Pastor Accused of Running Out Dems Quits

[wakeme2008]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Church-Politics.html

May 10, 2005
Pastor Accused of Running Out Dems Quits
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 7:32 p.m. ET

WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (AP) -- A Baptist preacher accused of running out nine congregants who refused to support President Bush resigned Tuesday.

''I am resigning with gratitude in my heart for all of you,'' the Rev. Chan Chandler said as he left a closed-door meeting at East Waynesville Baptist Church.

Congregants of the 100-member church in western North Carolina have said that Chandler endorsed Bush from the pulpit during last year's presidential campaign and said that anyone who planned to vote for Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry needed to ''repent or resign.''

The church members said he continued to preach about politics after Bush won re-election, culminating with a church gathering last week in which the nine members said they were ousted.


..That all there is at link

[Bunny]

1. Well, that's a good start.

Now this guy will go on to become a commentator at Faux News. :eyes:

[KansDem]

110. Yes, a "good start..."

Now the parishioners who applauded when the Democrats left need to leave too...

[Bunny]

112. I think they did. I think I read that many of the folks walked out

when the minister did, in a show of support for him. Good riddance, I would say!

[Career Prole]

2. He's resigning the pulpit to take that show on the road.

The Reich will make a millionaire out of him...just watch. :grr:

[Solly Mack]

7. exactly...he'll be a right wing media darling within days

[alfredo]

30. He will be portrayed as an oppressed Christian.

[saigon68]

47. He is SCUM AND A TOOL of the DEVIL

[Zorra]

70. So....in other words, he's the new White House chaplain? n/t

[saigon68]

88. Apparently soon to be ,someone's chaplain.

[alfredo]

105. Karl Rove?

[enigmatic]

3. Good

Though you know he's going to start his own little cult/congragation in short order..

[Trajan]

4. Im delighted ...

This is an informal precedent ... Let's see how Dobson, Falwell and Robertson react ....

[Megahurtz]

8. Lol!

I wish!

[Zenlitened]

5. Great. Another 'persecuted christian' to make the rounds on talk TV.

I'll bet anything there are fundies out there ready and willing to make him their new poster child.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. I hope the one Republican

who was ousted with the 8 Democrats by this preacher speaks out and stops any spin by the preacher.

That being said, I hope said preacher opens his heart and realizes that God's will and the GOP agenda are not necessarily the same....

[chomskysright]

130. THE SPIN is happening with the Baptist Press:

here is what they Mr. Owens, the Waynesville pastor's teacher said on Monday evening: I have included my comments: odd how when the pastor resigned on Tuesday evening at the church in Waynesville he stated that he needed to go back and 'finish my education.'

THEY HEARD ME.


May 9, 2005



Hello Baptist Press people and in particular, Reverend Waylan Owens:



I come from a God-fearing family, a long, long line of Baptists. My mother is the salt of the earth and a saint. Ditto for all the people in my background: simple folk.

That being said, I continue to be appalled, disappointed, and horrified at the bullying tactics that you cannot seem to resist. Now, it is expanded, in Mr. Owens article, to spinning the information which is simply an attempt to hem-haw and dance on the head of a pin.

I believe that many Americans would like for the Baptists to stop politicizing their churches. Concerned people, and there are many, are not targeting the Baptists. The Catholics, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, ALL need to stop this practice. You are not being singled out.

Here's your letter, Mr. Owens and I have rebutted it utilizing references from ews reports and law firms (SoftMoneyHardLaw) which support the efforts of 501c3 entities.

I am disappointed that you have resorted to hearsay, frankly, as per the below article. And I also find demeaning and offensive your condescending tone as per the below.



FIRST-PERSON: Is there more to the N.C. church story?
Monday, May 9, 2005
By Waylan Owens ( Baptist Press)


WAKE FOREST, N.C. (BP)--Chan Chandler is one of my students. You may have heard of him. He is the pastor of the East Waynesville Baptist Church in Waynesville, N.C. According to the Associated Press, Chan ousted all the members of the church who would not support George W. Bush in the 2004 presidential election.

Another, more descriptive, local article: Ousted worshippers stand their ground on Mother's Day : by Andre A. Rodriguez, STAFF WRITER , published: May 9, 2005 6:00 am
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001

Now, if that were true, that would be one sensational story. The real sensational story, though, has been the media’s frenzy over supposed evidence of the religious right’s imposition of a theocracy in America.

Undeniable evidence, across the board:

1: bill that would allow for pastors to say what they please w/o the church paying taxes for such partisan maneuvering:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-235

2. http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050424/1026847.asp: Frist critics decry appeal to religion By HILARY ROXE Associated Press 4/24/2005


What a place for right-wing Christian radicals to begin, in a church of about 100 people in Waynesville, N.C., a community of about 9,200. What a time to start: nine members “ousted” seven months after the election because they would not vote for President Bush.

But what is the real story? The media has refused to do the work necessary to find out the truth.

Real news, real journalists, really there: http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050508/ap_on_re_us/church_politics&printer=1

Dogging Chan, who understandably has refused to talk so far, the media has ignored all of the members of the church who actually did the voting. Why have we only heard from those voted out or from their supporters? Why are there no quotes from the members who said, "enough is enough?"

Why did Chan refuse to talk? He had plenty to say before:
"Sunday’s service “was the first sermon I’ve heard since October that politics wasn’t mentioned,” said Edith Nichols, a 29-year member of East Waynesville, who said she was voted out." http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001

Many facts have gone unreported or obscured in the media’s efforts to scandalize a young minister who has taken a stand for biblical morality and the life of a baby resting in her mother’s womb.

You would have to have read closely to know that at least one of the members voted out of fellowship of the church is a self-confessed Republican.

Yes, and what did SHE have to say about all of this? :
“Our memberships were terminated because we did not agree to have a political church,” said Thelma Lowe, the lone Republican voted out. “I did not vote for Kerry.”
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001

None of the media has seemed interested in the fact that perhaps a majority of the members doing the voting are registered Democrats.

So? Are you maligning the fact that they are Democrats?

Do you wonder how those nine had behaved during the seven months between Chan’s statement on John Kerry in October and last Monday evening? Have any reporters asked whether disunity and ongoing, uncharitable disruption in the church by this group of nine played any part in the final vote tally?

