(Womens, Jewish, black and Muslim) Groups Unveil Anti-Schwarzenegger Ads

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=511&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20031004/ap_on_el_gu/davis_recall

<snip>"There is a chance that a man who admires Adolf Hitler could be the next governor of California," said Scott Svonkin, Southern California chairman of the B'nai B'rith Center for Public Policy.

Jona Goldrich, who said he escaped from the Nazis at age 14, said an apology in this case wouldn't be adequate.

"There is no room for apology, to praise someone who killed 6 1/2 million Jews," said Goldrich, 76.

Amber Bowden, 19, said in San Bernardino that she voted for Schwarzenegger by absentee ballot but wishes she could take her vote back in light of the allegations. That's impossible, said San Bernardino County Registrar Scott Konopasek.

"It lowers my esteem of him," said Bowden, who was voting in her first election. "It might affect his ability to lead the state."

more

[IndianaGreen]

1. Which version of the "Hitler quote" are they taking exception to?

The same producer that had the alleged quote in an unpublished manuscript showed the media another version of the same alleged quote. There is no substance to any of the "Hitler quote" charges. One can see a similar tactic being used by prosecutors who, in order to bolster a weak case, would bring another inmate to the witness stand to testify that they heard the defendant confess to whatever crime he was being charged with. Get real!

Nazis don't donate money to Jewish causes!

[KharmaTrain]

2. Don't Overplay It

My wife talked to her aunt in Orange County tonight (her hubby: Country Club Repugnican)...and both are "Arnold'd out"...on both sides of this circus. First, she said was having the local GOOP ram him down their throats as being legitimate despite his stands on abortion and other social issues (she said most are closet social liberals anyway) just as long as they both cut their taxes and get their special services restored (one part the local GOOP is promising the locals to come out for Arnie).

Then, she bitched about the anti-Arnie sleeze that's now out. She expected this stuff to come out (blamed Davis) and now is getting tired of seeing/hearing that. She went on to say that the other day she was thinking of just staying home and not voting (she hates Davis so a "No" vote is out of the question), but with the attacks on Arnie, she's getting what I call "voter Stockholm syndrome" and may just vote for the galoot.

Hubby is a stone wall...he makes Dornan look like Alan Colmes. At first both were sceptical of Arnold, but the messier this stuff gets the more emboldened the GOOP base in So. Cal. is getting.

I sure hope this is offset and thensome by others who see through this partisan usurption...but then if the fine folks of California deem the Gropinator to be worthy of the highest office in their state...so be it. I think he'd make a great poster child of how inept and morally bankrupt this regime is next year.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Hitler quote is debunked by the man that leaked it, Pumping Iron producer

SUPPORT ON NAZI CHARGE

Schwarzenegger did get something of a boost Friday in his denial of ever having praised Hitler when George Butler, who produced “Pumping Iron,” said he may have misquoted the actor.

<snip>

However, Butler contacted The New York Times, which ran a story about the book proposal, on Friday morning, saying he had found another transcript of the interview, with different wording.

That one has Schwarzenegger saying: “I admire him (Hitler) for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn’t admire him for what he did with it. It’s very hard to say who I admire, who are my heroes.”

Butler said that his transcribers had difficulty rendering Schwarzenegger’s remarks because of his accent and that the only way to resolve the discrepancy was to listen to the tapes, which are in Schwarzenegger’s possession.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/945950.asp?0cv=CB10

[thebigidea]

4. you have to admit, this IS a tad suspicious

especially considering that Schwarzenegger bought all the "incriminating" outtakes and stuff from Pumping Iron from this guy...

[IndianaGreen]

5. Mere suspicion is not evidence!

What we have here is a witness that has two versions of the same quote, and the one that he did not peddle to the media is the one that is exculpatory to Arnold. Why is that?

[thebigidea]

6. edit

didn't read the article.

Did now.

GEEZ:

" The Times also quoted Butler as saying he saw Schwarzenegger play Nazi marching songs on his record player and even click his heels and pretend to be an officer of the Schutzstaffel, the Nazi Party paramilitary unit known as the SS.
Butler said that in the 1970s he considered Schwarzenegger to be a “flagrant, outspoken admirer of Hitler.”

uh... err... I?

[IndianaGreen]

8. Butler would make a great impeachable witness in court

so much so, that in real life he would never be called to the stand because his testimony would be shot full of holes under cross.

That's some witnesses you got there, counselor!

[thebigidea]

9. so then...

why are you defending his "newly discovered alternate transcript"?

edit - geez, you're not "defending" it - I've just been awake too long. Apparently we're both arguing that Butler is unreliable. I'm taking this as my cue to go to bed!

[IndianaGreen]

11. Butler impeached himself by withholding the second transcript

and it brings into question his motives, as well as his reliability as a witness and the veracity of both transcripts, which are part of a manuscript that Butler wrote.

