Gentically Modified crop 'ruins fields for 15 years'

[IChing]

GM crops contaminate the countryside for up to 15 years after they have been harvested, startling new government research shows.

The findings cast a cloud over the prospects of growing the modified crops in Britain, suggesting that farmers who try them out for one season will find fields blighted for a decade and a half.

The study, published by the Royal Society, examined five sites across England and Scotland where modified oilseed rape has been cultivated, and found significant amounts of GM plants growing even after the sites had been returned to ordinary crops. It concludes that the research reveals "a potentially serious problem associated with the temporal persistence of rape seeds in soil."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/article318238.ece

[mom cat]

1. More blowback from messing with Mother Nature...nominated

[Deja Q]

2. Gee, GM isn't the miracle solution we all hoped for then?

More farmlands sold in the housing boom (greed). Our population still growing, thanks to fools who'd rather freely fuck than think, the finks.... sigh.

Drill it up, cut it down, pollute it with chemicals. EVERYONE ends up dead in the end. Or at least the living would eventually envy the dead.

Humankind made money. And it's human greed that has led us to the moldy cesspool we're in today.

[IChing]

3. In the county above me, the use of GM passed by referendum last fall

We can have up to 3 growing seasons with certain vegetables on soil the color of
black gold.
Why was the GM issue passed? It came from lobbyist for the big donors of the industry. $5 million for ads for the advocates and $.5 for the opponents.

[CountAllVotes]

4. just wait and see what happens to the people eating this crap!

And this "crap" is everywhere too! Seen those HUGE Russet potatoes they are selling these days? GM'd for sure!

So much food in the chain is GM'd in the USA that it is extremely expensive to avoid eating it. It is in everything you can think of almost.

And as for the people consuming this, many of them are the poor as the shops that sell this crap food really cheap tends to be the place where many must shop.

Ever consider the idea that these GM'd foods are part of the reason we are seeing so many HUGE obese people? Many this might have something to do with it.

Here is a great link all about GM'd food from Ireland (where GM'd food is NOT allowed!): http://www.gmfreeireland.org/

:kick:

[kestrel91316]

7. I refuse to buy those mutant Russets. I buy the little ones

in the 5 or 10 lb bag. Cheaper by far. Who needs a 2 lb potato? We are way too fat as it is.

[MagickMuffin]

17. My experiences with Frankenfoods

We do not know what we are consuming. This is a fact, we have no way of knowing because the food industry has blocked legislation on labeling their products. They have actually said that putting any information concerning GM foods (Frankenfoods), that "it would be like putting the skull and bones on it, people wouldn't buy it because they would consider it poison..."

There is also the sneaky way of labeling GM foods (Frankenfoods) as organic. The pesticide is already in the seed stock, so therefore they won't need to use the traditional pesticides, therefore they can claim that it is organic.

I am pretty sure this happened to me. I have become allergic to certain types of food that I have never been allergic to in the past. I discovered this while eating Kashi cereal. My legs broke out in red patches from my knees down, they became swollen and it hurt to walk. It took me a while to figure out that it was the Kashi cereal, but I finally did and stopped buying it. It says on the package that it is an organic cereal, but I do not believe it. I believe it is a Frankenfood.

Now I have to monitor what I eat, which is hard to do. I now break out after eating peanuts, corn, and some soy products.


Wha' da ya get when you cross a fish with a tomato?
Something that smells pretty fishy...

Good articles from National Geographic. Please keep yourselves informed.


http://google.nationalgeographic.com/search?q=genetically+modified+foods&btnG=Search&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&site=default_collection&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend

[progressoid]

22. Who are "the people" eating this crap?

That would be all of us. It isn't just poor people. I dare say you would have a hard time finding someone in the US that hasn't eaten GM foods. They're everywhere.

The genie is out of the bottle.

[mzmolly]

23. OMG

I buy organic but bought some big baking potatoes last week. :scared:

[Cha]

5. I posted this in

another forum but I think it's important enough to repost in LBN.

"Good Luck to all these
farmers who DO NOT want their crops "contaminated" by genitically modified organisms.

I've known Organic Farmers for 20 years who are fighting this Scourge.

And I know there are DUers who think it's harmless but I say it's very harmful and I don't want my crops to tainted with mansanto seeds."