I assume you speculate that this 'disunity' had NOTHING to do with the pastor "sermons...with politics."

Does it tell us something that in spite of the Bible’s clear admonition not to take one another to court in 1 Corinthians 6, the nine’s first response was to go find a lawyer?

You admittedly lost me there. The pastor had an attorney; the people who were 'ousted' also had an attorney----both present in the service and who spoke to the press subsequent to church. If the Southern Baptists think it is un-Christian to have an attorney, then why did the pastor have one? :
"The pastor released a written statement through his attorney, John J. Pavey Jr.," http://www.citizen- times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001 Of note: I saw the attorney and so did the people of the church, speaking to the press subsequent to the service.

Is there more to this story, and is the media interested in finding it?

I keep waiting to read or to hear the fact that at the same time Chan called on members to repent for voting for John Kerry, he also called on members to repent if they had voted for two Republicans. I believe that October message was recorded.

When do you think the media will report that the core of Chan’s message was the very message of the Catholic Church and its new Pope who, before becoming Pope, wrote a paper calling for communion to be withheld from those who actively support abortion, presumably identifying Kerry clearly enough for even the media to understand it.

I grew up Baptist. Last time I checked, the Baptists never listened to anything the Catholics had to say and in fact talked about how they were 'going to hell'.

Now, Chan did not have the sophistication and public relations skills of a man about to become Pope. That may be one reason he has refused so far to open himself to the editing room of today’s media. But his message was the same. You cannot call yourself a member of a church that stands against abortion and then actively support abortion through your politics.

What a novel idea! Your life should match your religious profession. As we used to say when I was growing up, “You gotta walk the talk!” Imagine that, Christians living out with integrity what they claim to believe.

No one has a problem with Christians living their walk; indeed, I am grateful for people, like my mother, who pray for me. The problem occurs when they attempt to coerce others to replicate their 'religious profession.'

What is strange is that the media would not be sympathetic to Chan. After all, they are constantly reporting the lack of integrity among God’s people who claim to believe one way and then live another. Aren’t we all tired of the Christians, especially pastors and church leaders, who are caught in adultery and embezzlement and tax fraud each year? Wouldn’t we all like men who claim to preach the Word also call us to live the Word?

If Chan had taken my class before his October pronouncement about Kerry and the two Republicans, he would have heard my discouragement of naming names or political parties.

It sounds like you are saying that he was not educated 'enough' and that he is therefore 'guilty' of not functioning in a manner in keeping with a Baptist minister. And so why, Mr. Owens, was he allowed to administer to a congregation if he was not 'well enough' trained?

And while I am not certain that Chan violated any rules, I do teach my students to steer as wide a berth as possible in such matters, giving great respect to the law, even to IRS regulations.

That is undoubtedly important given the partisan nature of his preaching as associated with the Southern Baptist 501c3 status which precludes organizations from electioneering: http://www.moresoftmoneyhardlaw.com/articles/20050223.cfm;

However, since I believe that America should protect freedom of conscience and the right to speak freely in a religious pulpit, I am saddened that a young minister should be subject to such an inquisition for standing for biblical morality and the teachings of his church.

Then it appears that the Southern Baptists should pay taxes if they desire to act in this kind of partisan manner. : "The Internal Revenue Service exempts certain organizations from taxation including those organized and operated for religious purposes, provided that they do not engage in certain activities including involvement in “any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.” Valerie Thornton, a spokeswoman for the Internal Revenue Service, said she could not comment on the East Waynesville situation, but said “in general if a church engages in partisan politics, it could put their tax-exempt status in jeopardy.”
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050507/NEWS01/50506036/1001

That being said, we should not cower in fear before our government, but rather we should fear the Lord our God, and stand upon His word. Chan was not as diplomatic as he could have been, but his intended message is one we all should embrace, whatever our religious stripe. If you profess it, you should live it. If you believe it, your life should show it. Your religion should apply to, and impact, all areas of your life, or it is not a religion at all.

This is all fine if you are not engaged in electioneering, which appears to have been the case here.

Whether Jew or Muslim or Catholic or Protestant or whatever religion you hold -- even if you claim to be an atheist -- Chan’s exhortations should remind us all: Talk is cheap. Integrity demands that what we say and what we do should match.
--30--
Waylan Owens is vice president of planning and communications at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, NC. He also teaches a class in pastoral ministry.


And so, Mr. Owens, what kind of side-stepping is this?

Contrarily,

Christ said:
John 8:32

You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.

In my opinion, you are advocating mischevious phrasing and wording which leaves one scratching one's head, wondering, "now what did he mean by that?"

This was not an isolated incident in Waynesville. I witnessed it during my childhood, in the 1960's. Another pastor at another Baptist church in Waynesville testified that many of the local pastors had been 'preaching' to their flock to vote for Bush: "Pastor Robert Prince III of First Baptist Church of Waynesville said he was appalled to hear about the claims but noticed a lot of Southern Baptist ministers endorsing President Bush in November’s election.", Asheville Citizen-Times

Many, many people would testify to the politicization in which you have engaged.

My goodness, was not that big charade in Nashville with Senator Frist an attempt to maximize your

Here is yet another person talking about such, just a passing conversation on www.democraticunderground.com:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3626619

"My brother-in-law, before he passed, was a SO. Baptist music minister. He came right out and told me that Democrats aren't welcomed in his church.
I replied that I would want nothing to do with a church that doesn't teach Jesus' message. He and his kind can roll around in the mud while the rest of us continue to treat others with love and compassion the way Jesus did.


Overall, the fundamentalists, inclusive of yourselves as related to what you 'officially' state, are perceived as hatefully, maliciously attempting to destroy this democracy. Do you believe Christ would be pleased with that?

Please stop bullying us, manipulating us, telling half-truths, and in general, politicizing the churches. We wish to worship there. You wish to create some kind of beast that is of mamon, not of God.

Otherwise, the Southern Baptists should pay your taxes, Mr. Owens.

PRINT THIS, if you dare, Baptist Press.

