fire and then being blamed for deliberately burning them alive?

These days, I pretty much assume that anything a prosecutor says is a self-serving publicity-seeking downright dirty lie. Bitter much, yeah, but I feel I have good reason.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bo]

15. Barbaric SoBs

Texas should become all catholic and join the vatican in the 8th c

[lastliberalintexas]

31. No thank you

Contraception is still legal here. For the time being anyway.

[Willy Lee]

18. more from that article

Scheck also pointed to the case of Claude Jones, executed in December 2000 for the murder of Allen Hilzendager, who was shot and killed in a 1989 liquor store robbery. In that case, Scheck said, counsel for then-Gov. George W. Bush prepared a recommendation for Bush that did not mention that Jones' request for a 30-day stay of execution was to allow DNA tests to be done on a hair found at the scene. Bush denied the request for a stay.

These fucks never cease to amaze me.

[edhopper]

19. When* was running in 2000

the NY Times did a story that seriously questioned at least 6 executions under the Chimp as Governor.
But of course we didn't fully understand his disregard for human life until Iraq.

[SnowGoose]

22. What sanction is there for the state as an entity

if it was shown that they killed (murdered, since it was intentional retribution and not self-defense) an innocent person?

A person gets thrown in prison or, as in this case, killed.

What happens to the entities who committed murder if the entity is a state instead of a person? It seems that at a minimum, the administrative branch of that government should have to resign.

[wallwriter]

24. The silence is deafening

Like everyone else, I want to know where the Christian right is. Too busy thratening to kill activist judges and homosexuals, I guess.

[katinmn]

41. Yes, where are they? I guess a poor guy with no family isn't

worth bothering about.

[Megahurtz]

25. I'm sure this has happened

SO MANY TIMES.:(

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. Apparently, if you are convicted of murder in Texas

and sentenced to death, even if you are found to be innocent later, there is a good chance that they will proceed with the execution anyway. It is an impossible nightmare world in Texas.

[splat@14]

27. Hasn't done much to stop people from killing each other down here.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. Actually, thanks to Scalia

and the justices who sided with him, that is the law of the United States, not just Texas. *Mere* factual innocence is not a bar to upholding a conviction. Revolting, isn't it?

[darkism]

28. Just one?

It's probably twenty times that.

[eagler]

35. This is certainly murder and the guilty should pay.

nt

[robbo2356]

36. Why Europe turned It`s back on the Death Penalty

This is just one of the reasons why Europe turned away from the Death Penalty .

[Mondon]

39. If this is proved,

It's the end of the DP in this country for most cases.

[tinanator]

66. really? why not the last several times?

this aint exactly a first.

[Eloriel]

40. Of course TX has executed the innocent

Statistics alone would support that notion.

[Mondon]

50. yes, but

people don't trust statistics. What they need is a clear and convincing case of monumental injustice with a human face on it. They need to see the man (most likely), his mother, his kids; they need to hear his pleas of innocence.

No one identifies with a statistical proof. People will identify with an executed innocent and/or his family.

[MisterP]

43. Bush: "I don't believe we've ever put a guilt--innocent person to death in

the state of Texas."

[Karma]

73. Bush is so close to God that those he puts to death must be guilty...

[donheld]

46. My fear is they've put many innocent to death but,

i don't think many Texas officials care.

[Doctor_J]

47. Being in IL, I can tell you that

statistically Smirk executed about 70 innocent people. Even allowing for the superior intelligence of Texans, it had to be at least 35. This is not news.

[NYC]

48. Aren't there 2 more scheduled for execution tonight?

In Texas.

[solinvictus]

55. Texas May Have Executed Innocent Man

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2027&ncid=2027&e=6&u=/chitribts/20050420/ts_chicagotrib/texasmayhaveputinnocentmantodeathpaneltold

"With Texas' criminal justice system the subject of intense scrutiny for a crime lab scandal and a series of wrongful convictions, a state Senate committee heard testimony Tuesday about the possibility that Texas had experienced the ultimate criminal justice nightmare: the execution of an innocent person."

[Cats Against Frist]

59. Just another bump on the road of the "Culture of Life," I guess n/t

[daleo]

61. Culture of life?

They meant "Culture of wife". A simple mistake that anyone could make.

[Zhade]

62. This is why I'm now anti-death penalty.

It's taken years to understand why it's wrong, but this illustrates it: putting criminals to death is not worth even one innocent person being killed.

[tinanator]

65. happens all the time, and always will

but its worth it.

[American liberal]

68. one of MANY reasons why

I oppose the death penalty! It makes me so mad! Oh, the hypocrisy!
In Illinois, no less than 5 men on death row have been exonerated in the last 5 years. And for anyone who uses the lame "eye for an eye" argument from the Old Testament, I say back to them what Gandhi said: "If everyone took an eye for an eye, the whole world would be blind."

I wrote a research paper in college on the death penalty. The statistics around its application are horrendous!!! NEVER has a rich, connected man been executed by the state in this country. A disproportionate number of poor blacks with inadequate defense are executed. Did you know that Miranda does not apply to death penalty appeals? There are no public defenders to appeal death penalty cases!!! Where's the justice in that?! It costs the state more to execute a human being (except for fast-track Texas in most states where the death penalty exists, it takes over 12 years from trial to death) than to provide Head Start, child care subsidies, food programs, and education and vocational training. Where is the justice?!

AND, the death penalty is NOT a deterrent! Studies have shown again and again that violent crime rates are LOWER in states that DON'T have the death penalty.

When I hear stuff like this, it just makes me see red!

*pshaw* to our judicial system! Where's the justice?!

[mopinko]

69. you are low balling

the number in illinois is like 15. sorry i don't know it, but it was more than half of those on death row.
i don't know if that includes madison hobley. i do not know his status at this moment, but i think he was given a new trial, and is likely to be released. hobley, as well as several others, gave confessions under torture while baby doc daley was states attorney.

[Spiffarino]

71. Willingham was white....odd man out.

Sorry it won't line up better, but it deserves a look.

Race Female Male Total

White 1 170 171

33.3% 33.8% 33.8%

Black 2 286 288

66.7% 56.9% 56.9%

Hispanic 0 46 46

0.0% 9.1% 9.1%

Other 0 1 1

0.0% 0.2% 0.2%

TOTAL 3 503 506

100.0% 100.0% 100.0%

[Karma]

72. The "culture of life" does not apply to Texas, only Florida...

[cascadiance]

79. Yup just like off-shore oil drilling is only bad in Florida, for Jeb!!!

Need to keep the oil drilling going up in ANWR and in California and other places to keep from being dependent on foreign oil sources! But in Florida!! The Bushers feel we need to use federal taxpayers' money to buy up off-shore oil drilling leases to protect the precious Florida coastline!

[Mr.Soul]

74. Wow

Think of all the poor minorities who have been put to death in TX alone in the past.

Wonder how many of those may have been innocent.

Holy shit, it is sad.

[tallahasseedem]

75. So much for the "culture of life"

It must be exaughsting talking out both sides of their mouth, er...ass?