[cliss]

6. Well, what did they expect?

Just imagine eating a nice steaming bowl of GM rice. That rice has the DNA of spiders and marigolds. NO THANKS.

Someone called it "Franken-food".

[Judi Lynn]

8. Spiders! Oh, jeez.

I thought I'd heard something as vile as that, but I've been unconsciously blocking it out. Oh, yuck.

I'd sure like to see the comments AGAIN from some of the obnoxious, pompous pro-Frankenfood posters who always need to get their opinions noted whenever the subject arises.

[fed-up]

12. Its the rice genetically engineered with human genes that you have to

worry about. :)

It is impossible to keep rice grains from being spread by animals.

California was able to temporarily stop the rice/human genes trial, but they just ran to North Carolina to try it.

Frankenrice Spliced with Pharmaceutical Drug Stirs Up Controversy in North Carolina
http://organicconsumers.org/ge/FrankenRice070805.cfm

Our county in Northern CA tried to pass an initiative to prohibit the raising and growing of genetically engineered crops, but our core group of 7 were political neophytes and got trampled by the Farm Bureau. Still 40% was a respectable showing considering most people had no clue about GE crops.

This fall Sonoma County will have a measure on the ballot that would impose a 10-year moratorium on the use of genetically altered organisms in crops, animal feed and plants.

Monsanto's Allies Will Spend a Million Dollars to Stop GMO Ban in Sonoma County California
http://organicconsumers.org/monsanto/sonoma100505.cfm

[Piscis Austrinus]

11. I think that was Morgan Spurlock

in "Super Size Me." I could be wrong, though, or he might have been quoting someone.

Nevertheless... ugh. I don't like spiders in any form. What kind of twisted individual would carve up genetic material like that? Are these the "brilliant" minds of our time? No wonder we're in the fix we're in.

At any rate....after seeing Spurlock's McMovie, I didn't eat there for six months. When I finally did, I was doing a gastrointestinal Larry King - on the crapper every hour, on the hour, for the hour. I don't think I'll ever eat there again after that experience.


PsA

[kestrel91316]

9. Why do the producers of GM crops hate religion?

I mean, when they produce their crops with the hidden genes of animal species and then pawn them off on unsuspecting consumers, some of whom may be Seventh-Day Adventists, or Hindu, or Jain, or Jewish (no pork or shellfish genes), it shows a complete lack of respect for those people's religious beliefs.

Oh, nevermind. They're not Protestant Fundamentalists. They don't matter.

[MagickMuffin]

18. Why do they hate God?

After all they do not like the way God has made "his" creation. They have turned the US currency into their God. Why do you think it says "In God We Trust", because that is the true hero to these people. Profit over Everything else that would get in the way of Profit.

We don't care for our mountains, if there is coal in them there mountains. So, hell let's blast their tops off. Who cares about the people living in the communities, who can't drink their water, who have a hard time breathing. If it eats into our Profits then we will ignore anyone who complains. We will go have ourselves a visit to the congressional Representative from the region.

We don't like the food "he" put here for us to eat. So, hell let's cross a fish with a tomato. Or let's splice some viruses into the food chain, then we could make a profit when people get sick from eating our food.
And we can be in control of all the seed stock, so that that will be the only place to buy your stock.

Then we have the farming industry cloning animals. So, hell let's see we can create our own animals by cloning. Let's get the FDA to approve it for consumption.

The list goes on and on.

So, Why do the hate God? Why do they think "he" did such a lousy job with "his" design? Why do they hate God's Intelligent Design???

[Nihil]

20. So true

You'd think that the fundies would be ripping Monsanto & co to shreds
for daring to "improve God's handiwork". Hubris.

If you get cornered by some "Intelligent Design" preacher, just use
this to deflect him (or her). Don't go down their planned route of
attack but simply point out that the area of Frankenfoods is probably
the most important place that the IDers could help the world.

Still, if the IDer is a typical RW Chri$tian then they'll find a way
to worm out of it and defend their real god - Mammon.

[whatever4]

10. Oh, did they say "temporal persistence"

So, I'm gathering that the long and short of this is that long after the modified seeds are gone, other stuff planted in the soil continues to manifest the same types of mutations? Great.

So...we'll be more drought resistant now. Maybe more pest resistant too.