Sincerely,

[Maat]

25. And here, Zenlitened, is something to substantiate your guess ..

The Baptist Press's "exclusive" interview with Rev. Chan Chandler

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=20766

[Zenlitened]

34. Oy.

Didn't take 'em long to churn out a "makeover" piece. :puke:

[davidinalameda]

43. I hope he's not to dizzy

from spinning the story

what a pathetic excuse for a human being

[LisaM]

49. What a laugh that piece is

Nice how he says any tapes that show what happened must have been doctored. Uh huh.

[hobbit709]

99. Isn't there a commandment

about bearing false witness?

[calimary]

127. Holy smokes! The Grand High Wizard of Doublespeak, he is.

Says he didn't make any endorsements and then talks about making "negative endorsements." So it's never about politics. You can sermonize for months, CLEARLY pushing one side of a POLITICAL argument about POLITICAL issues and POLITICAL figures, and somehow still view that as non-political.

Good GAWD. Why don't they just cut to the chase and hire this guy into the republi-CON National Committee's Propaganda Management and Newspeak Division? I mean, he's probably available...

[chomskysright]

131. here's my letter to baptist press using that letter:

May 12, 2005

RE: your interview with Chan Chandler, former pastor of East Waynesville Baptist Church

Hello:

I have some comments as associated with your interview with resigned Pastor Chan Chandler. I was in church there on Sunday morning, May 8 as well as the Tuesday evening meeting, May 10, when he resigned. My comments are in bold script. This is the interview which is on the Baptist Press.


N.C. pastor's primary desire is peace & unity for congregation
May 10, 2005
By Norm Miller
WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (BP)--After several days of avoiding media contact, Chan Chandler granted an exclusive interview to Baptist Press Tuesday afternoon, May 10.

Chandler and the church where he is pastor -- East Waynesville Baptist Church, Waynesville, N.C. -- have drawn considerable media attention in recent days as nine members publicly alleged Chandler had them ousted from church membership based on their choice of political parties and candidates.

"I don't know how these folks voted," Chandler said. "And I never endorsed any candidate."

It is well documented in the media, as associated with direct questioning of the members of the church, that Pastor Chandler 'every Sunday' politicized his sermons to the point that the older members, who originally invited him to be their pastor, walked out after the meet and greet. They did not want politics; they wanted to worship the Lord.

Chandler said he did cite from the church pulpit what he believes are the "unbiblical values" of some political hopefuls. "But those were negative endorsements -- never a positive endorsement" of any candidate, he said, whether Republican, Democrat or Independent.

This is a ridiculous statement. When there are basically 2 parties, the 'unendorsement' of one is a direct endorsement of the other.

Chandler admits citing Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's views on abortion and homosexuality in one sermon, "and I also mentioned two Republicans' names" whose views he says are out of step with the Bible. "But that's not getting out," he said.

Disgruntled members cite months of sermons replete with sermonic mandates to vote along party lines, but Chandler said his focus has always been issue-oriented and not based on political preferences or affiliation.

This is a ridiculous statement also. Anti-abortion is clearly identified with the Republican party; anti-homsexuality is clearly identified with the Republican party.

Chandler says to his recollection he has not mentioned politics in any sermon since last fall.

Then it appears that he is a liar and not a man of God OR the several dozen older members who kept asking him to 'please leave' are liars. Which is it? Did not the Baptists care enough about this church to wonder what was taking place? Your 'hands off' position is really not very helpful when it comes to situations like this, IMO. Or perhaps, the Baptists simply need to be taxed: this would take care of the entire matter. You would pay your taxes, say what you like, and this pretending to be a church could then stop.

"The church has the tapes," he said, adding that, if such a tape does reveal he made an overt political endorsement, then such a tape "would have been doctored" or the endorsement was "completely unintentional."

"This never has been about politics," he said. "It's always been about whether the Bible applies to the entire life of a Christian." He explained that some Southern Baptists have held for decades the belief that religion and politics should never mix. But for Chandler, Christians entering a voting booth have a much weightier spiritual responsibility than they do a political one.

"Sometimes it's like choosing the lesser of two evils," he said. "But in that case, I see all evil and I don't vote for either candidate." Chandler said he has counseled members to write in some other candidate's name they could feel right about when faced with the proverbial lesser of two evils choice.

As Baptist Press tried to clarify whether the nine people were in fact voted out of the church, Chandler said they initially left voluntarily. Since some of those who willingly forfeited their memberships were trustees of the church, other members thought it prudent to make their actions official.

The members of the church who I was sitting with two evenings ago, as the pastor resigned, stated to me that Chandler had told the older members that he 'didn't need any deacons' and as he stacked the membership with newer members, of his choosing----the cuckoo bird members, as associated with the behavior of the cuckoo that kicks out the birds in the nest, their own nest, Monday a week ago they took a vote and voted out the older deacons.

Chandler said the church had undergone several months of disharmony, some of which he speculates was the result of his preaching about Christians' responsibility to be reflective of the Bible in the way that they vote.

Per the older members with whom I spoke on Tuesday evening, May 10, the disharmony began last fall as Chandler increasingly politicized his sermons.

And more hesitatingly, he also speculated that, since the church had baptized almost 30 people and was growing under his leadership, then those who had been in church leadership positions for years may have felt threatened.

Whatever the reasons, Chandler said most church members believed the unrest needed to be resolved. That's why on May 2 the deacons called for a May 3 deacons' meeting. Chandler broadened the meeting when he decided Sunday night, May 2, to open it up to the entire church, even those who were waiting to be baptized and join the church as new members.

And in violating the church by-laws which require a two week notice, he indicated just how determined he was to kick out the older members---to make it so uncomfortable that they would not want to stay----though it was their church----though they had nurtured it over decades.

He also laid the ground rules, telling those who were unhappy with him as pastor that if they could garner a simple majority against him, he'd leave, despite the bylaws provision that such a vote to terminate the pastor requires a two-thirds vote margin.

Chandler also said that if those who were dissatisfied with him couldn't garner a simple majority, then they should leave.

Again, he had stacked the membership of the church. If you had been in church this past Sunday and Tuesday and for about the past 6 months, you would have noticed that there were 2 tiers of members: those bought in by Chandler and the older members-----LONG devoted to the Souther Baptists. I find it deplorable that you would simply dump them overboard, frankly.

