Conservatives, Liberals Align Against Patriot Act

[Robbien]

Conservative groups have found common ground with the liberal American Civil Liberties Union in their opposition to the USA Patriot Act and pledge to wage a high-profile fight against it, claiming even its renewal is shrouded in secrecy.

Former Rep. Bob Barr, who led conservative efforts to impeach President Clinton, is leading a group called "Patriots to Restore Checks and Balances" that is focused exclusively on opposing the renewal of the Patriot Act.

The effort also has the enthusiastic support of three of the most influential conservatives in Washington, Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform, David Keene of the American Conservative Union and Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum.

http://www.civilrights.org/issues/enforcement/details.cfm?id=32285

[coloradodem2005]

1. Wow!

I never thought we could agree with these people on anything. Bush has managed to accomplish something. He is a uniter. He is uniting conservatives and liberals against him. (at least on one issue)

[ElectroPrincess]

2. That's Great News!

[Richard Steele]

3. WOW, Conservatives opposed to SHREDDING the constitution!

Like a ray of sunshine, innit? Good news indeed! :patriot:

[ixion]

4. Good. Any 'real' Freedom-loving American should

damn fascists. :grr:

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Patriot Act = Closing the barn door

The 9/11 guys won, they got what they wanted, they did it using methods that these SOBs "never dreamed of." If it happens again, it will be something else they "never dreamed of", making this whole exercise a waste of time and resources.

[truthisfreedom]

6. nothing embarrasses fascists more than their "core constituents" pointing

out that they're fascists. fact is, bushco is masquerading as conservatives, and the conservatives are finally fighting back.

[denverbill]

7. The freepers are pretty amusing on this one.

6 years ago you would've been hard-pressed to find ANYONE on that site that would support a 'patriot act' like bill. They HATED big government with a passion. They were all conspiracists, hated the ATF as much as McVeigh did, talked of the horrors of Waco and Ruby Ridge, etc.

But now, because their boy is in power, if he says it's ok, it's ok with them. They know how to take their orders.

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=103;results=1

[bluestateguy]

8. This is how I get my conservative students to think about the Patriot Act

I just ask them if they would want a President John Kerry or Hillary Clinton to have these kinds of powers: all of a sudden the NRA is declared a "terrorist organization" and the FBI has installed wiretaps on the Christian Coalition's office telephones and computers.

That makes them pause to think.

[denverbill]

13. Funny thing is, things they support really DO help terrorists.

Check out this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422769/posts

This thread is about an attempt to ban .50 caliber sniper rifles. Now those rifles have the capacity to be a real handy tool for terrorists. They can easily pierce things like railcars carrying poisonous gas, oil storage tanks, aircraft engines, etc, but freepers are against any attempt to control access to those things.

[puddycat]

17. the 9/11 perps did it with only box-cutters. why blame guns?

To each and every liberal who is still against guns I would say to you: you have seen what the enemy is and is capable of. we are in grave danger from the fascist right in this country. do you really want to be without any means of defense if this nation descends into civil war again?

[Pachamama]

21. I've never really understood why the Left/Liberals are seen as "anti-gun"

I am not against the second amendment, never was and certainly not now that I see what fascism looks like...

I used to shoot skeet and am a pretty good shot...used to go ocean cruising too and you need weapons to be your own police on the open seas....they are in storage now and you know what - I'm glad they are unregistered in the modern "databases" since Shrub took power...I'm also feeling more than ever the need for protecting the 2nd Amendment (as well as the rest of the Constitution!)

[denverbill]

32. You can never arm yourself well enough to fight the government.

Never.

Even if you could buy Stinger missiles and tanks, which it's highly doubtful most of us could afford were they available, there is no way in hell you could do more than a pinprick of damage against any government that was out to get you.

But you think that that pinprick of damage you might do with a .50 cal sniper rifle is worth giving a terrorist a weapon he could use to destroy a plane full of people, or cause a Bhopoal like chemical disaster or disrupt the US economy by destroying a refinery? Or give some nut the capacity to sit a mile away and start shooting people in a baseball stadium or schoolyard or assassinate another Democratic Presidential candidate?

The potential for misuse by a terrorist or nut far outweighs any possible benefit you could gain by owning one.

[Goldmund]

19. But look at this thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422746/posts

There's an admirable (in current conditions at least) amount of anti-PATRIOT act dissent.

[bluestateguy]

9. This is the only way the Patriot Act will be defeated

This White House and Congress will not pay much attention to us or Moveon.org, but they will take notice if the NRA,the ACU and the Eagle Forum have a beef with the Patriot Act.

[LightningFlash]

10. Get them all opposed now to the DSM....

To the revelations of absolute lies and manipulation on Downing Street!

http://afterdowningstreet.org

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[faithnotgreed]

11. this is basically why sensenbrenner shut down democratic hearings on pa

because they need to keep it shrouded in secrecy or else people wont tolerate a lot of what they are pushing
just like everything else....

