Details emerge about conversation between Rove, Christian leader

[highplainsdem]

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/politics/12877168.htm


Posted on Tue, Oct. 11, 2005

Details emerge about conversation between Rove, Christian leader

BY DAVE MONTGOMERY
Knight Ridder Newspapers


WASHINGTON - (KRT) - In a private conversation designed to garner support for the nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court, White House aide Karl Rove told a key conservative Christian leader that the Texas lawyer had taken positions that "would not be supportive of abortion."

The unusual contact between Rove and James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, a Colorado evangelical group staunchly opposed to abortion, came two days before President Bush announced Miers' nomination.

Dobson was one of the few fundamental Christian leaders to endorse Miers, whose lack of a public stand on abortion or other conservative legal issues has prompted widespread criticism among Bush's traditional supporters.

Dobson made the disclosure in a radio address taped Tuesday, following threats that the Senate Judiciary Committee might subpoena him and force him to describe his conversation with Rove.

<snip>


This was the first news story I saw about the taped radio address, but the unedited transcript's been online for nearly an hour, at http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_4150307,00.html (I posted about it in GD).

[ret5hd]

1. UNDER OATH...

subpoena him and put him under oath...nothing else counts!

[David Zephyr]

11. Yep. Karl Rove has opened himself up to subpoena by the Senate.

Rove and Dobson need to be questioned under oath about what they have communicated regarding Miers that the Senate has not been privy to.

[IntravenousDemilo]

14. Piggy will have to juggle his busy upcoming schedule to fit the Senate in.

His dance card is getting rather full, what with all the other people asking him pointed questions.

[Jackpine Radical]

22. But are Senate Repugs pissed & independent enough to call him in?

[Tigress DEM]

19. Hand on the Bible, JD. Swear to tell the truth the whole truth and not...

nothing but the truth, so help you GOD.

[laureloak]

2. Why are these MEN so damned concerned about abortion?

It's a woman's issue.

[gumby]

5. Well,

if you can "control" over half of the population, then you are more than half-way in your 'domination' plan.

[existentialist]

9. Well, if

they can't have one, why should a woman be able to?

[EC]

18. Men are free to have one

if they ever had the need...

[existentialist]

34. If

on the one hand I was merely being pointlessly sarcastic by my ludicrous question, then by your perfectly logical answer you have totally disarmed me, and made me look as absurd as my question.

If, on the other hand, I intended to posit a possible psychological connection to the fundamentalist males' insistence upon abortion being seen as the defining issue of our time--then perhaps you have missed my point.

[EC]

37. No, I got your point,

I was using the fundies reasoning on gay marriage, that the gay person is already free to marry, just like the straight person.

[Gregorian]

16. Three incredible posts.

So perfect and complete. Sometimes I feel like I might want to continue with life on this planet.

Thank you.

[Blaq Dem]

38. It's all about MONEY

For every baby born, then that's more money to be made. Think about it.

More people, means more energy (oil)?

Personally, I think they may be more concerned about the depleting "white race." If it were mostly black women having abortions, as they claim the stats show, then they would care less. But if it's upper middle class white girls, then that's a potential child open to brain-washing.

[Why Syzygy]

41. I think it's about keeping people

in an emotionally vulnerable state. Why worry about issues when you can keep your mind on someone else's sex/reproductive life.

Emotional distraction. While we are thieved and lied to.

[Fly by night]

66. Bingo. The Bushies (and their ilk) believe population growth ...

... is the only true economic engine for growth, showing no evolution in their thinking since Adam Smith.

[hippiechick]

80. It's a class thing, IMO.

... before Roe, wealthy girls who 'made a mistake' could head across the border for a long weekend and come back with nary a whimper.

Poorer girls (and women) didn't have access to clinical abortions.
Didn't have access to birth control.
Certainly didn't have nannies to take care of the kid once it arrived so they could 'get on with their lives'.