Three times he explained this to the Sunday night crowd, and three times, all commonly consented to abide by the provisions.

Some have alleged after the fact that what happened the next night, Monday, May 3, was a violation of the church bylaws.

Chandler explains: "When I opened the deacons' meeting to anyone who wanted to attend, I noted the bylaws discrepancy and asked if that bothered anyone." Seeing and hearing no opposition "and in fact, having agreement three successive times" the meeting went on as planned with no complaint about a bylaws breach.

Sorry, this does not suffice. You do indeed need to complete your education, Mr. Chandler---the reason you listed on Tuesday evening as the reason for resigning.

All of the "he-said-she-said" stuff is really secondary to Chandler. What he's desired all along, he says, "is unity and peace for the church."

Citing verses from 1 Corinthians 6, which he says require the church to keep its disagreements out of the public eye, Chandler is deeply grieved that the rest of the world is now privy to some of the church's behavior. He says he regrets that not for himself, but for those who look to the church for spiritual leadership and guidance.

Member of the Waynesville community began complaining to City Council people some time ago about what was taking place in this church. YOU---the NC Baptists---
ignored their plight when in my opinion, you should have been wondering what in the world was going on re: older members feeling 'locked out'---booted out----of their own nest.

"I believe the application of the Bible needs to be to every single area of our lives," Chandler said, and that would include how church members conduct themselves both within and without the church walls.


cc: www.democraticunderground.com

Pastoral Ministries Team Leader/Consultant
[e-mail]
919-467-5100 x454
Jo Ann Walton
Pastoral Ministries Team Secretary
[e-mail]
919-467-5100 x453

[ET Awful]

6. I thought maybe he'd signed on with Fred Phelps to do a tour of the

US.

:)

[left is right]

94. how long do you think it will be

before he and his cult followers are protesting at the funerals of Democrats with signs reading, "God hates democraps."

[coloradodem2005]

9. Good, but I still want him taken down even more.

[sarcasmo]

10. Should we put Dem spies into other churches to tape sermons?

This will not stop the rest of them from doing the same thing, although it is a start.

[democracyindanger]

18. Um, no.

[fudge stripe cookays]

51. Why not?

Silence only makes them stronger.

The more we expose them, the more we show their hypocrisy for what it is.

FSC

[democracyindanger]

54. "Democratic spies uncovered in church congregation"

That's what the headlines will be.

[fudge stripe cookays]

57. "Democratic Website Uncovers Preacher Kicking Out Congregants"

What did we just do? We accomplished something. The asshole resigned.

I have absolutely no qualms about us doing this. We get negative press no matter what we do. We might as well start fighting fire with fire.

Right now, we look like wimps. We shouldn't take this sitting down. No one should.

FSC

[democracyindanger]

60. And that was accomplished without "spies"

If that's a reference to the recordings of the jerkoff preacher, those were all made by the church.

You're right, we shouldn't take this sitting down. But "spies"? In a church? No thanks.

[fudge stripe cookays]

61. Spies is a harsh word.

Simply join a church if you don't belong to one already. If you see stuff that bothers you and implicitly crosses the line, tell people about it.

I don't see what's so horrible about making these people accountable for their actions.

FSC

[democracyindanger]

68. Exactly.

What the post I originally responded to suggested was sending people in with tape recorders for the sole purpose of trying to catch them.

There's nothing wrong with holding them accountable. How we do it matters.

[ldf]

63. what "spies"?

i'm sure there are plenty of democrats of faith that are very upset with the way their religion has been hijacked. it is up to them to do it.

THEY need to take back their religion, just like the moderate muslims need to take back THEIR religion.

[sendero]

72. You....

.... are 100% correct.

Trying to worry about the diseased 4th estate is a loser's game.

Onward.

[BeHereNow]

11. Anyone have the phone number?

As a Christian, it is my duty to
lead him to a certain passage of scripture-
SINCERELY-
BHN

[bunkerbuster1]

12. Door, ass, you know the drill.

"Gratitude in my heart," my ass, you evil, theocratic prick.

[Az_lefty]

13. Today was their closed door business meeting..

sounds like they threw him out. Good! Let that be an example to the other fundie nuts out there.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. which means the congregation came to their senses

about the preacher and his extremism.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. My first thought was he was asked to leave.

I'm glad either way, this might serve as a warning to other "activist" preachers.

edit: typo

[kikiek]

44. I'm with you. I would think they could lose their tax exempt status if he

stays there.

[struggle4progress]

67. Yep. They had to shut down the controversy really fast. eom

[Jawja]

98. I agree, but it is more

than just losing tax exempt status. It's about folks who have been members of that church for 25 and 30 years coming together to work out the great divide that this asshole caused and making the decision that THEY don't go - HE goes.

It was just a matter of time. After all, they hire him and I just betcha that they had a vote and more members wanted him gone than wanted him to stay.

[chomskysright]

132. there is no indication he was asked to leave as per Baptist Press letter

above. and then my comments to it.

[KittyWampus]

15. Will There Be A Made For TV Movie About This Schmuck?

[AspenRose]

16. HALLELUJAH!!!!!

eom

[Kerrytravelers]

20. Bet God is smiling from Heaven. Would you want a nutcase representing you?

[ktowntennesseedem]

21. Glad to see he apparantly didn't try to take half the church with him,

though that may happen yet. I'm sure he'll go off and start up his own little cultish parish somewhere, maybe in the same general area. Those at East Waynesboro who sided with him (recent additions to the church, according to a number of sources) are likely to follow him to his new church. The damage has already been done at the former church, but hopefully his departure will at least allow the healing process to begin. For those still in the church, I hope this opens their eyes, and I wish them luck in the coming weeks and months.

[chomskysright]

133. half the church did go with him : read cuckoo coup here:

Waynesville, NC pastor resigns: the Tale of the Cuckoo Coup

Well, I was just in church at East Waynesville Baptist for the 'meeting' ...sitting with the older people, awaiting the coming in of the pastor, Chan Chandler, from the back of the church to deliver...well, what?

The news that he was resigning.

Its a weird tale and although I'm familiar, somewhat with these kinds of cloak and dagger activities as not terribly rare amongst Baptist church members , this tale has special meaning for me related to a keen interest of mine: apathy: why are people apathetic; what seats it; what cranks it.