[UCLA Dem]

12. Its about damn time!!

[Quakerfriend]

14. I never thought I'd see the day that Bob Barr

would do something decent!

[americanstranger]

15. I personally don't like Barr, but

he's long been a crusader for the more 'traditional' conservative values - he's always been a big advocate of personal privacy. He was way out in front of the internet privacy issue, railing against 'Carnivore' back in the mid-nineties.

I'll never forgive him for being a house Manager against Clinton, but i gotta give credit where it's due.

-as

[bunkerbuster1]

35. Barr's been consistent on this

He's had public disagreements with Bush policies going back years, now.

I don't care for the man on other issues at all, but he is one conservative I've found who can be trusted on the PATRIOT act and other civil rights issues.

[yodermon]

16. i don't trust Grover Norquist.

I thought he was firmly in the neocon camp? Or is he just in the drown-the-government-in-the-bathtub camp?

[damntexdem]

18. Time to reframe: it's the Police State Act.

Now be nice and share the covers with our strange bedfellows.

(Come to think of it, the idea of Phyllis Schlafly as a bedfellow is a bit of a turn off.)

[Sgent]

20. Norquest

is a libertarian federalist mostly. He has come out against this administration a lot (healthcare and ed expansion).

[Initech]

22. That's good. Hopefull people are starting to wake up and realize that

The patriot act does more harm to America than good?

[magellan]

23. It's about time true Conservatives came out of hiding

At least between Liberals and Conservatives there's a middle ground to be found. There is NO middle ground with Neocons -- it's their way or the highway. Hopefully more Republicans will figure out the mistake they've made before too long. America is DYING.

[Melodybe]

24. to bad they're conservatives that have no power.

[Sgent]

25. Not when the dems vote with 'em

There's still enough conservatives/moderates in congress that we should be able to pry some votes away. We can't take over (they'd never go for that), but we can hopefully slow down or stop the worst of it.

[magellan]

28. I'm not sure they can all be classified as real moderates

Some of the Dems who vote with the Republicans are actually Neolibs, and they're just as dangerous as the Neocons...for different reasons. I don't know who among the Dems are Neolib; I haven't looked into it that closely yet. But if they're free-marketeer/corporatist, don't trust them. Like the Neocons their first allegiance is to the Neolib policy, not to the party whose coattails they're riding.

[magellan]

26. Well, there are certainly only a few traditional Repubs in Congress

Did anyone catch the after-hours speech Ron Paul (TX) made today on C-SPAN? It appeared the House was empty apart from Paul, John Duncan (TN) and somebody else whose name I didn't catch; all Republicans. Paul was giving one of his barn burner speeches about the dangers of Empire. Duncan then spoke about the need to stop storming about like we're the world's police and how this didn't mean he advocated isolationism; making and keeping friends was just more sensible than the aggressive/offensive policies of Bush**.

One of them mentioned how the Dept of Defense used to be called the War Dept, and that we changed it for a reason: the US military should be used solely for defense. Clearly this was in contrast to what they believe we're doing in Iraq, which neither agrees with.

And I'm not sure but it might have been Duncan who stated the irony in how Democrats are the ones now fighting for what are typical core Republican values: fiscal responsibility; smaller government; accountability, etc. Or maybe that was someone on another channel....

I was mightily impressed by these fellows and their obvious concern for our nation and its people. It gave me hope. Too bad there aren't more of them in Congress. True Republicans (and Libertarians like Paul) I've never had a problem with, even though my views are more liberal.

Maybe there are a lot more like them on the ground. Maybe many Republicans are seeing what we are: we have one common enemy, and they're squatting in the WH.

[dad]

27. . 2 bad some Dems still aren't on board.

now someone, please go tell John Edwards and John Kerry that the patriot act was a bad thing.

[converted_democrat]

29. This is good news! Hopefully we'll stop this.

[speedingbullet]

30. Patriot(?) Act

I'm still pissed off about this. The Bush administration cynically manipulated the 9-11 hysteria to pass this piece of shit, even though many in Congress did not even read it. I'm pissed at them, too. Our State's US Attorney was on the tour promoting support for the Act. He said the bottom line was that people need to trust their government officials. I wish I could have reminded him that the Bill of Rights was written because people didn't trust government, or rather they trusted that the government will try to screw them

[newyawker99]

33. Hi speedingbullet!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[supernova]

31. Wow! Finally a use for Bob Barr.

:patriot:

The PA needed to be shredded before it ever saw the light of day.

[DrZeeLit]

34. Whoa... that's one unholy trinity...I never thought I'd see the day...oops

Hold on... hold on... PIGS ARE FLYING!

Honestly, if they stop the P.A..... I'm all for it.
But I still don't like Phyllis Every-Women-But-Me-Should-Stay-Home Schlafly.

Politics makes strange bedfellows...once again.

[consuming]

36. This sucks