Thus begins the ruthless cycle:
The more often you're pregnant, the less likely you are to further your education.
The less education you have, the lower your career aspirations tend to be.
The more uneducated women with young children to support, the more low-wage domestic and service industry workers.
The more workers in a given sector, the lower the wages, the fewer the benefits and worker protections.

It's a way to keep the poor folk poor, and it's been going on in this country since the Industrial Age.

[stevebreeze]

39. same reason they didn't want women to vote. they are afraid their small

penises will show.

[WillParkinson]

43. Why are men so concerned about abortion....

It's a woman's issue?

Funny, I don't think that the woman got pregnant by herself.

I believe fully in the right to choose even if I don't agree with abortion.

However, I also think it's very strange that a man cannot have a say in whether a woman aborts or not but is still expected to pay if she does not.

You have no rights but you must still pay.

Very odd.

[Bridget Burke]

46. A man has a right to keep it zipped or keep it wrapped.

If he chooses unprotected sex, he'd better be damned sure that he knows the woman in question. He's risking more than an unplanned pregnancy.

You claim that you "don't agree" with abortion. But you seem to endorse compulsory abortion if the man doesn't want to pay child support.

Even more odd.

[WillParkinson]

47. Hold on there...

Compulsory abortion? I never said that.

I said that it should be a choice between the people involved. If it takes 2 to make the child then the two should both have a say in what happens.

And the man is the only one responsible for safe sex? A woman can't choose to say no?

[Megahurtz]

74. It should ONLY be THE WOMAN'S choice

because the woman's body carries the fetus, and potentially bears the child.

Sorry! But the plumbing rules it out.:shrug:

[Chovexani]

78. Thank you!

Jesus why is this so hard for some people to understand?!

When men can get pregnant they can have an equal say. That's not to say the potential father should have no say at all...however, my SO knows if I ever get pregnant I get the final word, as it is my body and my health at risk. He respects that and believes it's how it should be.

[WillParkinson]

79. So...

If you decide, on your own, to have the child why then should the man be expected to provide for the childs well being?

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I am actually trying to understand the logic here.

If the woman has the ultimate say then shouldn't she shoulder the responsibility for her choice?

[cassiepriam]

45. It is about CONTROL. It is always about power.

[Tight_rope]

77. I totally agree...."It's All About CONTROL"!...n/t

[yowzayowzayowza]

65. Itz also a very effective...

issue at herding portions of the electorate. Indeed, an issue that some are not in any particular hurry to relinquish.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

73. If Rove v. Wade is overturned, do you think they'll stop there?

A classmate from college is an M.D. who performs abortions in Phoenix. They had him on t.v. to argue against a fundie woman, and he started off by calling her a nutcase (he was never one to suffer fools). She then went about proving him right. At one point he said, "It's not just about abortion -- you also want to put and end to birth control!" Caught off guard, she agreed.

I once discussed the issue with a coworker who brought up the subject. I tried to deflect it ("I'd never have one"), but when he pressed I told him I'd talk with him, but that in one hour he would say that extra-marital sex is wrong, and that bearing a child God's punishment for engaging in it.

One hour later he expressed that point of view, and I replied, "See, we could have saved an hour..."

[anotherdrew]

70. here's why

their bible tells them that they should have god-like control over their wife. Only wives should be having sex. So since no man would ever want to abort his offspring, no wife should be so permited. If she'll die in childbirth, he can get another and it was gods will anyway. Unmarried women seeking abortion shouldn't have got pregnent in the first place, and would, in their 2000 year old dreams, be killed after giving birth as a lesson for other un-wed women.

These people are sick ape-brained monsters.

[SnowGoose]

71. To be fair...

I've seen quite a few pro-choicers (of which I am a proud member) seem to insist that *every* anti-choice person is doing this for some kind of control over women or weird social engineering kind of thing.

It pays to stop for a second and remember that a lot (if not most) of the "right to life" people really do think that a little fetus grows into a person, and at a certain stage even *looks* like a person, therefore it *is* a person. And aborting it is killing a human being.