The pastor, Chan Chandler, has been there for approx 2 years. The older members, who originally invited him and who essentially established the church and maintained its growth for decades, didn't like that he had turned all of his sermonizing into a political diatribe. They asked him to stop it; eventually, since last October, after the meet and greet, they would just get up and leave because they knew what was next: the politically based sermons.

The 'older' deacons tried to 'escort him to the door'; he essentially indicated that, "I don't need no stinkin'deacons to function 'round here."

Oddly, but as re: his cuckoo coup ('coocoocachoo: I am the Eggman')attempt, and over the past 8 mos or so, he has created another population of members within the church, essentially acting as does the cuckoo bird: pushing the original birds' eggs out of the nest. This coup, which the older members recognized but were unable to stop, continued until it eventually built to the point that Monday a week ago, the swelling numbers of 'new' members were able to vote out the 'old' deacons---the crew of the church, the (always) guys at the helm. The members who were clapping as the 'old' deacons were voted out and asked to physically leave the premises were the new usurper members : subscribers to the cuckoo coup.

Now, to physically view the two sets of people is to underline yet more vividly the matter: the older members dress as do older rural heart- of-America people: neatly; hair trimmed and coifed; gentlemen wearing clean clothes; sensible pumps for the ladies. Older, established but not wealthy, friendly folks.

The cuckoo bird members were strikingly less orderly in their appearance but they acted like they ran the place. And as I think back over my biology undergraduate degree, wasn't the cuckoo actually a rather dull, unglamorous, bird?

Homely birds do have to resort to strategies in keeing with their assets, perhaps. When I was in church this past Sunday, it was ONLY the new members who were singing in the choir, leading us all in the tiresome 4 verses of 'How Great Thou Art' (my, the group narcissism is killing me now as I think about it).

Interestingly, the two sets of people sat in different parts of this small church which, by the way, had only approx 100 members, not several hundred as a news source stated. The older people, indeed, sat at the 'back of the bus.' One of my pew-buddies, an older lady, explained to me that this is where 'we always sat.' I had to wonder why they were always at the back of the bus. Did they start when the new pastor came? Did they do it because they liked to socialize some of the time (though I didn't notice any such when I was in church on Sunday). Hell: maybe it was safer in the back of the bus.

The cuckoos are not very social birds, best I recall. How can someone be sociable when you're so persistently trying to make homeless another bird?

So, this evening, as the older people and I presumed that the 'other church' was in the back plotting to yet undo them some more, the pastor, his wife, and the 'new' members all marched out and sat down. The pastor lead a prayer (he seems fixated on things associated with abortion issues), then pretty briefly explained that he felt he needed to resign in order to continue his education.

Surely this doesn't have ANYTHING to do with my comment to the Baptist Press last night which was directed to Reverend Owens, who apparently teaches at the Southern Theological Seminary (in Nashville, TN, the city that was the setting for Frist's Follies at the mega Baptist church two Sundays ago and home of the Baptist Press). Owens is one of Chan Chandler's teachers there. On their website last evening Owens glibly meandered on about 'why is there such a fuss in ha, ha, this little town of Waynesville, fewer than 10,000 people' (the tempest in a teapot strategy). Owens remarked in that posting,"If Chan had taken my class before his October pronouncement about Kerry and the two Republicans, he would have heard my discouragement of naming names or political parties." to which I relied: "It sounds like you are saying that he was not educated 'enough' and that he is therefore 'guilty' of not functioning in a manner in keeping with a Baptist minister. And so why, Mr. Owens, was he allowed to administer to a congregation if he was not 'well enough' trained?"

After resigning, that home-town boy walked out with his wife in tow. Then all the 'new' members walked out, with two of them calling the older members 'liars' and another gave reference to some verse in Chapter 8 of Psalms. It felt like we were getting the finger, frankly.

Then an older gentleman, righteous in his posture and fervent with his prayer, and someone that the older lady sitting next to me indicated: "I was surprised when he went over to their side", prayed for about what felt like ten minutes. He was teary; he prayed that we all remembered that this was the Lord's house and not anyone's there. I was simultaneously struck by his heartfulness and noted the jibes re: 'who's house is this anyway?'

My bench companions, as I turned and acquainted myself with them--- (they all had registered and were appreciative, apparently, of my homemade sign from this past Sunday which queried: "Who Would Jesus Exclude?" This evening, as the older members waiting patiently for the raucous cuckoos, one woman, in a quietly exasperated voice, asked why the new members didn't, 'go get their own church...we worked long and hard for this church.'

WELL: the older people sat quietly for a few moments and then one of them got up and started playing the piano in a quite lovely fashion after he was asked to do so by another one of the older members.

So, I asked the lady behind me what she thought they had lost and she stated, "some integrity." They begin their search for a new pastor soon.


THE BULLYING STRATEGY OF THE AMERICAN RIGHT-WING CUCKOOS

From the narcissistic hymn choice ("How Great Thou Art": people give themselves away so easily; they can hardly help it) this past Sunday to the clucking, scratching, biting, and kicking of the persistent cuckoos---determined to not stop until the well-established were made homeless----I submit that this event is a panypticon of what is taking place in America now.

If we could stand at the top of this spiral structure which is our democracy, without being seen, and look down on this mean-spirited con job, we'd see some very morally rag-tag people trying to unseat our American endeavor which is, as Lewis Lapham, editor, of Harper's magazine said years ago: "Democracy is an attempt to organize the freedom of the mind against the tyranny of force, money, and superstition."

As hard as many of us have worked over the past 6 months, I am quite confident that if we keep showing the cuckoos up, with all of our nests, we will succeed in ousting these imposters.

[genieroze]

22. Nah, nah, nah, nah, Nah, nah, nah, nah, hey, hey, hey, GOODBYE!

[leesa]

23. Thrown out, eh? I hope they also throw out the others who voted out

their fellow Christians.

[tuvor]

24. Now, if the MSM would only cover a lying president in the same way...

...who knows what could happen?

[UCLA Dem]

26. Good!!

[SoCalDem]

27. Good... now his minions can follow him to his garage for services

and the others can have their church back:)

[xchrom]

28. what? he got a tv deal?