[KharmaTrain]

7. The Timing Is The Problem

With all of Ahnold's revelations, many are decades old, and thus there has to be a bit of reality injected here, and I think you'd agree.

We have to apply the same litmus on Ahnold's past as we did on Clinton and others and that being the "youthful indiscretion" window. This Nazi stuff was being peddled for quite a while, and you saw a tinge of it with the early blast about his father's Nazi past.

Tony Snow...one of the few on Faux I actually like...mentioned the "context" of the law suit involving these interviews and after putting it in my "Faux Filter" it seems like this is being played way higher than it actually merits. And that's the problem...overplaying at this stage will help Ahnold, not hurt him.

[IndianaGreen]

10. I was among the early signers to MoveOn

precisely because of this issue, the efforts to bring down President Clinton on the basis of uncorroborated and questionable allegations made by witnesses about events that took place many years before.

I will not hesitate to bring up how many of us, myself included, looked the other way about allegations involving Clinton's behaviour. The only time that this became significant, was when Clinton lied under oath. We cannot have the Chief Executive of the nation, or even a CEO, lie under oath. Was this lie enough reason to impeach Clinton? I didn't think so then, and I don't think so now. Was this lie enough to impose sanctions on Clinton, as the court did? Absolutely!

I have to use the same standard on Arnold that I used on Clinton!

[KharmaTrain]

13. Double Standards Are Our Salvation

What Ahnold's creating is another "hammer" of Repugnican and Right Wing hypocrisy that I hope isn't missed on people and played properly next year. The GOOP has compromised so many standards in rolling over for Ahnold that we can't miss the opportunity to note each and every one for use next year. This especially means those outside California who stuck their noses in.

The Clinton witch hunt was a travesty and crossed that important line of where a person's public and private lives are...and how much we need to know them. What Clinton did on his own time (now we could use the Dubya 24/7 standard...24 hours a week, 7 months a year) was his business and his past and libido had no bearing on the job he was elected for. I differ in the fact that his "lie" in the sense of perjury was coerced and inmaterial in a case that was later ruled frivolous (but that's another discussion).

The difference here is Ahnold is doing a "bring it on" routine. At that San Diego rally, the crowd all but mobbed the galoot for admitting he was a groper and adulterer. That just went beyond the pale for me. This point can't be forgotten and has to be amplified...and maybe Ahnold winning could be a catalyst for that.

[IndianaGreen]

15. I don't want Arnold to win, I want Bustamante to win

and Bustamante has been driven off the front page by the Davis's sleaze machine in a desperate attempt to save his hide, which is already in rigor mortis.

[KharmaTrain]

17. I Hope It Wasn't Davis Sleeze...But

You could be very right.

Bustamante has run, from what I've seen, read and heard, a very poor campaign. He started out with ideas and seemed to show he could do the job, then he faded.

Some of this I blame on Arianna...who did more to help Ahnold and hurt Bustamante. He was almost invisible in that debate and from what I've heard he isn't doing much Radio or TV and can't attract the national media even with the likes of Clinton, Gore and the presidential hopefuls around. I know Davis is getting the major pump here, but Bustamante is all but invisible. What got me was the mention a couple days ago of him being considered for a House seat...like the game was already up.

Fortunately I sit in the wonderful Midwest, but if I had the vote, I'd just cast No to the recall and pass on the second part. On principle I loathe the concept of this recall and feel that voting in the second part vindicates it's use as a political weapon.

[tlb]

12. The attacks on Arnold are GAINING him support.

In the other thread "Groups Unveil Anti-Schwarzenegger Ads" I post the first polls results showing the effect of the last minute attacks on Arnold.

It wasn't easy but the cream of California's party strategists have managed to take a crude muscleman and transform him into a sympathetic victim, unfairly put upon in a series of desperate and sleazy political attacks.

I wonder how many points Arnold will gain from this new series.


edited for typos

[IndianaGreen]

14. We wouldn't be in this mess had Davis dropped out

and endorsed Bustamante. This would have neutralized the first question on the recall, and we would be talking today about Cruz's "Tough Love for California," a concrete proposal to solve the state's financial crisis, versus Arnold's empty sloganeering.

As it is, we have the Democratic establishment resorting to desperate sleaze tactics that have drowned the message that Bustamante has been trying to get out. These people are willing to risk it all in order to save Davis's ass.

[thebigidea]

16. I dunno about that

I think the RW talking heads would've pointed out that resigning was an admission of Davis' "failed policies" and Bustamante was a proponent of those same "failed policies" - and I don't see an alternate universe where "Tough Love for California" would've trumped Arnold's pathetic, bland, nonsensical catchphrases.

Its absolutely sickening that its even gotten this far.

[TahitiNut]

18. dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=148253