Know my latest sick joke? The many pollutants, the pesticides and the heavy metals we're all taking in now...it's all vitamins and minerals for the aliens...that want to eat us. We're being fortified. Like wonder bread? haha

[B3Nut]

21. To serve man...

....it's a cookbook! :yoiks:

:D

Todd in Beerbratistan

[whatever4]

25. One of the best short stories I ever read! :) nm

[Ediacara]

35. No, that's not *at all* what it's saying

The headline aside, the article is about weed problems. In other words, after GM oilseed rape (which IIRC is canola in the US) is harvested and removed from a field, there are still GM canola seeds in the soil. When something new is planted, there are still GM canola plants sprouting up. There isn't contamination in a normal sense, there isn't some mutation wave coming out of these fields. THE FIELDS ARE JUST FULL OF GM CANOLA SEEDS, and the GM canola comes back like weeds.

I'd really like to see this compared to another field with non-GM canola moving to some other crop. I would bet $5 that you get same persistant weed problem with non-GM as you do with GM.

[Nihil]

40. Also please see .39 in this thread

> There isn't contamination in a normal sense, there isn't some mutation
> wave coming out of these fields. THE FIELDS ARE JUST FULL OF GM CANOLA
> SEEDS, and the GM canola comes back like weeds.

I agree with your "mutation" comment but disagree with your shout that
having a "field full of GM canola seeds" where the "GM canola comes back
like weeds" is not a problem. It is a significant problem wherever
there is any control over the use of GM crops.

> I'd really like to see this compared to another field with non-GM
> canola moving to some other crop. I would bet $5 that you get same
> persistant weed problem with non-GM as you do with GM.

There are several differences here, one of the most pertinent being that
this crop is GM'd to be weedkiller resistant ... ummm ...?

[al bupp]

13. K'd & N'd /nt

[ecoalex]

14. The Facts om GMO are it's very Bad

How can you have corn that is ok for cattle and not people, and yet you eat the cattle?

[MountainLaurel]

15. Not OK for cattle

I remember reading, perhaps in "Fast Food Nation," about some farmers who did informal studies on GM corn. They'd put the GM feed in one bin and regular corn in another. Each and every time, the cows would ignore the GM corn and eat only the regular corn, even if it meant they didn't get enough to eat.

Animals know.

[IChing]

16. Remember what you eat is what you are

very ancient saying that goes through many wisdoms of culture

15 years, boy you know, I help grow things, to eat, to enjoy, but my time is getting short.


I hope my children and your children and their children can invest on this.

[gulfcoastliberal]

19. Monsanto is really slimy. They put family farmers out of business.

Their seeds are all GM modified so that they prevent farmers planting whatever kind of crop they sprout seeds from being used. So if you buy Monsantos "terminator" seeds, you have to buy them every year, since they modify their crops from producing viable seeds. Monsanto sucks.

http://www.ethicalinvesting.com/monsanto/terminator.shtml

[Bragi]

24. What evidence is there that GM food is unhealthy?

Just wondering. I've no expertise in this area, or passionate interest, but I can't say as I have ever heard of a study that indicates that GM food is in some way harmful to our health. Are there any such studies?

- B

[mcscajun]

26. Interesting article on that...

http://www.actionbioscience.org/biotech/pusztai.html

A lot of very detailed scientific reporting in there.

The concluding paragraph:
One has to agree with the piece in Science(1) that there are many opinions but scarce data on the potential health risks of GM food crops, even though these should have been tested for and eliminated before their introduction. Our present data base is woefully inadequate. Moreover, the scientific quality of what has been published is, in most instances not up to expected standards. If, as claimed, our future is dependent on the success of the promise of genetic modification delivering wholesome, plentiful, more nutritious and safe GM foods, the inescapable conclusion of this review is that the present crude method of genetic modification has so far not delivered these benefits and the promise of a superior second generation is still in the future. Although it is argued by some that small differences between GM and non-GM crops have little biological meaning, it is clear that most GM and parental line crops fall short of the definition of "substantial equivalence." In any case, this crude, poorly defined and unscientific concept outlived its possible previous usefulness and we need novel methods and concepts to probe into the compositional, nutritional/toxicological and metabolic differences between GM and conventional crops and into the safety of the genetic techniques used in developing GM crops if we want to put this technology on a proper scientific foundation and allay the fears of the general public. We need more science, not less.