[Fleshdancer]

29. Great. He'll probably end up working for Karl Rove

you know the neocons won't let this idiot fall.

[Pithy Cherub]

31. This pastor can now worship his favorite graven image

in the comfort of his own *idol-strewn home. How about an apology? :eyes:

[sarcasmo]

32. Don't let the door hit you in the ASS on the way out.

[BillZBubb]

33. Didn't a majority of the "Christians" agree with him to throw out Dems?

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought the congregation agreed with the preacher on this?

If so, who would want to be a part of that group anyway?

[Zenlitened]

35. Shhhhhhhh. You're not supposed to remember that part.

:eyes:

[democracyindanger]

36. The people who cheered

according to first hand reports, were young adults and teens that the pastor had been recruiting into the church. He'd been trying to take it over for quite a while, apparently.

[knitter4democracy]

101. He was trying to build a mega-church.

That's how you're supposed to do it: build up the youth group and go for young adults to build up membership. Train them in how you want things to be, and slowly push the older, more experienced element to the sidelines by replacing them in positions of leadership with the younger element. Now, that happens in all human groups, but if the pastor's been reading up on his mega-church stuff, he knows that he has a better chance of controlling the younger adults than the older ones who've seen more.

He was only doing what they're all doing now. The church my mom joined when I was ten, my church from growing up, has had the exact same thing happen to it. All we can do now is shake our heads, as we saw it coming years ago.

[mitchum]

118. You are absolutely right

[susu369]

37. Well, I hope he is sincere when he says

"with gratitude in my heart for all of you."

He was such a condescending jerk just this past Sunday:
Chandler noted their presence in his welcome to the congregation, saying, "I'm glad to see you all here. ... We are here today to worship the Lord. I hope this is what you are here for,"

[jazzjunkysue]

38. See- Christianity really is under attack from the Libruls.

Next thing you know, we'll outlaw polygamy and child battering, too.

[dArKeR]

39. I swear he'll make a comeback because the GOP will take care of him, they

just talked to him and said, "We don't need this now but we'll take care of you in a few years." North, Poindexter, Abrams... You'll see I'm right when we're all in Heaven!

[Inland]

40. Bad news---Bush not resigning yet. nt

[yorkiemommie1]

41. i bet he'll be on TBN

too. with the pink-haired crying lady preacher.

[DanCa]

42. Not good enough

For the hurt and shame he put the dems thru not good enough.

[libnnc]

45. no appology?

I didn't expect one. But at least they have their church back.



libnnc
www.folkmoot.com

[Roland99]

46. Where's my violin?

[rocktivity]

69. Here you go, Roland

:nopity:
rocknation

[Roland99]

75. heh heh heh

I'd forgotten about that!

[Virginian]

48. Is his resignation so they don't have to pay taxes? n/t

[reality based]

50. He was held accountable

That's one.

[Bake]

52. Probably already has a deal with Dobson or Perkins.

He'll be their new star ...

Bake

[reprehensor]

53. Amen!

Hit the road, asshole.

[Ysolde]

55. Thank goodness!

I still feel for the Dems there.

And, I hate the fact that he'll be spouting his hate somewhere else. But, at least there was a little bit of justice served.

[hatrack]

56. "Ah have seeuned agaainst YEWWWWWWWWW!"

Oh, sorry, wrong preacher. :evilgrin:

[Arkana]

58. Good

That fucker had NO right, I repeat, NO FUCKING RIGHT to do what he did. It was unconstitutional, in addition to being just plain wrong. The problem is, of course, is that he will now take his idiot show on the road.

[IndianaGreen]

59. Rev Chandler can always get a job with Paul and Jan Crouch

He can get his own show on the Trinity Broadcasting Network telling his TV audiences that Jesus wants Bush to have a third term as President.

[GregW]

62. Good! Now don't forget to revoke their 501c(3) status

It is after all, the only reason he is 'resigning'.

[tom_paine]

64. A small victory for truth and justic and Old America is a reason to hope

But we are still adrift in Totalitarian Corruption with no end in sight.

That has not changed.

[Robworld]

65. Isn't there a saying of Politics and religion shouldn't mix

Of course we know thats not true in Bush country.

http://www.dumdumgoestothecircus.com

[rocktivity]

66. AAAAALLL-LE-LU-IA! ALLELUIA! ALLELUIA!

Hasta la vista, rev--see you on the public access channels!

:bounce:
rocknation

[undeterred]

71. This is good news, as long as he doesn't end up being a martyr

-persecution of such holy men being what it is these days :sarcasm:

[Rose Siding]

73. Hallelujah

May that church heal and recognize these events as the fruit of intolerance.

[solinvictus]

74. He'll be the new Roy Moore...

Just watch...

[paineinthearse]

76. The only church that will hire this scumbag is

Westboro.

Sayonara, asshole!

[DulceDecorum]

77. Pastor Accused of Running Out Dems Quits

Wednesday May 11, 2005 4:01 AM GMT
WAYNESVILLE, N.C. (AP) - A Baptist preacher accused of running out nine congregants who disagreed with his Republican politics resigned Tuesday, two days after calling the issue ``a great misunderstanding.''

Speaking from the pulpit during a meeting at East Waynesville Baptist Church, the Rev. Chan Chandler told church members that it would ``cause more hurt for me and my family'' if he stayed.
<snip>

At Sunday's service, the 33-year-old Chandler said the flap over the church members' dismissal was ``a great misunderstanding'' and he tried to welcome them back.

``No one has ever been voted from the membership of this church due to an individual's support or lack of support for a political party or candidate,'' he said in a statement.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4997147,00.html

Ooops.
Dupe.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1460958

[Va Lefty]

78. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, asshole!!

[Hand]

79. It's been said before and will be said again. However...

Na na NA na, Na na NA-AH na, Hey He-ey,

GOO-OOD BYE!

So long, asshat. And please DO let the door smack you in the ass on the way out--you've earned it!

Oh, and take this with you...

:evilgrin: :rofl:

[NEOBuckeye]

81. I'm still holding mine back for Bush & Cheney

I still think these guys are going to face the music sooner or later.