I don't agree with them, because I think personhood includes other attributes such as consciousness that embryos don't have. We all have a right to our opinions, and that's mine.

But we're misleading ourselves if we think that all or even most of these anti-choice types have a hidden agenda. Their agenda isn't hidden at all - they're screaming it. They think abortion is the killing of a human being. A person.

Does it really matter if they're a man or woman? We're not Iraqi (for the most part) so should we not then protest against the killing of Iraqis by our government? After all, what business of ours is it? Or if we're men, should we not care about rape, or violence against women?

Crap, I left my asbestos suit at home, I think I'm going to get a little crispy here. Flame me if you must.

But don't kid yourself - these people think they're working against murder. That's why, man or woman, they have a right to be involved in the discussion of abortion. Given what they believe, I'd expect no less, just as I protest my government's killing overseas in the name of "freedom", because I think we're murdering people.

That's not to say that there aren't power-hungry asses who are willing to use those beliefs of others for their own purposes. There are. It's just that those don't represent the rank and file abortion opponent.

I hope I haven't offended anyone.

[Singular73]

Subjugation of Women

Nothing else.

[Singular73]

72. Subjugation of Women

Nothing else.

[Carolab]

3. Rove is probably lying to Dobson.

Put BOTH Dobson and Rove under oath and MAKE THEM TALK, damn it!

[VegasWolf]

4. When they are under OATH of PERJURY, then I will listen. nt

[KoKo]

6. Nah...Miers was a "Set Up" to "Go Down."

Why else would Dobson get on the airwaves and say this? He's taking a fall so the RW can get rid of Miers.

She's toast. The Infighting amongst them being so public is going to cause confusion on the Right, though. I guess Rove not being around caused them to be kind of clumsy with this. Chimp wanted Miers but the RW didn't so they hoke up Dobson in some kind of "agreement" that Miers will be anti-abortion, but then Dobson takes the fall because it was all a lie to get someone stricter than Miers.

In the meantime, Miers takes the "fall" like a good loyal Christian Woman falling down and kissing her love (Chimp) and the RW gets what it wanted all along.

Disgusting :-(

[Carolab]

7. Nah. Rove is using Dobson to try to convince fundies she's anti-Roe.

Without having to actually promise them anything.

Bush and BushCo WANT Miers. It's all about protecting themselves.

[rodeodance]

8. I do not think she is "toast"--nor do I think Jr will withdraw her name.

[existentialist]

10. Indeed,

He would have to admit a mistake to withdraw the nomination. And once he does that he's set a precedent. Why just imagine the mistakes people would be asking him to acknowledge.

[JawJaw]

12. To Save Chimp's Ass

maybe Miers will withdraw herself from the nomination to spend more time wth her stamp collection?

[feistydem]

21. I think she'll withdraw too -- but to play with her Barbies

and her Georgie doll.

[MGKrebs]

13. I might believe that if it didn't fit their pattern so perfectly.

They have been so consistent in hiring people that are spectacularly unqualified but loyal ( at least until facing jail time).

This is like Cheney redux. In charge of the search committee, but then voila! No one is better than I!

[grasswire]

15. and? and?

Surely Rove then added to Dobson: "....but she's promised us that she will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade."

Otherwise, nothing they've said makes sense.

This is a deceitful statement from Dobson.

[SillyGoose]

17. That transcript was very revealing. I notice he bashed democrats

throughout his entire comments while ignoring the opposition of Meirs' nomination by republicans. So typical....just couldn't resist demonizing those evil obstructionist democrats, could he?

Anyway, this paragraph jumped out at me. If Kar Rove told all this to Dobson, there's no way Bush didn't know it.