[robcon]

28. No risk asserted yet from GM foods.

The potential for Frankenfoods is theoretical. Mistakes will be made. could a viable plant with harmful effects come from GM? I don't think it is likely, but it is possible.

[mcscajun]

29. There's a reason no risk has been absolutely asserted...yet.

There's been no true risk assessment yet, due to the ethical issue of human testing.

From the article:
However, to establish its safety for humans a more rigorous specific risk assessment will have to be carried out with several GM lines. This should include:

* An initial nutritional/toxicological testing on laboratory animals
* If no harmful effects are then detected, it should be followed by clinical, double-blind, placebo-type tests with human volunteers, keeping in mind that any possible harmful effects would be particularly serious with the young, old, and disabled.

The full article points out numerous, sometimes significant flaws in what tests have been done to date. A lack of rigorous scientific method as applied to the study of GM so far means there is far more we don't know than what we do.

Until we know a lot more, I will continue to look askance at GM food crops.

[Bridget Burke]

34. It's a long term study & we're all lab rats.

But a really scientific study needs a control group.

[arikara]

30. We need to be following the Precautionary Principle:

"When an activity raises threats of harm to human health or the environment, precautionary measures should be taken even if some cause and effect relationships are not fully established scientifically. In this context the proponent of an activity, rather than the public, should bear the burden of proof."

In other words, they shouldn't be allowed to foist this stuff on the environment and on us without absolute proof that it does not cause harm.

[PurgedVoter]

27. Current NO GM trespassing sign

I am still working on this Here is my third version.

Posted No Genetic Trespassing
The entry of genetically or otherwise biologically tagged, patented, modified or otherwise controlled plant or animal genetics is forbidden entry unless the land owner is informed and consents to the entry. Any violation will be considered criminal trespass. All damage to original or natural genomes on this property is property destruction. Individuals or companies responsible for not securing genetic property will be responsible for all loss of property, income and potential income caused by trespass of genetic information or material. The crops and plants present are part of a long term project adapting natural and usefully species to the local environment. Many of these crops have medicinal, nutritive, aesthetic and sentimental value that would be damaged or destroyed by the introduction of artificial species. Several of these plants are considered sacred and the adulteration by genetics not made by Nature or the Divine would violate my rights to worship as I choose.

[Rex]

31. MMMMMMMMM thems good eats!

Ruins the earth for 15 years...but A-OKAY for human consumption! Yum!

[WestMichRad]

32. This is an inflammatory headline

"Ruins fields for 15 years... "...fields blighted for a decade and a half...."

Well, duh! When you grow a crop to full maturity (of the seeds), you will have some of the seed drop and germinate the following year, and reminants of the crop will persist for years, potentially. This is hardly news - if you haven't seen the occasional corn plant in a bean field, either they're using more toxic herbicides and the last variety wasn't resistant, or you aren't very observant. Maintaining that the field is "ruined" is overblown hyperbole - it is damaging only with respect to the likelihood that if you try to grow the same crop again soon after, there will be a potential for genetic crossing of the renegade volunteers with the newly planted variety. So the farmer can't grow the same crop again for several years - hardly means the field is "ruined", as it can be used for other crops or purposes. It's not like the soil is made toxic. (They use herbicides and pesticides for that!!)

FYI, I'm very much against GMO techniques for modifying foods - but let's use REAL reasons for making the case against it, instead of sounding like fools by hyperinflating relatively minor points. Like the unknown potential of transferring a lot of non-target genetic information into a new species, when genetic scientists are finding that previously regarded "unimportant DNA sequences" may actually be important for reasons we just haven't figured out yet.

Organic farming rules, in my book. And buy locally produced food whenever possible!

Peace.

[Nihil]

33. RTFA

> The researchers found that nine years after a single modified crop,
> an average of two GM rape plants would grow in every square metre
> of an affected field. After 15 years, this came down to one plant
> per square metre - still enough to break the EC limits on permissible
> GM contamination.

"Ruined" is exactly the correct word to use in the headline.

It cannot be used to grow crops legally - i.e., uncontaminated - for
15 years (or a decade & a half if you prefer) and so, as far as being
able to produce saleable crops is concerned, is ruined.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. So, the real culprit is "Intellectual Property".

Fuck patents. Assuming the produce itself is healthy (a big if, I know), GM corps shouldn't be able to sue for "contamination".