[DulceDecorum]

80. "The only thing I wanna say is

that everything that's been in the press is a lie," said Misty Turner. "I have never bowed down to Chan. I've only bowed down to the Lord."

Asked if she would remain a member of East Waynesville, she said, "I'm not going to serve with the ungodly."

Chandler's resignation came a day after a national group that lobbies for church-state separation urged the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the tax-exempt status of the East Waynesville Baptist Church.

IRS rules bar clear-cut politicking by tax-exempt groups. Last October, days before Bush won a second term, the IRS said it was investigating about 60 charities and other tax-exempt groups -- about a third of them churches -- for potentially breaking rules that bar them from participating in political activity.

The outcome of those investigations is not known. The IRS is barred from naming the organizations it investigates or announcing case results.
http://www.foxreno.com/news/4474216/detail.html

[neverforget]

82. He's 33 and a Bush supporter. Why isn't he in the Army?

[left is right]

95. I think this has to be said over and over again to * supporters

Why aren't you/your children enlisting? Churches that proudly proclaim * as the godly pResident should preach every Sunday that it is a Christian's duty to enlist

[kineneb]

83. Time to render unto Cesear/IRS

for politics from the pulpit. Bad boy, no cookies.

[neverforget]

84. He's 33 and a Bush supporter. Why isn't he in the Army?

Bush needs bodies so why doesn't this loyal dumbass sign up?

[Toucano]

87. Right on!

No that he's resigned his "calling" he has no excuse.

[Piperay]

89. WOW only 33!!!

I saw him on the news and I thought he was at least 20-30 years older than that.:eyes: I guess that kind of lifestyle really ages a person.x(

[Julius Civitatus]

113. Here's his mug. He looks very young.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/img.news.yahoo.com/util/anysize/360,http%3A%2F%2Fus.news2.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fp%2Fap%2F20050511%2Fcapt.ncam60105110141.church_politics_ncam601.jpg

[neverforget]

129. He looks fit so why isn't he in the Army?

:shrug:

[w4rma]

85. Accused?!? Since when is "accused" the proper word when he literally

kicks them out of the church membership? To my knowledge, there is no disagreement that he "ran Dems out". The pastor, himself, said he did.

So now the AP twists the story so that, somehow, Democrats are at fault for causing this 'poor', 'victimized' pastor to quit. :puke: on the Associated Press.

[AgadorSparticus]

86. I HOPE the guy goes on tour. There is nothing like showcasing your

bullshit. Just like that Coulter woman. All they will be able to do is whip up their base into an already foaming at the mouth state AND alienate the middle roaders. works for me.

[BR_Parkway]

90. East Waynesville pastor resigns in wake of controversy

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050511/NEWS01/50510024/1001

published: May 11, 2005 6:00 am
WAYNESVILLE — Pastor Chan Chandler submitted his resignation to the members of East Waynesville Baptist Church on Tuesday, a move some said was the only way to resolve current tensions at the church.

At a meeting at the church, Chandler got up and led those in attendance in prayer, read his resignation and then left the meeting with his wife, Melody, without making any comments to the assembled media, a church member said.

<snip> (The Freeper Theopublican response)

“It’s really sad that all this happened,” a teary-eyed Misty Tucker said before getting in her car. Tucker said she would no longer attend East Waynesville Baptist Church. “I’m not going to serve where there are so many ungodly people.”

<snip>(The true Christian response)

The remaining congregants also said they harbored no ill will for Chandler and his family and wished them all the best. Chandler’s lawyer said the 33-year-old minister had some opportunities available to him, though he didn’t not specify. He also said Chandler would continue working on his master’s degree through Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest. Anyone want to bet these opportunities will be funded by some of the names we always see?

[jmcon007]

91. he'll do well.....

He'll hit the 700 Club circuit spreading the word about evil democrats and we know the neonuts pay good money for venom.
By the way, in this case we know what Jesus would do.
Unlike douchebag Chandler, Jesus actually separated Himself from the super-spirituals of His day and mingled with "the publicans ands sinners".
Oh well, I'm sure they've got an answer of some kind.

[Az_lefty]

103. He appears to have been out to make a name for himself...

and it looks like he accomplished that. I'm sure the fundie elders are pleased, even though they don't have the guts to come out and support the guy in public. Basically, a bunch of lying cowards.

[Betty]

134. speaking of his name...

what the hell kind of name is Chan Chandler?

[wookie294]

92. LOL

Watching these conservative psychos is hilarious. Gotta luv it. LMFAO!

[bklyncowgirl]

93. Good. This was a win for the good guys.

I haven't heard too many people defending this Pastor Chandler. He stepped over the line of what most reasonable people, even diehard Republicans, believe should be the seperation of Pulpit and Politics and in the process gave the Fundamentalists a black eye.

Good work, Pastor, and good work to everyone on DU who pushed this story.

[shayes51]

96. Probably been promised an appointment to the bench.

[symbolman]

97. I think he needs to be sent to the front lines

in Iraq immediately to "save" our boys over there.. with the power of his mightly prayer and godliness he could stop bullets before they reach our troops by creating a god force field of some sort, something us lowly Democrats and heathens can't begin to understand..

He's probably going to be the next Pope when the new Nazi kicks in a few years.. "We've Decided in the interest of Tolerance to make a Baptist Preacher filled with Hate the new Pope.."

Asshole. He should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.. sometimes things really worked well in the good old days :)

[GOPBasher]

100. I second that.

He supports Bush so much, why doesn't he go fight Bush's war? :shrug:

[Mad_Dem_X]

102. kick

[Nothing Without Hope]

104. a MUST READ eyewitness account and wonderful post by a DUer

Which I hope is published somewhere for a lot more people to read:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1775454
Thread title: "Waynesville, NC pastor resigns: the Tale of the Cuckoo Coup"

This is truly excellent, so much better and truer than what was in the corporate press.