"What did Karl Rove say to me that I knew on Monday that I couldn't reveal? Well, it's what we all know now, that Harriet Miers is an Evangelical Christian, that she is from a very conservative church, which is almost universally pro-life, that she had taken on the American Bar Association on the issue of abortion and fought for a policy that would not be supportive of abortion, that she had been a member of the Texas Right to Life. In other words, there is a characterization of her that was given to me before the President had actually made this decision."
---------------------------------------------------------------------

While head of the Texas Bar, Miers led an unsuccessful effort to have the American Bar Association repeal its official position favoring legalized abortion rights and adopt a neutral stance on abortion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_miers

[Straight Shooter]

20. Radical cleric Dobson did not need Rove to tell him that.

Dobson was just puffing up his chest about how important he thinks he is by alluding to privileged information that he believes the rest of us don't have.

Bullsh!t. Everyone knew almost from the get-go the woman is pro-birth and anti-choice. There's no mystery to bush's motivations, none at all.

[truthpusher]

23. Dobson Says He Didn't Discuss Specifics On Miers (Dobson may testify)

http://www.nbc5.com/news/5083538/detail.html?rss=chi&psp=nationalnews

Dobson Says He Didn't Discuss Specifics On Miers
----------------
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Focus on the Family founder Dr. James Dobson said he discussed Harriet Miers with White House adviser Karl Rove two days before the president announced her Supreme Court nomination.

In the taping of his daily radio program to be aired Wednesday morning, Dobson said Rove told him that Miers "is from a very conservative church, which is almost universally pro-life."

But Dobson added, "We did not discuss Roe v. Wade in any context or any other pending issue that will be considered by the court."

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter has reiterated that he's looking into claims by Dobson that he had private assurances from the White House that Miers is opposed to abortion.

Specter said he or the committee's top Democrat, Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy, could call Dobson to testify.

(snip)

complete story: http://www.nbc5.com/news/5083538/detail.html?rss=chi&psp=nationalnews

[tk2kewl]

24. so that settles it then... Dobson wouldn't lie

:eyes:

[truthpusher]

25. Dobson: What Rove Said About Miers

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1116600,00.html?promoid=rss_top

Tuesday, Oct. 11, 2005
-----------------
Dobson: What Rove Said About Miers
-----------------
In his radio program, the Focus on the Family founder reveals what reassured him about the Supreme Court nominee
-----------------
By MIKE ALLEN
-----------------

(snip)

Facing increasing criticism, Dobson announced he would come clean on his Wednesday radio program. In a transcript of the show recorded Tuesday, he says Rove has given him permission to make public their conversation, which occurred two days before Bush's announcement. In brief: Rove assured him Miers was a strong Evangelical Christian—and that some other female candidates supported by the Right had withdrawn their names from consideration.

According to Dobson, Rove said the President "was looking for a certain kind of candidate, namely a woman." Rove added that Miers "was at the top of the short list of names under consideration," but that others had withdrawn from consideration. "Some of the other candidates who had been on that short list, and that many conservatives are now upset about, were highly qualified individuals that had been passed over," Dobson says. "What Karl told me is that some of those individuals took themselves off that list and they would not allow their names to be considered, because the process has become so vicious and so vitriolic and so bitter, that they didn't want to subject themselves or the members of their families to it."

(snip)

Dobson says on Wednesday's "Focus on the Family" broadcast the information from Rove that reassured him was "what we all know now: that Harriet Miers is an Evangelical Christian, that she is from a very conservative church, which is almost universally pro-life, that she had taken on the American Bar Association on the issue of abortion and fought for a policy that would not be supportive of abortion, that she had been a member of the Texas Right to Life." Even so, Dobson says, “Rove didn't tell me anything about the way Harriet Miers would vote on cases that may come before the Supreme Court. We did not discuss Roe v. Wade in any context or any other pending issue that will be considered by the court."

(snip)

complete story: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1116600,00.html?promoid=rss_top

[w13rd0]

26. Hey SpongeDob...

...we don't believe you.

[izzybeans]

27. hard to say who the likely liar is...I suppose the truth has taken

two twists on this one.

[Mike_The_Computer]

28. NONE of that rises to the level "things I probably shouldn't know."

Playing peekaboo with the truth is probably a lot like LYING, in Jesus' eyes. What a cockroach.