[Ediacara]

37. It's not ruined

It's weedy. It's not contaminated in ANY conventional sense. It has weeds. Canola is used strictly for oil, and the oil comes from seeds. If you have a plant grow to maturity so that you can harvest seeds for oil, a lot of seeds will be in the soil.

It's not ruined, it's not contaminated, IT'S WEEDY.

[Nihil]

39. Tell that to the farmers prosecuted for "illegally growing" GM corn.

I understand what you are saying in your last three posts on this
thread but dismissing this problem as "weeds" is incorrect.

This wouldn't be a problem if there were no restrictions on the use
of GM plants. Happily there are restrictions but this means that
GM contamination becomes a problem to the farmer.

This wouldn't be a problem if there were no vultures, sorry, lawyers
from Monsanto et al ready to pounce on any perceived "abuse" of the
(totally ridiculous & immoral) "licencing" of the GM product.
Sadly, the vultures do exist and are very happy to sue.

This wouldn't be a problem if the "weeds" could be killed with a
simple weedkiller. Unfortunately, the major uses of genetic
modification in the oilseed/canola crops is to tolerate higher
concentrations of weedkiller ... not too good when the crop itself
becomes a "weed" ...

Fifteen years is a long time to lose the use of a field.

Of course, if you want to guarantee that people never move away from
your over-priced, insufficiently-tested "product" then it's a very
helpful side-effect that ties in the farmer for much longer than he
would have planned. If the farmer chooses to continue with this crop
then you are right, there is no "contamination" as he is 'choosing' to
become a monocrop producer (with associated risks & problems) instead
of rotating through a selection of crops (for financial security).

[Ediacara]

38. No shit, not just inflamitory but false

You hit the nail on the head with this. When you grow a plant to the point that you harvest the seeds for oil, you're going to have a huge amount of seeds come to maturity and fall on the ground. The fields aren't ruined or contaminated in a conventional sense, they just have a weed problem.

I agree that more oversight needs to be in place concerning modern GM foods, and that patents should not be allowed, and testing also need to be in place before introduction.

The thing is, I doubt most people understand that (almost) everything they eat is GM. The most basic (and still most common) form of GM is selective breeding. Almost nothing in the supermarket you eat is in the same form it was 10,000 years ago. Tomatoes were sweet berries, apples and pears didn't exist in a form anything like what we eat, cows could kill you. The list goes on and on....

GM foods aren't the boogie man that many make them out to be. There are certainly potential problems with GM, but so far nothing has become manifest (other than patented seeds, but that's more a problem with the companies and not the technology itself).

[Nihil]

41. Not false at all

Please also see .39 & .40 in this thread.

> The fields aren't ruined or contaminated in a conventional sense,
> they just have a weed problem.

That's like saying that Chernobyl "just" has a radiation problem ...
(Hey, hyperbole seems to be good for you so ... :hi: )

> The thing is, I doubt most people understand that (almost) everything
> they eat is GM. The most basic (and still most common) form of GM is
> selective breeding.

There is a world of difference between selective breeding and GM so
please don't go down that (GM industry-issued) rathole.

> cows could kill you.

Holy Shit! Toxic cows? Whatever next?

[Solon]

42. First off, let me say that my main objection to GM products...

As food or pets is a matter of control and regulation, not necessarily health. Health testing is important, and needs to be studied, but, to be honest, I don't even know what problem these plants are even supposed to solve. Before we had GM crops, we had a food surplus on this planet, it was just distribution that was the problem. Hell we still pay the agri-corps millions every year to NOT grow crops. As far as I can tell, the ONLY reason for anyone to create and market these products are to improve profitability. One aspect of this is in patenting species that reproduce without human control.

Yes we had "GM" in a manner of speaking in regards to crossbreeds, etc. However, I have yet to hear of one farmer suing his neighbor across the road because his hybrid migrated over there the following season. In fact, it is the very proficiency of these plants in MIGRATING and proliferating that makes them so attractive as agriculture products. The question is, if we wish to continue to spread the use of these new GM plants, what type of controls should we put on the corporations in the enforcement of their "intellectual property" that happens to reproduce on its own?

Who would be liable if you grow GM crops on your property unknowingly? Hell, why should you, as a farmer, have to call up the USPO, or hire a team of lawyers, just to grow crops that already "invaded" your land?