[paineinthearse]

106. AP 5/11 update: Church Split in Dispute Over Bush

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/11/national/11baptist.html

May 11, 2005

Church Split in Dispute Over Bush
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

WAYNESVILLE, N.C., May 10 (AP) - A Baptist preacher who was accused of forcing nine members to leave his church because they refused to support President Bush said on Tuesday that he was stepping down. "For me to remain now would only cause more hurt for me and my family," the preacher, the Rev. Chan Chandler, said as he left a meeting at East Waynesville Baptist Church. Congregants of the 100-member church have said that Mr. Chandler endorsed Mr. Bush from the pulpit during last year's presidential campaign and said that anyone who planned to vote for the Democratic nominee, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, needed to "repent or resign."

The church members said that he continued to preach about politics after Mr. Bush won re-election, culminating in a church gathering last week in which the nine members said they were ousted. Speaking from the pulpit on Tuesday night, Mr. Chandler, 33, said that the dispute was rooted in his strong feelings about abortion. He then left with his wife and drove away from the church escorted by the police. A few moments later, about 40 of his supporters, many in tears, came out while other church members remained inside. "I don't believe he preached politics," said Rhonda Trantham, one of Mr. Chandler's supporters. "I don't believe anyone should tell a preacher not to preach what's in the Bible."

Mr. Chandler's lawyer, John J. Pavey Jr., said his client had not apologized for anything he said and would continue to speak out against abortion. He said the dispute had nothing to do with politics. Mr. Chandler's resignation, at a meeting open only to members of the congregation, came a day after a national group that lobbies for church-state separation urged the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the tax-exempt status of the church.

I.R.S. rules bar clear-cut politicking by tax-exempt groups. In October, days before Mr. Bush won a second term, the agency said it was investigating roughly 60 charities and other tax-exempt groups - about a third of them churches - for potentially breaking rules that bar them from political activity. The outcome of those investigations is not known; the I.R.S. is prohibited from naming the groups it investigates or announcing results.

[Democracy White]

107. All I gotta say is...

"Hit the road Jack, and don't you come back no more, no more, no more, no more, no more!"

Gotta love that song.

Dee

[triguy46]

108. A Baptist church split? What else is news

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/050511b.asp
this link tells of his resignationa and 40 members leaving with him.

If you want to know why there are so many Baptist churches, it is not because of phenomenal growth. Rather, they are experts at infighting and splitting, with one group going off with an embattled pastor to start a new church. The pie aint any bigger, its just getting sliced thinner.

We have 5 southern baptist churches in our town of 40,000 and 3 are the results of splits.

[lovuian]

109. Finally these people are getting kicked out!!!

they just don't know when to stop!!!

[paineinthearse]

111. Photo of ousted parishioners

http://us.news3.yimg.com/img.news.yahoo.com/util/anysize/380,http%3A%2F%2Fus.news2.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fp%2Fap%2F20050511%2Fcapt.ncam60805110215.church_politics_ncam608.jpg

Marlene Casey, left, gives Frank Lowe, left, a hug as Delores Rash, right, looks on during a meeting at the East Waynesville Baptist Church Tuesday, May 10, 2005, in Waynesville, N.C., after the Rev. Chan Chandler's resignation. Chandler, 33, has come under fire after members of his church claim he led a charge to kick them out of the congregation because they refused to support President Bush. Lowe was one of the members ousted. (AP Photo/Alan Marler)

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joey Liberal]

115. Give him a Mule

Mules seem to have a calming influence on the republicans. LOL. Send him to a farm in Georgia!

[knitter4democracy]

128. Just don't give him forty acres.

Sorry, but the mule jokes always make me think of that. I know, it's bad.

[rpannier]

116. HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good f**king riddance. Wonder where he'll turn up next?

[mitchum]

117. Hit the trail, Grifter!

[Moderator]

119. kick to combine

[emad]

120. Pastor who sacked his flock for voting Kerry is forced to quit

Pastor who sacked his flock for voting Kerry is forced to quit
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles
12 May 2005


The pastor of a Baptist church in North Carolina who used his pulpit to urge the faithful to support President George Bush has resigned after nine members of his congregation accused him of throwing them out over their political beliefs.

The controversy over Chan Chandler, the church's 33-year-old preacher who once described John Kerry as a "non-Christian" who "kills babies", has ignited a national debate over the growing politicisation of America's religious institutions - itself a symptom of the ever more poisonous divide between Republicans and Democrats.

The Rev Chandler's resignation on Tuesday evening came as a surprise to his supporters in the tiny town of East Waynesville, because he had previously sought to deny that he had tried to throw out anyone. However, an audio tape of one of his sermons has him clearly telling his congregation that anyone who planned to vote for Senator Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, needed to "repent or resign".

The nine aggrieved congregants all said they were explicitly told their presence was no longer welcome. One of them, Edith Nichols, said she and her husband had been warned: "Those that did not support Bush needed to leave, that they were sinners that believed in abortion and all the wrong things."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=637661

[Imagine My Surprise]

121. How can this piece of shit church keep it's tax exempt...

status? Hellooooooooooooooooooooo?! I thought that if blatant politicizing from the public was proved, this = no tax exempt status. I hope someone is working on this!

[RoyGBiv]

123. His resignation ...

That's probably why he resigned. I doubt it was a personal decision. It was probably suggested to him by some larger national organization, which will claim in some veiled language he wasn't speaking on behalf of the church itself, merely expressing a personal opinion.

It's a fine distinction, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's what will likely be claimed *if* an effort to remove tax-exempt status comes to fruition.

[Imagine My Surprise]

125. You are probably...

correct about that. Something sure "changed his tune" (as my grandmother would've said!) and it was probably something a little more tangible than The Good Lard. The church was probably headed towards tax exempt revocation and the little dickweek jesus boy's only option was to leave. Thanks for offering that.

[Wickerman]

122. A good quote from the tail of the article

"It's not up to us to decide who's in and who's out politically," Mr Fado said. "As soon as you say that, you're not a true Christian. That's self-righteousness."

[indepat]

124. Chandler is but the epitome of the cancer that has spread throughout

evangelical Christendom where partisan politics is spewed from the pulpit by those acting as shills for whatever action or policy the political party of choice espouses.

[Ernesto]

126. This clown should become the national poster-boy

for all to see. I hope Letterman & arnold schmoozer Leno do some national TV jokes about him before he goes down the memory hole.

[orleans]

135. good. he quit. so now the church needs to lose it's 501 tax

exemption status.

[lonestarnot]

136. Quit period or just this church?