[Skip Intro]

29. "Roe v Wade? Nah, never came up." And these are the paragons of virtue??

[intheflow]

31. No one ever mentioned Valerie Plame by name.

Same warped logic here. x(

[Gman]

30. Why would they even have to bring up Roe v Wade

when they both knew exactly what they were talking about?

Dobson: So she's an evangelical "christian"?
Rove: Yup
Dobson: So that means she'll vote to overturn Roe v. Wade?
Rove: Duuuuh! No shit, Sherlock!

[kskiska]

32. So nobody else wanted the job

and Miers had no family to worry about.

I read previously that Priscilla Owens had withdrawn her name.

[Patsy Stone]

33. Then is this the Dems fault?

"What Karl told me is that some of those individuals took themselves off that list and they would not allow their names to be considered, because the process has become so vicious and so vitriolic and so bitter, that they didn't want to subject themselves or the members of their families to it."

Or just Clinton's as usual?

It seems no one wants to play their reindeer games and, so, in the words of Bill Maher, he picked "the lady down the hall".

Now that this is leaked, will all the NeoCons suddenly believe she's qualified as a brilliant constitutional mind?

[Why Syzygy]

42. HUH?

Is truth in the eye of the beholder?

..."she is from a very conservative church, which is almost universally pro-life, that she had taken on the American Bar Association on the issue of abortion and fought for a policy that would not be supportive of abortion, that she had been a member of the Texas Right to Life." ...

And then THIS ~

..."We did not discuss Roe v. Wade in any context or any other pending issue that will be considered by the court." ...

Hey, Dob. ABORTION = ROE v. WADE. Get it? How can people listen to this tripe.

[AUYellowDog]

35. recommended, this needs to be front page!

[delhurgo]

36. I believe this is the truth.

When Dobson did the infamous interview, that was before the info about her being anti-abortion and an evangelical christian was widely known. He was just being overly-cautious. It makes sense. He knows he may have to testify under oath and I doubt very much that he would lie knowing he might be called.

The part about judges withdrawing themselves could be spin though. I mean, I don't doubt that there are some like that but maybe not as many as Rove was trying to suggest. I think the part about the process being so "vicious" is also about some of these judges not thinking they could handle the questioning from the committee, especially coming after how well Roberts did. In short, they don't want to look like idiots in front of the whole country - even a shot at the Supreme Court isn't worth that.

[Why Syzygy]

40. THIS IS IT?????

James Dobson, founder of the non-profit group Focus on the Family, will tell listeners of his daily show that Bush aide Karl Rove "didn't tell me anything about the way Harriet Miers would vote on cases," including any attempt to reverse Roe v. Wade, the 1973 ruling that legalized abortion nationwide.

What Rove did tell Dobson in confidence, according to a transcript of the pre-recorded show that was released late Tuesday, was that other conservatives on President Bush's "short list" of potential nominees withdrew from contention "because the (confirmation) process has become so vicious."

Rove has released him from their confidentiality pact, Dobson says. His broadcast can be heard Wednesday on the Internet at www.family.org and will be on more than 3,000 radio stations across North America.

.snipped.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-11-miers-dobson_x.htm

I think I smell a rat. THAT'S THE CONFIDENTIAL "NEWS"?
Maybe some people just feel a need to pump themselves up.
Or maybe they lie.

[xchrom]

44. they're both liars. rove and dobson --

who could find their way around rove and dobson land?

conservatives in any stripe will do or say anything to suit their needs -- in this case in might actually land some one in hot water -- but what a tangled mess.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

48. Dobson: nothing to hide (dares senators to call him to testify)

Focus founder dares senators to bring him in. Dobson says Karl Rove didn't tell him how the Supreme Court pick would rule on Roe vs. Wade.
By Eric Gorski
Denver Post Staff Writer

Article Launched: 10/12/2005 01:00:00 AM

A tough-talking James Dobson, answering calls that he break his silence about a private conversation with White House political strategist Karl Rove, said in a radio broadcast airing today that he received no assurances on how Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers would rule on abortion rights

The influential founder of Colorado Springs-based Focus on the Family also dared U.S. senators who have threatened to call him before the Judiciary Committee to "just go do it. ... I have nothing to hide."

snip>

Although specific court cases were not addressed, Rove underscored Miers' anti-abortion credentials, according to Dobson. Rove described Miers as an evangelical Christian who came from a church that is "almost universally pro-life" and said she was a member of Texas Right to Life, among other things, Dobson said. Dobson said he also was told President Bush believes she will stand true to Bush's judicial philosophy, broadly stated as interpreting law rather than setting social policy from the bench.


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3107679

MKJ

[whatever4]

49. OH he's going down. He admitted they had, ON AIR haha nm

[DoYouEverWonder]

50. Liars don't care

He could swear on a stack of bibles and he still would never tell the truth.

[etherealtruth]

54. Like any good sociopath ...

he would be able to lie with out (even the most subtle) discomfort.

[trotsky]

60. He'd just be following in a long line of Christians

who think that it's perfectly acceptable to commit just about any sin as long as it helps promote the "gospel."

[WCGreen]

63. Well then there is that repent and get out of hell card......

[momster]

51. Take that Dare!

How do we persuade senators to call his bluff? I'm from a double-blue state but my senators are not on the committee.

[Algorem]

52. He shore don't hide nothin from his son.

[Zynx]

64. When I read that, I nearly vomitted.

For those of you who are not familiar, James Dobson, the good family man that he is, says in order to keep your son straight the father has to shower with his son and show his son his penis.

[superconnected]

67. ? wierd.

Poor kid.

[Dhalgren]

53. Screw this! Miers must be filibustered!

She is unqualified by any standards

She is a crony - a toady crony

She is an extremest (even if she isn't, she is being "sold" as one)

And we owe the incompetent Emperor nothing...nothing...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

55. Here's another doozy from the story....Dobson was told, before we knew.

He was told prior to the nomination!

When Rove talked to Dobson, Bush had not asked Miers to be the nominee. According to Dobson, Rove told him Bush wanted to nominate a woman. But according to Dobson, the landmark Supreme Court case that legalized abortion never came up.

MKJ

[hootinholler]

76. Sure, Rove was getting the ducks in a row and making sure there weren't...

Lurking embarrassments.

Progress For America registered JusticeMiers.com on the Thursday before the nomination announcement.

They registered JusticeRoberts.com more than a week before Sandra Day O'Connor's retirement was announced, nearly a month before Roberts' nomination was announced.

-Hoot

[MGKrebs]

56. Nothing to hide? What, no salami?

:evilgrin:

[zbdent]

61. If the righties are true to form, more like

cocktail weenie . . .

[David Briggs]

57. What was the information?

What is the information which Dobson said he knows and "probably shouldn't know" about the nominee?

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

58. SpongeDob to Arlen Specter: I TRIPLE-DOG-DARE YOU

Take the dare, Judiciary Comm...this guy is begging for discipline.

[Obamanaut]

59. Needs to be spanked until he cries real tears. nt

[Nimrod2005]

62. Save your energy folks

I am strongly suggesting she is going to be asked to drop out, even if we have the hearings.

[Pacifist Patriot]

68. Does anyone else think this statement as preposterous as I?

"interpreting law rather than setting social policy from the bench"

What a nonsense statement. It is absolutely meaningless. But boy howdy does it carry hefty political appeal to those who cannot think for themselves.

[Javaman]

moron dobson thinks he's calling a bluff, boy will he be surprised...

jackass.

[YOY]

69. If they are so concerned about abortion

Why don't they work towards a world where no woman wouldn't want to bring a child into it (but still had the right to do so if she did)?

[MaineDem]

75. Sounds like Sunday's West Wing episode

However, this is real and WW is, unfortunately, fiction.